Just wondering about stuff… 9/11

conspiracy
I hope everyone had a good and safe Independence Day.

I’m enjoying my Sunday on the back deck, drinking Crown and listening to some old classic rock.

Oh and much to the chagrin of my lovely, beautiful, wonderful, caring, forgiving wife I am the proud owner of a motorcycle.

It’s a beast, old 1982 Kawasaki KZ1100 cruising bike. Have not been on a motorcycle in 20 years, but could not resist.
Been enjoying just simply riding around the neighborhood for now. Will use it for trips to and from work and rides on the back roads here in Northeast Kansas.
I have a whopping five minute commute through some nice neighborhoods to work.
Love living in Lawrence.
So it has been an interesting weekend.

But seriously now folks, I need the Rott Empire’s help here.

As I am dozing off relaxing at a friends home (many may know John Donavan from Castle Arrghhh).
I’m enjoying cool day on the deck as the folks fire some guns, I shoot for a bit too.

While we take a break I listen to my daughter-in-law and young friend talk about 9/11.

Long story short basically this young man STILL believes that the government did it and also says that there are “mountains” of evidence supporting this claim.

Now I will say I had a few drinks and was relaxed, eyes closed, and what I heard likely was complete bullshit all verbal diarrhea designed to arouse my usual response that I have towards folks who talk crazy shit due to having been deprived of brain cells due to excess alcohol or drug consumption or those who have little or no common sense.

Little background, former Air Force and former professional eavesdropper overseas.
Had one of the highest security clearances you can obtain. So I’m not ignorant of government “secrecy” So unless things have changes precipitously I not only doubt that the government could pull off such an act, I always consider basic human nature. To pull off such an endeavor would require a lot of folks keeping their fucken mouths shut. NOW MANY YEARS LATER!
But this is not about my opinion on 9/11 or any thoughtful analysis. My question to you folks is
how do you address folks who STILL believe that 9/11 was some government conspiracy?
I need to scan this blogs archives to see if there were prior discussion here but if someone here has a website link, information they have read other than the obvious stuff (Popular Mechanics article) how do you engage in a conversation with an individual with such beliefs…. OR DO YOU?

I’m thinking maybe they were trying to screw with me so this could all be a big joke on me.

However I once had a conversation with an individual on global warming and as she was delivering to me some left wing propaganda on the issue I proceeded to ask her a simple question.
I asked her if she had ever flown on an airplane and she indicated that she did. I then asked her to imagine as she looked out the window of an aircraft looking over the landscape that every single barbecue grill in the country were roasting some sort of dead flesh all at the same time. (we were grilling steaks at the time) I asked how much does that contribute to global warming? She went on and on about the dangers of various emissions from car, boats, lawn mowers and backyard grills all shit you likely would read on the Daily Kos or something and I just smiled and was thinking am I on some Candid Camera show or what?

I then asked, if she was aware of the recent volcano (this was awhile ago and at the time there was a big eruption that was in the news) I then said to her “do you realize that if what you said were true then we should die any day now” she replied why? Because that one volcano will spew out more crap in a single eruption than all the barbecue grills in the world combined trillions of times over.

She gave me this perplexed look and pondered for awhile and finally said “well, hmmm.”

Now folks I’m no scientist, I may have heard that from somewhere I don’t know but without concrete evidence of that fact I would say it is closer to the truth than not.
Now I think I’m a pretty smart dude but if there were a ranking for smartness I’d be in the upper middle somewhere. However when it comes to common fucken sense I’d bet a case of beer that I’d be in the top 1 percent.

What leaves some folks seriously deficient of common sense? But don’t answer that!

This is about 9/11, government conspiracy. What do you folks say (if anything) to someone who still holds these beliefs?
I deleted my old blog so my library of links and info are gone. I would like to get a collection of good material and create a blog category and post on my site.

So the next time I hear 9/11 government conspiracy rhetoric I can say “read this.”

However as many of you know no amount of evidence or fact can separate a stubborn man or woman from their opinions or beliefs and lack of common sense is almost always the culprit.

196 comments

  1. 151
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    A pirate walks into a bar and the bartender says, “Hey Terry! I haven’t seen
    you in a while. What happened ? You look terrible.”

    “What do you mean ?” Said the pirate. “I feel fine.”

    “What about the wooden leg ? You didn’t have that the last time you were in
    here.” Said the bartender, as he poured him a large draft.

    ”We were in a battle and I got hit with a cannon blast that clipped my left leg
    clean off at the knee joint, but I’m fine now.” Said the thirsty pirate.

    “OK, but what about that hook ? What happened to your hand man ?”

    “That was another battle entirely. We boarded a ship and I got into a vicious
    masheti fight. My right hand was cut off at the wrist, so I got fitted with a hook,
    but I’m just fine now, really.”

    ” & What about that eye patch ? Was that from the cannon blast ?” Asked
    the sympathetic bartender.

    “No.” Said the pirate quietly. “That was an accident. We were at sea and
    a large flock of birds flew over us. I looked up at the wrong moment, and
    one of them shit right in my left in eye.”

    “You’re kidding.” Said the astonished bartender. “You lost an eye from bird poop ?”

    “Well no, not exactly.” Said the blushing pirate. “It was the first day with my new hook.”

  2. 152
    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. says:

    Terry Conspiracy sez:

    In regards to VonZorch Imperial Researcher’s comment @ :
    VonZorch Imperial Researcher sez:
    Terry Conspiracy sez:
    In regards to Dragineez’s comment @ :
    Well, one of the big reasons to talk about the melting point of steel, is that there is so much physical evidence & eye witness testimony to steel being red, glowing & molten in the rubble of all three WTC buildings. Where did the fuel come from to generate the high temperatures necessary to melt steel once it was under the “pile”. I am not saying I have the answer, but I am saying the question is valid.
    How about the 23,980 gallons of jet fuel with about 72,000 btu per gallon. Thats a lot of heat.
    Damn and here I’m trying to reason with a sub-sentient.

    Most of that fuel went up in a big fire ball on the outside of the building. Even the fuel inside the building would have all been consumed in 5 or 10 minutes tops.
    Kerosene can not burn hot enough to explain molten metal, even under ideal conditions, this is not the explanation for red hot & molten metal in the “pile”.

    *deep sigh*

    Just a few points here. Yes, Kerosene CAN burn hot enough to melt steel. Ever hear of a “blow torch”? I’m not talking about a Bernz-O-Matic here, but the old-fashioned burner-on-a-steel-can-full-of-kerosene type. (Like you might see in old movies from the ’30’s.)

    They used to use them to weld steel, you see. Hell, *I* have used one to weld steel before! (the things you do just to have fun with old technology…) And to WELD steel, you see, you have to melt it.

    Output is around 5000F, WELL over the melting point of even “Abrasion Resisting” alloys such as AR 500. (Which is what one finds on the outside of things, like, say, tanks…)

    A few other details to consider when you talk about things being “dust”.

    Calculate the kinetic energy of a single floor slab falling into the next. And those two falling into another, and those three, then four, then five…

    (That first one “made major” in about .005mm, from there on out, it was just stacking…)

    Personally, I would need to fire up Catia to even get started, and I think it would choke somewhere around the second collision.

    This kinetic energy has a secondary effect…

    Ever heard of compression heating? No? Funny, every internal combustion engine takes advantage of it. Diesels especially, they don’t run without it.

    Some other considerations. You keep referring to some hallucinated substance called “nano-thermite”.

    I am presuming this piece of drug-fueled paranoid fantasy is due to the presence of aluminum oxide dust in the debris…

    Hello! McFly! How about you LEARN a little bit about “construction steel” before regurgitating this crap?

    The steel sheet used in construction is not “bare” steel. It is called “aluminum killed”. It has this designation because, in the final finishing portion of the rolling process, (“aluminum killed” is considered “cold rolled”, although it really isn’t “cold” during the final stages, it’s just that “hot rolled” is still incandescent when it is considered “finished”), it has been coated with a layer of nearly pure aluminum which is then finish rolled onto the surface.

    This is done for the reason that, (amazingly enough), pure aluminum is HIGHLY reactive with oxygen. In fact, it will oxidize, (rust), almost instantaneously on contact with any compound containing oxygen. (Read: AIR!)

    However, once the upper layer, (just a few molecules thick), has oxidized, it STOPS.

    This has two major benefits. One, it provides an excellent surface for coating, (paint). Two, it KEEPS THE STEEL BENEATH IT FROM RUSTING. (That’s the biggy, right there…)

    The ratio of weight between the two, (the steel alloy, IIRC, in the WTC shell it was A-572 Gr80, and the aluminum), varies by thickness, but in a .185 nominal thickness, it is approximately ten(10) pounds of aluminum per ton of sheet, and the weight is considered part of the steel, not a separate add-in.

    From there, it is a relatively simple exercise to take the number of tons of sheet steel used in the construction of the buildings, and multiply times ten (10), divide by two thousand (2000), add in the airframe weights of the jetliners, and arrive at the number of TONS of aluminum that were in that mess.

    In short, stop being a paranoid no-nothing prat, extract your cranium from your rectal cavity, (with a hydraulic press, if necessary!), and LEARN something!

  3. 153
    LC hilljohnny says:

    Terry Conspiracy sez:

    One of the great lies of 9/11 was the cell phone calls from the planes. This is a technological impossibility.

    interesting comment here. as a cell phone technician i can tell you that reception varies depending on your height above obstacles, it gets better.
    in a city the buildings will reduce the range a phone can get out to a few hundred yards but over flat ground it can reach over 45 miles. as you get higher above the ground your range increases. 30,000 feet is about 5 miles up which gives you an easy line of sight to any cell tower within 50 miles.
    when i was working for cellular one we had a problem with a competitor 30 miles away who had boosted their signal to “hijack” our customers calls to get the roaming fees. took a two year lawsuit to get them to turn down their signal. at the time we had to program the phones to ignore outside signals (home only) and warn our customers to reset the phones to roam when out of town. our phones at that time were analog and had a 1 watt max output. they could easily be used out to 25 miles and sometimes up to 40 miles out of town and we do not live in flat territory.
    cell phones were not banned on commercial flights because they did not work, but so the airlines could charge to use their cell phones.

  4. 154
    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. says:

    In regards to Terry Conspiracy’s comment @ :
    Concerning cell phones…

    Funnily enough, I fired up my phone at cruising altitude on my last flight to the West coast. (I wanted to show someone a picture on it in flight), and, before I could put it in “non broadcast mode”, it connected with full service. I believe we were over Fresno at the time…

    Of course, it WAS in analog mode. (By default. I spend quite a bit of time in places that are a LONG way from cell towers…)

    Edit: GMTA, hilljonny. And I had wondered what the real ranges were to the towers…

  5. 155
    LC hilljohnny says:

    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. sez:

    And I had wondered what the real ranges were to the towers…

    the tower range is not the problem, it’s the phones range that matters. digital phones have a max output of 600 milliwatts or 6/10s that of an analog phone. the digital has better range because it does not clip the audio at max output. if you have any signal a digital will give better performance but an analog being stronger may reach a a bit further. if the tower is in direct line of sight either type phone will work.
    ot a 1/4 watt shortwave using morse can reach halfway around the world under the right conditions. sometimes at night i listen to stations in Australia on my shortwave. once i was in Richmond Va. and talked to a man in Huston Tx. using my 10 watt cb radio. radio is a tricky thing. i have seen my cell signal drop from max to zero while i was about 500 yards from the tower because a cold front was moving through.

  6. 156
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    In regards to Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P.’s comment @ :

    Blowtorches ? We are talking possible explanations for all the “molten metal” in the pile at the WTC clean up sight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YaFGSPErKU

    Look at these images & see what you can think of that could explain it better that NIST did.

    They chose not to look, just so that they could say they did not see anything.

  7. 157
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    LC hilljohnny sez:

    Terry Conspiracy sez:
    One of the great lies of 9/11 was the cell phone calls from the planes. This is a technological impossibility.
    interesting comment here. as a cell phone technician i can tell you that reception varies depending on your height above obstacles, it gets better.
    in a city the buildings will reduce the range a phone can get out to a few hundred yards but over flat ground it can reach over 45 miles. as you get higher above the ground your range increases. 30,000 feet is about 5 miles up which gives you an easy line of sight to any cell tower within 50 miles.
    when i was working for cellular one we had a problem with a competitor 30 miles away who had boosted their signal to “hijack” our customers calls to get the roaming fees. took a two year lawsuit to get them to turn down their signal. at the time we had to program the phones to ignore outside signals (home only) and warn our customers to reset the phones to roam when out of town. our phones at that time were analog and had a 1 watt max output. they could easily be used out to 25 miles and sometimes up to 40 miles out of town and we do not live in flat territory.
    cell phones were not banned on commercial flights because they did not work, but so the airlines could charge to use their cell phones.

    Interesting to get a chance to talk to you about this. Isn’t it true that cell phone towers are directional & that they do not project a signal upward very high at all ? From what you have said, some people might get the impression that signals from cell phones could be reaching several miles above the earth. & that is just not true, is it ?

  8. 158
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. sez:

    In regards to Terry Conspiracy’s comment @ :
    Concerning cell phones…
    Funnily enough, I fired up my phone at cruising altitude on my last flight to the West coast. (I wanted to show someone a picture on it in flight), and, before I could put it in “non broadcast mode”, it connected with full service. I believe we were over Fresno at the time…
    Of course, it WAS in analog mode. (By default. I spend quite a bit of time in places that are a LONG way from cell towers…)
    Edit: GMTA, hilljonny. And I had wondered what the real ranges were to the towers…

    That would have to be a rare reflected signal connection, how long did it last ? I am very sure the signals are directed horizontally & “not” vertically. Dial 611 on your cell & ask for Tech Service they will give you the answer for your area, but all the towers should be the same.

  9. 159
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    In regards to LC hilljohnny’s comment @ :
    Right, reflections & weather are factors that can cause strange things to happen, but I do not think there are very many towers directing signals up, they aim at the horizons.

  10. 160
    Elephant Man says:

    In short, stop being a paranoid no-nothing prat, extract your cranium from your rectal cavity, (with a hydraulic press, if necessary!), and LEARN something!

    Guido, the thing is…… he can’t stop.

    Terry has nothing else.

    No matter what facts are posted debunking his cherished “theories”, he’ll ignore them and just continue to prattle on with pseudo-scientific nonsense.

    Here are two articles that will give some insight into Terry’s mind:

    Conspiracy theories: Epistemology and entertainment

    Two “money quotes” from the above link:

    The belief that a secret, almost all-powerful human elite conspires to subdue the human masses for the sake of own profit is a variation on the theme of Satanic corruption.

    This conspiracy nonsense is a “religion” to Terry and like any “true believer” he will not be swayed.

    In true form, a conspiracy theory includes the eschatological idea that at some point-usually assumed to be within the lifetime of its proponents, the whole scheme will be evident to everyone. The theorists will then be exalted for their foresight and the rest of us will be humbled.

    Terry does have a “fundamentally narcissistic mindset” .

    Conspiracy Theories Explained

    A “money” quote:

    Paranoid schizophrenics are prone to delusions, tales in which random events become deeply meaningful. Some believe in complex conspiracies; others think they are Jesus Christ.

    Pretty much says it all, doesn’t it?

  11. 161
    Wreckerboy says:

    In regards to Terry, yes my betters are handing you your ass I will leave it to them. You how ever are not even in the same class. And the last person to call me “little man” is still looking for his teeth. And yes when words fail me I don’t give a shit. Lead. follow, or get the fuck outta my way. That is why I wear scars not stripes. And as to the “blue pill” I have to eat 5 or 6 of them just to get mellow. I have dropped turds smarter than you. So do us all a favor hang your self when you beat off. IFFIN NOT ROTTIES keep it up. WOOF.

  12. 162
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    Wreckerboy sez:

    In regards to Terry, yes my betters are handing you your ass I will leave it to them. You how ever are not even in the same class. And the last person to call me “little man” is still looking for his teeth. And yes when words fail me I don’t give a shit. Lead. follow, or get the fuck outta my way. That is why I wear scars not stripes. And as to the “blue pill” I have to eat 5 or 6 of them just to get mellow. I have dropped turds smarter than you. So do us all a favor hang your self when you beat off. IFFIN NOT ROTTIES keep it up. WOOF.

    Good dog ! :em72: :em69:

  13. 163
    GamerFromJump says:

    We’re coming up to the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 mission; be prepared for the “Mooners” (the lunar landings were faked, a la “Capricorn One”) to get plenty of face time on TV.

    Take a lesson from Buzz Aldrin on how to deal with that noise.

    *Mortal Kombat guy voice*

    BUZZ ALDRIN WINS
    FLAWLESS VICTORY

  14. 164
    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. says:

    Terry Conspiracy sez:

    Kerosene can not burn hot enough to explain molten metal, even under ideal conditions, this is not the explanation for red hot & molten metal in the “pile”.

    THIS is what I was referring to.

    Do not make blanket statements which are incorrect. Yes, kerosene will melt steel.

    In other words, I have just pulled a major “fact” of yours and shown it to be incorrect. You might take this opportunity to review a few of your other misconceptions and misperceptions, (e.g. “what happened to the concrete?”, since poured in place concrete has effectively zero strength except under compression… Gee, do ya think it might have broken up when flexed beyond it’s (very small) limits of distortion?)

    (See also: “Compression Heating”)

    In other words, if you accept blindly whatever some other conspiracy theorists spout from the depths of their paranoid delusional state, without checking the facts behind their claims, you are also a deluded idiot.

    As previously suggested, pull your head out of your ass, take a deep breath, and learn. Until you can manage those three steps, in order, kindly keep your purblind puling to yourself.

  15. 165
    Dragineez says:

    LC 0311 crunchie I.M.H. sez:

    Dude, did you know that Lee Harvey Oswald once ate a Rothschild candy! Research for yourself and see the TWOOF! That proves that the Rothschild’s were pulling the strings. I bet if you checked the internets from 1865 and 1914 you’d find that both Booth and Principe had tasted the sweet nectar that is Rothschild candy. That’s incontrovertible twoof of a conspiracy right there!

    I think you’re on to something there. Because, everybody knows, it’s a lack of Pirates that cause global warming! It must be twoof since, as we know, the number of pirates is increasing and global temperatures are decreasing. A perfect inverse correlation!

  16. 166
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter says:

    I spent the better part of two days trying to dig up Bill Whittle’s response to such idiocy. I read it in Silent America. Unfortunately, I loaned my copy to a twoofer and never got it back. I can dam well guarantee you the book will creak in anticipation when I do. I could ask my dear old mudder for the copy I got for her, but it ain’t worth it.

    To believe all those firemen, cops and soldiers at the Pentagon were all sacrificed for some evil government plot when bin Laden himself claimed to have done it, is not worth arguing. It’s a lie. A damned lie. And anyone who has a shred of evidence should bring it to the proper authorities at once. I’m not talking about something you read on the interwebtubes. I mean evidence. Everything else is just bullshit from some idiot that thinks Apollo 11 never landed on the moon.

    As for the decking, the concrete is poured on 4 x 8 sheets of galvanized or steel pans. Sometimes they put 6″ x 6″ 10 gauge reinforcing wire in the concrete, and sometimes not. Over the course of years the pan corrodes and leaves just the concrete which becomes supported by the steel I-beams at 10′ x 10′ of maybe 12′ x 12′. That concrete, mind you has to be pumped up to the floor through a five inch pipe thru your elevator shaft. It takes water to pump that concrete up 100 floors. More water means less strength. I’d be surprised to see a piece of concrete floor bigger than a quarter.

    Now, remember, bin Laden knows this; He is a trained engineer. You, on the other hand, have no first hand knowledge nor the experience to justify any of your assertions. Thus, you are merely perpetuating a lie. That is more onerous than the lie itself.

  17. 167
    LC hilljohnny says:

    Terry Conspiracy sez:

    Isn’t it true that cell phone towers are directional & that they do not project a signal upward very high at all ? From what you have said, some people might get the impression that signals from cell phones could be reaching several miles above the earth. & that is just not true, is it

    to understand this better take a beachball and balance a ruler on it. the beam from the cell tower is focused to be parallel to the ground but it does not curve to follow the ground. a flashlight beam in a smokey room will give you a visual of how the beam spreads. back to the ruler, it does not follow the curve of the ball, it’s ends may be as much as an inch above the ball. the cell tower beam does the same spreading out like the flashlight beam to maintain a usable signal on the ground that is “falling” away from the line of sight of the tower. even if it did not spread upward at all the straight line from the tower would be several miles up after 50 miles. if you had a beam like a laser it would look like the ruler, going off into space and useless to people on the ground.

  18. 168

    ‘Got to agree that it’s a big ‘ol conspiracy,,, generated by obsessed conspiracists.
    If the factors mentioned by others and m’self are routinely trivialized or ignored, as critical as they may be to understanding the grand scenario, then we know for sure that the onus is on confusion, not illumination.

    Viva la conspiracia!
    Viva la conspiracistas!
    Viva la Caca!

  19. 169
    WayneB says:

    In regards to LC hilljohnny’s comment @ :

    the cell tower beam does the same spreading out like the flashlight beam to maintain a usable signal on the ground that is “falling” away from the line of sight of the tower. even if it did not spread upward at all the straight line from the tower would be several miles up after 50 miles. if you had a beam like a laser it would look like the ruler, going off into space and useless to people on the ground.

    In addition to that, microwaves are really hard to focus using the kind of transmitters they use on the cell towers, and it would be self-defeating anyway, because the more you focus the beam, the more transmitters would have to be used to get full-circle coverage. Thus, the actual beam comes out in a fairly wide fan-shape. If there are, say, 6 transmitters on top of the tower, then each beam would have to cover at least 60 degrees, and probably more, to be sure of not having gaps in between.

    Now, take a piece of graph paper and draw a line, then draw another line at an inclination of 30 degrees (half the 60 degree coverage I mentioned), and see how fast it rises. It goes up as the tangent of 30 degrees, or 0.577. This means that, for each mile away from the tower, the beam would be just over a half mile higher. In 10 miles, the beam would reach over 5 miles high.

    On top of all that, the IEEE did a study in 2006 and reported that, in violation of both FAA and FCC rules (because of fears of interference with aircraft electronics), passengers were using cellphones on planes an average of once per flight.

  20. 170
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. sez:

    concrete has effectively zero strength except under compression…

    “concrete has effectively zero strength except under compression…” Pancake floor compression is where this stuff shines, The floors were all 100% corrugated steel with a 4 inch concrete top coat.

    That stuff should have all ended up as one big lump at the bottom Guido. We should have seen 110 slabs of steel & concrete flooring at the bottom, but we didn’t. All the concrete had turned to dust in the kind of disaster that should have kept everything locked in place through the action of rapid & intense compression.

    Everything turned to dust “before” it smashed into the ground. 700 bone fragments were on the rooftops.

    We need a better explanation than blowtorches man.

    Everything the MSM & the government told us is wrong.

    Think about it.

  21. 171
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    In regards to Dragineez’s comment @ :
    LC hilljohnny sez:

    Terry Conspiracy sez:
    Isn’t it true that cell phone towers are directional & that they do not project a signal upward very high at all ? From what you have said, some people might get the impression that signals from cell phones could be reaching several miles above the earth. & that is just not true, is it
    to understand this better take a beachball and balance a ruler on it. the beam from the cell tower is focused to be parallel to the ground but it does not curve to follow the ground. a flashlight beam in a smokey room will give you a visual of how the beam spreads. back to the ruler, it does not follow the curve of the ball, it’s ends may be as much as an inch above the ball. the cell tower beam does the same spreading out like the flashlight beam to maintain a usable signal on the ground that is “falling” away from the line of sight of the tower. even if it did not spread upward at all the straight line from the tower would be several miles up after 50 miles. if you had a beam like a laser it would look like the ruler, going off into space and useless to people on the ground.

    I will take this to mean that the information I have, that cell phone signals will work at 2,000 ft. but not very well at all at 8,000 ft. & would be technologically “not possible” at 20,000 or 30,000+ ft.

    I hope you have some history with this pack HillJohnny, because these guys will accuse me of bringing in a ringer if you don’t.

    What was going through your mind when you saw the government story of more than a dozen high altitude cell calls ? One dude on flight 93 made 4 of them himself. Some of them have been recorded, & they are all strong unbroken signals that last for minutes.

    I am not saying that I have all the answers, but the questions are valid.

  22. 172
    Terry Conspiracy says:

    In regards to WayneB’s comment @ :
    “one per flight”, That would probably be tarmac use. I fly 3 or 4 times a year & I have never heard a cell phone ring while in flight.

  23. 173

    Terry, yer a moron, and a liar. You stated several times to the pups that if they proved you wrong you would listen. They have proven you wrong on several of your “facts”, just a few right off the top of my head;

    1. Cell phones don’t work at 30,000 feet. You were shown conclusively, if you had bothered actually reading the very well informed and superbly written comments, that they do in fact work well at that altitude, and exactly why. Instead you try and claim the science of microwave transmissions actually proves your point, when anyone with the IQ of a retarded amoeba can see the opposite is true.

    2. Corrugated steel under the concrete slabs. It was explained that the steel rusts away from the concrete. You completely ignored that and restated your fallacy.

    So either you are a liar when you stated you would listen if proven wrong, or you are too fucking Stoooooopid (Capital S, multiple oooooo) to see that you are an idiot who believes total crap.

    Are you really so insecure in your life that you have to cling to the notion that you are part of a tiny, intillectual elite who are the only ones who see the truth that the rest of us do not?

    Man, use your allowance and buy a piece of ass from one of your moms co-workers so you can gain at least a modicum of self esteem.

  24. 174

    “one per flight”, That would probably be tarmac use. I fly 3 or 4 times a year & I have never heard a cell phone ring while in flight.

    And that proves what?! You are an idiot. By that logic, since I’ve never seen the bottom of teh Marianas Trench, it must not exist.

    I have seen people use cell phones on flights, several times. Just because you haven’t don’t mean shit. Pretty much like everything else you’ve said.

  25. 175
    Cricket says:

    No, there are no satellites circling the earth to route calls and no signals being sent from them. Not.a.one.

    There are no global satellite cell phones. The last time I flew the attendants asked the passengers to ‘wait until they were in level flight to use their phones and laptops.’ This was a flight from Atlanta to Denver.

  26. 176

    Terry Conspiracy sez:

    We should have seen 110 slabs of steel & concrete flooring at the bottom, but we didn’t. All the concrete had turned to dust in the kind of disaster that should have kept everything locked in place through the action of rapid & intense compression.

    Seems to me that you are assuming that the floors were well-made. They may have been poorly made. I’ve seen plenty of concrete come apart with regular use.

    Terry Conspiracy sez:

    I hope you have some history with this pack HillJohnny, because these guys will accuse me of bringing in a ringer if you don’t.

    He does, and if you don’t want the pack turnin’ on ya any more than they are now, you’d best not attack one of the regulars.

    I am beginning to think that this troll was planted by management so’s we’d have something to chew on besides DJ.

  27. 177

    Cricket sez:

    No, there are no satellites circling the earth to route calls and no signals being sent from them. Not.a.one.
    There are no global satellite cell phones. The last time I flew the attendants asked the passengers to ‘wait until they were in level flight to use their phones and laptops.’ This was a flight from Atlanta to Denver.

    Cricket, what would an experienced flight attendant know that a wanker troll wouldn’t?

  28. 178
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter says:

    Terry Conspiracy-

    The floors were all 100% corrugated steel with a 4 inch concrete top coat.

    Perhaps I didn’t make that part clear. The pans are placed on the steel I-beams and screwed together. Once together, a single pan will hold up a worker long enough to get the concrete flat. The concrete is rarely polished as the mastic for the carpet sticks better to “floated” not troweled surfaces. The depressions in the corrugated are about an inch and a half. If you get another inch and a half of concrete on top of that you are doing good. Remember- these steel pans are placed dead level, where the floor might require pitch depending on what it will be used for. That reduces even more the thickness of the concrete. Rarely will you find a floor with 4 inches of concrete. 4 inches of concrete with a laborer on top becomes unstable and can fold up. Also, you should be aware the steel pan, as I said before starts to rust as soon as the concrete hits it. After so many years the pans erode away to nothing.

    Been there, got the photos to prove it.

  29. 179
    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove says:

    “one per flight”, That would probably be tarmac use. I fly 3 or 4 times a year & I have never heard a cell phone ring while in flight.

    So we can add deaf to moron, idiot, waste of bandwidth, gullible, supurating sore on the ass of humanity, cankled cock sock, festering pustule on the cranium of wisdom, jackass, dumbass, …….

    Man. 179 posts on this worthless sack of shit. Rotties need some new shoes trolls!!!!!!!

    Beer run, gotta go. You get the picture.

  30. 180

    LC SkyeChild G.L.O.R., Imperial Grammar Hun sez:

    I am beginning to think that this troll was planted by management so’s we’d have something to chew on besides DJ.

    Oh trust me Skye, we’d deserve an ass kicking of immense proportions if we couldn’t do better than this piddly pud tugger.

  31. 181
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter says:

    I have never heard a cell phone ring while in flight.

    Dude, I recall flying and there was a phone right in front of your seat, above the tray where some people change diapers and you put your drink and peanuts. It was called Airfone. Their operators recorded calls from these flights.

  32. 182
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter says:

    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove-

    Beer run, gotta go. You get the picture.

    “Hello Pizza joint? I’ll have a small cheese pizza and a case of Sam Adams. Delivered, please.”

    Sheesh. I gotta teach you guys everything.

  33. 183
    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove says:

    above the tray where some people change diapers and you put your drink and peanuts

    no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no NO!

    I will never again order a drink OR eat airline peanuts!!!!!

  34. 184
    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. says:

    In regards to L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter’s comment @ 184 :
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter sez:

    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove-
    Beer run, gotta go. You get the picture.
    “Hello Pizza joint? I’ll have a small cheese pizza and a case of Sam Adams. Delivered, please.”

    Sheesh. I gotta teach you guys everything.

    Never know, he might be in one o’ them places that has Them Shia Baptists…

    No beer deliveries with them around, yer knows…

  35. 185
    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove says:

    “Hello Pizza joint? I’ll have a small cheese pizza and a case of Sam Adams. Delivered, please.”

    Sorry Mope,

    Till I find a pizza joint that makes AND delivers gluten free pizza and gluten free beer (under $100) I gotta do it myself. Celiac disease and all.

  36. 186
    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. says:

    In regards to LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove’s comment @ :
    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove sez:

    above the tray where some people change diapers and you put your drink and peanuts
    no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no NO!
    I will never again order a drink OR eat airline peanuts!!!!!

    A lot of airlines are not selling peanuts anymore, R6.

    Afraid of lawsuits from some idiot parent whose offspring might have a peanut allergy… And that won’t do anything about de-sensitizing their child…

  37. 187
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter says:

    Ranger Danger-

    Till I find a pizza joint that makes AND delivers gluten free pizza and gluten free beer (under $100) I gotta do it myself. Celiac disease and all.

    That’s where you have trouble metabolizing wheat, right? Get yerself a potato grater and a big ol’ fry pan. Shred the ‘tater and toss it in oil in the pan. Next, order the pizza and when it arrives take a 16″ cement trowel and scrape the good stuff off the pizza. It probably crap anyway. Toss it on the fried potato. It’s like a Polish pizza, only different.

    Guid-ster-

    Afraid of lawsuits from some idiot parent whose offspring might have a peanut allergy… And that won’t do anything about de-sensitizing their child…

    If they kept the brats ass of my peanut tray, the little bastard might not get a peanut allergy. Ever think of that?

  38. 188
    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove says:

    That’s where you have trouble metabolizing wheat, right? Get yerself a potato grater and a big ol’ fry pan. Shred the ‘tater and toss it in oil in the pan. Next, order the pizza and when it arrives take a 16? cement trowel and scrape the good stuff off the pizza. It probably crap anyway. Toss it on the fried potato. It’s like a Polish pizza, only different.

    Naw Mope, it’s a toxicity to gluten (wheat being a big part). We can’t even eat stuff that we cook ourselves that was processed in a factory that processes stuff with gluten in it.

    Although the 16″ cement trowel sounds tasty.

    :em93:

  39. 189
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter says:

    Dayum, Ranger-

    We can’t even eat stuff that we cook ourselves that was processed in a factory that processes stuff with gluten in it.

    I hope beer ain’t got that there gluten in it.

  40. 190

    In regards to L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter’s comment @ :
    Here is bill’s article: Seeing the Unseen, Part Two.

    Thanks to the Wayback Machine

  41. 191
    L.C. Mope, Imperial Offsetter says:

    Thanks, Random, I looked for two days for that.

  42. 192

    No problem. I had reason to look it up a week or so ago and just remembered where I found it. Since I fucked up the archives to my own pathetic excuse for a blog, Wayback is the only record of my own past posts. Naturally, when the arrchives at Whittle’s new digs at Pajamas Media came up with only a paragraph, I thought of Wayback.
    I think the money quote to apply to TC is:

    I’ve met a number of these people. I know this is harsh, but I’m sick of watching the damage they are doing to this civilization: these people are, to a man, complete losers. Losers. They are desperate and sad people who need to believe in some dark secret to give meaning to their lives.

    Poor Terry is lost. Pity it, and try to minimize it’s damage to others.

  43. 193
    Elephant Man says:

    Poor Terry is lost. Pity it, and try to minimize it’s damage to others.

    Perhaps we should study it as well as pity it.

    He/it could be like our own version of a “virtual pet”.

    His endless repetitive blather does remind me of a hamster running on its wheel….

  44. 194
    WayneB says:

    *Sigh* I shouldn’t bother, but:

    “one per flight”, That would probably be tarmac use. I fly 3 or 4 times a year & I have never heard a cell phone ring while in flight.

    If you read the article, they didn’t count calls from the tarmac, and specified that several of them were during the takeoff and landing procedures, which are particularly hazardous if the electronics get interfered with.

    Also:

    That stuff should have all ended up as one big lump at the bottom Guido. We should have seen 110 slabs of steel & concrete flooring at the bottom, but we didn’t. All the concrete had turned to dust in the kind of disaster that should have kept everything locked in place through the action of rapid & intense compression.

    Sheesh. Do you actually listen to yourself? Have you given ANY thought to the forces at work here? Concrete may have compression strength, but high-force impacts are different. Yes, you can pile up tons of mass on concrete, but an impact causes shattering. Small impacts like a sledgehammer cause localized shattering, and cavitation. Large-scale impacts cause pulverization. When one floor impacted another, the concrete shattered, pulverized, and blew out in the wind created by enormous weight forcing it to move laterally.

    As I stated before, the published mass of the WTC was 400,000 tons. If that was for both towers, then each was about 200,000 tons. Now, that would be an average of 2,000 tons/floor, but upper floors would be lighter due to not having to carry so much load, so let’s say top 30 floors were 1,000 tons/floor. So at each floor, you have the force of 1,000 tons X the number of floors, striking after a 3m drop from the floor above.

    That wind I mentioned above? It would pick up objects you would never believe could be moved about by air, because it would be under tremendous pressure after a couple of floors came in, and it would also buckle the floor below it from the increased pressure, weakening the integrity of the floor. As it was forced out the sides, it would throw debris about like a tornado. We’re probably lucky that the top floors tilted a little before they collapsed, because if it really had come down flat, there would have probably been shrapnel damage 10 blocks away.

  45. 195
    Princess Natasha, Decadent Delicious Deviant says:

    Thank you, all you resident engineers, construction workers, and other real professionals, for schooling some little “humanities” wanker, with a tiny brain but a runaway imagination not grounded in any real knowledge. It kills me when people who have never studied physics, advanced math, engineering, or just worked in construction, pontificate about structural damage, impact on various materials, and other “hard-science” stuff.
    You know, I love a good conspiracy theory, if not for anything else, then for entertainment value. But this is just utter nonsense. A suggestion for would-be conspiracy theorists trying to take a shot at 9-11: take some Engineering classes. Just basic stuff, nothing fancy, about freshman-sophomore level. Until then, please keep your yaps shut because you sound illiterate and idiotic. There is nothing more pathetic than some “liberal-farts” flunky trying to talk about technology, structures, materials strength and mechanics. Rosie O’Donuts comes to mind… :em41:

    (Can we possibly have a smiley wearing a dunce-cap?)

  46. 196

    You know, I love a good conspiracy theory, if not for anything else, then for entertainment value.

    I hear that, Princess, chew ’em ’till the flavor’s gone.
    My personal appearance doesn’t leave many folks with the first blush notion, but structural steel, glass and cement has been my swamp for decades.

    I know why they stand, sink, leak, tilt or fart.

    When the “evidence” demands to explore areas and conditions that either omit the obvious or simply do not exist ( load bearing walls,, in a tower frame! HAR!) ,, then it’s Clobberin’ Time.

    It’s getting harder as I age to quietly treat the condescending assholes as “thinking folks”.

    I’s never that good an actor anyway, guess that’s why I’m here.

    Bullshidters will never get their bettin’ money out.

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