Cradle of Liberty -> Grave of Liberty

Yeah, that would be “Boston Strong” and surrounding Gaus, henceforth to be known as Nürnberg an der Charles (h/t LC Roguetek, found at the most level-headed, calm gun blogger His Imperial Majesty knows, Tam of View From the Porch).

Long story short, but DO go read the post and, in particular, the comments, guy makes sick joke about “one down, 534 to go” after the Tucson shooting, Masshole SS show up to relieve him of his 2nd Amendment right for having a dark sense of humor, two years later said blogger gets his FID back (something you have to have in order to even own an Evil Gun in the “free” state of Taxachusetts and goes on to apply for his License to Carry.

At which point the Arlington Mickey Mouse Mall Ninjas show up at his doorstep, gains entrance without a warrant and proceeds to steal his fiancee’s firearms (he still didn’t have any for them to steal and yes, it IS theft).

For having the nerve to apply for an LTC.

On the Fourth of July.

Irony is well and truly dead. As dead as freedom is in certain areas of this once free nation.

Thatisall. His Majesty needs to go let the steam off somehow…

64 comments

  1. 1
    single stack growls and barks:

    His Majesty needs to go let the steam off somehow…

    I find recoil therapy very relaxing.

  2. 2
    LC Light29ID - The Imperial Asshole growls and barks:

    And then we have these two little tidbits of what happens when you buy bottled water in Virginia. From Drudge:

    911 Audio: Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Surrounds 20-Year-Old for Buying Bottled Water

    Hinkle: Commit any felonies lately?

    Plus this little Facebook page: Police State USA: Land of the Checkpoints

  3. 3
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    And in New Hampshire, residency and $10 gets you a CCW.
    :em01:
    I don’t have one…yet. I’ve been looking at applying, but first, some personal study of the laws, my responsibilities and loads of practice.
    :em03:
    And a nasty email asking where the IWB holster I ordered two months ago is.
    :em08:

  4. 4
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    All will be well if TJIC, the guy in question, just listened to some Lee Greenwood. He really should be proud to be an American, where at least he knows he’s free.

  5. 5
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    angrywebmaster @ #:

    And in New Hampshire, residency and $10 gets you a CCW.
    I don’t have one…yet. I’ve been looking at applying,

    You’re applying for a permit to exercise a right? (Not singling you out – just odd that people are so willing to allow a right to be converted to a license.)

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right license of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed unduly withheld. Enh, I guess it works.

    As an aside, it occurs to me that the anti-gunners are going about things all wrong. They shouldn’t focus on the “Militia” part of the language, they should just focus on “well regulated” part – after all, all they are really seeking is regulations regarding the ownership of weapons, and the 2nd Amendment expressly allows for that, right?

  6. 6
    LibraryGryffon growls and barks:

    Fa Cube Itches @ #: Don’t go giving them ideas!

    I do wonder what would happen if several millions of us descended on DC, all peaceful like, but determined to point out to that fever swamp that, contrary to what they seem to believe, the power they have is simply allowed to them for a finite amount of time by We, The People, and that they better start acting that way.

    It seems to have had a salutory effect (so far anyway) in Egypt…

  7. 7
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Fa Cube Itches @ #:

    You’re applying for a permit to exercise a right? (Not singling you out – just odd that people are so willing to allow a right to be converted to a license.)

    New Hampshire is also Open carry, no permit required, We recently turned back an attempt by the Communist Demonrats that run the senate from repealing our Stand Your Ground law.
    :em01:
    Plenty of mention was made of Article 10 of the state constitution in the last 6 months over this and other things they have been trying to do.

    Frankly, I’ve been looking into ccw for at least a year. In the last 8 months I’ve gotten back into shooting, taken classes and picked up a brand new AR15, (Pre-Sandy Hook) and a Sig1911 C3 .45. That will be my carry gun for concealment purposes. Once I get the budget, I’m, going to get a standard sized .45 for open carry.

    My neighborhood is starting to turn a bit. A few years ago the raided the two family across the street and found $3 million in stolen Oxycontin. Last year, some whack job shot someone down the street and took off. The whole night it was helicopters flying around and cars driving around looking for him.

    Another incident, some two legged vermin walked up to another guy and just shot him in the parking lot of the supermarket just down the street from me.

    My mayor was part of Bloomberg’s “Confiscate all guns!” group until recently. Figured out that Nanny is nuts and out of control.
    :em07:
    BTW

    On the AR, I’ve been looking at the Vortex Strikefire. Does anyone have any experience with it?
    :em03:

  8. 8
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    I almost forgot to mention our friendly neighborhood Jihadi’s in Boston. when they couldn’t find them I got really concerned that they might be heading up here.
    :em06:

  9. 9
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    I want to see something.

    I want to see one of you bastards who routinely defends the cops when they do bad shit, justify this. No, seriously. You fuckers keep arguing that ‘it’s a tiny minority’. “we risk our lives for you’… and other flat out fucking lies.

    This is a quote from the poor bastard caught in the grinder…

    At the end, some of the cops who ransacked the house tried to shake hands with me. “No hard feelings”.

    I refused and said “Gentlemen, please think about what you’re doing. On the fourth of july, the day we celebrate freedom, you stole legally owned firearms from a women who is engaged to a guy who made a joke you don’t like. You are not the good guys. You are ‘just doing your jobs’. Look in the mirror. You’re the bad guys.”

    Response: “I’m sorry you feel that way. Have a good Fourth.”

    My lawyer says that there’s a decent chance I may yet be arrested.

    Look that over good and hard.

    “I was just following orders” sounds so much better in the original German, doesn’t it?

    And what’s the most horrifying is this is the best possible outcome he could have hoped for. This is Leviathan’s ‘lightest touch’ in the hellhole of Massachusetts.

    Not a single government employee in that entire chain of events will see the slightest penalty. We all know that.

    And yet there are still those of you, here in this forum, who would defend the actions of law enforcement. You twist, and squirm, and do everything you can to come up with ‘reasons’ why most cops are good, and this is just an ‘abnormality’.

    Given that the entire social landscape is just -littered- with ‘abnormalities’ and I can think of, maybe 3 or 4 ‘good cops’ in the span of the last five years.

    But I can’t begin to count the ‘bad cop’ incidents in this country.

  10. 10
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek @ #:9

    THIS list is just beginning – http://battlefieldusa.wordpress.com/the-rule-of-law/
    I have no doubt it will be just as extensive if not more than this one which I use frequently and am still appalled every time I look at it –
    http://battlefieldusa.wordpress.com/good-morning-amerika/

  11. 11

    LC Roguetek says:

    I want to see one of you bastards who routinely defends the cops when they do bad shit, justify this. No, seriously. You fuckers keep arguing that ‘it’s a tiny minority’. “we risk our lives for you’… and other flat out fucking lies.

    OK, this ” bastard” will take a shot at it.

    How many incidents are documented? How many cops are there in this country? There have always been bad cops, in ANY decade…..there are bad eggs in any department. Does that mean that we make all of them enemies? I just celebrated the fourth at a friends house who is a bigshot in the state GOP party, he had some guys there that are county LEO’s and state LEO’s…..good people, honest people, and dead set against EVERYTHING that obama and the state democrats are doing. I’ve gone target shooting with these guys, I know them…..they are not the bad guys. Assholes like the cops that do things like the things documented above are the enemy, but they don’t represent all of the law enforcement officers in this country. You make a huge mistake painting all of them with that brush, I’m still convinced that many of them are on our side and will join us when the SHTF.

    What say the LEO’s on this site? are you the enemy???

    LC Roguetek says:

    And yet there are still those of you, here in this forum, who would defend the actions of law enforcement. You twist, and squirm, and do everything you can to come up with ‘reasons’ why most cops are good, and this is just an ‘abnormality’.

    so given that you judge the millions of cops by the actions of assholes like the above, I guess that I can judge all conservatives and patriots (me included) by your words and actions as well right? God help us all if that’s the case.

    that’s enough from this “bastard”

  12. 12
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    How many incidents are documented? How many cops are there in this country? There have always been bad cops, in ANY decade…..there are bad eggs in any department. Does that mean that we make all of them enemies? I just celebrated the fourth at a friends house who is a bigshot in the state GOP party, he had some guys there that are county LEO’s and state LEO’s…..good people, honest people, and dead set against EVERYTHING that obama and the state democrats are doing. I’ve gone target shooting with these guys, I know them…..they are not the bad guys. Assholes like the cops that do things like the things documented above are the enemy, but they don’t represent all of the law enforcement officers in this country. You make a huge mistake painting all of them with that brush, I’m still convinced that many of them are on our side and will join us when the SHTF.

    A mix of the “isolated incident excuse” with a side of the ‘no true scotsman’ fallacy.

    The number of times in recorded human history when a civilization’s guardians (soldiers, or police, I’m using a broad brush, -in your favor- so don’t complain) have stood up and defended said civilization from falling to evil ( socialism, other ‘ism’ or just an old fashioned dictatorship) are few and far between. They are, however, at least measurable. But at what level? one in 50? one in 20? one in ten?

    Even at the most generous odds, they’re not good.

    In most cases, the law enforcement bodies of the state, side with the state. Your friends are going to enforce horrible, rights crushing, anti constitutional laws, without blinking an eye. I know this, because they -do it already-. The slope is already slipped, to mangle a phrase. This, however, does not touch upon the worst of it. This is merely ‘following orders’. Horrible, but legal.

    What say the LEO’s on this site? are you the enemy???

    I have a simple litmus test for this. It has two questions.

    1. Have you ever knowingly enforced an unconstitutional law? (hint, the answer is yes.)

    2. Have you ever abused the lawful authority invested in you by the public you swore to serve? (hint, the answer is, within 90% certainty, ‘yes’.)

    Before you argue against this… Have you really looked at the laws you’ve enforced?

    As to question 2, you’ve never, ever, under any circumstances, arrested someone who you felt really -really- deserved it, but the law didn’t quite fit, so you bent it a little, just a -tiny- bit? You’ve never turned a blind eye to a fellow officer? Sure, maybe you had his car towed, and you drove him home, and chewed his ass ‘off the books’ but that DUI never happened, did it? Because you ‘didn’t want to ruin the career of a promising young officer.” or “you didn’t want to ruin his retirement.” or “well, he’d lose everything, and his kids play with my kids, and he’s my neighbor, and I don’t have the stomach to watch that happen..”

    And it starts out -so easy-, so well meaning. That thug who you -knew- was gonna beat the shit out of his ol lady, dropping a joint in his back pocket puts him in jail long enough for her to get her life together, and get away from him.

    The mouthy, entitled little punk who needs a lesson in respect, getting that speeding ticket that’s only a -little- doctored…

    The spiral into abuse of power, and true evil is so -easy-. And your brothers in blue will protect you, the whole way.

    so given that you judge the millions of cops by the actions of assholes like the above, I guess that I can judge all conservatives and patriots (me included) by your words and actions as well right? God help us all if that’s the case.

    I judge millions of cops based on…

    1. The legal, but oath-breaking, and and vastly immoral and unethical laws they willingly, and knowingly enforce. I could write a book on that, but I don’t think I’d live long enough to cover all of it, it’s a -long- list.

    2. The actions of the ‘bad’ cops. Starting at the mild end of the spectrum, with those who bend the law because they ‘mean well’, and ending with the cops that quite literally commit murder, and get away with it.

    3. The actions of all of the ‘good cops’ who, from all appearances, don’t do a single. fucking. thing. about the actions of ‘bad’ cops, and from all external appearances, actively defend them. Yeah, I’m looking at -you- jaybear.

    4. The absolute lack of consequences for 1-3.

    In regards to ‘well, what about all the good things cops do?’

    It would be unfair to judge the police for alleged evils that are unproven. I try hard not to do so, and limit my outrage to only the events and deeds that can be proven to have happened.

    It is equally unfair to give credence to police for unfounded good deeds. I find it a sad state of affairs that the list of good deeds done by cops is so much smaller than the list of bad deeds. If there was a web site for ‘Good deeds done by police’ I would read it, and -be happy-.

    You don’t want to be a ‘Bad Guy’. You don’t want to think that the people you like, respect, and socialize with are “Bad Guys’. I can certainly understand that. If someone told me I was a horrible, evil person, who consorted with horrible, evil people, I’d certainly fight that argument tooth and nail.

    I’ll close on this statement.

    I want to live in a country where police officers are people I can respect and trust. When I was a child I lived in that country, but that country is gone now.

  13. 13
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    oh, and while I’m thinking about it.

    I apologize for the excessively abrasive tone of my original post. I could have been a bit more polite, and probably should have.

  14. 14
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Response: “I’m sorry you feel that way. Have a good Fourth.”

    Suggested reply: “You just ruined it, you mµ+#€®ƒµ¢%|n’ ß@$+@®?!” I’d go for stronger action, but my own peculiar situation gives me no grounds to advise anyone.

    Guess we don’t need Boston.

  15. 15

    LC Roguetek says:

    The number of times in recorded human history when a civilization’s guardians (soldiers, or police, I’m using a broad brush, -in your favor- so don’t complain) have stood up and defended said civilization from falling to evil ( socialism, other ‘ism’ or just an old fashioned dictatorship) are few and far between. They are, however, at least measurable. But at what level? one in 50? one in 20? one in ten?

    the examples of history really don’t apply to a country like ours. To say that police or soldiers don’t stand up and defend said civilization is just false. You judge the cops and, in this case, our military by the 1 in 50-20-10 levels of examples……stating that too few examples exist to make the case also negates your argument about the cops being bad guys, how many examples exist there? If you’re going to use the broad brush, then it needs to be applied to both sides of the argument.

    LC Roguetek says:

    I judge millions of cops based on…

    1. The legal, but oath-breaking, and and vastly immoral and unethical laws they willingly, and knowingly enforce. I could write a book on that, but I don’t think I’d live long enough to cover all of it, it’s a -long- list.

    2. The actions of the ‘bad’ cops. Starting at the mild end of the spectrum, with those who bend the law because they ‘mean well’, and ending with the cops that quite literally commit murder, and get away with it.

    3. The actions of all of the ‘good cops’ who, from all appearances, don’t do a single. fucking. thing. about the actions of ‘bad’ cops, and from all external appearances, actively defend them. Yeah, I’m looking at -you- jaybear.

    4. The absolute lack of consequences for 1-3.

    look at me all you want, I’m not a cop….I do have a long family history of law enforcers going back to the mid -1860’s. My cousin is currently a Denver cop and I have ancestors that were FBI as well as US marshalls.

    I judge the cops by the ones I know, the ones in my family, and by my interactions with them. I regularly ( though not as often as I should) go shooting with a couple of them, one worked on my M1 for me. Am I to just broad brush them into the category of the enemy based on scattered incidents of abuse? and if so, who do I replace them with as allies? loose mouthed pseudo patriots who probably won’t last through the first day of any coming revolution? Tell me who the good guys are man……

    LC Roguetek says:

    You don’t want to be a ‘Bad Guy’. You don’t want to think that the people you like, respect, and socialize with are “Bad Guys’. I can certainly understand that. If someone told me I was a horrible, evil person, who consorted with horrible, evil people, I’d certainly fight that argument tooth and nail.

    Again, I’m not a cop……and I[m not a bad guy nor do I worry about being called one. Anyone here, anytime can call me anything they want, if you don’t want me to stand up for the cops….if you think I’m doing something wrong by doing that then tell me who I should be supporting, there have to be some good guys somewhere in this coming fight.

  16. 16
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    the examples of history really don’t apply to a country like ours. To say that police or soldiers don’t stand up and defend said civilization is just false. You judge the cops and, in this case, our military by the 1 in 50-20-10 levels of examples……stating that too few examples exist to make the case also negates your argument about the cops being bad guys, how many examples exist there? If you’re going to use the broad brush, then it needs to be applied to both sides of the argument.

    First you complain that I use the broad brush against, and yet, when I use it -in your favor-, you….complain that I use a broad brush… Ok then..

    A few points.

    I lumped in soldiers with cops, because in a number of the cases -in favor- of ‘people who enforce the law’, no actual police were involved. I only brought soldiers into it, to bend the numbers -in your favor-. Without adding soldiers into the mix, the number of times police officers have refused to obey the government, and protect a country and it’s people from the government are… well, I don’t know of any. Feel free to cite counter examples.

    “Defending said civilization’ – What I mean, when I say ‘protecting civilization’ is ‘preventing tyranny from happening’. Hopefully that clears things up, because I suppose ‘tyranny’ can count as a form of civilization.

    Let’s accept your argument that America is unique in this regard, and there is no other data we can use as a yardstick.
    What you’re saying is we -dont know- what will happen if the police are given a choice between their paycheck and thier principles. That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement of your position. Having no data is even worse than having limited data, or data that only partially fits. So we’ll have to use worse case, and assume a 100 percent failure rate. Why so harsh? Because the consequences are that great.

    And frankly, as far as paycheck vs. principles… the police are not doing all that well, based on available data.

    look at me all you want, I’m not a cop….I do have a long family history of law enforcers going back to the mid -1860?s. My cousin is currently a Denver cop and I have ancestors that were FBI as well as US marshalls.

    I judge the cops by the ones I know, the ones in my family, and by my interactions with them. I regularly ( though not as often as I should) go shooting with a couple of them, one worked on my M1 for me. Am I to just broad brush them into the category of the enemy based on scattered incidents of abuse? and if so, who do I replace them with as allies? loose mouthed pseudo patriots who probably won’t last through the first day of any coming revolution? Tell me who the good guys are man……

    You may not be a police officer, but you are ‘of the blue tribe’ by heritage, and by association. While their sins are certainly not yours, We’re having this conversation because you rose to their defense. I do not hold you accountable for the deeds of your kith and kin.

    Since you are ‘kin of the blue tribe’, you’re never going to be on the recieving end of their misdeeds, because you’re ‘one of them’. Someone to be treated decently, because you’re ‘of the tribe’. This is -basic- anthropology and human psych. Yes, people really do behave this way.

    And, I’m certain, without a doubt, that the gestapo, the stazi, and every other fascist police organization was full of ‘decent family men’, who had bbq parties, and went shooting with thier neighbors, and helped them in small, completely legal and ethical ways.

    And of course, you’re going to demonize anyone who attacks your tribe, because it’s -your tribe-, your people. hence your rather strawman/ad hominim comments about ‘loose mouthed pseudo patriots who wont last a day’, etc,etc.

    Again, I’m not a cop……and I[m not a bad guy nor do I worry about being called one. Anyone here, anytime can call me anything they want, if you don’t want me to stand up for the cops….if you think I’m doing something wrong by doing that then tell me who I should be supporting, there have to be some good guys somewhere in this coming fight.

    What do I want you to do? it’s a fairly simple list.

    1. find any and all officers of the law who are ‘doing right’, and do everything in your power to see that they are protected, and rewarded. Many of them will be in grave danger, as they will have gone against the tribe, to deal with corrupted police.

    2. Seek out, and distroy without mercy, any and all members of the blue tribe who ‘do wrong’. give them no shelter, and no quarter. refuse them any shelter, and permit them no excuse.

    That’s all.

  17. 17
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    And let this bastard chime in too, because there seems to be a few misunderstandings going on:

    LC Roguetek says:

    And yet there are still those of you, here in this forum, who would defend the actions of law enforcement.

    Not in this case. It’s clear cut. What happened yesterday was clearly illegal, but what happened to that blogger two years ago when his rights were stripped from him because he posted a tasteless joke certainly was toopost the same joke, I certainly thought it, because my sense of humor is as non-PC as it gets.

    Which, by the way is interesting, because nobody in my local PD, in spite of them allegedly all being Nazi scumbag bastards, showed up on my doorstep. I didn’t even get a phone call. I guess my local “Nazi stormtroopers because they have committed the inexcusable crime of wearing the uniform” must have been all taking a nap so they couldn’t get around to exercising their uniform-based inherent Naziness.

    I’m being sarcastic here to make a point: Knee-jerk assuming that cops are all bad guys is no worse and no better than knee-jerk assuming that they’re all wonderful because they’re wearing blue. And I should know, because I stand guilty of the former myself. As in back post-Katrina when I unleashed a torrent of furious, ruthless, insulting, derisive invective as only a few select assholes such as myself can upon a Nawlins chief LEO based on something that the MSM had said that he’d said.

    Yeah. Stupid, right? Me, trusting anything printed in the Commie Media.

    Well he, instead of using his powers of LE in true Nazi fashion, making my life very miserable through the Blue Brotherhood, instead of unleashing a tirade of offensive invective in my general direction for having misrepresented what he actually said (which was later heavily edited to produce the “citizens shouldn’t be allowed to have guns” meme that the Commie Media love so much), sent me an exceedingly polite email complete with contact information should I desire to reach him for further questions, asking me to please read the whole thing so as to allow him to tell his side of the story. He didn’t demand that I post a retraction, he didn’t threaten me with lawsuits or other consequences, he didn’t challenge me to a duel or swear that he’d do everything in his powers to destroy me for having questioned and maligned his honor, he just asked me to pretty please read his email containing his story.

    I posted the whole thing anyway since I was ashamed of having taken only one side’s version at face value, especially a side that I know can’t be trusted in any way and because I wanted everybody else to know just how much of an idiot you can make of yourself by jumping to conclusions.

    Oh, and he registered to say thanks. Still somehow forgot to be a Nazi. They just don’t build Nazis the way they used to.

    My whole point being: You’re right to be pissed off at actual wrongs and nobody is going to ask you to forget them. I sure as hell won’t. But focus your fire, know your target, and don’t make the ProgNazi mistake of painting people with a broad brush.

    As to the subject of this post, those “officers” need to be fired, lose their pensions if they have any, and be prosecuted in a court of law and sent to jail, GP, so they can enjoy being among the ones they’ve trampled on (they won’t be, and that’s the real problem which is the reason that those things even happen, but that’s what needs to happen in cases like these).

    But that doesn’t change the fact that every case is different and everybody deserve their day in court. Also, just because one member of any group of people acts like a Nazi fuckwit doesn’t mean that they’re all the same way.

    Marco Rubio and his gay boyfriend Chuck Schumer are both pretty sorry examples of Americans, but that doesn’t mean that all Americans are backstabbing traitor shitbags.

    Also, keep in mind that whereas this new tech age, wonderful as it is, also means that everything bad will be published, but barely anything positive will be. No papers or blogs will ever run a front page story saying “look how awesome those cops are”, but every single negative story will be published in a hurry. Most of the time omitting quite a few facts of the case.

    TL;DR : Keep a close eye on your enemies and keep a tally, but don’t make the mistake of assuming that everybody who looks like an asshole who needs to die in a fire also needs to die in a fire.

  18. 18
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    It’s kind of funny that police abuses are often celebrated, rather than reviled. Consider the Gunfight at the OK Corral: the Earps and Holliday were attempting to arrest a group of individuals for violating a town ordinance that directly contradicted the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. When the potential arrestees objected, the LEOs blasted them.

    Clearly, the Clantons and McLaurys (in the main, at least) had questionable-at-best backgrounds, and probably could have been legitimately arrested for cattle rustling and maybe even murder. However, that’s not what the Earps attempted to do. Instead, they gunned them down while attempting to enforce a blatantly unconstitutional town ordinance.

    The FBI are praised for dealing with the KKK – which is a good job on it’s face – but the details of *how* they were able to get some of the information that they got is unsavory, to say the least.

  19. 19

    LC Roguetek says:

    I lumped in soldiers with cops, because in a number of the cases -in favor- of ‘people who enforce the law’, no actual police were involved. I only brought soldiers into it, to bend the numbers -in your favor-. Without adding soldiers into the mix, the number of times police officers have refused to obey the government, and protect a country and it’s people from the government are… well, I don’t know of any. Feel free to cite counter examples.

    well, first off we have never been in a situation where the cops had to do that…I would guess that the closest we have ever been is the riots in the 60’s or maybe the draft riots in New York in 1863. Both times the military had to be called in as the cops were flat out overwhelmed.

    LC Roguetek says:

    Defending said civilization’ – What I mean, when I say ‘protecting civilization’ is ‘preventing tyranny from happening’. Hopefully that clears things up, because I suppose ‘tyranny’ can count as a form of civilization.

    I was never confused as to your intent in the first place, defending civilization is not only to defend it from tyranny but from anarchy and rampant murder and mayhem and defend it from those who would topple the pillars that make us a civilization in the first place, like the muslims want to do.

    LC Roguetek says:

    You may not be a police officer, but you are ‘of the blue tribe’ by heritage, and by association. While their sins are certainly not yours, We’re having this conversation because you rose to their defense. I do not hold you accountable for the deeds of your kith and kin.

    Since you are ‘kin of the blue tribe’, you’re never going to be on the recieving end of their misdeeds, because you’re ‘one of them’. Someone to be treated decently, because you’re ‘of the tribe’. This is -basic- anthropology and human psych. Yes, people really do behave this way.

    blue tribe? look at me that way if you want, but I prefer to be called an American (period)………I get treated decently because I don’t break the laws and I don’t do anything that calls undue attention to me. I like being under the radar that way

    LC Roguetek says:

    And of course, you’re going to demonize anyone who attacks your tribe, because it’s -your tribe-, your people. hence your rather strawman/ad hominim comments about ‘loose mouthed pseudo patriots who wont last a day’, etc,etc.

    I don’t have a tribe, I have a family and I have a country, and I stand by my comment about pseudo patriots. What I mean by that is that the ones who are clamoring for tearing down the structures and institutions of this country and calling for wholesale slaughter of those that disagree with their point of view are not patriots, no matter how fervently they wave the flag……they are pseudo patriots. If they succeed in their vision of tearing down this country, do you really think they will get the opportunity to restore it? Ask China or Russia or any of a number of other nations or ideaological groups that will move in and gather up the pieces first……I doubt they will have any patience for the whims and wishes of the pseudo patriots.

  20. 20
    kmhendu growls and barks:

    I’m with you Roguetek. They always side with the State and there ain’t no denying that. WTSHTF whose side will the leos be on? I think the answer is obvious. That being said there will be leos on our side as well so the emperor’s point is well taken. I just think the majority of them will be unfriendly.

  21. 21

    kmhendu says:

    I’m with you Roguetek. They always side with the State and there ain’t no denying that. WTSHTF whose side will the leos be on? I think the answer is obvious. That being said there will be leos on our side as well so the emperor’s point is well taken. I just think the majority of them will be unfriendly.

    reminds me of an old saying from the 60’s:

    “hate the cops? next time you’re in trouble call a hippie”

  22. 22
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    In all honesty, in my -entire life-, all 42 years of it, I’ve never had a situation get -better- because the police got involved.

    usual results range from ‘no change’ at best, to ‘somewhat worse’ on average, with the occasional ‘amazingly fucking bad’ thrown in.

    but never, -ever- better.

    ever.

  23. 23
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    I also note, Jaybear, that you’ve not responded to my answers.

    you asked me what I thought should be done. I told you. you didn’t engage that answer. I wonder why that is?

  24. 24
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I @ #:

    I certainly respect your point of view, Sire. I do however, humbly ask that you contemplate my “good cop litmus test’

    Good Cop Litmus Test.

    1. Have you ever knowingly enforced an unconstitutional law?

    2. Have you ever abused the lawful authority invested in you by the public you swore to serve?

    It is my contention, that if you answer ‘yes’ to both questions, you are -not- a good cop. Of course, all things are a matter of degree. Some cops are ‘mostly good’. Some… are not.

    Also… your opinion of this…

    1. The fact that officers of the law, swear an oath, and, within hours violating that oath, by knowingly and willfully enforcing laws that are blatantly unconstitutional. Yes, even the ‘Good Cops’ are, in fact, Bad Cops. You can’t -be- an police officer in this country without taking a nice big shit on the Constitution.

    2. The actions of the ‘bad’ cops. Starting at the mild end of the spectrum, with those who bend the law because they ‘mean well’, and ending with the cops that quite literally commit murder, and get away with it.

    3. The actions of all of the ‘good cops’ who, from all appearances, don’t do a single. fucking. thing. about the actions of ‘bad’ cops, and from all external appearances, actively defend them.

    4. The absolute lack of consequences for 1-3.

    Now, after that… look me in the eye, and tell me what good, upstanding, honest, decent, moral, ethical people police officers happen to be.

    We cannot have our cake, and eat it too. Just because police officers are not -aware- of the damage they’re doing, doesn’t mean
    that what they’re doing is ok.

  25. 25
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    and while I’m kicking people in the shins…

    http://olegvolk.net/blog/2013/07/05/how-police-lost-the-fight-for-hearts-and-minds/

  26. 26

    [Sorry, Jay, Akismet threw a fit and I was too slow on the trigger to release your post. — Misha]

    LC Roguetek says:

    In all honesty, in my -entire life-, all 42 years of it, I’ve never had a situation get -better- because the police got involved.

    usual results range from ‘no change’ at best, to ‘somewhat worse’ on average, with the occasional ‘amazingly fucking bad’ thrown in.

    but never, -ever- better.

    ever.

    I would guess that the situation would depend on why the cops were there in the first place.

    LC Roguetek says:

    I also note, Jaybear, that you’ve not responded to my answers.

    you asked me what I thought should be done. I told you. you didn’t engage that answer. I wonder why that is?

    OK

    LC Roguetek says:

    What do I want you to do? it’s a fairly simple list.

    1. find any and all officers of the law who are ‘doing right’, and do everything in your power to see that they are protected, and rewarded. Many of them will be in grave danger, as they will have gone against the tribe, to deal with corrupted police.

    2. Seek out, and distroy without mercy, any and all members of the blue tribe who ‘do wrong’. give them no shelter, and no quarter. refuse them any shelter, and permit them no excuse.

    That’s all.

    I have no problem with point #1. But, in a previous comment, you labeled me as a member of the blue tribe…..in point #2 you are going to seek out and destroy all members…..ALL members…..of the blue tribe who do “wrong”.

    what is your definition of “doing wrong”. who sets that precedent? you’ve painted me with a target Brudda, just felt that I would like to bypass that. I just think that you and others are going to shoot the wrong horse in this race…..

  27. 27
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    In my line of Work I’ve seen far far worse abuses than this from the “police” officers. This is kitten-play – and I am not trying to shit-on the tragedy here. I am attempting to illustrate how bat-shit out of control these low-cal Nazi’s have gotten over the last 15 years.

    If I had a hay-penny for every cop that sat on the stand and lied his ass off I’d be sitting in a million-dollar BOL situated on a pacific Island. Don’t even get me started on the bullshit they’ve tried to pass off as legally gathered evidence.

    You got maybe 25% of the “police” that are completed thugs. No better than the animals they arrest. In some cases… so much worse…

    But the other 75% – they enable the scum’s behavior through their silence. And they all abuse their authority.

    ALL of them. I have never met one that equally applied the law, or who didn’t exploit his position to circumvent “life’s little annoyances” or to be exempted from bullshit that would have ended you or I in the slammer.

    Never. Not in 36 years of watching them get in the box and lie before me, the jury, the judge, and God. It’s a good-ole-boys club – no scratch that – it’s a street-gang with better grooming and a bigger budget.

    Make of that what you will.

    But I will say this – when things get bad enough that the gestapo fully realize that no-knock, 3:00 AM raids work two ways, I will see, hear, and say nothing after the fact.

    I leave them to their well earned fates, and I will consider the men taking them to be doing God’s work – even if they are Satan’s handmaidens.

    Life’s a bitch. So’s comeuppance.

    thus always to tyrants.

  28. 28
    LC LOBO growls and barks:

    A little bit on why I don’t trust cops.
    Years ago, I being a concerned citizen and all that shit, heard screams coming from an apartment near mine. So I let the cops know. <BIG FUCK UP. As I stepped out to have a smoke, I heard one of the six or so who where in that apartment ask the cop who called them. The fucking cops pointed right at me and said "That guy there." What in the everloving actual fuck ?? Yup, the cops pointed me out. In direct violation of the whole "report and remain anon" regs in the town. Then they got into their little car and drove the fuck off, leaving me to face several pissed off brothers whom I'd interupted while they where in the process of "pulling a train". "Serve and Protect" my ass.
    And what about the Waller case ?? How many times did she call after he beat her ?? Only to hear "Scott said he won't do it no more." Or one of his other missing wives ?? The ONLY reason we even know about that case is because her parents went to the media. It happens every day. The little cover-ups for a fellow leo because “He’s not a bad guy.” and “We don’t need the bad PR.”
    And yes, the media does report the good cops. I see stories “Hero cop saves…..”, and if you really want one, look up the cop shooting the fucktard in Tulsa at the Wal-Mart.

  29. 29
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    I’ll simplify the above post regarding “police” for those short of attention:

    Fuck’em. God will know his own when they come before him,

  30. 30
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    1. Have you ever knowingly enforced an unconstitutional law?

    2. Have you ever abused the lawful authority invested in you by the public you swore to serve?

    That’s a given, although I will make a note that it is, as you mentioned, hard to not enforce something unconstitutional, depending on how you interpret the Constitution of course. There are the blatant violations of the Constitution such as unlawful search and seizure, not open to interpretation, and then there are the equally blatant, if you choose to be quite literal about the original text, which would include seizing the firearm of somebody carrying openly without a license in a CC shall issue state.

    There is no argument, logically, that the latter is not equally unconstitutional, the 2nd Amendment is quite clear that no infringements are tolerable and to even require a license to carry is, very much so, an actual infringement.

    So, logically, that is no less of an infringement, it is equally as bad as quartering soldiers in somebody’s house without their consent. Or is it? That’s a good question, in my opinion. Logically, there is no difference, just as logically there is no difference between coveting your neighbor’s wife and breaking into your neighbor’s residence, raping his wife to death, then shooting the husband, stealing all of their belongings and burning down the house. No difference, that is, if you interpret the 10 Commandments absolutely.

    Also, an absolutist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment leaves no room for argument as to whether it should be legal for a citizen to own a heat-seeking missile, an artillery battery and a nuke. Clearly, under the text of the 2nd Amendment, all of the above are legal.

    Now, you might not have an issue with me owning a 5 kiloton nuke in the garage, you would have no reason to since I’m a very, very nice guy ;), but what about Muhammed Headchopper al-Jihadi who was duly sworn in years ago as a U.S. citizen and has broken no laws since then?

    Of course, the ProgNazis love this argument too, because they then extrapolate to where nobody should have any means of self-defense whatsoever because, what if that guy was an asshole? Yeah, he might be, but to deny every single means of self-defense to everybody because somebody might abuse it is the very definition of tyranny. But I digress.

    My point being that there is a myriad of rules and regs that are against the literal meaning of the Constitution, yet we have, as a society, accepted quite a few of them because we, as a society, decided that they made sense or, at the very least, the violation was less horrid than the outcome of not doing so. Much like we took a huge dump on the 1st Amendment during WWII by telling the press that no, they could not publish our convoy schedules so the Nazis and Japs could read them too. Every single individual who assented to that would be an asshole, a bad cop, a fascist, a traitor and a scumbag who ought to die under a literal interpretation of the Constitution.

    So no, if a cop asks for my CCL to make sure that I’m operating within a law that I do not agree with but which does me no harm, I do NOT consider him a “bad cop”. But if he kicks in my door without probable cause and warrant in the middle of the night and shoots my dog because she barks at him, then I DO.

    But both examples are impermissible under the Constitution.

    LC Roguetek says:

    1. The fact that officers of the law, swear an oath, and, within hours violating that oath, by knowingly and willfully enforcing laws that are blatantly unconstitutional. Yes, even the ‘Good Cops’ are, in fact, Bad Cops. You can’t -be- an police officer in this country without taking a nice big shit on the Constitution.

    Answered in the above and, again, I do recognize your point. You are not wrong, but if we want to change that, we need to change the laws instead of shooting cops. As a general rule. If a law is passed by the swine on the Potomac ordering cops to do something blatantly unacceptable, such as confiscating every firearm in the nation, then we’ll have to decide which side we’re on. I know which side I’M on.

    LC Roguetek says:

    2. The actions of the ‘bad’ cops. Starting at the mild end of the spectrum, with those who bend the law because they ‘mean well’, and ending with the cops that quite literally commit murder, and get away with it.

    I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you say “those who bend the law because they mean well.” If you mean those who, as you mentioned in a previous comment, tow a buddy’s truck and drive him home even though he was driving drunk, then I really don’t have a big hooting problem with it. As long as his driving drunk didn’t hurt anybody. And, of course, as long as there was reason to think that said buddy wasn’t a habitual offender who would do it again and again. For the same reason that I don’t have the slightest problem with officers who have used “officer’s discretion” to not write me a speeding ticket when I was doing 85 mph on the Interstate even though I had clearly broken the law and clearly was deserving of a ticket.

    To insist that any officer who has ever bent the rules using “officer’s discretion” to cut some shmuck a break, deciding that he’d probably learned his lesson and didn’t need to have the book thrown at him, is a bad cop who should be punished is to invite the same kind of robotic “Rulez are Rulez” mentality that the Germans were once famous for.

    Covering up an actual crime were somebody’s life or property was harmed, on the other hand, is always a crime in itself since it prevents actual justice where justice is needed, but it doesn’t matter whether you do it for a brother in blue or somebody you meet on patrol that you just happen to like.

    There’s a difference there.

    3. The actions of all of the ‘good cops’ who, from all appearances, don’t do a single. fucking. thing. about the actions of ‘bad’ cops, and from all external appearances, actively defend them.

    Again: Perjury, obstruction of justice etc., all of those things are already crimes, no matter who commits any of them. That’s not even an issue open for debate.

    That sometimes cops, and sometimes non-cops as well, get away with them is because the whole bloody justice system is flawed and needs to be reworked. It’s NOT an excuse to go out and Kill ‘Em All Because Fuck It.

    As I’ve said before: The lack of consequences, at least the apparent lack in the cases publicly known (which, I might add, are not the sum total of all cases) IS the problem. It’s not that we have people in uniform to whom we’ve entrusted authority to look out for us because we can’t be arsed to do so for ourselves or because we need people who can look out for other people who CAN’T look out for themselves or could use a helping hand, it’s that the system seems to be way too bloody fucking lax when it comes to punishing those, and ONLY those, who abuse that power.

    If we could change THAT, then we wouldn’t need to be so worried, and I’m worried too, about Mickey Mouse Mall Ninjas getting away with fucking murder because it DOES happen, because they’d be too fucking scared shitless to do it in the first place.

    You’re dropping your FFE on the wrong co-ords.

    I’m all ABOUT dropping a fucking wall on the actual bad cops, just as I’m all ABOUT dropping a fucking wall on anybody ELSE being a fucking arsehole, no quarters, I just want to make sure that I’m hitting the right target, because I don’t much like the thought of bumping somebody off who might later have saved my arse in a tight situation just because he looked like somebody who’d fucked me over in the past.

    You think our Rottie LEOs think any different? You’d be wrong. You think they don’t cringe every time some arsehole Mall Ninja gets away with pissing all over all that they believe in somewhere in some G-d forsaken ProgNazi JD? You’d be wrong. You think they don’t want to drop a wall on those arseholes for tainting the uniform? You’d be wrong.

    Yet they are all, if I were to interpret your Litmus test literally, Bad Cops™ because they’d sworn to uphold laws that were, under some interpretation, in some way, unconstitutional and they’re not to be trusted. Fuck, I would gleefully take away neighbor Muhammed Headchopper al-Jihadi’s Stinger Missile and shoot him in the face if he wouldn’t hand it over, so I guess I’m not to be trusted either.

    But I’d share a foxhole, I’d be fucking honored to share a foxhole with them if the shit hit the fan.

    Just saying that you need to be a bit less black and white in your condemnations. I can assure you that we have a lot of friends in blue, some of them more outspoken than others, but they’ll be there when it counts.

    As to the others, fuck ’em and go die in a fire. I don’t have a problem with that.

    I just flat out refuse to write off good people based on the uniform that they wear, just as I won’t write people off based on the color of their skin, the size of their feet or their hair color.

  31. 31
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek @ #:

    4. The absolute lack of consequences for 1-3.

    A fair amount of blame for that can be placed at the feet of politicians – especially district attorneys and city attorneys. On the whole, they rarely bring much in the way of charges for police misconduct. Then there are the unions – when bad cops *are* thrown off the force, they sue to get them reinstated (and with damages), so cities are basically forced to keep them on.

  32. 32
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    Fa Cube Itches says:

    A fair amount of blame for that can be placed at the feet of politicians – especially district attorneys and city attorneys. On the whole, they rarely bring much in the way of charges for police misconduct. Then there are the unions – when bad cops *are* thrown off the force, they sue to get them reinstated (and with damages), so cities are basically forced to keep them on.

    Bingo.

    If you really want to make a change, shoot politicians and union bosses. THEY are the root cause of the problem.

  33. 33
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I @ #:

    Now, you might not have an issue with me owning a 5 kiloton nuke in the garage, you would have no reason to since I’m a very, very nice guy 😉 , but what about Muhammed Headchopper al-Jihadi who was duly sworn in years ago as a U.S. citizen and has broken no laws since then?

    That’s the bitch of it when it comes to rights – there’s always some sort of easy reason why this guy or that group shouldn’t have them because of what he might do or they did in the past. And there’s never any shortage of politicians or pundits willing to make a nice common sense argument as to why “If they are really good citiziens/have nothing to hide, they won’t mind this minor little inconvenience.”

  34. 34

    Emperor Misha I says:

    If you really want to make a change, shoot politicians and union bosses. THEY are the root cause of the problem.

    I don’t have much of a problem with that…..

  35. 35
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight says:

    ALL of them. I have never met one that equally applied the law, or who didn’t exploit his position to circumvent “life’s little annoyances” or to be exempted from bullshit that would have ended you or I in the slammer.

    Well I have. Not that it means that your experience isn’t true, but I have.

    The plural of anecdote isn’t “data”, which is why I usually don’t talk about my anecdotes as evidence of anything but, seeing as how that boundary has obviously been crossed here, I’ll do so anyway.

    I have, and I realize that I’m jinxing myself right at this very moment by typing this but so be it, never ever once got a speeding ticket, and it’s not because I’ve never been speeding. It’s also not because I’ve never been pulled over for speeding, because I have. At least half a dozen times.

    Must be because I’m such a lovable, huggable, cute kind of personality, because we all know how lovable I am, right? 😉

    The most memorable of those occasions was when I was doing 90 howling down, after dark, the I-20 when a Statie (not by reputation the most forgiving sorts) pulled me over. Did I mention that it was during a typical Texas gully washer, need scuba gear to breathe outside rainfall? He stood out there in the pouring rain chatting with me about how he really did understand how I was tired and wanted to get home to my family who was waiting for me but, seriously, they’d probably rather have me home 10 minutes later than not at all.

    Then he admired my sidearm and we chatted a bit about guns and then he waved me off with a warning, a “stay safe” and a “thank you for your cooperation” and walked back to his unit, soaked like a side of bacon after a night in brine.

    Fucking scumbag, bending the rules like that. I should have fucking shot him in the groin for being such a bastard. Or just because he was a cop because, fuck it, he was a cop.

    Are they all like that? No, they’re not. Are they all the opposite? No, they’re not.

    And now I’m well and truly done.

  36. 36
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Kaiser Mischa:

    They just don’t build Nazis the way they used to.

    I hope not!

  37. 37
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    A couple of things.

    I have not, at any point, advocated the death of law enforcement personnel. Nor do I intend to start. Any action against them should remain purely -within- the rule of law.

    There’s a clip from “a man for all seasons” that’s really appropriate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqytjlHNIM

    We, as a civilization, have laws for a -reason-. We employ people to enforce those laws, primarily due to market efficiency. It’s more efficient to train and employ a person for the sole purpose of ‘enforcing law’ than it is to try to add that hat to everyone’s pile.

    It is not unreasonable to ask these people to hold to a slightly higher moral and ethical standard than the average member of society, given that we have entrusted them with a -very large- amount of power, and very little accountability.

    This is, bluntly put, a recipie for disaster.

    We’re hip deep in shit, and most of you are either, A. Denying that the shit even exists. or, B. Claiming that shit is -good for you-.

    And in regards to Misha’s argument regarding the Constitution…

    The Constitution is like being pregnant. Either you have one, or you don’t. Saying that you approve of -this- violation because it’s ‘good for us’ while wildly lambasting other people for other violations of the constitution… there’s a word for that. hipo..hippo something…

    And, for example, let’s take one that -isn’t- second amendment related…

    1st amendment violations – Beating the crap out of people for recording police officers, arresting them, trashing their property, harassing them, the list is pretty damned long. To use the cop’s argument, if the cops are not doing anything wrong, what do they have to hide?

    2nd amendment violations – I’m not even going to go here… there’s no need, we all know this one by heart.

    3rd amendment violations. – while I was pretty sure this one was a dry hole, I was unpleasantly surprised.
    http://reason.com/24-7/2013/07/04/nevada-cops-commandeer-private-homes-arr

    just lovely, really.

    4th amendment. lets see. SWAT over-reach. No-knock raids. Drug dogs. DUI Checkpoints, Eminent Domain. Forfeiture. Patriot act. NSA… I could go on all night. TSA, VIPR checkpoints..

    5th amendment – Also pretty good here. We’ve not quite reached the point of the police being allowed to use ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ but it’s pretty close. See also, warrantless DNA seizure.

    6th amendment ( actually had to go look this one up) hm.. Evidence Supression. plea barganing. Prosecutorial Misconduct. I’m sure I could find more.

    7th amendment ( also had to look this one up) – the right to trail by jury. Again, see Prosecutorial Misconduct. Especially, over-charging, with the intent to plea bargain to avoid a trial (Which the prosecutor is pretty sure he can’t win, but he -can- run the defense out of money, winning by forfeit.)

    8th amendment – excessive bail, and cruel an unusual punishment… hm.. where to pick. Suffice to say, there’s a lot of meat on this bone.

    We could write books about this, many people have.

    All of these outrages have one thing in common. Each and every one of them was, at some point, carried out with some fellow who swore an oath, put a badge on his chest, and took up the title of “police officer’.

    every. last. crime. on that list.

    Either you believe in the constitution, or you -dont-. It’s not a buffet. You don’t get to say ‘oh, well it’s just one of -those- people, it’s ok.’

    I swore an oath.

    “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same”

    I don’t see anything about ‘support and defend where it’s practical’. I also note “all enemies, foreign and domestic

    closing notes –

    Misha- when a cop catches a civilian drunk behind the wheel, even in a ‘nobody got hurt’ situation, 9/10 times, he goes to jail.

    when a cop catches a fellow cop drunk behind the wheel, in a ‘nobody got hurt’ situation, 9/10 he -doesn’t- go to jail. If someone gets killed? well.. someone -might- go to jail.. maybe.

    think I’m full of shit?

    http://reason.com/blog/2010/08/27/professional-courtesy-helps-in

    Dude was shitfaced, ON PATROL. He ran over two bikers, killed em deader than hell. And, never did a day in jail. I think he even still has his job. And, here’s the part that burns everyone else’s ass. THIS IS THE RULE, NOT THE EXCEPTION!

    oh, and then he went out and got -another- DUI. it’s a standing joke that IMPD stands for I Must Patrol Drunk.

    Fucking scumbag, bending the rules like that. I should have fucking shot him in the groin for being such a bastard. Or just because he was a cop because, fuck it, he was a cop.

    Seriously, that’s what you’ve got? That’s your argument? that my (and other peoples ) discontent with the police’s general misconduct is paranoid over-reaction?

    You should have left it at #30. #30 was good stuff. Flawed, in my opinion, but still, good work.

    #35 is not your A game, at all.

    And if we’re gonna debate defending the Constitution, bring your A game.

    and, on a related note…

    Some of us have very pleasant interactions with the PD, as a rule. Others… don’t. I’d be interested in a closer investigation of what drives that.

  38. 38
    Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    In all honesty, in my -entire life-, all 42 years of it, I’ve never had a situation get -better- because the police got involved.

    usual results range from ‘no change’ at best, to ‘somewhat worse’ on average, with the occasional ‘amazingly fucking bad’ thrown in.

    but never, -ever- better.

    ever.

    Perhaps it is where I am located, but in a bad situation around here I’m happy to see the local LEOs. (Thankfully it hasn’t happened very often) The good cops in my little rural mountain home outnumber the bad ones by a large margin, and I’m counting the good souled but rock dumb in with the bad. ( I once avoided an over weight, over height trailer moving violation ticket by convincing the officer that the trailer flipped over due to a faulty pinnel hitch that broke. Guy had no business being a cop, he had no working knowledge of highway law.)

    Now this Mayberry RFD like police force wasn’t always the norm here. Growing up we had more than our fair share of dickhead power trip cops. I got hassled bunches as a young lad with long hair and a beat up truck, I was afraid to even see them…… even if I was helping the scout troop find someone lost on the river.
    My first political experiences were pushing to change the local mayor, town council and county government……… we did. Pretty soon we had a new police chief and the bad officers were either fired or chased out. They were replaced with what we have now. Are they perfect…….. not by a long shot, they are human a fallible. However the police force we have now makes things better far more often than they make things worse.

    Change the vermin at the top……. and you’ll see a better police force.

  39. 39
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek @ #:

    8th amendment – excessive bail, and cruel an[d] unusual punishment

    The police are pretty safe on the cruel AND unusual punishment bit. Most police brutality is simply cruel – it’s not terribly unusual. Guys like Abner Louima (sodomized with a plunger handle) have a claim, though.

  40. 40
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    Just checking in: did you all see this?? A real live Third Amendment case:

    https://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/03/59061.htm

    Excerpt, from a long and HORRENDOUS saga:

    LAS VEGAS (CN) – Henderson police arrested a family for refusing to let officers use their homes as lookouts for a domestic violence investigation of their neighbors, the family claims in court.

    Anthony Mitchell and his parents Michael and Linda Mitchell sued the City of Henderson, its Police Chief Jutta Chambers, Officers Garret Poiner, Ronald Feola, Ramona Walls, Angela Walker, and Christopher Worley, and City of North Las Vegas and its Police Chief Joseph Chronister, in Federal Court.

    Henderson, pop. 257,000, is a suburb of Las Vegas.

    The Mitchell family’s claim includes Third Amendment violations, a rare claim in the United States. The Third Amendment prohibits quartering soldiers in citizens’ homes in times of peace without the consent of the owner.

    “On the morning of July 10th, 2011, officers from the Henderson Police Department responded to a domestic violence call at a neighbor’s residence,” the Mitchells say in the complaint.

    It continues: “At 10:45 a.m. defendant Officer Christopher Worley (HPD) contacted plaintiff Anthony Mitchell via his telephone. Worley told plaintiff that police needed to occupy his home in order to gain a ‘tactical advantage’ against the occupant of the neighboring house. Anthony Mitchell told the officer that he did not want to become involved and that he did not want police to enter his residence. Although Worley continued to insist that plaintiff should leave his residence, plaintiff clearly explained that he did not intend to leave his home or to allow police to occupy his home. Worley then ended the phone call.

    Mitchell claims that defendant officers, including Cawthorn and Worley and Sgt. Michael Waller then “conspired among themselves to force Anthony Mitchell out of his residence and to occupy his home for their own use.” (Waller is identified as a defendant in the body of the complaint, but not in the heading of it.)

    The complaint continues: “Defendant Officer David Cawthorn outlined the defendants’ plan in his official report: ‘It was determined to move to 367 Evening Side and attempt to contact Mitchell. If Mitchell answered the door he would be asked to leave. If he refused to leave he would be arrested for Obstructing a Police Officer. If Mitchell refused to answer the door, force entry would be made and Mitchell would be arrested.'”

    At a few minutes before noon, at least five defendant officers “arrayed themselves in front of plaintiff Anthony Mitchell’s house and prepared to execute their plan,” the complaint states.

    It continues: “The officers banged forcefully on the door and loudly commanded Anthony Mitchell to open the door to his residence.

    “Surprised and perturbed, plaintiff Anthony Mitchell immediately called his mother (plaintiff Linda Mitchell) on the phone, exclaiming to her that the police were beating on his front door.

    “Seconds later, officers, including Officer Rockwell, smashed open plaintiff Anthony Mitchell’s front door with a metal ram as plaintiff stood in his living room.

    “As plaintiff Anthony Mitchell stood in shock, the officers aimed their weapons at Anthony Mitchell and shouted obscenities at him and ordered him to lie down on the floor.

    “Fearing for his life, plaintiff Anthony Mitchell dropped his phone and prostrated himself onto the floor of his living room, covering his face and hands.

    “Addressing plaintiff as ‘asshole’, officers, including Officer Snyder, shouted conflicting orders at Anthony Mitchell, commanding him to both shut off his phone, which was on the floor in front of his head, and simultaneously commanding him to ‘crawl’ toward the officers.

    “Confused and terrified, plaintiff Anthony Mitchell remained curled on the floor of his living room, with his hands over his face, and made no movement.

    “Although plaintiff Anthony Mitchell was lying motionless on the ground and posed no threat, officers, including Officer David Cawthorn, then fired multiple ‘pepperball’ rounds at plaintiff as he lay defenseless on the floor of his living room. Anthony Mitchell was struck at least three times by shots fired from close range, injuring him and causing him severe pain.” (Parentheses in complaint.)

    Officers then arrested him for obstructing a police officer, searched the house and moved furniture without his permission and set up a place in his home for a lookout, Mitchell says in the complaint.

    He says they also hurt his pet dog for no reason whatsoever: “Plaintiff Anthony Mitchell’s pet, a female dog named ‘Sam,’ was cowering in the corner when officers smashed through the front door. Although the terrified animal posed no threat to officers, they gratuitously shot her with one or more pepperball rounds. The panicked animal howled in fear and pain and fled from the residence. Sam was subsequently left trapped outside in a fenced alcove without access to water, food, or shelter from the sun for much of the day, while temperatures outside soared to over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.”

    Anthony and his parents live in separate houses, close to one another on the same street. He claims that police treated his parents the same way.

    Click the link to see how they treated his ELDERLY PARENTS.

  41. 41
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    This whole mess boils down to a simple fact.
    We have to many police officers and not enough peace officers.
    :em03:

    There is a difference.

    A peace officer’s job is to keep the peace. They use their training, experience and judgement when dealing with a situation. In some cases, instead of an arrest, they deliver a swift kick to the seat of the pants.
    :em01:

    Example, the town I grew up in. We had a chief who was basically a peace officer which was a good thing for my brother.

    In my brothers case, he and two friends, (This was right after they graduated high school), came back to see some friends. They got the odd idea to “Have a little fun.”

    Fun, in this case, was tossing a dozen live chickens into the school. They had rigged a window so they could get in, opened all the doors and used chalk to write on the chalk boards that “Chickens must be free!” The next morning, they decided to call in to the school and claim credit as the “Poultry Liberation Army.”
    :em05:

    The call was traced and they bagged one of the three of them. The other two went to the station and managed to talk themselves into getting arrested. The chief, being a peace officer and not wanting to ruin their lives, fined them a buck a chicken each to clean up the mess.

    He was actually amused by the whole thing and the fact that they had done it with no intent to do damage.

    About a month later though, some vandals decided it would be fun to smash every single window int he same school. He went after them with everything he had and threw the book at them.

    A year or so ago, a town near me decided they had had it with their entire department. They were “Police officers” and acted like arrogant storm troopers. The town meeting was rather loud I understand. One resident after another laid into them. The upshot? That night, the whole town voted their police department off the island.
    :em07:

    The chief was so arrogant that he refused to accept it and tried to sue. It failed badly. This is what happens in a small town when the citizens turn on their police and can do something about it. When the citizens, particularly in large cities turn on the police, it gets bloody.

    We need more peace officers and less police officers. Where possible, we need them out of their cars and walking the neighborhoods so they can learn who the troublemakers are, who has some issues that can be fixed with a little intervention and who will back him if he, (or she), needs help.

  42. 42
    watchyerlane growls and barks:

    What a fantastic discussion, all. This is why this blog is daily reading. Are all cops evil members of the SS? Nope, no they’re not. What does happen though is when they refuse to police their own ranks and rid their citizens of these problem officers it erodes the trust and belief in that department. Once that occurs, it becomes a purely adversarial relationship.
    I also agree that all change must occur at the top. In my town that is VERY easy because we have wards where smaller numbers are needed to make change. Instead of having to defeat a politician city wide, we can now dispatch a politician literally in our neighborhood. So, get into a tussle with a rogue cop? Go to your ward rep and complain and hold them accountable. Let that politician understand fully that if this cop is still employed by the town by the next election, you will make damn sure that politician won’t be. Politicians understanding electoral power, will see how serious you are and if found to be a serious threat to their career will make sure that the offending cop needed to retire to spend more time with their family or some other PC reason for being fired.
    Again, great discussion, all. You guys never cease to impress me.

  43. 43
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Its NOT just bad cops, its bad POLITICIANS too

    Kahr Arms Leaves New York In Response To SAFE Act

    New York is about to see millions of dollars in economic activity leave their state due to the tyrannical gun laws, known as the NY SAFE Act, that were signed into law earlier this year. Kahr Arms has decided to pick up and leave Rockland County, New York and head across the border to Pennsylvania.

    Kahr Arms specifically cites the unconstitutional SAFE Act as the reasons they are leaving.

    The Times Union reports:

    Business has been good for Rockland County-based Kahr Arms, so much so that it plans to expand with a new factory on more than 600 acres.

    The trouble, at least for New York State: The gun manufacturer, currently based in Rockland County, is expanding across the border in Pennsylvania, and in the process will be moving its headquarters out of the Empire State. The reason, according to a corporate official, can be found in the swift passage last January of Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s SAFE gun control law.

    It wasn’t so much that the measure bans certain kinds of guns and magazines, the company said. Instead, it was the suddenness with which the law was passed — less than 24 hours after being released to the public — leaving Kahr’s executives to wonder what kind of unforeseen regulations or restrictions might lie ahead.

    http://dcclothesline.com/2013/07/04/kahr-arms-leaves-new-york-in-response-to-safe-act/

  44. 44
    kmhendu growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    kmhendu says:

    I’m with you Roguetek. They always side with the State and there ain’t no denying that. WTSHTF whose side will the leos be on? I think the answer is obvious. That being said there will be leos on our side as well so the emperor’s point is well taken. I just think the majority of them will be unfriendly.

    reminds me of an old saying from the 60?s:

    “hate the cops? next time you’re in trouble call a hippie”

    I don’t hate the cops. But I understand that they do enforce unconstitutional laws right now and they will continue to do so as we slide into tyranny. Not all of them but most will because they have bills to pay and children to feed and there will be other motivating factors as well.

  45. 45

    kmhendu says:

    I don’t hate the cops. But I understand that they do enforce unconstitutional laws right now and they will continue to do so as we slide into tyranny. Not all of them but most will because they have bills to pay and children to feed and there will be other motivating factors as well.

    then we need to bounce the ones that are writing the unconstitutional laws. We don’t do that by targeting “bad” cops as some have said here.

  46. 46
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    I am jaded. I won’t lie, I was surrounded by rank abuse for years. Seen way too many clients over the decades busted up beyond imagination, who were then criminally charged for their own beating. Far too many times for my liking dash-cam footage and audio was “damaged” or “lost.” Or “corrupted.”

    “We are conducting an internal audit to prevent such incidents in the future.”

    I won’t argue that I was frequently exposed to the worst police behavior, (which has colored my opinion and views on this subject), since that was the area our firm serviced, but in seeing how pervasive certain attitudes were/are, and how they were supported even by officers you thought to be upstanding through their silence or false testimony….

    …well… you’re only disappointed so many times before you just write off the lot of them.

    Those making the point that the system is corrupt are correct, it is the upper brass that sets the tone, it is the unions that have been forcing the dirt-bags back on the cities, and it is the corrupt politicians passing intolerable laws that is the root cause of some of this behavior.

    That being said, “I was following orders” is never a justification for the sorts of behavior that is becoming more and more common. There should be a line – but slowly and incrementally, all barriers, all oaths, and all responsibility to the public is pulled away – one strand at a time has the tapestry been plucked.

    They have incrementally allowed themselves to be transformed into an unaccountable group of mob enforcers. Those that remain silent in the face of the outlandishly thuggish share equally in the guilt – their silence enables the behavior. That is my belief.

    Twas common practice for the vigilantes, (a group near and dear to my family, as they participated in stringing up Henry Plummer and Buck Stintson), to lynch not just a criminal, but those that rode with them. You had the dimensions of a grave scrawled on your door at dawn. At that point, you had 1 day to leave the county. If you were still around at night…

    So I suppose my mindset is the result of good breeding and excellent upbringing, coupled with decades of seeing the worst law enforcement has to offer. Or thinking… “ahhh here we go… this man has honor.. integrity… wait… hold on… he’s blatantly lying on the stand…”

    Quasi retired now. Blood pressure lower. Then I read shit like this. Pulls free years worth of scabs.

  47. 47
    LC Spare Parts growls and barks:

    What’s unsaid here is a dirty secret. Most police chiefs are in thrall to local Prosecutors who are really PERSECUTORS with personal agendas.

  48. 48
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Don’t even get me started on DA’s.

    Do.
    Not.

  49. 49
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Or Federal Prosecutors.

  50. 50
    Kristophr, LC growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I says:

    Also, an absolutist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment leaves no room for argument as to whether it should be legal for a citizen to own a heat-seeking missile, an artillery battery and a nuke. Clearly, under the text of the 2nd Amendment, all of the above are legal.
    Now, you might not have an issue with me owning a 5 kiloton nuke in the garage, you would have no reason to since I’m a very, very nice guy , but what about Muhammed Headchopper al-Jihadi who was duly sworn in years ago as a U.S. citizen and has broken no laws since then?

    Ermmm … don’t fall for the nuclear strawman, or promote that argument, please.

    The purpose of the second amendment is to see to it that every citizen has the same load-out as a cop or soldier, in order to check government tyranny, and promote a citizen’s militia.

    When individual soldiers and cops are issued nukes, get back to me.

  51. 51
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    LC Spare Parts says:

    What’s unsaid here is a dirty secret. Most police chiefs are in thrall to local Prosecutors who are really PERSECUTORS with personal agendas.

    Both of whom usually have their beady little rat-like eyes fixed on gaining the mayoral office.

    OT: I just created a new gun owner of a friend of mine by selling him my Walther SP22. With a little time and effort we can probably convert his wife easily. She’s no stranger to firearms but doesn’t have any real experience with them at all.

  52. 52
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    Also, an absolutist interpretation of the 2nd Amendment leaves no room for argument as to whether it should be legal for a citizen to own a heat-seeking missile, an artillery battery and a nuke.

    😀 Oh, if only. 😀

  53. 53

    Not sure if it has been posted elsewhere, but our friend Delftsman has lost his beloved Beth. So many tears in so short a time. I pray for Delfts and his family, and rejoice that our friend Beth is comforted by our Lord.

    🙁

  54. 54
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. @ #:

    Well, that sucks. Also, kinda takes the steam out of my sails…I’m done for now. A cease fire in memoriam, so to speak.

  55. 55
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    watchyerlane @ #:

    Are all cops evil members of the SS? Nope, no they’re not.

    Hell, even the SS wasn’t “the SS”. The number of really nasty thugs even in groups like the SS, the KGB, etc., are pretty low. It is the mindset of the overall organization that is the problem.

    What does happen though is when they refuse to police their own ranks and rid their citizens of these problem officers it erodes the trust and belief in that department. Once that occurs, it becomes a purely adversarial relationship.

    And that is part of why the institutional mindset is dangerous. For some groups (SS, KGB, the Red Guard, etc.) it is organized and enforced from the top down. There are a few true believers, and the rest are simply robotized by training. Other times, it is simply a slow erosion – the powers in charge simply allow the line to blur ever more to the point where what was once unthinkable eventually becomes commonplace. Then there’s the real nightmare – where the true believers and the opportunists end up feeding each other’s bad acts, which is kind of what we have now. There are some serious statists and would-be tyrants in charge, and a lot of guys who are willing to go along with what is allowed at the bottom.

  56. 56
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    then we need to bounce the ones that are writing the unconstitutional laws. We don’t do that by targeting “bad” cops as some have said here.

    As a practical matter, emperors are more easily touchable (and more easily swayed to the populace’s point of view) when they are stripped of their Praetorians.

    That said, the best means of bringing the various police forces/agencies back in line is simply by prosecuting and disciplining officers who deliberately cross the line, discharging those who are simply fuck-ups (whoops, shot a sleeping child because I can’t exercise trigger discpline!), and getting rid of the unions. Unfortunately, there is virtually zero political will to do that, and, often enough, no will among the civilian populace to demand it.

  57. 57
    LC LOBO growls and barks:

    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. @ #:
    Aye. Prayers for him and his family.

    Getting sick of this type of news.

  58. 58
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    The Administration has been busy granting waivers, delays, and special carve outs from the burdens of ObamaCare to special interests and those with Washington lobbyists, but the American people keep getting left behind. The President owes the American people an answer: why does he think businesses deserve a one year delay from the mandates in ObamaCare, but middle class families and hardworking Americans don’t?

  59. 59
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator @ #:

    The President owes the American people an answer: why does he think businesses deserve a one year delay from the mandates in ObamaCare, but middle class families and hardworking Americans don’t?

    Since when does King Putz think he owes anyone an explanation about anything? As usual, if he doesn’t like something, he just ignores the law.

    And the Congress bends over and asks for a bit more lube.

  60. 60
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    Please tell me I have gone over the edge. Last night I went (wish I had not) to the US State Dept website. The below is from my post Working group –

    On the page titled “U.S.- Russian Bilateral Presidential Commission: Working Groups” on a side bar link called “Rule Of Law” was this little gem: “In May 2011, our Presidents announced the establishment of the Rule of Law Working Group to promote enhanced cooperation between the U.S. Department of Justice and Russian Ministry of Justice.

    Topics for discussion within this Working Group include judicial assistance in civil cases, corrections, pretrial detention, service of process, alternatives to detention, and asset recovery.”

  61. 61
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    Good news! FBI agents are always justified in their shootings. Vicki Weaver would probably be surprised, but hey…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/us/in-150-shootings-the-fbi-deemed-agents-faultless.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&amp;

  62. 62
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Mike Hendrix at Cold Fury:

    http://coldfury.com/2013/07/06/tell-me-again-who-the-good-guys-are-now/

  63. 63
    bruce growls and barks:

    the cops are not your friend and will do what ever president bongo tells them to do.

  64. 64
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    bruce @ #:

    the cops are not your friend and will do what ever president bongo tells them to do.

    I’m afraid it’s going to take a disaster of epic proportions before law enforcement rotates back into peace officer mode. I don’t mean disaster like Ruby Ridge or Waco, where the targets were massacred by police/federal agents. No, it will take the reverse.

    They hit someone or a group and it backfires on them…badly. Not only is the entire rad team obliterated, but then there are follow up attacks against the departments/agencies that initiated the raid.

    As that guy Dorner showed in California, (Right or wrong), law enforcement does not handle direct attacks against them very well. They panic.