The Boys Who Wore Butternut

Eleven states seceded from the Union in 1861. Each of those states honors it’s sons who fell during the war, but today is the anniversary of Gen. Johnson surrendering the last Confederate field force to Gen. Sherman and is recognized by four of them (Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Mississippi) as Confederate Memorial Day.

The causes of the War Between the States  are varied and complicated. Whether they be political, economical, ideological, or societal, they are as diverse as the states which comprised the fragile Union in 1861. Although there is no one overriding factor that can be called THE cause of the war, the average Johnny Reb knew what he was fighting for. He did not march to the sound of the guns because of Yankee export tariffs on Southern goods or to defend the institution of slavery. No, he marched to war for the same reason Americans have always done, and still do today; to defend his homeland. His state was that home, where his family was born and raised, where his mother, wife, or sweetheart waited with anxiety for his return. He recognized the sovereignty of his state and her borders and was willing to bleed for them. That very same sovereignty is an issue which just yesterday, 150 years later, was being argued before the United States Supreme Court. It was for that sovereign independence which he fought, for which he died. Modern revisionism can not, must not, belittle the nobility of his cause, the courage of his heart, or the totality of his sacrifice for his hearth and home.

More than 258,000 sons of the South never returned to that home for which they gave so much, more than a quarter of the total estimated wartime strength of the Confederacy. 94,000 died in battle, 164,000 more of disease. They gave their last full measure of devotion, and the cause for which they died is as valid and just today as it was 150 years ago.

 

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Cannon Fodder
Cannon Fodder

Any bets on that very sovereignty being trampled on by the Supremes? They will likely find a reason to side with the Fed in this case, even though the Fed is actually doing NOTHING.

And …… FOIST! :em07:

LC Akornzombie
LC Akornzombie

Amen.

emily_nelson
emily_nelson

Children in the North are not taught this. I did not know about this until I married a man from Alabama. When I was growing up in New York City in the 60’s and 70’s I wasn’t taught any American History.

single stack
single stack

The politicians may have started the war over slavery but the men and boys who did the fighting and dying didn’t own slaves and didn’t even consider it an issue. They fought because a vicious, brutal, and bloodthirsty tyrant invaded their homes. The War of Northern Aggression wasn’t a civil war, it was a war fought between two sovereign nations… Read more »

Igor, Imperial Booby
Igor, Imperial Booby

Please, Rotties, let’s not get into a Nort vs. South argument here. Again. It’s over, people, okay? Let’s instead focus on what Sir Crunchie is illustrating here – fighting for sovereignty. And the fact that this issue is on the line, Feds vs. State. Methinks if the Feds “win”, the Country loses. Another reason for opening the third and last… Read more »

LC MuscleDaddy
LC MuscleDaddy

single stack @ #:

I’ve made that very point innumerably over the years – a ‘Civil War’ is a war between two factions for control of a country.

The War of Northern Aggression was more akin to an abused spouse trying to leave, and the other-half (Lincoln) deciding “You’ll stay w/me or I’ll kill you.”

– MD

LC MuscleDaddy
LC MuscleDaddy

Igor, Imperial Booby @ #:

That’s actually the point being made here – those boys fought & died defending their homes, as a result/outcome of having said ‘We’re free to decide for our damn-selves’…

…and the Central Government saying ‘Like Hell, you are.’

Soon we get to see if We The People get another ‘Like Hell, you are.’ – response.

– MD

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

I for one am glad at the outcome of the Civil War, a reunited nation under one flag. That said, I really cannot take a side in this conflict, I understand and am well read on the reasons both sides went to war. The Northern States did take a heavy hand in dealing with the South, they sought to keep… Read more »

Mark12A
Mark12A

History is written by the victors. As a result of this war, the Federal government is the monstrosity it is today.

LC Gladiator
LC Gladiator

The South WILL rise again

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

Mark12A says: History is written by the victors. As a result of this war, the Federal government is the monstrosity it is today. Shelby Foote was a Mississippi boy….like I said in my earlier post, his books are required reading on the subject. These books are the first ones I’ve read that give a fair account of Jefferson Davis and… Read more »

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. says: It’s just that following generations lost the peace through punitive reconstruction and a lurch away from the republic of independent states that was established by our Constitution and towards an all powerful monolithic central government that views the states as the functionaries of it’s policies, rather than as the co-equal members of a… Read more »

Mark12A
Mark12A

Absent the war, technology would have made slaves free. Slavery was a smokescreen, just like civil rights and other, more extreme, liberal causes are today.

Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan
Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan

Mark12A says: Absent the war, technology would have made slaves free. Slavery was a smokescreen, just like civil rights and other, more extreme, liberal causes are today. Smoke screen or not, it was powerful. I imagine the tales, exaggerated or true, of slavery in the south made the decision to go to war much easier for many a young northern… Read more »

LC MuscleDaddy
LC MuscleDaddy

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

We are all Southerners now…

I am Spartacus.

– MD

LC MuscleDaddy
LC MuscleDaddy

Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan @ #:

Jay – correct me if I’m wrong, but ‘Slavery’ didn’t even become the rallying-cry for the war in the North until the Northern armies got their ass handed to them early-and-often and Lincoln started taking REAL heat in the Northern press – Yes?

– MD

Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan
Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan

I think the little one will make her first trip to Gettysburg this summer, I think it’s important to start teaching her some history before union teachers get their chance. I’ll probably make her school life a bit more difficult at times but she’ll be better off for it.

LC Gladiator
LC Gladiator

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

We are all Southerners now,

i am Batman

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

LC MuscleDaddy says: Jay – correct me if I’m wrong, but ‘Slavery’ didn’t even become the rallying-cry for the war in the North until the Northern armies got their ass handed to them early-and-often and Lincoln started taking REAL heat in the Northern press – Yes? Slavery didn’t become an issue until LIncoln could point to a clear cut victory… Read more »

Igor, Imperial Booby
Igor, Imperial Booby

Sir Crunchie, I have to agree with the general tone of all us commentators, we are all AMERICANS now. Good thing, too, because there are a helluva lot of foreign slimebags out there that would like to see America fail. And fail we will if the likes of Ogabe and Co. are not stopped this election cycle. I would’ve liked… Read more »

LC MuscleDaddy
LC MuscleDaddy

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #: Then the Emancipation proclamation was formalized, funny thing about the proclamation is that it didn’t outright make slavery illegal…but only madethe slaves in slave states free….. Well – and not even THAT, really. It only made ‘free’ those slaves in states that failed to end their Secessionist ways. Under the A.P. –… Read more »

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

LC MuscleDaddy says:

So much for ‘The South fought for Slavery’, eh?

right….very few confederate troops OR their officers owned slaves.

LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech, Imperial Photographer, K.o.E.
LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech, Imperial Photographer, K.o.E.

LC MuscleDaddy says:

Let’s fix that, shall we?

‘Wanna pour you a drink, Bro’.

LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech, Imperial Photographer, K.o.E.
LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech, Imperial Photographer, K.o.E.

Thass weird,, I quoted Igor, and it’s got Muscle Daddy as the,, aww man,, whaddafark…

LC Dread Pirate Geoarrge
LC Dread Pirate Geoarrge

As much as I agree that unity for unity’s sake is stupid, I tend to think that if the Confederate States had been able to secure their independence, it would have led to Very Bad consequences by WWI and WWII. I do not believe that the outcome of the War Between the States was wrong, despite the fact that bad… Read more »

LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.
LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #11: We are all Southerners now, Bullseye! I was born in the Old South (meaning before air conditioning), and for many Damyankees who ask why we won’t forget, the answer is “Because you won’t let us forget”. But for all you Yankees, dam- or ordinary type, who are in favor of local control… Read more »

LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.
LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.

LC MuscleDaddy says:

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:
We are all Southerners now…
I am Spartacus.
– MD

And I am Breitbart too.
And also Zimmerman.

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. says: But for all you Yankees, dam- or ordinary type, who are in favor of local control and “self determination begins at home”, let me joyfully welcome you and declare you de-facto Southerners. Now you can go and enjoy some okra. This here Western Yankee is an honorary member of the 54th Virginia Infantry, awarded to… Read more »

bloodyspartan
bloodyspartan

It’s not quite true we are all Americans. But I am sure we realize this. Those of us for the Republic I say yes, but we have not had a melting plot for a long time and there is plenty of treason and shit parasites around. I doubt talking , writing and voting will fix the Witches Cauldron. When we… Read more »

Tallulah
Tallulah

Hi, Jaybear! if all Yankees and Westerners were gentlemen of your kidney, this would be a Republic of great amity and comity. And you sure do know your history, sir. I would just like to add that only 1% – 2% of all white Southerners owned slaves (per 1860 Census). So the vast majority of Southern soldiers enlisted out of… Read more »

Tallulah
Tallulah

I really regret that I have had to revise my views of Lincoln. Damn, but that man could write. But look at the Gettysburg Address, a masterpiece by any measure: and think about what it means. Weren’t the Southerners the ones fighting for the right to self-determination? Yet it still brings tears to my eyes. Bitter ironies abound. I had… Read more »

Lockpick
Lockpick

I have read many books on the war and studied many papers. The author I trust to provide the best authority is Bruce Catton. He wrote a trilogy and the first book covers many of the arguments leading to the war. I had always wondered was it slavery or something else that led to the war. Shelby Foote is a… Read more »

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

Tallulah says: Hi, Jaybear! if all Yankees and Westerners were gentlemen of your kidney, this would be a Republic of great amity and comity. Thank you Tallulah, that’s very high praise coming from you…..I’m honored. Lockpick says: I have read many books on the war and studied many papers. The author I trust to provide the best authority is Bruce… Read more »

LC TerribleTroy
LC TerribleTroy

@ Lockpick

So how much weight (in reasons for war in totality) do you attribute to this “rich landowner” dynamic in motivating substenance living males to risk life?

readerjp
readerjp

Has anyone here seen “Ride with the Devil?”

Cannon Fodder
Cannon Fodder

Let’s see ….. Rich Southern land owners wanting to preserve their way of life, rallying people to their cause which included owning slaves …… The same types that started the KKK ….. The same types that created the dependent entitlement types on the gubermint plantation today …….. HMMMM….. Just who DOES that reming you of? Hard to think of anyone… Read more »

Imperial Grammar Hun, G.L.O.R
Imperial Grammar Hun, G.L.O.R

It’s ironic, really…we tell the blacks that slavery was a tragedy, for sure, but get over it. We tell the American indians that what happened to them was a tragedy, for sure, but get over it. We tell the Mexicans that what happened to them was a tragedy, for sure, but get over it. We tell the Japanese Americans that… Read more »

Mark12A
Mark12A

And since we’re spinning hypotheticals about an alternative ending to the War of Northern Aggression, I recall reading a work by (I think) Bruce Catton, serialized in Life Magazine in the 1960s about the shape of the country had the South won. He painted a dire picture which, in the retrospective allowed by fifty-odd trips about the sun since, I… Read more »

angrywebmaster
angrywebmaster

If you will excuse me for hijacking this thread, I found a story you all may find very good.
At 92, a Bandit to Hollywood but a Hero to Soldiers

:em01:
Originally it was on the NY Slimes, but I thought I wold do my version instead. The slimes story is actually rather good too.
:em03:

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery

Mark12A says: This, I think, is key to radically transforming our country back from “This United States” to “These United States”. One of the reasons I love Shelby Foote so much is for his thoughts on that very thing. he said that the biggest thing to come from the Civil War was that before the war, we said “The United… Read more »

Imperial Grammar Hun, G.L.O.R
Imperial Grammar Hun, G.L.O.R

*I* didn’t miss it, Crunchie. *I* wasn’t the one who turned this into a pity fest. I was simply replying to those who did. I don’t have a dog in the fight either way. I’m a northerner, true, and have been my entire life, and just as the southerners love their “homeland,” if you will, so I love mine. I’m… Read more »

LC TerribleTroy
LC TerribleTroy

Is it possible that both sides fought for both right and wrong reasons (asis human nature)? Are we back in 1860? Is social / civil unrest / war the inevitable byproduct of our system? I think that we reside in a environment that has a high probability in seeing nationwide rioting in the near future. I think the pot is… Read more »

LC Sir Clambake, Imperial Black Ops Technician, K.o.E.
LC Sir Clambake, Imperial Black Ops Technician, K.o.E.

LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. @ # 41: Got to say, that is probably the most concise metaphor I’ve seen in a while.

I am John Galt.

LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.
LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.

From a historic perspective, slavery was the common fate of captives, and not the worst off all outcomes. Up until the middle of hte 17th century, or thereabouts, there was no POW cmp. nor prisoner exchange, save for a very few, very rich nobles who could arrange ransom. Anyone else was just nuisance baggage for the victors. So you either… Read more »

LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.
LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E.

LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. @ #:

Dammit!!! We need the return of edit! Far more than some of the other bells, whistles, thingamajigs, and trappings.

Lockpick
Lockpick

LC TerribleTroy @ #: Your question is where I see it get interesting. Why would share croppers and small land owners follow the lead of “rich” land owners? From my family history in MS and LA, even the smaller farms in my family had slaves. As few as 5 slaves. Then I think about the number of people who voted… Read more »

ebrown2
ebrown2

Lockpick growls and barks:

How easy it must have been for the dems to convince the small land owners that Lincoln was going to steal their property.

It was. Here are the secession commissioners (the official representatives of the seceded states to the ones in the process of deciding on the issue) making the “defend slavery” argument for secession:

http://civilwarcauses.org/commish.htm

rickl
rickl

LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. says: As has been pointed out here and before, We’re All Southerners Now. Geography doesn’t matter. You, like all of us, are as much a Johnny Reb as you are a Colonial Revolutionary. That’s a good way of putting it. I’ve never lived south of the Mason-Dixon Line, but I’m rather sympathetic to the… Read more »

Lockpick
Lockpick

ebrown2 says: Lockpick growls and barks: How easy it must have been for the dems to convince the small land owners that Lincoln was going to steal their property. It was. Here are the secession commissioners (the official representatives of the seceded states to the ones in the process of deciding on the issue) making the “defend slavery” argument for… Read more »