The 2nd Amendment In the Buckeye State

On Tuesday March 17th a man in Parma Ohio walks into a Taco Bell to get his evenings dinner. Future gastrointestinal distress aside, a perfectly normal occurrence right? Well the man in question, Bill Carlisle, was exercising his 2nd Amendment right and carrying a Glock 21. Mr. Carlisle has not yet received his Concealed Firearms license, so in order to comply with Ohio’s laws he was openly carrying the pistol in a holster on his hip. Mr. Carlisle ordered his food, paid for it and made small talk with the Taco Bell staff, ate and left.

Cue the Gun Fearing Wussies.

Apparently a man eating his dinner while carrying a pistol caused a bad case of the vapors in at least one hoplophobic casteratti who called the Parma Police. Not sure when he decided to call them, but considering that they didn’t detain Carlisle until after he had left the store, either they have an abysmal response time or the call wasn’t exactly made as a robbery in progress. Mr. Carlisle was stopped, ran for felonies or warrants, and detained until the officers could verify with a supervisor that open carry was in fact legal.

Now, I don’t have any particular vitriol towards the officers, other than them not knowing that open carry was legal. A pretty important thing I’m sure they covered in Law 1 at the academy. They conducted themselves well, were courteous, as was Mr. Carlisle, did their job, and released him. But not knowing that it was legal to carry openly is pretty inexcusable. If you listen to the tape recording of the stop made by Mr. Carlisle, you will hear him say that he carries all the time and that the local sheriff deputies had seen him and not felt the need to question him. So apparently it’s not like the law is buried deep in the arcane legalese of Ohio Code. But there is a serious problem here in that the state attorney general has not made it clear to all LEO’s that open carry is in fact legal. Because of that ignorance of the law, a citizen engaged in a perfectly legal activity was detained for more than 20 minutes. That issue can be addressed through better training for the Ohio LEO’s.

No, where the real problem is here, is in the purely paranoid call made by the reporting party. I’m sure that he was quaking over his chalupa (and not as a result of the food), and pissing his pants as he waited for the evil gun to jump out of it’s holster and go on a murderous rampage. It is just further proof of the mindset of the gun fearing wussies that any person with a gun is a criminal, regardless of their actions. I was born in Ohio and lived there until I was 13. I fondly remember riding my bike with my best friend down Main St., .22 rifles in our hands, headed out to hunt rabbit. Even our local Barney Fife never felt the need to stop us. Admittedly that was in a rural farm town, and was more years ago than I care to admit, but has our society really changed that much that a person obviously not committing any crime has the police called on him? Don’t answer that, I’m afraid I know the answer already. As they say, a right not exercised is a right forfeited. If enough people were to actually exercise their right to bare arms, to the point that it was a common sight, then the anti-gun pussies would be forced back into the woodwork where they belong.

Even more alarming though is the attitude of the Parma PD brass, which may explain why the rank and file are ignorant of the Ohio laws, the laws they are sworn to uphold, on open carry.

“We as a city, as a police department don’t agree with it, but we’re stuck with it,” said Captain Robert Desimone of the Parma Police Department. “That’s the law, we have to uphold it.”

Part of upholding it is informing your officers it exists asshole. Then they won’t be making illegal stops of law abiding citizens. But it would seem that infringing on citizens rights is a popular pass time for the City of Parma.

Amigo noted at the end of the piece that the Parma law director is working to send letters to businesses in the city to let them know where to get signs to ban guns from their premises, a possible misuse of public funds to further the anti-gun propaganda of city officials.

Well, go ahead choads. People can vote with their wallets, and I know from personal observations that a business that puts up “no firearms” signs suffer a distinct drop in revenue.

The really good news though is that Fox 8 News conducted a poll of whether open carry should be legal. A whopping 91% said “absolutely”.

As for Mr. Carlisle, good job buddy. Thanks to you a whole hell of a lot of people in Parma Ohio know that they still have a right to bare arms.

39 comments

  1. 1
    Elchonon says:

    Thats just stooopid, I wouldn’t patronize businesses with gun forbidden signs.. also here in Florida you dont need to actually listen to the sign 😉

  2. 2
    gopenguins2010 says:

    only in Parma lol. my dad’s a mechanic with them, so i get to hear all the bullshit bureaucracy that goes on. i had my application with them for summer work get shitcanned twice (against state law), and i’m afraid to call the recreation department in case they went for the hat trick. :em96: and as for the response time, if the taco bell they’re talking about is the one across from Byer’s Field on Day Drive, there’s a TON of traffic that flows through there and ridge road because of the mall and the hospital, and the police station is on powers drive, so they have to go through residential streets to the call

  3. 3
    LCBrendan says:

    That issue can be addressed through better training for the Ohio LEO’s.

    After having read OpenCarry.org, and reading accounts of some real idiot officers, these ones deserve kudos for, in all honesty, having the brains to a/ detain him (better safe then sorry) and b (leave the sledgehammer alone, guys), having the brains to call in and check because they did not know.

    Their training was substandard (someone’s head is about to roll for this) and that’s an issue that will be taken up..but at least they didn’t jump up and arrest him, guns drawn, they called in and asked..

    I will never have an issue with a guy who is not afraid to admit he does not know,and then takes steps to check.

    I agree he did not need to be detained, and I agree it was a stupid error, but I am also looking at it from the officer’s POV,thinking “WHY didn’t I know this…I bet I look like a real idiot to this guy”.

    I feel sorry for them….not their fault. In all seriousness, even for a goof up, it was still good PR for them, and good policing.

    When in doubt..ask.

    They did okay.

  4. 4
    sig94 says:

    LCBrendan @:

    When in doubt..ask.

    They did okay.

    Roger that Brendan. No harm, no foul.

    Twenty minutes wasted? Not at all. Those cops got some in service training that they no doubt will share. Within 36 hours (gotta give the guys on rest days a chance to cycle in) just about every cop in Parma will have received the most important kind of training – a cop buddy giving you a new set of brains. All at absolutely no cost to the taxpayer. A definite “Win – Win.” Of course upper management will try to mess with this but the street guys get the picture.

    …the Parma law director is working to send letters to businesses in the city to let them know where to get signs to ban guns from their premises…

    If I am a goblin inclined to forcibly remove other peoples’ property at gunpoint, guess where I’d go? Straight to the new Parma Law Director Approved ™ Municipal Armed Robbery Clinics, easily identified by the “No Firearms” signs posted in the front of the premise.

  5. 5
    AgTiger says:

    I wonder how long it will be in Parma until we see a business sport a sign that says “CCW and Open Carry welcome here”? And how much longer till a bunch of others clue in that business attracted is better than business driven away? :em93:

  6. 6
    The Lone Haranguer says:

    “No Firearms” signs are absurd. Who really thinks anyone intent upon robbing or shooting up the place is going to say, “Aw, shit, I’ll have to go somewhere else now!” :em41:

    They can be tricky. At my local shopping mall the “No Firearms” sign is only posted at the main entrance to the mall itself. But none of the anchor stores through which you can also enter the mall have the sign. If you were not already familiar with the mall, you could find yourself in inadvertent violation.

  7. 7
    johnnyreb says:

    It’s not uncommon for this to happen in Ohio. It would seem that a vast majority of the LEO’s don’t even know the current laws concerning CCW, let alone (*gasp) open carry. While i wouldn’t normally approve of non-CCW for this reason, if someone feels the urge to go forth and educate their local constabulary … more power to ’em

  8. 8
    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion says:

    This plea of ignorance on behalf of the PD is purely a tactic to maintain the ability to stop and question those exercising thier right to open carry. It would be prudent that those using this right keep a laminated copy of the actual statute in thier wallet to go along with thier ID. Not that it really matters…..trust me these a-holes know thier guns laws. Maybe the 911 dispatchers should be educated as to the law….

    Gives me an idea….wonder how well a “open carry” event would go over? Get a couple of thousand folks at the state capitol …….might even make the news…..

  9. 9
    The LC formerly known as Ziske68 says:

    Million Gun March on the Capitol mall perhaps?

  10. 10
    johnnyreb says:

    Here are a coupla links for last years nominees, for ‘da buckeyes’ version of the Keystone cops … 1st we have a fellow that was harranged and berated IN PUBLIC by a veteran Sgt. after a “man with a gun” was reportedly strolling down the sidewalk Next up, we have: a memo about how successful the open carry walk (in support of the fella in the first link) was. I hate to sound contemptous of law enforcement but they do bring it upon themselves. The ones that are active shooters (mainly Sheriffs) seem to do well in IDPA competition, AND know the gun laws. Others … not so much. I’ve actually witnessed some being removed from competition by the range officer for unsafe gun handling …

  11. 11
    LC Wil, S.C.E. says:

    I agree, Brendan. This was a training failure, not a failure of the Officers. They were never properly trained, but handled a strange situation with intelligence and proper courtesy.

    The mistake was by and of their superiors.

    “Never let any man say, “Oh, but for the lack of training . . . ‘ ”
    U.S. Army NCO Academy Handbook

    That said, I have never gone past a “No firearms” sign, no matter if I am carrying or not. I found a new CHURCH a few years back because of this.

  12. 12
    LC PrimEviL says:

    The real problem here is the clueless hoplophobic enema nozzle that made the call in the first
    place. The (eek) Man With the Gun was obviously not causing a problem, so what’s with the
    911 bullshit?

    The asswipe needs his ass kicked up over his shoulders, and then sat down and given the
    real no-shitter about our rights as Americans.

    As to the Cops not knowing, I agree with Troy. It’s BS. They play dumb, so they can fuck with
    people, and then it’s all just an honest mistake.

    Americans have the right to carry arms. Any Cop who truly doesn’t know that is maleducated,
    and maltrained. Anyone of them who doesn’t like it is in the wrong job, period.

    I met a Cop at a social function, and was discussing shooting with him, and he flat-out stated,
    “We don’t like Cowboys.”
    To which I replied,
    ‘You just can’t stand the competition.”
    His reply?
    “Yep”

  13. 13
    Lc ORWN says:

    well having grwn up in that shithole of a city, i can attest to the fact that the PD is pretty frickin useless, they can be found at Royal Donut on State rd. instead of doin their jobs

  14. 14
    Lc ORWN says:

    we used to drag race down 54th st back in the day, thats where the old pd station was at never down State rd. any Rotties in and around the Cleveland area know what I’m talking about

  15. 15
    LC Wil, S.C.E. says:

    PrimEviLand Troy

    My experience has been that the cops reflect the society they come from. That is, if 50% of a city are GFWs, then near 50% of the PD will be.

    Sheriff’s Departments are usually less anti-gun than the city departments (this may well have something to do with an inverse relationship to the proximity of backup).

    Most city cops can’t shoot worth a damn, and have only a basic familiarity with the one they have on their hip. “Strange” guns scare them, especially when in the posession of someone else. Most Deputies and Troupers are passing familiar with most thing that go boom, at least to the point of being able to pull their teeth safely.

    And, for the most part, this IS an education issue, but one caused by deliberate political decisions of the line officer’s superiors.

    That last is the most important issue. Change that, and the rest will change itself.

  16. 16
    Sir Guido Cabrone. LC, M.o.P. says:

    Fall of 1983, I rode to over to a friend’s place with another friend. They were headed out to go drinking, I was going deer hunting at 0-dark-thirty the next day.

    I was going hunting with yet a third friend’s .44 Marlin, which was the purpose of the trip.

    Me, being young and in half-way decent shape yet, decided to walk home. (About four miles.)

    So, I take off, rifle slung, (he didn’t have a case, and I didn’t know this, so I didn’t bring one with me.)

    Half way home, a WPD officer pulls up, gets out of his car, and asks me what I am doing.

    I tell him. He opens the back door of his squad car, and asks me if I would lay the rifle in the back while he calls in. Before I lay it in the car, he asks me if it is loaded. I respond in the negative, and ask him if he would like for me to show clear on it.

    No problem.

    He calls in, tells his dispatcher that it’s just a guy walking home with an unloaded hunting rifle, and cancel the call.

    Then asks if I need a ride the rest of the way home. I’m not concerned either way, (only another couple of miles, after all), and then he makes the comment that, “It’ll help me not having to answer anymore ‘man with a gun’ calls tonight.”

    Cool. I took him up on the offer.

    And he wished me good luck on the hunt before he drove away…

  17. 17

    I grew up a little north of Denver, on the north side of a small town that was still pretty rural. We had big farm fields about 1/4 mile north of our high school and they were great for dove and pheasant hunting. During the season, we would pack our shotguns with us to school and go hunting after school was out. We would walk to the fields across school grounds with our shotguns, always broken open, and the rest of our gear….the assistant principal was usually standing outside monitoring the kids speeding from the parking lot and just patrolling as Vice principals are wont to do. He would always come up and talk to us, wish us good hunting, and would say “and if you boys go over your limit, I wouldn’t mind a bird or two”…..hint hint. We played by the rules when we hunted….most often we’d just give him one of ours when we limited out……that little gesture kept us in his good graces later on when we got into trouble, he usually went pretty light on us.

  18. 18

    oh, and try walking across school grounds with a shotgun today……

  19. 19
    LC Aggie Sith says:

    Mr. Carlisle ordered his food, paid for it and made small talk with the Taco Bell staff, ate and left.

    Wow….and some gun fearing pussified metrosexual reject really THOUGHT a thief would openly carry a gun, have time to order and eat, before committing a crime in broad daylight?

    Someone should hit that moron with a cluebat, repeatedly, until that which passes for cranial tissue oozes out of his ears.

  20. 20
    mindy1 says:

    i do not get this-if he did not threaten anyone,why call the cops

  21. 21
    LC Aggie Sith says:

    mindy1 @:

    if he did not threaten anyone,why call the cops?

    Probably because the pussy felt his masculinity threatened. Check out the video:

    http://crufflecarp.org/video/parma/parma.html

    His name is Jared Leon, a misnomer if ever there was one. :em12:

  22. 22
    Ten-Ten says:

    I like Guns. And pie.

  23. 23
    LC PrimEviL says:

    mindy1 sez:

    i do not get this-if he did not threaten anyone,why call the cops

    Mindy,
    Because this country is chock full of Socialized, Brainwashed, Ignoramus dipshit pissant
    morons with cell phones just aching to be a hero and dial “911”.

    Round them up, then break all their fingers so they can’t dial.

  24. 24
    Lc ORWN says:

    I had to try out the new button

  25. 25
    Lc ORWN says:

    it didn’t do nutin

  26. 26
    WayneB says:

    Damn, I want to open a restaurant or something of the sort, if only to be able to tell a shitwhale (TM – Rachel Lucas) like that that he is no longer welcome in my establishment.

    I like Guns. And pie.

    Me, too. And Ice Cream.

  27. 27

    Trying the button…

  28. 28

    Somewhat ott, but the NRA is offering a free one year gift membership.

  29. 29
    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion says:

    Folks… this may be many things… but a training issue it isnt… How do I know…. well I was (up to two yrs ago) a LE Firearms Instructor (I was not LE.. I was an instructor). The candidates are ALL over thier local guns laws… I have never met a police officer or a candidate that didnt know thier gun laws.

    Its not the stop that bothers me all that much.. I am reasonable and I recognize that seeing a firearm in the open on a non-uniformed person is not a normal occurance. So if I was stopped and “checked out” thats cool….. but for an Officer to even for a moment indicate that they dont know the law….. well that is unacceptable. They are RESPONSIBLE for enforcing the LAW. How can they know if there has been a violation… if they dont know thier law…

    Its like cops who ask you if you mind if they search your car.. when the do a simple traffic stop……my response is always the same… “sure you can….right after you tell me your probable cause”. That has a tendancy to place a check on the situation. I dont do fishing expeditions……

  30. 30
    lc purple raider says:

    From my personal experience, Ohio LEO’s are screwy.

    Depending on the juridiction, you wouldn’t get a sideways glance, a hold-on-a-minute (like what happened in Parma), or a “lower your gun to the floor” attitude. Some of it will be PD policy, some of it will be personal preference.

    I’ve seen all kinds in the Buckeye.

    But try doing 58 in a big rig, now that will really get their attention.

  31. 31
    LC Proud Infidel says:

    Hell PR, 56 in a big rig gets their attention with $ signs in their eyes, I hated Ohio with a vengeance when I was an OTR driver!
    Anyway, a snot-drooling, sniveling GFW typically fears that having legally armed citizens IIIIISN’T FAAAIIR to the goblins, because it gets in the way of people being government-dependent VICTIMS. Turds like the wuss who called the cops are just like the libtard GFW upstairs neighbor I have who looks at me with fear in his eyes after I debated him about the last election, and as soon as I told him I’m a gun owner, he asked me with fear in his eyes for me to warn him before I go through his apartment on a rampage, no bullshit!! :em99: He’s a British EUrowuss as well, not even an American citizen, but still campaigning for every libwuss cause that he can, the :em72: :em72: :em41:

  32. 32
    LC Gonzman says:

    Just doing their jobs is fine, but people tend to forget that it is not the job of the police to protect you. They deter criminals with their presence, in theory, but their main job is to arrest people, gather evidence, and make a case for the state. The prosecutor’s job is to seal the deal. Neither is your friend if you are unfortunate enough to be the target of an investigation. They are not questioning you to try to clear you, they are questioning you because they think you are guilty and are trying to hang you. Identify yourself, don’t answer questions, and don’t consent to searches. No, it won’t make you look guilty. You have already passed that point, and the right to be free of unreasonable search, and the right to not give evidence against yourself is to protect innocent people.

    That said, I live in a state where I can carry concealed and I do when I can. It is less GFW bait. I will carry openly if I have to, but it’s just an easier way to go.

  33. 33
    Ogrrre says:

    From the video: “The police say he was testing the law.”
    I call BULLSHIT! A citizen is not, repeat, NOT, “testing the law” when they are minding their own business and abiding by the law. A driver is not “testing the law” when he is driving the speed limit, nor is a citizen testing littering laws when they dispose of litter in a litter can. One cannot “test a law” by abiding by it. Good Lord, it that is the kind of police officers they have in Parma, round ’em up and shoot ’em, because they are too stupid to live, much less serve as law enforcement officers.

  34. 34
    Shaitana says:

    Reminds me of how here in Florida… I was sitting one night in my car using wifi downtown. When i pulled out into the main road I had forgotten to put my lights back on (it’s bright on the streets in town) and as soon as I had pulled out, a local officer pulled me over to remind me. Well, he decided he wanted to see my registration and such…. Well it was in the glove box underneath my husbands 45. Not wanting the dear officer to flip out as I would have to move it to get to the papers.. .I told him, “I have a firearm in my glovebox, just lettingyou know I have to move it to get hte paperwork.”

    He decided he needed to ‘take the firearm’ to check it out or some such nonsense. So I had to wait 20 mins while he did whatever it is he did.. with MY gun, in his patrol car before coming back, telling me everything was ok, turn my lights back on and be on my way…

    WTH?

  35. 35
    Shaitana says:

    Oh and he even had the gall to ask me if I had a CCW… It was in the fucking glove box…. Perfectly legal here. Fucktard.

  36. 36
    Ten-Ten says:

    Purple Raider,

    But try doing 58 in a big rig, now that will really get their attention.

    My gratitude and respect for Law Enforcement aside, that is when Troopers become tax collectors with a 9mm.

    The party line is – “It’s about public safety.”

    Bullshit! Several years ago, the speed limit for Commercial Vehicles on the Ohio Turnpike was raised from 55 to 65 mph. Why? Revenue. Pure and simple.

    Why would I pay a toll when I could take US 20 for free (road use taxes not withstanding)?

    From an engineering standpoint, Interstate 70 (55mph) and Interstate 80/90 (65mph) are identical.

  37. 37
    AyUaxe says:

    1. The open carrier needs to find out who the complainant was and swear out a charge of filing a false report against him/her. He might, depending upon who the person is, also want to file a suit against them.

    2. The story shows once again that rank and file LEOs are, though poorly trained and wrongly indoctrinated, pretty decent guys. Only rarely have I run across a patrol officer or detective who’s opposed to reasonable, capable citizens possessing and carrying firearms. They know what it’s like on the streets and that good law-abiding gun owners are their allies. That said, never tell a cop anything you don’t have to and don’t give ’em anything to bust you for–right or wrong, that is their job and generally we want them to do it well.

    3. The story also shows that the power-crazed bureaucrats and political appointees, like police chiefs/superintendents, will do/say anything to cement their power over the people. They want no resistance and their hubris cannot admit that they and their minions can’t handle everything. This is yet another reason that term limits and promotions from the ranks are critical to keeping local government and law enforcement on track.

  38. 38
    anonymous hourly worker says:

    Living within driving distance of L.A., we’ve had people absolutely FREAK OUT in gas stations while we’re gassing up on our way back from hunting. Even when we’re dressed in camo. Even with DEAD ANIMALS hanging in plain sight.

    They’ll see a gun in the back of the truck and just START SCREAMING. This has happened twice in the past two years.

  39. 39
    LC Ranger 6, Imperial Wielder of The Rove says:

    I found a new club to join.

    I bet these outings are hilarious.

    :em95: :em95: :em95: :em95:

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