And Now Some Plain Old Stupidity

Why is it always New Yawk? Well, Kalifornia too I guess, but it’s New Yawk again this time.

Seems that the Intellectually Elite Yankees have decide that it’s time for a kinder, gentler deadly force.

Lawmakers in New York are again contemplating the notion of “shoot-to-wound” legislation and cops in that state are understandably furious.

Ya don’t say? Gee, wonder why?

The so-called ‘minimum force’ bill was drafted in the aftermath the death of Sean Bell outside a Queens, New York strip club on November 25, 2006. Similar legislation has been previously presented, and defeated, but the fact that it’s come around again indicates a particularly slow learning curve among law makers about what law enforcers actually do.

Why should deadly force be any different than anything else in the real world that the perfumed potentates have no fucking clue about? The cerebral powerhouses know plenty about deadly force, definitely more than cops on the street or the instructors who teach them. After all, the legislators have all seen at least three, maybe even four, entire episodes of CSI New York. They’re veritable experts dontcha’ know?

Weiss writes that the bill proposed bill “would force officers to use their weapons ‘with the intent to stop, rather than kill’ a suspect”

You know, I’m a firearms instructor in three disciplines, and something in that sentence sounds so vaguely familiar, but I just can’t put my finger on it. Maybe if I was to just use the term “shoot to stop” a few thousand times more than I already have, it will come back to me.

and would mandate that cops ‘shoot a suspect in the arm or the leg’ as opposed to the present practice of aiming center-mass until the threat is stopped.

Because of course in the stress of a lethal force encounter the arm or leg is just so much easier to hit, and stops a suspect so much faster, than that big old center mass. Nothing better in the world than hitting a bad guy in the leg and watching him immediately stop shooting at you and give up. That is if you don’t miss that skinny, moving target, and kill Granma Kettle on the next block. That’s a real bummer.

“When I encounter civilian response to officer-involved shootings, it’s very often ‘Why didn’t they just shoot him in the leg?’” Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Institute, told Force Science News in a 2006 interview centered on Paterson’s proposed legislation. “When civilians judge police shooting deaths–on juries, on review boards, in the media, in the community–this same argument is often brought forward. Shooting to wound is naively regarded as a reasonable means of stopping dangerous behavior.

“In reality, this thinking is a result of ‘training by Hollywood,’ in which movie and TV cops are able to do anything to control the outcomes of events that serve the director’s dramatic interests. It reflects a misconception of real-life dynamics and ends up imposing unrealistic expectations of skill on real-life officers.”

Ain’t much to add to what Dr. Lewinsky said, except that he was a bit more diplomatic than I am.

This legislation — and other such nonsense like it — was almost certainly drafted by a group of people who have never in their lives operated a firearm, much less done so in the life-or-death context that police officers face every day they pin on the badge.

Avery has an idea on how we can help those folks get an idea. “Put them in a cage with a lion,” Avery suggests. “Then let’s see if they shoot to wound.”

That’s assuming we would bother giving them a gun in the first place. Just throw em in and let the lions have some fun.

Fucking asshats.

newest oldest most voted
Notify of

God forbid I should ever be placed in that position, but I would never shoot to wound. For the simple reason, among them common sense, that I’m not a good enough shot. I don’t think I have seen anybody that is, given the stress and speed involved in such a confrontation. I do know I have been shot at twice… Read more »

LC Gunsniper
LC Gunsniper

Lawmakers in New York are again contemplating the notion of “shoot-to-wound” It figures the same assholes who wouldn’t know the difference between a Glock magazine and a porn magazine want to tie the LEO’s hands behind their backs based on fantasy bullshit. That’s assuming we would bother giving them a gun in the first place. Just throw em in and… Read more »

LC Anniee451
LC Anniee451

Wow. You know, I’m not a, uh, big fan of law enforcement. Yes I’m being mild there. We have some of the most corrupt forces in NJ that you can imagine; some of the most corrupt in the country (I’ve lived under at least two of the most corrupt in the country; unfortunately I know whereof I speak). And if… Read more »

Cortillaen
Cortillaen

LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. says: That’s assuming we would bother giving them a gun in the first place. Just throw em in and let the lions have some fun. Really, Crunchie? How can you be so heartless? What did the poor lions ever do to you to make you want to put them in a cage with stinkin’… Read more »

LC Fei Long
LC Fei Long

Response to Cortillaen @:
Well, the effects of psychedelics on felines isn’t sufficiently understood… and people will do some pretty cruel things if a guy in a lab coat tells them it’s okay because it’s for science, y’know! :em93:

0300, you’ve chased the perp into building after a six block foot chase, your in decent (not top) shape, he’s got a gun and has used it already. Shoot to wound is the last fucking thing on anybodys mind. Going home in a squad car and not a bag is every cops motivation. Parting question: Where are these asshats going… Read more »

Emperor Misha I
Emperor Misha I

Light29ID says:

Parting question: Where are these asshats going to be if they pass this insanity of a bill and then a cop gets killed trying to abide by this stupidity?

Hopefully dangling at the end of a rope or standing in front of a pissed off firing squad.

Elephant Man
Elephant Man

Hopefully dangling at the end of a rope or in front of a pissed off firing squad.

In following the spirit of that asinine law, I’m sure they’ll hang by their neck until “out of breath” or the firing squad will be forced to use “nerf ball” guns….. 🙄

Response to Emperor Misha I @: Hopefully dangling at the end of a rope or standing in front of a pissed off firing squad. Personally, impalement would seem a cheaper, more effective and a definite cost-savings over the long term. However these are Lefts and more than likely they would be celebrating the death of another “pig” while toasting Bill… Read more »

franklaughter
franklaughter

I was a weapons instructor in the Army and I can assure you that teaching shooters to get a round in the target — anywhere in the target — was the real challenge.

LC Draco
LC Draco

Crunchie….my CHL instructor told me when interviewed by LEO after a shoot, NEVER say, “I shot to kill the guy!”..say “I shot to stop the threat!” And after he learned of my past, he said, “You better say…I shot to remove the threat.”

Two center mass, one head shot…kinda lets CSI know your background.

Shrug…it’s in the training… :em02:

LC Draco
LC Draco

Response to franklaughter @:

Good God…what MOSs were you training. We combat arms guys trained for that!!…. I used to use pie plates as center mass targets and Skoal can tops for head shots. I would give guys a four day pass if they could hit 15 and 5 out of a 30 rnd mag.

Two in the Chest, one in the head, two in the ceiling. I fired two warning shots officer. 😉

LC Ogrrre - Imperial Heartless Bastard
LC Ogrrre - Imperial Heartless Bastard

“When I encounter civilian response to officer-involved shootings, it’s very often ‘Why didn’t they just shoot him in the leg?’” Take that civilian to a police gun range, hand him/her the type weapon their police department uses, set up a moving target (either paper or a dummy) and tell the civilian to shoot the moving target in the leg or… Read more »

Crunchie, You took my comment entirely too seriously. First I live in a house not an apartment. The loads I use and the caliber would penetrate the ceiling but would not penetrate my roof, and even if they did they would probably not have enough energy to cause any physical harm to a person or animal. Also the state I… Read more »

Teufelhunden_JD
Teufelhunden_JD

Look on the bright side. The bill didn’t require the cops to shoot the gun out of the guy’s hand. I recently had to defend the actions of the local PD to the fuck-tarted white upper middle class professional students at my law school (you know, the ones who will be writing shitty bills like this in a few years).… Read more »

Teufelhunden_JD
Teufelhunden_JD

Hmm. I meant fuck-tarded, but some of these girls are fuck-tarts too. New word!

LC MuscleDaddy
LC MuscleDaddy

No joke here – and all modesty aside – I am a hell of a shot. Close/Distance/Fast-Draw/Snapping-Off/Range/Combat/LE-HighStress/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/SAW/GrenadeLauncher – no kidding, like I was born to it – I’ve even creeped myself out a couple of times. No way in HELL would I deliberately try to recalibrate myself to this ‘shoot-to-wound’ nonsense – my way has always brought me back through… Read more »

0352crumb crunch
0352crumb crunch

Oh the compasionate elite! This is some of the sickest shit I have ever heard. You don’t shoot to wound people. Hey assholes here is a little secret about gunshot wounds, YOU DON’T EVER RECOVER FROM THEM!
What there talking about is pretty much torture. And it is guaranteed to get a lot of LE personel killed.

LC Thresher
LC Thresher

LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. says: LC Draco says: Good God…what MOSs were you training. He did say shooters, not operators. There’s a difference ya know. But franklaughter does have a very valid point. Training to hit the target can be a daunting challenge for novice shooters. Once that’s done, then you can start training to hit in an… Read more »

LC Thresher
LC Thresher

Gotta say from personal experience that “living” with an ostomy bag ain’t exactly living.

Cannon Fodder
Cannon Fodder

Umm, I thought that when a cop used his/her weapon they were shooting to stop the threat. Although stopping them usually resulted in a high chance the target began assuming room temperature. I was taught that you shoot to remove the threat.

LC Anniee451
LC Anniee451

LC Thresher says: Gotta say from personal experience that “living” with an ostomy bag ain’t exactly living. Well this guy’s having fun at Walmart – http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=32812 And…there was another much clearer picture of a lady in shorts at the pharmacy counter with just one bag at one ankle; that was better but I can’t find it. Anyway, don’t let it… Read more »

LC Anniee451
LC Anniee451

Cannon Fodder says: Umm, I thought that when a cop used his/her weapon they were shooting to stop the threat. Although stopping them usually resulted in a high chance the target began assuming room temperature. I was taught that you shoot to remove the threat. Yep. Seems they want a more level playing field; it just isn’t FAIR that police… Read more »

Tallulah
Tallulah

Here’s a great clip. Ayn Rand versus Moonbat Phil Donohue (I forgot how much I despised him) on the subject of Israel versus the Arabs. :em58: :em58:

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHSv1asFvU&feature=related

NYC’s Union Square Theater was PACKED for the showing of Atlas Shrugged. There’s hope yet, people. :em58: :em58: :em58:

Cortillaen
Cortillaen

LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. says: LC Anniee451 says: Harrison Bergeron all over again. Annie, that’s a new one on me. Enlighten me please? Probably my all-time favorite short-story. Wouldja believe it was required reading for me in high school? A public one, even. LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. says: Cortillaen says: Some guys just got no sensitivity,… Read more »

LCBren
LCBren

Just remember, two to the body, and one to the head, leaves you well alive, and the other bastard dead.

lc purple raider
lc purple raider

By the powers invested in me by his Imperial Vileness, ruler of all know universe and the outlying systems, Emperor Darth Misha I, I hereby decree that fuck-tart is the newest addition to the Imperial Lexicon. All LC’s are hereby enjoined and encouraged to make liberal usage of same when referring to fuckheaded dipsticks without the brain power of a… Read more »

LC Fei Long
LC Fei Long

Cortillaen says:

Probably my all-time favorite short-story. Wouldja believe it was required reading for me in high school? A public one, even.

Vonnegut was a lefty, that’s why. Hey, some people can make good points despite themselves.

LC Ohio Right Wing Nut
LC Ohio Right Wing Nut

lc purple raider says:

Will this then be our new favorite term of endearment for Muzzy (that ignorant slut)?

Could be.. but I will still go with Ignorant Slut

LC ShadowFox
LC ShadowFox

That was so damn stupid it hurt!

Lizard, G.L.O.R.
Lizard, G.L.O.R.

I wrote a whole post and then decided that there really are not words for this stupidity. I want the men and women who put their lives on the line to protect me to have the right and ability to do so and protect themselves as well. For those that feel they have the right to aim at and/or shoot… Read more »

LC Draco
LC Draco

Liz…most of the LEO here in Texas I chat with LOVE the fact that there are CHL owners out in the world.

I can’t find the video atm…but there is a video of a news cameraman who pulls his weapon and gets a perp off a police officer.

LC Patton
LC Patton

Nice to know that New York’s government gets all its information on law enforcement from Hollywood. Next they’ll introduce bills that penalize any cops who can’t catch a criminal by the end of the episode.

OK all, I luv our chew toys as anybody else here but we need to refrain from the personal attacks on DJ and Muzzy. First off, DJ keeps this bucket of bolts of a website up and running so we need to show a little curtsey towards his insanity. Second, Muzzy maybe an ignorant slut but she’s or ignorant slut… Read more »

<our
<off
<shred

GET THE FUCKING CORRECTION BUTTON BACK DJ!!!!!!

LC LucysDaddy--Imperial Tire Warranty Expert
LC LucysDaddy--Imperial Tire Warranty Expert

Emperor Misha I says: Hopefully dangling at the end of a rope or standing in front of a pissed off firing squad. My liege…not to sound impudent, but if the LEOs are required to shoot to wound, doesn’t it stand to reason that the firing squads would be under the same orders? Light29ID says: Where are these asshats going to… Read more »