Color Us Not Surprised

The Collapse of the Left-Wing Media
by Bill O’Reilly

Let’s make this perfectly clear, I personally think that O’Reilly is a blow-hard moderate that makes his living off of playing both sides against the middle. Nonetheless, this one is a fast-ball over the plate into the teeth of the left-stream media. I’ll give him credit for getting the ball over the plate once in awhile.

There is much irony in the fact that while liberals have won power in Washington big time, left-wing media are collapsing all over the place. In the last couple of weeks, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, the Minneapolis Star Tribune and the mother of all liberal publications, The New York Times, each has issued SOS announcements.

Don’t expect any wailing or gnashing of teeth from this shop, we have no qualms about dancing and pissing on the graves that YOU have built for yourselves. We do agree that Buddhist monks immolating themselves during the Viet Nam generation made for better pictorial sensations, yet your drum-beat of bullshit as alleged ‘news’ provides even a sweeter irony, totally lost on you and your management.

The Seattle paper will cease publication in March unless a buyer is found. Even though it can’t pay its bills, the Post-Intelligencer should have been inducted into the left-wing hall of fame after its publisher told the FBI to buzz off when the agency asked for media help in locating two possible terror suspects.

And why should there be any surprise in that? It’s a safe bet that any American that understands that we are at WAR with an implacable foe, should fail to rationalize hiding our enemies under a gossamer front of journalistic ‘fairness and balance’ would buy into this, is barely short of treason? You made your own bed, foolishly thinking that a loud, but dangerously small cadre, really supported your cause.

The Minneapolis paper, dubbed the Red Star by some in Minnesota, filed for bankruptcy after its earnings dropped more than 50 percent in one year. That despite the presidential vote and a vicious election between Sen. Norm Coleman and Al Franken.

Quite the feather in your cap, no? Considering Pravda is out of business as well, why would any sane management allow you to side with the sworn enemy of our country AND expect all but a few mental patients not yet committed (and fellows in Treason) to agree? The singularity of stoopid is strong in you, and if you REALLY believe, then a firing squad is the only real solution to your dilemma.

As for The New York Times: It is Twilight Zone time. The paper was already trying to use equity in its Manhattan office building to pay debts, and now has borrowed $250 million from Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim Helu. And get this: The Times is paying old Carlos an astounding 14 percent interest. What, was Tony Soprano not available? Does the description “loan shark” mean anything to the ideologues running the Times? The prime lending rate in America is 3.25 percent, and these guys are paying Carlos Slim 14 percent. Wow.

Regardless of the personal suckage being endured at the moment, it’s a great boost to see those that are so much more “nuanced” and “intelligent” than the unwashed “plebian masses” destroy your bottom line. It really, REALLY sucks when your carnival of deception, treason and lies, shoves your bottom line up your asses, where it truly belongs. Sucks to be you and you earned it ALL on your own, no help from reality of understanding your doppleganger readership, if there ever truly was.

On the TV front, the uber-liberal, Bush-hating MSNBC network ranked 31 in total day ratings for the first two weeks of January. I think that’s right behind the “Roller Derby Channel.” General Electric, which owns NBC, has taken a sharp turn to the left in its corporate philosophy and, at the same time, is watching its stock price decline from about $50 a share to around $13. The fact that GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt still has his job ranks up there with the miracle of the U.S. Airways water landing.

We’ll see how much longer Jeffy’s gilt-cage holds out. I’m guessing that by late spring, his bonus line will be “Can I Supersize that for you”?. When the metal hits the road, the lightweight stuff scrubs off first.

Why are the liberal media taking a pounding when the left now controls Congress and the Oval Office? It may be because of the economy. After the recession blindsided the folks last fall, anger filled the air. Why weren’t we warned that the financial industry was awash in bad housing loans? President Bush and Sen. John McCain had no answer. So the folks voted for the Democrats.

C’mon Bill, the Democraps won because the media carefully, willfully and deceitfully hid the FACT that congress held a lower approval rating than the White House. A few slanderous stories here and there, convinced the 52% crowd that the White House was worse than the “Most Ethical Congress Evah”. The alternative was an untested, empty suit, ward heel from the Chicago demonrat machine that NEVER won an election on his own. You clothed the naked Emperor with ignorance, malfeasance and a refusal to expose the TRUTH about the current pestilence that inhabits the White House. How does that truly feel, do you sleep better at night with the knowledge that YOU and YOU ALONE have wrought pestilence and incompetence on this Great Republic at a time when true, honest and strong Leadership was critical to our very survival?

But that doesn’t mean the American people became liberals overnight. In fact, some folks became even more conservative with their spending and lifestyles. The images of left-wing media people gloating over the failure of the Bush administration did not cheer many people up. In fact, I believe it teed a lot of them off.

Jeez, any chance that the real conservative America got a RINO shoved down their throats by an arcance and idiotic primary system that allowed the GOP to determine in advance who got the nod? Well gollee and jeepers.

Despite the power shift in Washington, America remains a traditional country that largely rejects big government and radical social change. The former hippies running the crazy-left media will never get that. They believe most Americans want gay marriage, political correctness and unfettered abortion. They believe everyday folks think ponytails and pierced ears on old guys are cool.

You don’t say O’Reilly-San. America is still by and far conservative, and in spite of a carefully orchestrated all-out attack by the media it remains so. Lesson Learned: You can use the MSM to achieve your goals, but is it capable of keeping it on track when the Truth is laid bare in it’s hideous intent? Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Well, these Abbie Hoffman wannabes are sadly out of touch. And soon, maybe out of work.

And hopefully out of vital physiological signs as well. These vermin are hell-bent on destroying 200+ years of the greatest experiment in self-governance the world has seen, and the REAL majority of us are NOT about to abandon it yet. Not by a LONG shot.

F.E.T.E. (Hat Tip to Brother B.C., but it’s most appropriate here)

Carry-On (or alternatively create carrion, just sayin’, ’tis your choice you know where I stand-JB)

84 comments

  1. 51
    Muzzy says:

    Jaybear wrote:

    It’s too damned bad that you and the other appeasers don’t appreciate the nature of the savage who is currently knocking at your door.

    I’m no appeaser. I was, and indeed I still am, entirely supportive of the war in Afghanistan. I want Bin Laden dead, I want Al-Qaeda dismantled forever, and I want democracy to flourish in Afghanistan. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq took precious lives and material resources away from the Afghan theatre to be squandered in an entirely pointless diversion in a country then unrelated to any of our foreign policy concerns.

    How do you think our chances of finding and killing Bin Laden would have fared if we’d allocated the resources wasted in Iraq to fighting the Taliban & Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan? Personally, I think they would have improved dramatically. I think the war in Iraq was a dreadful, horrific, and entirely tragic waste of lives and resources which served no purpose other than to increase popular support for Al-Qaeda across the middle east and impede our ability to combat Islamic terrorism.

    Or, to phrase it the way you undoubtedly would have phrased it if we were arguing the opposite cases, “It’s too damned bad that you and the other appeasers (of Bin Laden) don’t have the tactical sense God gave a woodlouse.”

    WE didn’t provoke them, they have been hammering away at innocent civilians for decades…..remember Lockerbie? the London subway bombings? the attempt at Glasgow airport?….all aimed at combatants right?

    Yeah, and THEY weren’t in Iraq before Bush blundered in there and fucked up the infrastructure. Bush brought the spectre of Islamofascism to Iraq and now these Islamofascists are killing our soldiers and Iraqi civilians.

    It really is a pity that you OR Iraq body count don’t have the courage to track those statistics……but then again, that would go counter to your anti-western agenda wouldn’t it.

    Lockerbie – 270 fatalities.
    July 7th bombings – 52 fatalities.
    Glasgow airport attack – 0 fatalities (terrorists don’t count).

    Total: 322 (or, if you prefer, 3 weeks worth of Iraqi civilian casualties in Iraq according to Iraq Body Count)

    There. Tracked. Took ten seconds and two google searches. Now will you stop throwing these bullshit red herrings at me?

    Incidentally, the 7/7 suicide bombers left epitaphs on videotape explicitly stating that their primary motive was to strike back at the British government for colluding with Bush on the invasion of Iraq. So you could argue that the Iraq war has made Britain tangibly less safe from Islamic terrorism.

    a whole hell of a lot of dead hirabis, but again, you and Iraq body Count don’t care about those statistics.

    Personally, I’d like to see how many of these terrorists became terrorists solely in response to the invasion of Iraq. Do you care about those numbers? See, killing terrorists is all well and good, but I’d rather not make the enemies in the first place.

    Mrs M.ITT wrote:

    Well hate to break it to you Muzzy….guess you’re going to have to pretend that all those deaths are perfectly fine to deal with since your Messiah is about to add to that number. I know it wasn’t ok when Bush was doing it, but I know that now that Obambi is the one giving orders you will be behind this war 100% right?

    I’m not some peacenik who opposes all war in all circumstances. Some wars are perfectly justified. The war in Afghanistan, which your article indicates is what Obama is trying to pursue more aggressively, is a good example of a Just War. If Bush had done what Obama is planning to do, I’d have agreed with it.

    L.C. Terrible Troy wrote:

    And MUZZY please provide exact examples of how the US CONSTITUTION was violated and how my rights were impacted. Please provide which specific right, and how the action violated the legal intent within each amendment. DJ feel free to play also.. but I would rather see Muzzy provide his unique insight.

    The NSA warrantless surveillance program, authorised by Bush, has greatly eroded your fourth amendment protections. The fourth amendment states:

    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”.

    The Supreme Court held in Katz v. United States (1967), that the monitoring and recording of private conversations within the United States constitutes a “search” for Fourth Amendment purposes. The NSA warrantless surveillance program allows the government to listen in to conversations with foreign parties without obtaining the warrant necessary to satisfy the standards of the fourth amendment.

    In summary:

    Specific right: 4th amendment protections against unreasonable warrantless search and seizure.
    The action: The institution of the NSA warrantless surveillance program.
    Nature of violation: Government is now allowed to eavesdrop on your private conversations to foreign parties without getting a warrant.

    More examples available on request.

  2. 52
    TerribleTroy says:

    Sure I’ll take two more, …………….foreign parties :em01: What? are you pissed about being out of a job acting as an Al Q coordinator? Cant talk on the phone to all your friends in america cause the governement is listening?

  3. 53

    Muzzy sez:

    I’m no appeaser. I was, and indeed I still am, entirely supportive of the war in Afghanistan. I want Bin Laden dead, I want Al-Qaeda dismantled forever, and I want democracy to flourish in Afghanistan. Bush’s decision to invade Iraq took precious lives and material resources away from the Afghan theatre to be squandered in an entirely pointless diversion in a country then unrelated to any of our foreign policy concerns.

    would it have made any damned difference in World War II if we had killed Hitler? NO…..there were still armies in the field and underlings ready to assume command, at least until he proved himself mad enough to make his generals try to kill him. Hell, we tracked down the mastermind of Pearl Harbor and shot him out of the air and we STILL had to fight the Japanese for another 3 years. Iraq is just one of many fronts in this battle, we kill bin laden and that does not end the war…it is a many front war, waged by adherents to an ideaology that want you and me dead muzzy. There are many places that that war is being waged, in the Phillipines, in Sri Lanka, in Indonesia and in many other shit holes that spawn these creatures.

    Yeah, and THEY weren’t in Iraq before Bush blundered in there and fucked up the infrastructure. Bush brought the spectre of Islamofascism to Iraq and now these Islamofascists are killing our soldiers and Iraqi civilians.

    Way to dodge the hard question muzzy, going back to Bush bashing is easy when you can’t honestly answer a question…..how typical. Here, let me put it to you again:

    WE didn’t provoke the Muslims, they have been hammering away at innocent civilians for decades…..remember Lockerbie? the London subway bombings? the attempt at Glasgow airport?….all aimed at combatants right? Right???? Oh yeah, I forgot about Madrid…..good sound foreign policy that. Tuck and run when the islamic enemy target your subways…..yeah

    Lockerbie – 270 fatalities.
    July 7th bombings – 52 fatalities.
    Glasgow airport attack – 0 fatalities (terrorists don’t count).

    Total: 322 (or, if you prefer, 3 weeks worth of Iraqi civilian casualties in Iraq according to Iraq Body Count)

    There. Tracked. Took ten seconds and two google searches. Now will you stop throwing these bullshit red herrings at me?

    good boy, here have another red herring as a treat. Do those casualties mean anything to you? did the evil Bushhitler do that to innocent civilians? I sure don’t see those figures on your biased anti American Iraq body count site….piece of shit that it is.

    Incidentally, the 7/7 suicide bombers left epitaphs on videotape explicitly stating that their primary motive was to strike back at the British government for colluding with Bush on the invasion of Iraq. So you could argue that the Iraq war has made Britain tangibly less safe from Islamic terrorism.

    so what is your government doing about that? have they approved all the permits for the mega mosque yet? are they still allowing Sharia law in the courts? are they still bending over to the demands of the islamic immigrants youths who riot and threaten whenever they perceive a slight to their devil cult?

    been nice knowing you Albion.

    Personally, I’d like to see how many of these terrorists became terrorists solely in response to the invasion of Iraq. Do you care about those numbers? See, killing terrorists is all well and good, but I’d rather not make the enemies in the first place.

    They were already made man, they considered us enemies centuries ago.

    In summary:

    Specific right: 4th amendment protections against unreasonable warrantless search and seizure.
    The action: The institution of the NSA warrantless surveillance program.
    Nature of violation: Government is now allowed to eavesdrop on your private conversations to foreign parties without getting a warrant.

    More examples available on request.

    well being that you’re so good at google searches, do one on Elian Gonzales. I still don’t hear any outrage over that.

  4. 54
    BigDogg says:

    LC Anniee451 sez:

    LOL – I’m prob’ly the only person here who thinks DJ is a dick.

    Now there’s two of us … :em93:

  5. 55
    BigDogg says:

    Muzzy sez:

    I’m no … blah, blah, blah.

    Same ol’ leftist dhimmi-crap playbook … you know, you’re going to have to rewrite all of those old talking points now that there’s a genuine socialist in our White House.

    Until such time, having a great big steaming cup of STFU.

  6. 56
    LC Gunsniper says:

    Since this thread has drifted into other tangents what’s one more?

    The donks are already making excuses for imminent failure on the economy.

  7. 57

    LC Gunsniper sez:

    The donks are already making excuses for imminent failure on the economy.

    Not surprising really, being that it’s said by the same jackasses that triggered this economic freefall in the first place.

  8. 58
    LC Anniee451 says:

    Deathknyte @:
    Yes.

  9. 59
    LC Anniee451 says:

    BigDogg sez:

    LC Anniee451 sez:
    LOL – I’m prob’ly the only person here who thinks DJ is a dick.

    Now there’s two of us …

    Hehe.

  10. 60

    Hey, Muzzy,

    IIRC, several of the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi. Would it be a “just” war to attack Saudi Arabia? And Pakistan has shown themselves friends to the US in the past. What about the drones that are killing people on Bambi’s watch? Is that okay with you?

    And as for listening in on people’s conversations…the US has far too many people for the NSA to be listening in on everyone’s conversations (although I had someone tell me they did). Plus, eavesdropping by the gov’t has been going on for decades (well back to the forty-year democrat congress that we had).

  11. 61

    Anniee and BigDogg,

    I lost all respect for Dave when he came in here and crapped on Misha’s carpet with his talk of Bush’s crimes that he committed both inside and outside of the white house.

    When Brendan and I *both* (and BisW, too, iirc) challenged him to list provable, prosecutable crimes. We’re still waiting. He needs to put up, or shut up. He didn’t because he can’t.

  12. 62
    Deathknyte says:

    This dossier released by ‘Iraq Body Count’ attributes approximately 6,616 deaths to the actions of U.S. forces during the invasion phase.

    Wasn’t Iraq Body Count discredited oh.. for five or six years ago now? I know one of the body count sites was. It turned out they were counting every death as attributable to the war, even the deaths from old age. Saddam was killing what? Thirty thousand a year?

    Specifically, I’m talking about his use of signing statements as line-item vetoes to undermine Congress and his domestic eavesdropping program.

    Line item vetos? Did that actually pass? I dont recall it passing. As far as the domestic spying is concerned he was doing less of it than private companies do here. You would be shocked to find out how much dirt they have on individuals.

    Really, America is better off without that guy.

    Yes, people should have elected me. I would cut spending to only things that we actually need. No NEA, Departments of education, housing, urban development, or anything else I see no point in wasting money on. That includes the UN and foreign aid.

    Um…why do you all put up with this fucktard again?

    Which one? Muzzy is only here because I can’t black mail management into banning him.

    And as for listening in on people’s conversations…the US has far too many people for the NSA to be listening in on everyone’s conversations (although I had someone tell me they did).

    Don’t you know “There are 40 acres of servers under Fort Meade to listen in on phone conversations.” Ok, I don’t remember the exact quote but you get a virtual cookie if you can name the movie.

    Oh, I find it amusing that Dave will write paragraphs of material and I will only read about two sentences before getting bored and moving to the next comment.

  13. 63
    LC hilljohnny says:

    Muzzy sez:

    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”.
    The Supreme Court held in Katz v. United States (1967), that the monitoring and recording of private conversations within the United States constitutes a “search” for Fourth Amendment purposes. The NSA warrantless surveillance program allows the government to listen in to conversations with foreign parties without obtaining the warrant necessary to satisfy the standards of the fourth amendment.

    the people with the right are the people of the United States. if the police have a warrent to tap “Big Al’s” phone and Big Al’s son calls my daughter they don’t need to have a warrent to tap my phone to listen in. any call in or out is fair game. the government is not restricted by the constitution from tapping phones outside the U.S. . it does not matter where the tapped phone is calling to or being called from, a legal tap covers both sides of the conversation. Katz v U.S. does not cover this stituation.

  14. 64
    lc purple raider says:

    So there was no link between Saddam and Al-Queda?

    Back on Feb. 17, 1998, Hayes notes, Clinton – speaking at the Pentagon – warned of the “reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.” He said these “predators of the twenty-first century,” who are America’s enemies, “will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.”

    And later the same spring, Clinton’s Justice Department prepared an indictment of al-Qaida’s leader, Osama bin Laden, in which a prominent passage located in the fourth paragraph reads:

    “Al-Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al-Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al-Qaeda would work cooperatively with the government of Iraq.”

    No nothing to see here, just move along.

    Oh, I find it amusing that Dave will write paragraphs of material and I will only read about two sentences before getting bored and moving to the next comment.

    I think the drivel from the resident Marxist apologist is completely unreadable.

    And his links…

  15. 65
    lc purple raider says:

    Your exact quote:

    Citatel — Hannity’s old network — is filing for bankruptcy. Premiere Networks is (hannity’s new network and Rush’s network) is also filing for bankruptcy. Westwood One is almost down the toilet also.

    Cutting 1850 jobs is not the same as filing for bankruptcy.

    So, you are full of something.

  16. 66

    Muzzy sez:

    ….which complements Obama’s economic & legal smarts.

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :em99:

    Oh yes. His economic smarts.

    “We are so far in debt because the Bush administration spent too much money. I am smarter (and different – I’m CHANGE) than Bush so my plan, and our country’s only option, is to spend even more money and get into deeper debt and/or print more money.”

    A mate works for a financial advisory firm and sent me their Chief Economist’s report from the last meeting. I don’t have the exact quote on me at the moment but it went along the lines of

    “Only a moron from Girraween (a dodgy suburb here that has the reputation of being a haven for crims, bums, and other low life) would believe that these stimulus pacakges will do anything other than create deeper debt, especially without fundamental structural reform of the banking and finance systems, which neither government (talking about the US and Australia) have announced.

    I love it. You fuckwits claimed McCain was Bush-Lite (which he was) but conveniently ignore the fact that Obama is Bush-Concentrate. Bush is incompetent but when Obama makes the same mistakes but on a larger scale, he has economic smarts…

  17. 67
    Muzzy says:

    L.C. Terrible Trou wrote:

    Sure I’ll take two more.

    So you don’t dispute the first. Good. We can agree that Bush eroded your 4th amendment rights. So, two more, eh? Okay. How about these?

    1) On 10/31/2001 John Ashcroft issued emergency regulation 66 Fed.Reg 55062 which allowed the government to monitor conversations between attorneys and their clients.

    This regulation erodes the 1st and 4th amendment rights of all Americans. Theoretically, this regulation allows the government to eavesdrop on everyone’s attorney/client communications. Just like the NSA wiretap scheme, it violates people’s 4th amendment right to be protected against unreasonable search & seizure (remember, monitoring private communications counts as a search).

    It also violates the 1st amendment because it undermines the effectiveness of counsel. A defendent cannot effectively “Petition the government for redress of grievance” if he knows his attorney/client communications are being monitored.

    2) Under the PATRIOT act, the U.S. government can theoretically jail Americans indefinitely and without trial in clear violation of the 6th amendment simply by declaring them ‘Illegal enemy combatants’.

    Foreign parties :em01: What? are you pissed about being out of a job acting as an Al Q coordinator? Cant talk on the phone to all your friends in america cause the governement is listening?

    What the fuck are you yammering about? I don’t have to worry about anything. Bush didn’t erode my rights, only yours. You guys are the ones who have to watch your backs.

    Jaybear wrote:

    Would it have made any damned difference in World War II if we had killed Hitler? NO

    Actually, yes. It would have made a huge difference. It would have had a serious impact on German military morale, it would arguably have gone a long way toward preventing the Holocaust, and, most importantly, it would have been the right thing to do.

    There were still armies in the field and underlings ready to assume command, at least until he proved himself mad enough to make his generals try to kill him.

    So…what? Because killing Bin Laden won’t necessarily destroy Al-Qaeda, we shouldn’t do it? We should instead expend thousands of lives and countless billions of dollars in a fruitless conflict in a completely unrelated country just…because?

    Iraq is just one of many fronts in this battle, we kill bin laden and that does not end the war

    So therefore it’s not worth doing. Right. Gotcha.

    it is a many front war, waged by adherents to an ideaology that want you and me dead muzzy.

    And the Iraq war is the greatest terrorist recruiting tool imaginable.

    There are many places that that war is being waged, in the Phillipines, in Sri Lanka, in Indonesia and in many other shit holes that spawn these creatures.

    Question: If America waged war against Indonesia on the grounds that Islamic terrorists were operating there, and killed thousands of civilians in the process, do you think the number of Muslims willing to engage in suicidal attacks against troops and civilians would increase or decrease?

    I’ve bolded this question so you don’t forget to answer it.

    WE didn’t provoke the Muslims, they have been hammering away at innocent civilians for decades…..remember Lockerbie? the London subway bombings? the attempt at Glasgow airport?….all aimed at combatants right? Right???? Oh yeah, I forgot about Madrid…..good sound foreign policy that. Tuck and run when the islamic enemy target your subways…..yeah

    Okay, first of all. We’re not fighting “The Muslims”. There are 1.6 billion muslims in the world and if they all wanted us dead, we would be dead. End of. We are fighting radicalised adherents to Wahabbism, a subset of Islam. Our task is to nautralise the militants before they get a chance to attack us while simultaneously helping more moderate muslims discredit the ideological basis for Wahabbism. How, exactly, did the Iraq war help us do that?

    Do those casualties mean anything to you? did the evil Bushhitler do that to innocent civilians? I sure don’t see those figures on your biased anti American Iraq body count site….piece of shit that it is.

    Ah, the evergreen canard of the right-wing blowhard. If the information doesn’t make Republicans look good, it simply has to be biased. There’s no other explanation because, as we all know, Republicans can never fuck up.

    For your information, Iraq Body Count gives the most conservative death toll of any mainstream casualty tracking organisation. The Iraqi Health Ministry places the civilian violent death toll since our invasion at nearly twice that of the IBC. Iraq Body Count tracks only those deaths which can be verified by at least 2 news reports and official Iraqi figures. This means that those deaths which don’t get reported on simply don’t get included. Therefore, the IBC can only provide a bottom level estimate of the casualty figures. Take the figure on their site, about about 50-60 thousand to it, and you’v got a fairer approximation of the real total.

    Of course, I’m sure you have a far more “Fair and balanced” resource devoted to tracking how many Iraqi civilians really died during the course of this conflict. Or maybe you don’t care about those casulaties? Maybe those casulaties don’t mean anything to you? After all, they’re only Muslims. They’re not real, rock-ribbed, God fearing Republican Americans like you.

    well being that you’re so good at google searches, do one on Elian Gonzales. I still don’t hear any outrage over that.

    Well, I don’t hear you making any fuss over the atrocity that is the new Guns ‘n Roses album, so your point is invalid. Idiot.

    L.C. Skyechild wrote:

    IIRC, several of the 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi. Would it be a “just” war to attack Saudi Arabia?

    It would have been far more just than the war in Iraq. Of course, we could never do it without causing catastrophic disruption to the world’s oil supply and an attack on the nation which houses Mecca would have been seen as an attack on Islam itself, which is an impression we want to avoid giving if at all possible. So it would have been a very, very bad idea. But we would have had more moral authority to do it than we had to attack Iraq.

    And as for listening in on people’s conversations…the US has far too many people for the NSA to be listening in on everyone’s conversations (although I had someone tell me they did).

    They may very well have listened in on your conversations for all you know.

    Plus, eavesdropping by the gov’t has been going on for decades (well back to the forty-year democrat congress that we had).

    Not without a warrant.

    Deathknyte

    Wasn’t Iraq Body Count discredited oh.. for five or six years ago now?

    No. It wasn’t.

    I know one of the body count sites was. It turned out they were counting every death as attributable to the war, even the deaths from old age.

    Cite?

    Saddam was killing what? Thirty thousand a year?

    No. He wasn’t.

    Line item vetos? Did that actually pass? I dont recall it passing.

    Try reading for comprehension, fucknut. I didn’t say Bush was granted the power to enact line-item vetoes. I said he was using signing statements as line-item vetoes in effect.

    As far as the domestic spying is concerned he was doing less of it than private companies do here. You would be shocked to find out how much dirt they have on individuals.

    The fact that he was doing it at all constitutes a violation of your 4th amendment rights which, as I’m sure you don’t recall, was the point.

    Which one? Muzzy is only here because I can’t black mail management into banning him.

    Hey, if Misha sincerely asked me to leave, I’d leave. If I was on your site, and you asked me to leave, I would.

  18. 68
    LC hilljohnny says:

    The former hippies running the crazy-left media will never get that. They believe most Americans want gay marriage, political correctness and unfettered abortion. They believe everyday folks think ponytails and pierced ears on old guys are cool.

    back to nearly on topic, could the lefts stance on abortion and gay marriage be an undercover eugenics program?

  19. 69

    Deej

    This has nothing to do with content, and EVERYTHING to do with technology.

    At risk of having my head separated from my shoulders for high treason and assorted other transgressions against the Empire, I am going to have to agree with DJ on this one.

    Print media simply missed the boat, be it the NYT or my little Po-Dunk backwater paper in TN, they missed the technology boom in the late 90’s.

    What really killed them was and still is in some ways the wild wild west atmosphere of the WWW, where even now 90% of the content out there is free.

    Now admittedly people like us are not going to pay to read the NYT on line, I think they tried a online subscription for awhile and it failed,(?)but no matter your political leanings no one is going to pay for something that is free one or two mouse clicks away via another website.

    Couple this with things like:

    A drop in reading by Americans of ANY type of print publication, What I mean here is and I apologize, I don’t have the actual study and I forget where it was published, but there was something come out not too long ago that Americans over all, read less then our parents do, they simply don’t have the time, or in some cases (IMO) don’t value reading like I and some here probably do, I’m a book worm.

    An ever increasing push for “green” initiatives, face it nothing is going to set off a green solider for mother gaia like the NYT churning out 20 tons of Newsprint every single day. That publications like the NYT are seen as a “left” leaning publication makes this even more difficult because they are inherently at odds with their customer base.

    A crippled economy is not going to help them either.

    Simply stated times have changed, no-one I know, including myself even remotely resembles my fathers generation who worked the mill, came home, cracked a beer, read the paper with his supper then watched the 6’o clock news and dozed off on the couch. That era is gone folks.

  20. 70

    Actually, yes. It would have made a huge difference. It would have had a serious impact on German military morale, it would arguably have gone a long way toward preventing the Holocaust, and, most importantly, it would have been the right thing to do.

    Just a note here, and in no means am I defending Hitler, however “the final solution to the Jewish question” was actually engineered by those below him, and his death most likely would have only incited further resolve on the Nazi’s part to control Europe, unfettered by Hitlers grandiose schemes to over run Russia, they very well may have been much more militarily difficult to beat.

    Secondly, Hitler was a dictator and “it would have been the right thing to do” directly refutes your assertion that the US removing Saddam who cannot be argued was every bit the same type of Dictator as Hitler although a little less adept at genocide, was somehow wrong.

    I have a sudden vision……. of Muzzy running frantically down the gridiron to reach the goal post…only to rip them out of the sod, and move them closer to fit his argument … :em02:

    Just saying is all.

  21. 71
    Draven32 says:

    Considering Pravda is out of business as well,

    It isn’t.

  22. 72

    Muzzy sez:

    Actually, yes. It would have made a huge difference. It would have had a serious impact on German military morale, it would arguably have gone a long way toward preventing the Holocaust, and, most importantly, it would have been the right thing to do.

    well in your chanberlainesque view of history it probably would have….peace in our time and all that. There was still a lot of Nazi structure under Hitler, his death would have not been a blow to morale. Most German troops were not Nazi’s, they were fighting for Germany not Hitler. Same as the Muslim terrorists are fighting for their filthy ideaology and not for bin laden.

    So…what? Because killing Bin Laden won’t necessarily destroy Al-Qaeda, we shouldn’t do it?

    I’d love to see it done, and in a most slow and painful fashion. Most leftist though see his death as the end of the conflict, they say inane things like “ohhhhh we should be going after bin laden instead of fighting terrorists in Iraq”.

    We should instead expend thousands of lives and countless billions of dollars in a fruitless conflict in a completely unrelated country just…because?

    and we shouldn’t have invaded North Africa and Italy and Sicily and France and Czechoslovakia because….after all….THEY didn’t attack us, the Japanese did. We knew where Hitler was, but he had combat forces in those countries just like the islamoNazi’s have fighting forces in the countries where we are presently engaged, you need the destroy the enemy’s ability to wage war, kill the figurehead and you accomplish nothing but a cheap PR victory……and yes, there WERE terrorist facilities in Iraq before we invaded.

    Question: If America waged war against Indonesia on the grounds that Islamic terrorists were operating there, and killed thousands of civilians in the process, do you think the number of Muslims willing to engage in suicidal attacks against troops and civilians would increase or decrease?

    I’ve bolded this question so you don’t forget to answer it.

    thank you for bolding it muzzy, my eyesight ain’t what it used to be. So here’s my answer:
    If America waged war in Indonesia and killed thousands of civilians I DO believe that we would see an insurgency that would dwarf what we saw in Iraq. However….and this is a point that you appeasers on the left choose to ignore…..we do NOT kill thousands of civilians, the hirabis do that and do it intentionally, and you elevate them above us……great moral equivalency there.

    Of course, I’m sure you have a far more “Fair and balanced” resource devoted to tracking how many Iraqi civilians really died during the course of this conflict. Or maybe you don’t care about those casulaties? Maybe those casulaties don’t mean anything to you? After all, they’re only Muslims. They’re not real, rock-ribbed, God fearing Republican Americans like you.

    First off, I’m not a Republican, left the party years ago over the same reasons that lost them the last two elections. Actually, I dislike the Repubs almost as much as I dislike the demoRats.

    Secondly, your typical left wing hand wringing guilt trips don’t work on me. Track civilian casualties all you want, you seem to care more about casualties from our forces than with the deaths of your own innocent countrymen, women, and children in subway bombings and plane crashings and kidnappings and embassy bombings.

    Now, regarding the 4th Amendment question that I’ve asked you a couple of times and you are afraid to address: (and I’ll bold it up for YOU)

    Where is your outrage over the blatant disregard of Marisleysis Gonzales 4th Amendment rights when INS agents kidnapped her cousin at gunpoint in her house? Google it if you’re not familiar with the case muzzy.

    Third time I’ve asked that question, oh great Constitutional scholar, and all you can come up with in reply is a reference to Guns ‘n’ Roses and to call me an idiot.

    Coward

  23. 73

    Muzzy,

    In case you haven’t noticed, you’d better do your homework if you expect to discuss history with Jay. He’ll nail you every time.

  24. 74
    lc purple raider says:

    Again DJ:

    your exact quote

    Citatel — Hannity’s old network — is filing for bankruptcy. Premiere Networks is(hannity’s new network and Rush’s network) is also filing for bankruptcy. Westwood One is almost down the toilet also.

    You didn’t say layoff, you didn’t say blocks of holdings, you said bankruptcy.

    Might want to make sure that no one else has that same issue of Talkers Magazine next time.

    BTW: Premier Radio has quite a few talkers, most of them liberal.

    And only four conservatives.

  25. 75

    He’ll nail you every time.

    ‘Bet you can get a witness from any of his students!

    Jaybear

    they say inane things like “ohhhhh we should be going after bin laden instead of fighting terrorists in Iraq”.

    I like react to that sort of tripe with another bit of the same logic:

    “Attacking Germany was sooo wrong, after all, hitler didn’t bomb Pearl Harbor!”

  26. 76
    anonymous hourly worker says:

    I would go along with calling him a dick sometimes, Annie. But don’t get offended, DJ. I call my husband a dick all the time, and I sleep with him.

  27. 77
    anonymous hourly worker says:

    I cannot believe that I actually agree with DJ for once, on this one thing. Someone must be selling cherry Icees in Hell right now.

  28. 78
    anonymous hourly worker says:

    Always keep in mind that editors give the assignments, edit the copy and kill the stories; one liberal editor can keep all conservative viewpoints out of his or her section of the paper.

  29. 79
    anonymous hourly worker says:

    Why would I care if they listened in to my conversations? They can listen all they want. Maybe some day one of the agents will get so tired of my best friend complaining about her daughter that he will break radio silence and yell, “Jesus, lady, shut the fuck up!”

  30. 80
    LC Gunsniper says:

    Specific right: 4th amendment protections against unreasonable warrantless search and seizure.
    The action: The institution of the NSA warrantless surveillance program.
    Nature of violation: Government is now allowed to eavesdrop on your private conversations to foreign parties without getting a warrant.

    Wrong.
    Wrong.
    Wrong.

    The eavesdropping occurs when you are conversating with a known terrorist and it starts on the terrorists end, not yours.

    They don’t give a shit about your conversations with your Aunt Olga in Bremerhaven. They don’t give a shit about your conversations with the pumpkinhead you were hosing in Nice on holiday. They damn sure don’t give a shit about your conversations with your phone-sex bukakke queen in Osaka.

    That’s what happens when you take the media’s bullshit stories as gospel.

  31. 81
    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. says:

    ponytails … on old guys

    Hey now, I resemble that remark!!!

  32. 82

    Hey now, I resemble that remark!!!

    Just mention “‘Been that long since I kissed my last ass”,, then closely note the trog’s burrhead kwaffurre :em03:

  33. 83
    LC Gunsniper says:

    Sorry, dude, but it is YOU who apparently are wrong. EVERYTHING was collected, according to one who was actually in the know. (of course you will now spend the next three days explaining how this guy was NOT a NSA Analyst and/or a traitor for spilling the fact that OUR GOVERNMENT was breaking the law (yes, that same 4th Amendment, Jay)

    So heresy from a single source is as good as a conviction, eh? So long as it is what you want to here apparently so.

    Still bullshit.

  34. 84
    LC Gunsniper says:

    Oh, forgot to mention that.

    :em01: MSNBC :em01:

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