SCOTUS to the People…FUCK YOU

No matter what your opinion of gay marriage (I’m opposed) all Americans MUST have equal protections under the Constitution.

Having said that, the people of California voted, I say again, VOTED that they opposed gay marriage, giving voice to their beliefs.  When the gay lobby filed suit to overturn the vote the NSDWP Apparatchiks that control Sacramento refused to represent the will of the people, as is their lawful duty is required of them to do.  So the group that put the Prop 8 on the ballot picked up the sword and shield to do the work that the Constitutionally elected officials refused to do under the law.

Well, the SCOTUS just said FUCK YOUR RIGHTS AND BELIEFS.  Jefferson was right when he said:

When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.

The government no longer fears the people nor does it any longer respect it’s rights and views.  Things are going to get very ugly.

Update:  David Boies is saying that they are going to get gay marriage imposed on all of America…Good luck with that in the Bible Belt states…The bitter gun clinging ones.

Update II:  S&W beat earning estimates by two on sales that were over double from the same period last year.

This is not a people hording guns because of a possible ban…this is a country preparing for war.

91 comments

  1. 1
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    The next “Big Thing” for the homosexual groups will be trying to force churches, especially the Catholic Church into performing gay marriages. I have no doubt they will try and accuse the Church of some phony civil rights charge.

    The would love to see a bishop or a cardinal perp walked into a federal court. What they fail to understand is just what the reaction to such a thing will be, even among those who aren’t “Good church members.”

    It will be a violent reaction of biblical proportions.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..NSA says it can listen to calls without a warrantMy Profile

  2. 2
    LC Light29ID - The Imperial Asshole growls and barks:

    angrywebmaster @ #:

    The would love to see a bishop or a cardinal perp walked into a federal court.

    Never underestimate the fanaticism of a true Fascist. Instead of Jews this time it’ll be Christians and Conservatives they’ll try to drag off to the showers, and no, that’s not hyperbole.

  3. 3
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC Light29ID – The Imperial Asshole @ #:

    Never underestimate the fanaticism of a true Fascist. Instead of Jews this time it’ll be Christians and Conservatives they’ll try to drag off to the showers, and no, that’s not hyperbole.

    I’m not much of a Christian and I’m sort of a constitutional conservative. I won’t go to the showers without a fight!
    :em07:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Why Kelly Ayotte is a one term senatorMy Profile

  4. 4
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    No matter what your opinion of gay marriage (I’m opposed) [...]

    Well, good, don’t enter into a gay marriage. It’s pretty simple.

    [...] all Americans MUST have equal protections under the Constitution.

    I agree, we MUST have equal protection — and that includes not using the Constitution to create two classes of people. A majority of people cannot just remove the rights of a few, while maintaining those rights for the majority — that flies in the face of “equal protection”, not to mention being a tyranny of the majority. But that isn’t how the Court decided Proposition 8

    I wish the Court had decided the case, but it didn’t. NONE of the defendants had standing. The government is certainly not under any obligation to defend a suit brought against it — especially if the majority of people in the State of California would probably vote against Proposition 8 today.

    When the gay lobby filed suit

    Actually it was a gay couple. A gay couple who DID have standing and DID feel that their equal protection rights were being violated NOT because there was “straight marriage”, but because there were already hundreds of gay marriages in California that WERE recognized by the state. Marriages that were granted by the state prior to Proposition 8 going into effect. The lower courts did rule in favor of the Plaintiffs on that argument, and the Supreme Court probably would have had to also if it didn’t take the easy way out and bow out on the grounds of no standing by the defendants.

    I suspect that if the Court had upheld Proposition 8, there would have been another proposition going to the voters in November that would have struck it down. Either way, it was going down.

    angrywebmaster says:

    The next “Big Thing” for the homosexual groups will be trying to force churches, especially the Catholic Church into performing gay marriages.

    I strongly doubt it. Churches, Synagogues, and Mosques are already allowed by law to refuse service to anyone, and can’t be required by the government to perform ceremonies for people that either don’t belong to their religious group or don’t conform to their requirements in having those ceremonies. Some religions are adamant about performing a wedding between two people unless they convert to that religion or even that subset of a religion.

    But there already are some “churches” who have indicated that they have no problem performing same-sex marriages. If you have a problem with that particular “church”, then you are free NOT to join them.

    LC Light29ID – The Imperial Asshole says:

    that’s not hyperbole.

    Yes, by it’s very definition, you ARE employing hyperbole.

    angrywebmaster says:

    I’m not much of a Christian and I’m sort of a constitutional conservative.

    Then you should have fully supported the two decisions today.

    Look, take “gay” out of it for a minute, and insert “gas-powered automobiles”.

    Let’s just say that sometime in the near future, the people of California vote a proposition 88 that says from this point forward, people can no longer buy or sell gas-powered automobiles.

    You just missed the deadline for being able to buy your own gas-powered automobile, yet here are all these other people happily driving their gas-guzzling cars around the state of California. You feel that your equal protection rights are being violated and you decide to sue the state of California.

    At first, the state puts up a defense, and your case goes to court and a decision is handed down that yes, your equal protection rights ARE being violated. The state decides that it is going to cut its losses and not appeal, but a group of Greenpeace activists decide that since the state isn’t going to do its job, THEY are going to “represent” the people’s position and appeal the case. The Circuit Court of Appeals upholds the lower court, and the case eventually goes to the Supreme Court, where the majority of Justices just happen to be VERY Liberal and all drive solar-powered cars.

    They figure out that if they vote to overturn the lower court’s ruling, it puts a LOT of other cases into jeopardy and sets a precedent that they aren’t willing to set. So they take the easy way out by declaring the case has no standing, because the only entity in a Democratic Republic that can represent The People is the government, which is made up entirely of the representatives of The People.

    Now aren’t you happy that the Court ruled in your favor on gas-powered automobiles?

    I could have easily said guns, but that would have taken a few more steps.

    Bottom line:

    Same-sex marriage is here to stay. You don’t have to like it, and you certainly aren’t required to have one.

    I look at it this way: now gay people can be just as miserable as the rest of us…
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Man of Constant Sorrows – Dan Tyminski / Soggy Bottom BoysMy Profile

  5. 5
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Speaking legally here is how they will attack the churches Angry – don’t want to marry same sex couples?

    No Tax Exempt status for you.

    Watch the churches roll over en-mass.

    No pun intended.

    Just watch.

    I’d imagine that if the politicos and judges responsible for this business had to bury some loved ones or colleagues this all might slow some.

    Hypothetically.

  6. 6
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:

    No Tax Exempt status for you.
    Watch the churches roll over en-mass.

    If they tried to force this, they will see violence that will make what the RIF’s do seem mild in comparison, and a lot more competently done as well.

    No suicide bombings of course since that is a sin.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Now this one is going to leave deep scarsMy Profile

  7. 7
    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet growls and barks:

    If gays want the right to be robbed of half their stuff, be saddled with someone else’s college debt, and lose custody of their kids the moment their partner decides they’re ‘not haaaaapy’, they can have it.

    But I agree, Prop 8 is legal. See the 10th Amendment.

  8. 8
    JonB growls and barks:

    The left (a.k.a. traitors) are going for broke in this next few years. They have to. This is their chance to claim final victory over those who dare to adhere to morals and the truth. They know very well the backlash against them would be severe if they were to fail.

    Unfortunately that is not in the cards. God has turned his back on America, and its citizens will reap what they have sown (via action or inaction).

    LC Light29ID is quite right in prediction of what is being planned, but I don’t think even the traitors will have the chance to see that through. America has a much more terrible punishment coming.

  9. 9
    Muzzy - Imperial Ignorant Slut growls and barks:

    Having said that, the people of California voted, I say again, VOTED that they opposed gay marriage, giving voice to their beliefs.

    Serious question. If the people of California voted (I say again, VOTED) to ban gays from driving or owning property, would you object? What if they VOTED to deprive gay people of police protection? I’m absolutely serious. What would it take for you to object to the principle that the majority is always right?

  10. 10
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight says:

    No Tax Exempt status for you.

    With how politicized churches have gotten now, I would have yanked their tax exempt status already. Unfortunately, that just isn’t going to happen.

    I just got done reading Scalia’s dissent on the DOMA case. (starts on page 35)

    For one of those rare moments, I find myself actually agreeing with Scalia. Basically, he is stating that the Supreme Court does NOT have the power to overrule legislated law. Funny, that he decides that AFTER he did just the very thing the day before.

    Update: David Boies is saying that they are going to get gay marriage imposed on all of America…Good luck with that in the Bible Belt states…The bitter gun clinging ones.

    A closer read of the DOMA case only struck down part of the law. It still keeps intact the right of the states to decide their own law.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Man of Constant Sorrows – Dan Tyminski / Soggy Bottom BoysMy Profile

  11. 11
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut @ #9:

    That is an excellent question, Muzzy. This is where the term, “Tyranny of the Majority comes from, and no vote should determine the “Rights” of any group of people.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Man of Constant Sorrows – Dan Tyminski / Soggy Bottom BoysMy Profile

  12. 12
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    If they tried to force this, they will see violence that will make what the RIF’s do seem mild in comparison, and a lot more competently done as well.

    Then I earnestly hope they continue with their plans to do exactly that. No I don’t want to see American churches shuttered, and places of worship perverted.

    But I sure as hell wants to see some folks dead that badly have it coming. I am fully in support of any course that results in that. If these prog-nazi’s have to run rampart in every intolerable way possible to get people to finally stand up and start shooting them in their homes, hanging them on the street, and/or executing them at the grocery store, then by God, let the brown-shirts run amok until they stupid themselves into extinction.

    Nothing short of them dying and us living will save the nation at this point. Peaceful negotiations have broken down.

    They’ve known this since the turn of the century, and their every breath has been to work towards our extinction. We’re only figuring out now the depth of their depravity. The end game is going to involve one side or the other piling up skulls.

    They forced this. So be it, I am a practical person. Better them than me.

  13. 13

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    Having said that, the people of California voted, I say again, VOTED that they opposed gay marriage, giving voice to their beliefs.

    Serious question. If the people of California voted (I say again, VOTED) to ban gays from driving or owning property, would you object? What if they VOTED to deprive gay people of police protection? I’m absolutely serious. What would it take for you to object to the principle that the majority is always right?

    come on man, that is not a serious question….it’s just silly. I was convinced that the majority got it wrong in the last election. I believe that Constitutional rights belong to Americans and the American people, not cis-gendered people or LGBT people or whatever sub-category you on the left want to compartmentalize everyone into. We are Americans….period…..all Americans are equal, not any of them are special, we are equal.

    Now to address a sore point that has bugged me for a while, for those of you that are advocating killing people in their homes and shooting cops and all that other bullshit that you spew…..do you realize what idiots you are making of yourselves? God help us all if you are in the front line of the next revolution…..hell, I wouldn’t stand with you in a checkout line.

    And one other thing, there are a lot of ex-cops and current law enforcement people on this site, I saw on another thread that someone posted about shooting the cops……just keep your fucking mouth shut if you are going to say something like that, I have family that are LEO’s and lots of friends that are LEO’s….this used to be a good honest site that voiced what I believed in, but crap like “shoot them in their homes, shoot their families, shoot the cops” makes me think that the morons are running the show now not the intelligent ideaological scholars that used to post all the time……to be honest, I don’t want you on my side, you’re dangerous to yourself and everyone in close proximity to you….I would hope that you can be a little more rational and forward thinking in your advocating for revolt and setting this country right. Is that too tall of an order for you? I seriously hope you prove wrong in my observation. It’s the kind of crap you spout that will put us patriots on the losing side of the next revolution…..think about that

  14. 14
    sleeper growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    This is where the term, “Tyranny of the Majority” comes from, and no vote should determine the “Rights” of any group of people.

    This is true, and is too often forgotten by people trumpeting the results of the latest poll that supports their position.

    That said, the whole gay marriage thing was caused by government when laws were passed granting privileges to married people. The correct course of action by the Supreme Court would have been to strike down all privileges bestowed on married couples. Equal protection under the law for all.

  15. 15
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    come on man, that is not a serious question….it’s just silly. I was convinced that the majority got it wrong in the last election. I believe that Constitutional rights belong to Americans and the American people, not cis-gendered people or LGBT people or whatever sub-category you on the left want to compartmentalize everyone into. We are Americans….period…..all Americans are equal, not any of them are special, we are equal.

    Jay, nobody is asking for “special rights”. They are just looking for EQUAL rights, and that includes the right to marry the person you LOVE, regardless of their gender.

    Nobody should care if Jim wants to marry Bill, or Susan wants to marry Amy or Walter wants to marry Nancy. It shouldn’t be anybody’s business.

    Now I would draw the line if Jim and Bill want a particular church to perform the ceremony, or recognize their marriage in front of that church’s “god”. That would be infringing on the function and fundamentals of that particular religion. But in the SECULAR world — the world where everyone lives, that is an entirely different thing.

    NO secular law, no national document, and no government in the US can — or should — interfere with the inner-workings of a religion. How that religion wants to deal with the the things of their religion should be WITHIN the confines of their religion. Out in the secular world, you need to follow the secular laws.

    sleeper says:

    The correct course of action by the Supreme Court would have been to strike down all privileges bestowed on married couples. Equal protection under the law for all.

    Personally, I don’t think the Supreme Court really has the Constitutional duty to change legislative law. I think that Marbury v. Madison was wrongly decided by a court who tried to grab power for itself. The Supreme Court was never meant to be anything more than the final arbitrator in a lawsuit, not a group of un-elected monarchs in black robes who put themselves above both the Legislative and Executive Branches.

    They end up acting just like the Iranian Ayatolla and his clerics, dishing out decrees on things where they were never really meant to have that power.

    They have no enforcement arm — for a good reason — they were supposed to be a toothless dog.

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    Now to address a sore point that has bugged me for a while [...]

    :thumbs up:
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Man of Constant Sorrows – Dan Tyminski / Soggy Bottom BoysMy Profile

  16. 16
    BamaJack growls and barks:

    BLAH BLAH BLAH….. Here we go again with the badass internet tough-guy routine. The fact is, nobody is going to do SHIT. Everytime something doesn’t go our way, I read about how “you’re all preparing for war” , or just “waiting for the first shot”. None of you even have the balls to do anything, and if you did, you will be supressed and killed. We can’t even win an election that matters.

  17. 17
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    @ #13 -

    Sorry, Jaybear, but from where I sit, the police in this country have long since lost the mandate of heaven. I fear interacting with law enforcement far more than I’m afraid of Ice-Dog and Ray-Ray.

    Stop and think about that. All things being equal. I’d rather have to interact with a criminal thug, than have to deal with a law enforcement officer. And I’m a law abiding citizen. No drugs, no booze, I don’t smoke… hell, I don’t even -speed-. Got a permit for my carry piece, and I stringently obey the law on that, too. And yet, I’d still rather have a run in with a mugger than a cop.

    Maybe you should take a moment and wonder about how this came to be, because I’m certainly not unique.

    And, the reason for ‘kill the cops’… who do you think is going to be enforcing the laws the people rebel against, travelling bands of elvis empersonators?

  18. 18
    BamaJack growls and barks:

    @DJ Allyn – regarding same-sex marriage amongst the states, today’s ruling kills any hope each state may have had of retaining the right to ban gay marriage. Marriage as we knew it yesterday is dead. What is likely to happen is that one or more couples who entered into a legal same-sex marriage in a state where that is lawful will move to someplace like Alabama or Texas, where the state will refuse to recognize the validity of their marriage. So they will sue, alleging that the state’s refusal is unconstitutional under the Full Faith and Credence Clause, and the Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause. And the state will lose the lawsuit. I doubt it will be next year, but surely within my lifetime.

  19. 19
    kmhendu growls and barks:

    Leftism brought slavery, secession and sedition years ago. Now it brings wealth redistribution, corruption, and perversion . Amongst other calamities.

  20. 20
    kmhendu growls and barks:

    There is always an event that kicks off a revolt. It will happen here as well. But timing is everything.

  21. 21
    LC SecondMouse growls and barks:

    The way I see it, the progressives have managed to destroy marriage for most of the nation’s African-American community, so maybe this will improve the numbers just a tiny bit.

    I do believe that ‘We the People’ have an interest in this decision, insofar as there was once common knowledge that a traditional marriage was seen as beneficial to society in ways we thought were worth supporting. I also happen to believe that there is natural variation in gender identity and preference, and I look forward to the day we all get tired of fighting about this basic reality of life. I do not believe that granting the right to marry to same-sex couples necessarily harms the interests of traditionally married couples. I have had the privilege to know a great many people in my life, among them same-sex couples, some raising children, and can see no real difference in their values as compared to traditional couples.

    Yet we make these changes without full consideration of where we might find ourselves later, having loosened the bonds that have supported our cultural priorities. If the court should rule today that a marriage between any two consenting adults is legal, what happens when the number increases to three? Seven? Forty-six?

    The strong negative reactions of many people to the ruling today are driven by what they see as an all-out assault on core American values, with this but one small part of a larger war on many fronts. Blame can be apportioned to both sides in this situation for the rift that it has and will make.

    The vast majority of gay and lesbian couples do not want this much attention focused upon their private choices in life, just as you and I do not. I wonder how many understand this ruling as the Pyrrhic victory that it was.

  22. 22
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    makes me think that the morons are running the show now not the intelligent ideaological scholars that used to post all the time……

    Well Jay, I like to at least pretend that I’m still running the show around here, although my lack of creativity lately surely might lead a reasonable person to start wondering, but point taken :)

    And well taken too. I don’t like this anger any more than you do. I find it positively horrible that it’s come to this because, frankly, I like cops, and not just because family reunions would be extremely awkward otherwise ;)

    But there’s a reason for that anger, and it’s an anger that has been forced upon us all by the thugs, tyrants and traitors on both sides who have systematically destroyed, or looked away while others were busy destroying, every single thing this nation was built on, systematically, one step at a time. And now the thugs, sensing the Final Solution at hand, have gone completely punch drunk crazy with their power, using the Constitution as toilet paper and thinking that it will never, ever come back to bite them in the arse because We the People are way too civil to ever actually get off of our duffs and kick them in the groin with steel-toed boots, good and hard.

    I can only speak for myself, but I can say that my sometimes extremely hyperbolic, frothingly angry rants are more of an attempt to let the bastard swine know that they’re wrong before they’ll have to find out the hard way, in vain hopes that maybe, somehow, please G-d, they’ll start paying attention if they start seeing enough such rants. I’m using my rattle, not because I fantasize about biting the fucker meaning me harm, but to let him know that if he doesn’t back off, I WILL bite. I’m telling the wannabe fascists that I’ll do them and anybody aiding and abetting them grievous harm not because I want to do grievous harm to anybody, few things appeal to me less, but because we’re getting awful close to the point where it will be either that or slavery to a socialist fascist tyranny.

    Both are bad options. But when they’re your only ones…

    And I’m probably naive in thinking that issuing clear warnings will do anything to deter the creepy traitors to the Constitution, but it’s all that’s left between here and the last box and by G-d, if there is anything I can do or say to keep this beautiful nation from entering THAT particular hell, then I’ll do it, because if it comes to that last box, nobody, even those of us on the righteous side of our Constitution, will come out with clean hands.

    And, of course, I have to add that being somebody who actually knows what socialism is all about, I am not in the least bit hyperbolic when I say that the only good socialist is a dead one. Nor do I apologize for that. Socialists, be they National, Democrat, International, Communist, Liberal, Progressive or any other of the labels they’ve tried to hide behind when the last one outstayed its welcome, need to be purged from the face of this planet. I have 100,000,000 million reasons, all of them innocents murdered by socialists, to not give a damn inch on that issue.

    Socialists, in all of their disguises, are scum and need to be gotten rid of. THAT would be a cleansing that I could get behind.

    Still, I too get weary of the “let’s shoot all the cops” bullshit. As I mentioned, I like cops, and I like very much the cops in my neighborhood. They’re my neighbors, their kids play with mine, go to the same schools, we shop at the same stores, we BBQ and drink together, and thinking about actually shooting at them is pretty much absurd to me. Unless they were to make it necessary for me to do so, in which case… Oh well. You or me, partner. But I’m having a real hard time even imagining that absurdity. Again: I know those people. They put their pants on the same way I do, they’re absolutely no different from me. “Oh, Joe, just wanted to let you know before I go grab a cold one for us, that you’re wearing the uniform, so I’ll probably have to kill you.”

    Sheesh. I don’t have a problem judging everybody else I meet based on who they are, I don’t give a shit about what job they have, what religion they have, what skin color they have, what size shoes they wear, so why in the name of Cthulhu would I automatically call somebody The Enemy™ just because they wear a uniform? If their actions were to dump them in that category, yes, but their damned profession?

    Count me out.

    So I do get that. And that’s yet another reason why I persist in my idiot hope that Angry Words on the Internet™ might assist in preventing otherwise good people from choosing to become the enemy. It’s not to create an Us vs. Them situation between non-uniformed citizens and uniformed citizens, that’s the LAST thing I or anybody sane wants or ought to want, it’s to keep it from happening. Our country, thanks to soulless, subhuman socialists, has already become too Balkanized. I don’t want it to get any worse.

    But the anger among us is justified, and anger WILL need an outlet or it WILL turn into something far, far worse than Angry Words on the Internet.

    These are hard times, these are dangerous times, and if we don’t stop it from getting worse, and I frankly don’t give a hoot at this point how we achieve that goal, as long as we achieve it, it will get so much worse that we’ll long for the time when our anger only expressed itself as annoying, hyperbolic rants on the Internet.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..SCOTUS to the People…FUCK YOUMy Profile

  23. 23
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    “When God desires to destroy a thing, he entrusts its destruction to the thing itself. Every bad institution of this world ends by suicide.”
    - Victor Hugo

    Now to address a sore point that has bugged me for a while, for those of you that are advocating killing people in their homes and shooting cops and all that other bullshit that you spew…..do you realize what idiots you are making of yourselves? God help us all if you are in the front line of the next revolution…..hell, I wouldn’t stand with you in a checkout line.

    As to the foam-mouthed ranting, I don’t recall anyone in this thread mentioning that the cops are the primary targets of any potential aggression. The vehemence of the reply makes me wonder…. have the LEO’s done something deserving of being targeted? Seems to be an awfully knee-jerk response to something that was not even mentioned in this thread, although, in fairness, I’ve been so busy with… “things” of late that I may have missed some kerfuffle or another.

    As to “nobody doing anything ever,” well then, I suppose we will see eh? I sure have seen that uttered quite a bit by dictators and their followers in nations they no longer rule over. Now, let’s be clear – I ain’t so foolish as to announce that all of these newly “liberated” hell-pits are better off for the transition – but you argue with all of human history if you’re utterly convinced that there is -never- a tipping point – one last over-reach that sets off the powder.

    There is always an end-point. Every empire falls. Especially when they combine arrogance, financial insolvency, and tyranny into a shit-sandwich of epic proportions. Always. So, to say that “nothing” will ever happen is to be ignorant of example after example provided for as long as we hairless apes have been forming cities. Staggering ignorance really – you are essentually arguing against the sum-total of recorded history.

    You can do that I suppose – be my guest. I’ve heard more ignorant comments after all – “If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear” for one example.

    One line caught my eye – You speak of suppression… who will be expected to do that? Might be an unhealthy job, quite a bit different than the “fun” in the sandbox – what with the “suppressors” family and loved one’s being quite accessible. No nice big oceans and thousands of miles to “protect” the vulnerable in a civil war. No knock 3:00 am raids work both ways after all, and the enforcers still have to live amongst the cattle. Now now, don’t get all pissy – I Just point out the obvious, and draw on examples such as Mexico, Syria, Yugoslavia, and a host of other nations that could never ever collapse into war too.

    I also hope they – whoever that is – are quite good at working in the dark and in the cold. I got this nagging hunch that when the tipping point is finally hit, (and it will be), things like water, power, gas, internet, sewer mains and other such niceties might suffer some continuity of service issues. They are after all, wholly indefensible and a damn few determined folks could take them offline for months and even years at a time – and likely get away with doing it.

    Funny that.

    Sites out there are already posting up the big transformer locations, remote substations, fiber maps, and other assorted funnery. I suppose they are just blustering too? And I suppose every militarily serviceable weapon, (and cartridges for them), have flown off the shelves and into private stockpiles because the people of America have suddenly found an aggressive love for 3-gun competitions? And Owen’s Appleseed, Mosbey’ training camps, and other combat educators are booked beyond capacity simply due to a large number of Americans wanting to trim off the Christmas 15? I’m sure that’s what my nephew and the other 80 guys who spent a week in February, freezing their ass off in Idaho must have had in mind.

    Or not.

    This is a nation arming, training, and preparing for a shooting war with itself. The people see it, and the government sees it coming too. You think they are militarizing the cops and feds for shits-n-giggles?

    Naw. They smell what’s cooking – just like we do. They bought enough gold dot .40 in the last three years to shoot every man, woman, and child in this nation 5 times over. Shipping tanks to the various LEO departments. Droning up.

    You can bury your head in the sand, and succumb to normalcy bias all you like. Facts are facts, and the preponderance of the data says that the people and the government of this nation are loading up for a shoot-out.

    You can not like that, and you can say it will conclude in tears and blood and agony for all involved.

    I would offer not a lick of argument.

    What’s brewing won’t be pretty. Probably won’t end well either.

    But it’s going to happen – that much I can absolutely guarantee you. The destruction of this nation is inevitable. The only thing you and I have to argue about is the timeline.

    Nobody is happy about it – but every last institution to make a peaceable redress of our grievances has been corrupted or silenced. The tyrannical will and fist of the state has been used to suppress, silence, bankrupt, and kill those who seek to limit it’s reach, and every last damned bulwark designed to stay Leviathan has failed us.

    Except one.

    Nobody thinks that’s a good thing.

    Nobody.

    But anything up to and including death, and the deaths of every patriot in this nation is superior to letting these leftists create their 4th Reich.

    Anything. They are unopposed they will cover the entire globe in a new dark age.

    So – Prove me wrong. Show me a civilization that’s carried on into perpetuity. Go ask an Aztec, or a Mayan, or a Roman, or a Spartan how wonderful their eternal empires were.

    Oh. You can’t find any of those people’s anymore.

    Hrm.

    Fancy that.

  24. 24
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC SecondMouse says:

    Yet we make these changes without full consideration of where we might find ourselves later, having loosened the bonds that have supported our cultural priorities. If the court should rule today that a marriage between any two consenting adults is legal, what happens when the number increases to three? Seven? Forty-six?

    Family members? Farm animals? Children?

    It’s all about the precedent. And anybody kvetching about “slippery slope idiocy” can go do anatomically impossible acts on themselves.

    LC SecondMouse says:

    The vast majority of gay and lesbian couples do not want this much attention focused upon their private choices in life, just as you and I do not. I wonder how many understand this ruling as the Pyrrhic victory that it was.

    So very true. Not a single one of my gay friends have ever expressed anything less than annoyance, and most frequently something quite a bit more derisive than mere annoyance, at the “in your face” idiots of the “pride” crowd, that loud tiny minority of their community, if such a community even exists. As a matter of fact, one of those friends described the obnoxious fucktards as the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist “Church” idiots. A small group of retards doing their damndest to make everybody else look like utter cuntwaffles.

    It’s the same distinction I use between atheists (people who simply don’t believe in a G-d, a group I myself belonged to until very late in life) and anti-theists, moron fucktards who simply cannot tolerate that anybody is NOT an atheist.

    So make no mistake: This whole “gay marriage right” thing is nothing but the noxious flatulence of a tiny bunch of idiots who crave attention because they never in their lives did anything worthy of it. It is NOT the voice of gay people and they most certainly do NOT represent gay people.

    But they serve the socialist Democrats very well in creating yet another group they can use to divide us all.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..SCOTUS to the People…FUCK YOUMy Profile

  25. 25
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    BamaJack @ #18:

    You might be right. The Court only dealt with Section 3 because that was what the case dealt with — federal recognition for the purpose of federal benefits. It might be a tougher road to travel to get the Court to deal with Section 2 right now. Give it a few more years as more and more states allow same-sex marriages on their own. It will then get to the point where the Court may not have a choice but to deal with it if there are still hold-outs.

    But frankly, I suspect that within five to ten years, same-sex marriage will be all over the country as the holdouts grow old and die. Each passing year, more and more people are coming to the realization that this is no big deal — nobody is forcing anyone to fall in love and or marry anyone they don’t want to marry.

    LC Roguetek @ #17:

    Judging from what you just said, your fear is irrational. You just said you were law-abiding no drink, drug, or commit crimes. That would indicate that you don’t interact with any LEOs. Then how in the hell are you so afraid of them? They ARE leaving you alone. They aren’t in your grill or searching you or your property. They aren’t harassing you. Instead, you are only relying on questionable reports or fears from OTHER people who are probably not your stand-up kind of person to begin with.

    Cops don’t go out of their way to harass you as a general rule.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Man of Constant Sorrows – Dan Tyminski / Soggy Bottom BoysMy Profile

  26. 26

    So the homosexual lobby won the day – fine. But don’t tell me this whole ‘equal rights’ crap is some sort of heroic argument for truth justice and the American way, because it’s based on rank hypocrisy from the very get go. You can dress up and couch this argument in all the pretty sounding words you wish “equality’ ‘fairness’ etc,etc. The simple fact of the matter is – The Gay community wants the same ‘benefits” of marriage that heterosexual couple enjoy – ie. tax breaks. It’s about money. Pure and simple.

    I find it quite amusing actually, When the left finds it expedient to restrict American’s right to the free exercise of their religion via the 1st amendment and the much oft touted ‘Wall of separation between Church and State’ they make no bones about doing so. None. One need only look at the slew of lawsuits being filed en masse by the ACLU, FFRF, And a slew of others at the most minor of provocations.

    Prayer in school – Banned
    Pledge of Allegiance – Banned
    Any mention of religion in ‘polite society’ – Frowned upon, & don’t even think about having religion as part of the under pinning of any laws.

    But when it suits their purposes as it did here suing all the way to the SCOTUS over an institution that is purely religious in natures – that “wall’s” torn down quicker than you can tear down a Carolina Condo with a 5 ton wrecking ball and 15 lbs of a dynamite.

    How is that hypocrisy you ask ? Because ‘Marriage” is, has been, always will be a RELIGIOUS Institution. Now if the Left and Homosexual’s want to argue the point that the government has no business enacting ANY LAWS IRT to Marriage – federal state or otherwise – I’m all for it.

    I’m still looking through the US Constitution for that ‘right’ to be married – Oh yeah – never mind it doesn’t exist. Not for me as a Heterosexual, Not for Bill Bob and Bob Bill, or Sally and her switch hitting bi-sexual lover.

    While it may be somewhat unpopular of a stance that includes any and all federal state and local benefits. Married? Congratulations !

    Tax breaks for being so? Nope. Sorry.

    To slightly deviate here, That’s long been a question in my mind – talk about unfair – gay straight or otherwise – don’t check that “Married” box on your w4′s and watch your taxes sky rocket. No-one class in this country gets fucked by the government quite so hard as the single people….and it’s utter bullshit. If anyone has a legitimate gripe in this country about “equal protection under the law” and the protections extended to them via ‘marriage” it’s the single folks that get raped by the IRS every year because they haven’t yet joined the tribal community by being ‘married”.

    The only thing the SCOUTS or any court should be hearing is arguments to remove ‘Marriage’ from the sticky fingered reach of law – and overturning any and all laws passed that turns marriage into some sort of tax haven, quite frankly – continued Government meddling in it, and passing laws such as DOMA and others, is a violation of the 1st Amendment.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..SCOTUS to the People…FUCK YOUMy Profile

  27. 27
    LC Light29ID - The Imperial Asshole growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:

    have the LEO’s done something deserving of being targeted?

    Try this: Cop rape case highlights life-endangering outrage of ‘Only Ones’ mentality

  28. 28
    LC Light29ID - The Imperial Asshole growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:

    But it’s going to happen – that much I can absolutely guarantee you. The destruction of this nation is inevitable. The only thing you and I have to argue about is the timeline.

    It is going to happen and there’s not a fucking thing anybody can do about it. The only difference is going to be who’s the sheep and who’s the wolf…the sheepdog said fuck it and is busy building up his HESCO barriers and setting range cards.

  29. 29
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    The sheepdogs are also stocking up on grub and drinks to wash it down with. The only business booming more than weapons and munitions is emergency preparedness gear and shelf-stable food.

  30. 30
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant says:

    The only thing the SCOUTS or any court should be hearing is arguments to remove ‘Marriage’ from the sticky fingered reach of law – and overturning any and all laws passed that turns marriage into some sort of tax haven, quite frankly – continued Government meddling in it, and passing laws such as DOMA and others, is a violation of the 1st Amendment.

    At this point, you may very well be right.

    However, I will offer this defense of the tax breaks for marriage, because they weren’t made “just because” in the first place. They were made for good reasons.

    First is, coupling is good. It is, indeed, necessary for the continued existence of a nation. We don’t live forever, and if we don’t have a ready supply of babies to continue said nation’s existence, our nation will disappear.

    Second, marriage, in its original form, stabilizes relationships. I’m not talking about its current “no fault divorce”, “palimony” caricature form, I’m talking about what marriage was when those tax breaks were passed into law. This further acts to ensure a ready supply of well-adjusted, stable individuals to ensure the continued existence of the nation.

    Short version: We wanted to A) make sure that we had a ready supply of future babies to carry on our nation and B) we wanted to make sure that those babies grew up in a stable environment and became future productive citizens.

    That all makes sense. But through the perversions of original intent inevitable when you leave it up to idiot human beings to fuck it up, it’s now transformed into a state where, if you’re a male at least, you’re fucking braindead if you enter into the contract of marriage because you’re going to get royally fucked if your darling princess decides you’re not all that and, even more absurdly, marriage and tax deductions are now a “right” which, no matter how many times I read through the Constitution, can’t find a single reference to.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Fuck You, MarcoMy Profile

  31. 31

    Short version: We wanted to A) make sure that we had a ready supply of future babies to carry on our nation and B) we wanted to make sure that those babies grew up in a stable environment and became future productive citizens.

    And on a lighter note – and TOTALLY off topic – Don’t blame me for a decrease in new citizens. I had my “twopointeight”.

    The youngest of which – just made me a grandfather as of last Tuesday. I’m still contemplating my new found social status as a grandparent…At 46 – I might have to go kill them all – I see it as far too early in my game to be calling me “grampa”…fer fucks sakes – I don’t even own a sweater….damn kids these days I swear. :em08:

    :em05:

  32. 32
    LC Light29ID - The Imperial Asshole growls and barks:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant @ #:

    Welcome to the club you old fucker…I’m 48 and got three Granddaughters

  33. 33
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    angrywebmaster @ #:

    I won’t go to the showers without a fight!

    Aww, you’re gonna make Glenn Beck cry. He wants us to go to the showers with a smile.

  34. 34
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    Same-sex marriage is here to stay.

    We respectfully disagree, kafir. It is merely there for now.
    - The Religion of Peace

  35. 35
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet @ #:

    See the 10th Amendment.

    Oh, wait. You’re serious. In that case, let us laugh even harder.
    - The Federal Government

  36. 36
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    nobody is asking for “special rights”. They are just looking for EQUAL rights, and that includes the right to marry the person you LOVE

    Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
    -Warren Jeffs

  37. 37
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant @ #:

    “Don’t blame me for a decrease in new citizens.”

    Don’t blame me, either. It’s not *my* fault that I’m homely and that women have “standards.”

  38. 38
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    On a more serious note: when did marriage become all that important to the homosexual community? It wasn’t that long ago that they were using terms like “breeder” and demanding that straights should stay the hell out of their more libertine lifestyle, thankyouverymuch.

  39. 39
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    I don’t think most self respecting gay people do give a shit.

    This is a wedge issue and it’s being thumped to to draw attention away from other more pressing matters. Media would much rather cover this than… well… dead ambassadors, hundreds of dead Mexicans, and the IRS being used as a weapon to assault free minded folks…

  40. 40
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    LC Light29ID…

    Never underestimate the fanaticism of a true Fascist. Instead of Jews this time it’ll be Christians and Conservatives they’ll try to drag off to the showers, and no, that’s not hyperbole.

    Fascist fail. Too many in these categories.

    DJ Allyn, Imperial Contradictor:

    Look, take “gay” out of it for a minute, and insert “gas-powered automobiles”.

    The similarities are amazing! :-)

    JonB

    God has turned his back on America, and its citizens will reap what they have sown (via action or inaction).

    Funny, that’s not what He told me…

    [Ob]amaJack @16.

    None of you even have the balls to do anything,

    And you do? :em04:

    and if you did, you will be supressed and killed.

    To which Hemp apparently replies:

    You speak of suppression… who will be expected to do that? Might be an unhealthy job…

    I also hope they – whoever that is – are quite good at working in the dark and in the cold.

    Just so.

    We can’t even win an election that matters.

    That’s when the other boxes come in.

    When God desires to destroy a thing, he entrusts its destruction to the thing itself. Every bad institution of this world ends by suicide.”
    - Victor Hugo

    “Victor Hugo was a madman who thought he was Victor Hugo.”–Jean Cocteau

  41. 41
    LC LOBO growls and barks:

    Just lemme know when I can marry my Bible and guns.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant @ #:
    LC Light29ID – The Imperial Asshole @ #:
    I’m 36 and have *sigh* three stepkids, and a two going on to three year old that calls me Pops. No, we’re not married, the kids respect me more than they do their own fathers. :em03:

  42. 42
    The_Gemini_Wraith growls and barks:

    sigh…this shit is still happening here in Oz too. I couldn’t give a flying fuck either way, but what pisses me off is the wasted time the reps WE pay take up while debating the issue. Do or don’t, but for fucks sake just get on with it and get back to running our country (if you can call it that)!

  43. 43
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    JonB says:

    God has turned his back on America, and its citizens will reap what they have sown (via action or inaction).

    Actually, it’s the other way around. In the 60′s, we as a nation essentially told God, “Screw you. We’re gonna do what WE want to do.” We took God out of schools and society, and made abortion legal. I personally believe that God can never again bless this country as long as we have legal abortion. How can He?

    We have long ridiculed the Muzzies for their tendency to strap bombs to their kids and send them out to blow stuff up. While misguided, they do that in the name of their god and their religion. Why do we slaughter OUR babies? Mostly for nothing more than convenience. We can’t even claim it’s in the name of our God or religion. In that regard, we are no better than they are; in fact, we are worse.

    We have removed the Christian God from our society and are rapidly replacing Him with the prophet Mohammed; we are taking Bibles out of schools and replacing them with the Koran. Some schools are teaching the children Arabic for the requisite foreign language, and some are teaching the children what it’s like to be muslim.

    We have supported rap music which denigrates women, advocates shooting police, and glorifies crime and drugs. We encourage our little girls to dress up as little hookers and enter “beauty pageants,” where they shake their booties and do hip thrusts. Christians are regularly and consistently ridiculed and vilified on television and in the press, but try doing that to a Muslim.We have allowed families to break up without any thought to how it will affect future generations. Too many years of “self-esteem issues” have caused several generations of selfish, unruly, entltled brats to proliferate. Some now even run this country. Political correctness is running amok. People criticized Mitt Romney for wanting to take us “back to the 50′s.” I say, not just yes, but HELL YES.

    So you see, JonB, we turned OUR backs on Him. He’s still there, biding His time. I truly despair for this country, my homeland. I have seen the righteous in this country emasculated, with the same precision that Condi Rice emasculated the Senate committee investigating the WTC attacks. As a Christian, however, I know how it ends; I jumped ahead to the end of the book.

  44. 44

    S&W beat earning estimates by two on sales that were over double from the same period last year.

    This is not a people hording guns because of a possible ban…this is a country preparing for war.

    Those who think not can go get the popcorn and sodas.
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..SURPRISE!!!!!!! (Wait for it….)My Profile

  45. 45
    LC hilljohnny growls and barks:

    oh let’s keep harping on rights that do not exist for anyone. I had to get a license to get married. it’s a privilege not a right. or shall we push for equal rights for the blind to have a drivers license. i’m just glad I don’t have to renew my marriage license every two years.

    disclaimers

    A. I don’t care who you marry.
    B. don’t give the animal crap, animals can’t sign the form, you can’t marry your dog. I don’t care if you have Lassie’s autograph.
    C. just kidding about the blind, half of the drivers I encounter seem to be blind.

  46. 46
    Muzzy - Imperial Ignorant Slut growls and barks:

    jaybear wrote:

    come on man, that is not a serious question….it’s just silly. I was convinced that the majority got it wrong in the last election. I believe that Constitutional rights belong to Americans and the American people, not cis-gendered people or LGBT people or whatever sub-category you on the left want to compartmentalize everyone into. We are Americans….period…..all Americans are equal, not any of them are special, we are equal.

    Well…you’re not really equal, are you? Not entirely. You, on the one hand, have the right to marry the person that you love and enjoy all the concomitant legal perks associated with such a union. Your gay neighbour, on the other hand, depending on your state of residence, may or may not have that right. That’s not equal in my book.

    LC Light tried to justify this inequality by arguing that, since it was the will of the majority, gay people should simply acquiesce to it and stop complaining. All I’m trying to figure out is how far can the majority go in this vein before Light would take a stand and say “No! That’s too far.” I think it’s a sensible question. In my experience, a lot of gay marriage opponents (and I’ve spoken to a fair few of them, both on sites like this and in real life) seem to believe that the will of the majority should always be upheld. My point is that if you grant the majority the right to decide what the minority is entitled to, it’s a slippery slope between denying them marriage rights and denying them other rights, like the right to own property, or anything else. At some point, common decency demands that the will of the majority be curtailed. I’m just interesting in seeing where LC Light thinks that point is.

  47. 47
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant says:

    The Gay community wants the same ‘benefits” of marriage that heterosexual couple enjoy – ie. tax breaks.

    Well, that is a just a part of it. They want ALL of the benefits afforded to heterosexual couples — the official recognition that instead of two separate people, they have been melded into one entity for the purpose of conducting business and conducting their personal lives.

    Yeah, I know the alternative argument of contracts and wills, but here is a newsflash for you: they seldom work. Aside from being extremely costly, they won’t get you in to your partner’s hospital room outside of visiting hours, and you aren’t considered “family”. Your will most likely will be tossed out if challenged by a distant or estranged relative who challenges it. Your children most likely will end up in foster care before they are allowed to stay with your partner. The home that you’ve made with your partner for twenty or thirty years might be pulled out from under you if your partner dies because you cannot afford to pay the estate taxes on it.

    Most banks will not lend to you and your partner, and if they do, it won’t be at the same rates as if the two of you were in a heterosexual marriage. (a marriage requires just one set of paperwork, whereas the other requires multiple sets.)

    I could go on for hours telling you the things that YOU take for granted in a marriage that non-married couples in a “partnership” aren’t allowed to have.

    I think the real hangup on all of this is how some people blur the lines between the secular meaning of marriage and the religious meaning of marriage.

    This isn’t a fight about gaining RELIGIOUS recognition of marriage. Gays are just like everyone else — they aren’t interested in forcing themselves on a religion that won’t have them for whatever reason. They are only interested in the secular franchise and the benefits that spring from that.

    In this country, the church does not grant a license for marriage, the government does. The government regulates who you can marry and IF you can marry. The church can only decide whether they will recognize that marriage within their church and whether they will perform a ceremony to make it official within that church. They will then sign the secular certificate as being the person or group that officiated it for the state.

    The government can’t tell you where you can or cannot go to get your marriage officiated. It only takes two people of your choice to make it official, and the threshold isn’t that high. Some people waste their time by going online to pay $11 for an “ordained minister” certificate to the Universal Church (located in Seattle, and they rake in $millions with this scam) when all they need to do is just sign the certificate as one of two witnesses. You can find two people on a city bus or two homeless people to sign the certificate and it would be just as official as if you had your wedding in the Catholic Church with all of the trappings of GAWD.

    The actual act of the marriage being official is when you turn the license in for the actual marriage certificate. THEN and ONLY then does it become an official marriage. A few years ago I attended a wedding of a friend. It was a HUGE wedding with hundreds of guests. They went through the ceremony, had their vows, went to the reception, out on their honeymoon where they had this huge fight and broke up. They never turned in the license for the marriage certificate so neither of them were “officially” married. They went their separate ways and never looked back.

    The point is, marriage in this country is SECULAR. All of its benefits spring from the SECULAR version of marriage. It is the union of two consenting adults for the purpose of operating as one entity in all aspects of their lives.

    This is what gay couples are after. Many of these couples have been together for decades, and have had to pay a LOT more in taxes than a straight married couple — simply because they have matching plumbing. They have struggled with not having the same benefits in their business dealings, cannot get breaks in interest rates and other considerations. In most cases they can’t even be put on their spouse’s health insurance or pension benefits.

    Emperor Misha I says:

    First is, coupling is good. It is, indeed, necessary for the continued existence of a nation. We don’t live forever, and if we don’t have a ready supply of babies to continue said nation’s existence, our nation will disappear.

    C’mon, Misha. This might have been an argument put out in the Bronze Age when religions first came up with the idea of perpetuating the human race, but in today’s world, there isn’t a threat of losing four out of five babies like there was back then.

    Think about this for a moment. Gay people have been around since day one. It stands to reason that gay couples have been around for just about as long. Yet even with the fact that there are no more or no less the number of gay couples percentage-wise today as there ever has been, we are still able to crank out children at a rapid enough clip to keep things going.

    I am sure that someone could even argue that maybe we have too many people here as it is right now.

    Like I said above Misha, you are taking for granted the whole host of benefits you enjoy right now as a married couple in a secular system. Think about how much more difficult your life would be if you and your wife weren’t married but just living together. Even without your children. As a married couple you get to make out like bandits on so many different levels that a couple simply living together could NEVER achieve.

    And don’t give me this canard about getting married in order to have children. So many people get married who a) have not intention of having children; and b) are physically or financially unable to have children.

    LC hilljohnny says:

    oh let’s keep harping on rights that do not exist for anyone. I had to get a license to get married. it’s a privilege not a right. or shall we push for equal rights for the blind to have a drivers license. i’m just glad I don’t have to renew my marriage license every two years.

    You were issued a “license” because you still had to follow some basic criteria before you could be granted a marriage.

    1) you had to be of legal age
    2) you had to be marrying a person of the opposite sex That law IS changing… stay tuned.
    3) you had to be marrying someone of the same race That law has changed.
    4. you had to be marrying someone who was not a blood relative
    5. you can’t already be married to someone else

    The license is a one-time thing. The marriage certificate is the actual document that is to last for life. (Of course, with one out of two marriages failing within the first five years, that is being really optimistic…

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut @ #46:

    The “will of the majority” would still have the South with plantations and interracial marriages would be cause for lynching.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Man of Constant Sorrows – Dan Tyminski / Soggy Bottom BoysMy Profile

  48. 48
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    The “will of the majority” would still have the South with plantations and interracial marriages would be cause for lynching.

    Ahhhhhhhhhhh, the Good Old Days……………. :em05:

  49. 49
    LC_Salgak growls and barks:

    There IS, however, a bright side to this.

    Consider the sheer entertainment value of two “screaming queens” in a knock-down, drag-out (LITERALLY!!) divorce battle. . . :em05:

  50. 50
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC_Salgak says:

    Consider the sheer entertainment value of two “screaming queens” in a knock-down, drag-out (LITERALLY!!) divorce battle. . .

    Now there is a stereotype for you.

    Do you realize that most gay people tend to look and act just like everyone else. To the point of you not even being able to tell, in most cases. Only a few of them prance around on twinkle toes taking in fake falsetto voices, looking like they are afraid to break a fingernail or something. Some of the gay people I know could probably break you into little pieces if they were bothered enough to do so.

    Most gay people don’t wear drag, and most cross dressers are straight. Don’t believe me? Look it up. It might blow your mind.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Chasing Cars ~ Snow PatrolMy Profile

  51. 51
    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet growls and barks:

    Why should banks be forced to lend to gay couples at the same rate as straights? Shouldn’t they have the right to examine the statistics and consider that maybe one group, having a higher divorce rate, represents a risk that ought to be covered?

  52. 52
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet says:

    Shouldn’t they have the right to examine the statistics and consider that maybe one group, having a higher divorce rate, represents a risk that ought to be covered?

    That would mean the gays would probably have more favorable rates, because given the empirical evidence of roughly half of all STRAIGHT marriages ending in divorce.

    But in answer to your question — NO. The criteria should be on the history of the individual(s) themselves, not their sexual orientation, their hair color, their skin color, or whether they prefer basketball over hockey. I know a lot of straight couples I wouldn’t lend a nickel to — not because they are straight, but because they have a proven track record of not paying their bills.

    A lot of people work hard to build a reputation — an excellent credit history and all of that. What sense does it make to judge them for what OTHER people do?
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Troglodyte (Cave Man) ~ Jimmy Castor BunchMy Profile

  53. 53
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    As a practical matter, get ready for *a lot* of laws to be rewritten. For example, if a child is born to a married couple, the child is deemed, as a matter of law, to be the offspring of the father. Male homosexual couple – both now on the hook for child support. Female homosexual couple – neither are. The Family Law and Probate codes are going to need a lot of reworking for stuff like this.

  54. 54
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    What sense does it make to judge them for what OTHER people do?

    Because probabilities are an important part of risk evaluation. If you’re an Ashkenazi Jew, your odds of having Tay-Sachs disease are higher than average. If you’re Japanese, your odds of having Sickle Cell Anemia are lower than that of a black African’s. Crime rates, illegitimacy rates, etc. – they all vary by population. Therefore, group analysis will usually win out over individual analysis; however, individuals can influence the evaluation by doing things like getting an education, marriage, etc.

  55. 55
    LC_Salgak growls and barks:

    Well, DJ. . .

    For several years, before I got married and settled down, I lived in a shared townhouse. One of my housemates was gay. Every other Thursday night, he, and 3-4 of his (pardon the phrase) butt-buddies got all dolled up in drag and went to a club in Alexandria, Virginia.

    None of them were “screaming queens”. But I DID get the gossip, and about one in ten of his pals from the gay bar not only fit the stereotype of a “screaming queen”, but my roomie and his gay buds usually referred to them in just that term. So, I’d say the stereotype has at least SOME basis in reality. . . .

    Oh, and if you think I’m narrow, consider this: About 15 years ago, I was Best Man in a wedding of a friend of mine. We’ll call him “G”. He married his sweetheart and soul-mate, call her “T”

    Now to the kicker. BOTH are post-op transsexuals. In fact, I was the ONLY member of the wedding party with, as I called it at the time, “OEM Genitalia”. Including the Preacher. The amusing thing, is we still exchange Christmas gifts. I always send him a girlie calendar. From “Snap-on Tools”, of course. . . .

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    LC_Salgak says:

    Consider the sheer entertainment value of two “screaming queens” in a knock-down, drag-out (LITERALLY!!) divorce battle. . .

    Now there is a stereotype for you.

    Do you realize that most gay people tend to look and act just like everyone else. To the point of you not even being able to tell, in most cases. Only a few of them prance around on twinkle toes taking in fake falsetto voices, looking like they are afraid to break a fingernail or something. Some of the gay people I know could probably break you into little pieces if they were bothered enough to do so.

    Most gay people don’t wear drag, and most cross dressers are straight. Don’t believe me? Look it up. It might blow your mind.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Chasing Cars ~ Snow Patrol

  56. 56
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    One thing I will side with muslims on and that is neither of us approves of the homosexual lifestyle. I just don´t agree with how they (muslims)solve the problem. (execution)

    That said, how can any gay person support the democrats, in light of the democrats support of all things Islam???

  57. 57
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    Judging from what you just said, your fear is irrational. You just said you were law-abiding no drink, drug, or commit crimes. That would indicate that you don’t interact with any LEOs. Then how in the hell are you so afraid of them? They ARE leaving you alone. They aren’t in your grill or searching you or your property. They aren’t harassing you. Instead, you are only relying on questionable reports or fears from OTHER people who are probably not your stand-up kind of person to begin with.

    Cops don’t go out of their way to harass you as a general rule.

    Yeah, because I’ve never had a cop chain me to a wall like a wild animal, and leave me there, knowingly, and on purpose, until I pissed myself, and then laughed his ass off about it. for the record, this was over an overdue parking ticket. One I didn’t even know I had.

    Because I’ve never been jacked out of a car at a canadian border checkpoint at gunpoint, proned on the ground, knee in my neck, handcuffed behind my back, left in a holding cell for 4 hours while they tossed my car, followed by a 3 hour interrogation (still in handcuffs) followed by ‘oops, we seem to have the wrong person.’. No, I did not resist, not in the slightest.

    Because I’ve never had to take a friend to the hospital because a cop didn’t like the fact they were flirting with the same girl at the same bar, and the cop called his buddies, and rousted the entire fucking bar, and beat the living shit out of him, and held him overnight without medical care. He still doesn’t have any teeth.

    This of course, does not include all the times I did not see cops breaking the law, giving themselves, or their fellow cops a pass… you know, the usual.

    Yes, I keep a goddamn low profile. I run into a cop, why I’m just the nicest pro-cop, badge-licking sweetheart you ever saw.

    Of course I’m going to kiss the ass of someone who can murder me with impunity.

    sure, if you’re a cop, you don’t want to believe that your co-workers are scum. And hey, it’s just ‘professional courtesy’ right? I mean, you don’t want the guy to lose his job.

    And when he punched out his wife’s teeth with his service weapon, why that was just the stress of the job, upholding the law in the big city of Lewiston, Maine (interesting side note. The cop who punched out his wife’s teeth with the pistol? Same dude who rousted the bar…. boy, the police put a lot of work into weeding out those bad apples. Did I mention as of last time I checked, he’s still employed?)

    Cops are dangerous people, who, from my perspective, are entirely above the law, and will abuse their official powers with little or no prompting. They might decide to fuck me up, just out of sheer boredom.

    Now, to be fair, I’ve not had as much trouble as I’ve gotten older, and gotten better at camoflauge.

    Drive a boring car, wear boring clothes, have no bumper stickers. Do make eye contact with cops. Smile. Wave. Act like they’re your best friend. Do whatever they say. Do whatever it takes to get away from them as soon as you can safely do so. Talk, but don’t say anything usable in a court of law. Let them violate your constitutional rights with impunity. They’re going to do it anyhow, but at least you wont have reconstructive surgery to deal with.

    those of you who are reading this who are law enforcement, consider this. How often does someone who knows you’re a cop give you shit? even shit you -deserve-? Unless you’re married to em, or related directly by blood, I bet the answer is remarkably close to zero.

    Care to guess why?

  58. 58
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I @ #:

    Sheesh. I don’t have a problem judging everybody else I meet based on who they are, I don’t give a shit about what job they have, what religion they have, what skin color they have, what size shoes they wear, so why in the name of Cthulhu would I automatically call somebody The Enemy™ just because they wear a uniform? If their actions were to dump them in that category, yes, but their damned profession?

    Their profession is to enforce the law, is it not?

    When the politicians do whatever it is they do (laws that cause riots, martial law, fill in the blank) Who do you think is going to be called upon to enforce said laws?

    as I said before, “who do you think is going to enforce those laws, roving bands of elvis empersonators?”

    No, it’s going to be the police. Joe the cop is a nice guy, with two kids, a wife, and a mortgage. Do you think he’s going to give a shit about your ‘rights’? fuck no, he’s going home at the end of the day. He’s going to ‘toe the line’ at work, because He’s got a house payment, a car payment, and little janey needs braces…

    He’s still going to kick in your door, shoot your dog, and bust out your teeth because the alternative is to lose his job, and go back to being one of the powerless proles. He will, without blinking an eye, herd you into a fucking rail car.

    We know this, because it’s happened. Over and over again, in history.

    I don’t know why you, of all people, would forget this, Misha.

  59. 59
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    He’s still going to kick in your door, shoot your dog, and bust out your teeth because the alternative is to lose his job, and go back to being one of the powerless proles. He will, without blinking an eye, herd you into a fucking rail car.

    We know this, because it’s happened. Over and over again, in history.

    I don’t know why you, of all people, would forget this, Misha.

    Oh I haven’t forgotten, not by a long shot. It has happened before and it will happen again, at some time, somewhere on Earth and yes, it could be right here. Some percentage will, with near certainty, happily put on their jackboots and become Good Nazis without as much as a second thought.

    I do not deny that, nor have I forgotten, and I most certainly haven’t said, even for a second, that those fascist bastards don’t need to be on the receiving end of some massive, military-grade corrective action.

    What I object to, what I won’t do, is preemptively condemn an entire group, lock stock and barrel, just because I know that a certain percentage of them will, if given the order, turn into Nazis, because I’ll be condemning a large number of good people too, people who have done me absolutely no wrong and do not intend to do so.

    Let the consequences hit the guilty ones in the face, good and hard, I’m all for that, but I’m not a big believer in hating every member of a group just because they might be one of the bad apples.

    As to the reports we hear about gross abuse of power by LEOs across the nation every once and again, the main problem here seems to me not to be LE, it’s the utter lack of consequences for the ones that cross the line, the de facto immunity that we, infuriatingly, see in a lot of those cases.

    If that got squared away, if we finally got a system where there would be consequences, BAD ones, EVERY time, then the problem would fix itself in short order.

    Yes, I have a huge problem with bad cops. No, I don’t have a general problem with cops.

    Yes, I have a huge problem with the Westboro Baptist “Church”. No, I don’t have a general problem with people who call themselves Christians.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Fuck You, MarcoMy Profile

  60. 60
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    One thing I will side with muslims on and that is neither of us approves of the homosexual lifestyle. I just don´t agree with how they (muslims)solve the problem. (execution)

    The problem is, you are looking at this as a “religious” thing, and it is not. Most gays would reject your religious argument because they aren’t religious. Simply saying that “Jesus says no…” doesn’t cut it with someone who doesn’t believe in Jesus. Then there are those who don’t believe that Jesus said anything about it.

    LC Gladiator says:

    That said, how can any gay person support the democrats, in light of the democrats support of all things Islam???

    First of all, I have a lot of gay friends who are misguided Republicans, and will vote against their own interests.

    Secondly, you need to stop sniffing glue, because Democrats don’t “support all things Islam, other than their right to believe any imaginary friend in the sky that they want to. I would afford them the same as I would to any religion. Just don’t show up on MY doorstep asking me if I have found Gawd, or Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    LC Roguetek @ #57:

    Strange, most of us go through an entire lifetime without having even ONE incident involving a cop outside of an occasional traffic stop for speeding. YOU somehow became a magnet for trouble, which makes me question what is it that you aren’t saying?

    Most cops I know — and I have had the honor of meeting a LOT of them over the years — are good, decent people who put themselves on the line every day to keep things running smooth and safely. Most of them are ex-military who went from the military into law enforcement for the same reason they chose to serve their country.

    Sure, some of them make mistakes — they are only human. Some of them are smelly shit-stains — you will find them in every group, but they don’t define the group as a whole, and when they start stinking up the place, they are usually dealt with appropriately.

    The thing is, you seldom hear of the cop who does good, or of the vast majority of cops who had a normal shift today and went home to their loved ones, and will return to work tomorrow and hopefully make it through another day without getting shot and killed by some asshole.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Troglodyte (Cave Man) ~ Jimmy Castor BunchMy Profile

  61. 61
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    that may be so, Misha.

    But we both know there will -never- be any accountability enforced on those who enforce the law. Ain’t gonna happen, no how. Who’s gonna enforce -that- law?

    And ‘good cops’, or even ‘so-so’ cops are becoming a vanishing breed, buried under a tidal wave of entitled goons.

    The house is dirty. Don’t try to convince me it’s not dirty, -clean the fucking house-.

    Instead of bitching and moaning when people say nasty things about police officers, maybe some quiet contemplation about why people are saying such things might be a better use of one’s time.

  62. 62
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    Strange, most of us go through an entire lifetime without having even ONE incident involving a cop outside of an occasional traffic stop for speeding. YOU somehow became a magnet for trouble, which makes me question what is it that you aren’t saying?

    Oh, so I was asking for it, walking around town in that outfit?

    You’re not poor. And, from what I understand, you never have been. And I mean, backwoods, appalachian hillbilly dirt poor.

    And since it’s pretty clear you don’t understand how poverty and law enforcement interact, I’ll spell it out for you.

    Bad Cops love to fuck with poor people. Good cops just treat poor people with at best, a condescending attitude, or flat out contempt.

    Poor people make wonderful punching bags. Cop can take out all of their frustrations on some poor bastard trying to keep things running on minimum wage, and a twenty year old shitty car with a busted tail light, and not lose a wink of sleep over possible problems coming from it.

    And the great part? the poor people wont fight back. They -cant-. They don’t have the tools (money, and influence).

    See, poor people don’t have any influence, or they wouldn’t be poor people.

    And when they show up in court, wearing raggedy-ass second hand clothes, nobody takes them seriously.

    And everyone knows that poor people are just drains on the system, welfare roaches, in need of a good beating for being lazy.

    Nobody gives a shit when some poor person slides into the ER for ‘contempt of cop’.

    Now, Middle class people see a whole different side to cops. See, Middle class folks might know somebody. They might be able to hire a lawyer. Someone might take them seriously when they show up in court in a 500 dollar suit.

    You want a real eye-opener? go ask homeless people about interactions with cops.

  63. 63
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    You’re not poor. And, from what I understand, you never have been. And I mean, backwoods, appalachian hillbilly dirt poor.

    I have literally been on both ends of the extreme. I have not only been raised with the proverbial silver spoon in my mouth, I have also spent some time living on the streets with nary a dime in my pocket, and willing to do just about ANYTHING to get myself out of that situation. Some of my “friends” on Facebook come from that bleak existence, and I still keep in touch with people I’ve known from both of those extremes….

    I don’t advertise this much, but I actually am actually have a cameo appearance in a documentary made in Seattle in 1984 called “Streetwise”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj7UM-KWJS8

    If you actually take the 87 minutes to watch the entire documentary, you will actually see a young ME in that picture. Someday, I might even tell you which one was me.

    I can tell you this: Dewayne and Lulu are dead. Justin is a very successful writer now, and has met the past three presidents personally. I am one of the older people in the movie. Let’s see if you can guess which one….

    IF you bother to watch the movie, you can THEN try to tell me how much YOUR life sucked.

    Mkay?
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Troglodyte (Cave Man) ~ Jimmy Castor BunchMy Profile

  64. 64
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    The point of my statement isn’t ‘how much my life sucks/sucked/may suck in the future’

    But of course, you knew that. As usual, you’ll always grab the cheap Ad Hom, and bypass the actual debate.

    the -point- of my statement is that the various tentacles of Leviathan, and the tentacle known as ‘law enforcement’ in particular, treat people -very differently- based on their socioeconomic status.

    when you said earlier, “I wonder what you’re not telling us” (I love your implication that I’m lying, it was very clean thrust), the ‘what I wasn’t telling you’ was that I was from the ‘dirt poor’ end of the social spectrum.

    And the dirt poor are always fair game.

    You on the other hand, even when you were ‘pennyless’ always had the option to run home to mommy. Secondly, being raised ‘with a silver spoon in your mouth’ , you carry all the behavioral markers of an upper class person. Cops are not stupid, they can read that shit.

    One of the ways I stopped getting so much ‘traffic’ from the cops was I learned how to mimic middle class mannerisms well enough to ‘pass’

    “IF you bother to watch the movie, you can THEN try to tell me how much YOUR life sucked.”

    Dude, seriously? Who are you trying to channel here, markadelphia?

    This isn’t about -me-, it’s about the actions of other people.

    You commented that I had no leg to stand on because I had not personally seen any examples of police misconduct.

    When I cited personal examples, You claimed it must be because I’m doing something bad/evil/wicked/unlawful to attract such attention.

    In short, typical you. Fortunately for me, I rarely fall prey to taking your bait anymore.

    Anyhow, the -point- is that the reason most of you don’t -see- this behavior is because cops dont pick on people who might have powerful friends or who might be able to afford lawyers.

  65. 65
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    You on the other hand, even when you were ‘pennyless’ always had the option to run home to mommy. Secondly, being raised ‘with a silver spoon in your mouth’ ,

    Boy, do YOU make a lot of assumptions there.

    Here is a hint for you:

    My dad is now 102 years old and is suffering from late stages of Alzheimer’s (102 as of Thursday, BTW). I have been estranged from him until just about a year ago. My mother, who is 97, I haven’t seen or talked to since 1966, the same time I went without seeing my dad. When I visit my dad, I make sure that I don’t pass paths with her.

    I have my reasons for not connecting with them, as do all but one of my siblings.

    So yes, I HAVE been on both sides of the spectrum. I have been “up” and I have hit rock bottom — a couple of times. I have also pulled myself up by my own bootstraps a few times also.

    There have been a few times when i could identify with the cartoon character, Joe Btfsplk (look him up, since I doubt you know who the character is). Trust me, I could probably sit here and complain about MUCH more in my life than you can and actually mean it. But what the fuck good is any of that going to do?

    Shit happens in life. It happens when you least expect it. Some people never experience it at all. I could have sat and lamented over how “unfair” life was,but I am not built that way. If I am in a shitty situation, I will do whatever is necessary to get OUT of that shitty situation by whatever it takes.

    And that is exactly how I have lived my life. If something or someone isn’t helping me to climb, then I consider them part of the problem and I find help elsewhere. But in the long run, I WILL find that help and I WILL climb up and out.

    Yeah, I have been “hassled” before. But I learned early on that I deserved that hassling, and if I wanted it to stop, then I had to stop being a target for cops. Because I figured that out pretty quick, I was spared a lot of grief.

    YOUR story tells me that there IS a lot more to your hassles than you are sharing.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Troglodyte (Cave Man) ~ Jimmy Castor BunchMy Profile

  66. 66
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek:

    And the great part? the poor people wont fight back. They -cant-. They don’t have the tools (money, and influence).

    Not my idea of tools for fighting. If I’m in trouble, I’d rather it be for something I actually did. As Capt. Picard said:

    If we’re to be damned, let’s be damned for what we actually are.

  67. 67
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Xystus @ #:

    Yes, the tools needed to fight effectively in court are influence, and money. I never said this was a good thing, only that it was a true thing.

    We can hate it all we want ( I certainly do) but it won’t change the fact that that’s just the way things are.

  68. 68
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    Here we go again.

    Boy, do YOU make a lot of assumptions there.

    I only base what I think I know about you on what I’ve heard about you, corroborated by at least one other source.

    Here is a hint for you:

    My dad is now 102 years old and is suffering from late stages of Alzheimer’s (102 as of Thursday, BTW). I have been estranged from him until just about a year ago. My mother, who is 97, I haven’t seen or talked to since 1966, the same time I went without seeing my dad. When I visit my dad, I make sure that I don’t pass paths with her.

    I have my reasons for not connecting with them, as do all but one of my siblings.

    This isn’t terribly relevant, why are you wasting my time with it?

    So yes, I HAVE been on both sides of the spectrum. I have been “up” and I have hit rock bottom — a couple of times. I have also pulled myself up by my own bootstraps a few times also.

    Still not relevant to the topic at hand. But then, I understand. Your style of ‘debate’ is never to actually engage the other person. You just talk past them. You assign faults and flaws to them, and attack those faults and flaws. Because, if the -person- is wrong, then their argument must be wrong as well. For someone as experienced as your claim to be, I would have thought that you would have developed better, or at least slightly more honest debating skills.

    There have been a few times when i could identify with the cartoon character, Joe Btfsplk (look him up, since I doubt you know who the character is). Trust me, I could probably sit here and complain about MUCH more in my life than you can and actually mean it. But what the fuck good is any of that going to do?

    There you go again, thinking it’s about who’s having a harder life. Because being the victim is so virtuous, and makes your argument more correct or some bullshit. I’m not here to measure misery dicks. I’ve said it repeatedly, but, as usual, you can’t be bothered to actually -engage- what I say. You just invent an attackable position, claim it’s mine, and attack it.

    Shit happens in life. It happens when you least expect it. Some people never experience it at all. I could have sat and lamented over how “unfair” life was,but I am not built that way. If I am in a shitty situation, I will do whatever is necessary to get OUT of that shitty situation by whatever it takes.

    But you’ll sit here and get into a misery dick measuring contest for the purposes of ‘winning an arguement’. Oh, and you’re also full of it. “Doing whatever is necessary” is a phrase a lot of people like to use, but one very few people really grasp.

    And that is exactly how I have lived my life. If something or someone isn’t helping me to climb, then I consider them part of the problem and I find help elsewhere. But in the long run, I WILL find that help and I WILL climb up and out.

    Good for you. You apparently can at least write something approaching common sense from time to time. Even if you seem incapable of actually using it. I’m sure someone, somewhere, is very proud of you.

    Yeah, I have been “hassled” before. But I learned early on that I deserved that hassling, and if I wanted it to stop, then I had to stop being a target for cops. Because I figured that out pretty quick, I was spared a lot of grief.

    “He wouldn’t hit me if I was a better wife.”

    YOUR story tells me that there IS a lot more to your hassles than you are sharing.

    Ahh, and now we’re back to ‘you must be lying’. Tell you what, why don’t you take your super computer detective powers, and go ahead and pull up my personal information, and find out for yourself what I ‘must be hiding’. I mean, since you’ve talked so much shit about how awesome you are at it in the past. By all means, ‘send me a pizza’. Find out my dark secret. Out me to the world as a secretly horrible person, trying to pass as a law abiding citizen, only to be foiled again by that meddling Officer Friendly.

    Seriously, I dare you.

    I will however, give you a hint. The secret ingredient in “Roguetek’s bad cop attractant formula” is -there is no secret ingredient-.

    In closing, because I have more important things to do ( the toilet really needs a good cleaning.) I’m going to touch a few key points.

    1. Policemen do not treat all classes of people in the US to the same standard. They treat those they believe incapable of retaliation with a much harsher hand. People who are not in the ‘lower classes’ will (almost) never see this.

    2. Due to a complete lack of consequences for bad behavior, Police officers who -should- be fired, arrested, tried, and jailed… are not. They’re left in place to continue to taint the culture of law enforcement.

  69. 69
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Obamas Amerikka 2013

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX6_QWieZlU&feature=youtu.be

  70. 70
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Oh, I forgot.

    3. The people of The United States of America will, at some point, reject the over-reach of our political ‘Masters’. The police will be used as a blunt instrument to beat the proles back into line.

    4. The proles know this, which is why you have such a strong anti-police sentiment these days.

    5. Said proles are pretty damned certain that the ‘certain percentage that will turn into nazis’ will be in the 80% plus range.

    So, since the Police will cheerfully throw both the patriots and the proles to the wolves to save their own asses, why are we liking them so much again?

  71. 71
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek:

    Yes, the tools needed to fight effectively in court are influence, and money.

    I wasn’t referring to court battles.

  72. 72
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek @ #:

    2. Due to a complete lack of consequences for bad behavior, Police officers who -should- be fired, arrested, tried, and jailed… are not. They’re left in place to continue to taint the culture of law enforcement.

    The best example of that? The famed “Exclusionary Rule”. Violation of an accused’s Constitutional rights simply prevents the use of the improperly obtained evidence against the accused; the offending officer(s) go on their merry way.

  73. 73
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Also… DA’s who file stupid cases… like this one.

    http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teen-charged-with-making-terroristic-threat-after-online-joke-212931111.html

    TL, DR version –

    Kid makes dumb comment about shooting up a school ,and eating his victims hearts, followed by ‘lol, j/k’

    Canadian woman gets panties in knot, googles the boy down, and calls the cops.

    He’s looking at 8 years.

    Can someone explain to me, in small words, how this managed to get to this point without someone involved saying ‘this is fucking retarded, we need to stop’?

  74. 74
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek @ #:

    Can someone explain to me, in small words, how this managed to get to this point without someone involved saying ‘this is fucking retarded, we need to stop’?

    Because we let it happen. You want to stop this? It’s to late now to go through the system. For this case, a large group of people need to pay the prosecutor a visit and flat out threaten to hang them if they don’t drop the charges, publicly apologize and then resign.

    You also need the willingness to carry this out. This is why you need hundreds, or thousands showing up at their offices to encourage them to do the right thing.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Review: World War ZMy Profile

  75. 75
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek @ #:

    Can someone explain to me, in small words, how this managed to get to this point without someone involved saying ‘this is fucking retarded, we need to stop’?

    Money, power, and hubris.

    Money – there’s a good buck in the outrage market, especially on the Left side, but the pundits on the Right probably aren’t pinching pennies, either.

    Power – the government loves to expand control over behavior, thought, and speech. Control those, and you control the populace. Groups that profit from outrage like to expand their power to influence the government whenever possible. If a group becomes good enough at it, they basically create policy: Planned Parenthood, Southern Preposterous Lie Center, etc.

    Hubris – just about everyone thinks their opinions matter and their feelings need validation. In reality, most of us aren’t worth the powder it would take to blow us up. Not that we aren’t decent folks, or are without value, we – like most people throughout history – don’t really matter that much in the grand scheme of things.

  76. 76

    Emperor Misha I says:

    Well Jay, I like to at least pretend that I’m still running the show around here, although my lack of creativity lately surely might lead a reasonable person to start wondering, but point taken

    thanks Boss, was hoping that I would get your attention with that rant.

    Emperor Misha I says:

    I can only speak for myself, but I can say that my sometimes extremely hyperbolic, frothingly angry rants are more of an attempt to let the bastard swine know that they’re wrong before they’ll have to find out the hard way, in vain hopes that maybe, somehow, please G-d, they’ll start paying attention if they start seeing enough such rants. I’m using my rattle, not because I fantasize about biting the fucker meaning me harm, but to let him know that if he doesn’t back off, I WILL bite. I’m telling the wannabe fascists that I’ll do them and anybody aiding and abetting them grievous harm not because I want to do grievous harm to anybody, few things appeal to me less, but because we’re getting awful close to the point where it will be either that or slavery to a socialist fascist tyranny.

    but you don’t advocate wholesale slaughter or citizens or LEO’s……THAT’S the difference here.

    LC Roguetek says:

    Sorry, Jaybear, but from where I sit, the police in this country have long since lost the mandate of heaven. I fear interacting with law enforcement far more than I’m afraid of Ice-Dog and Ray-Ray.

    well, what happened to all that high and mighty talk about “keeping the oath”? didn’t the cops take an oath? if they don’t keep theirs, then do you hold the military in the same wary contempt? if not, why not?

    LC Roguetek says:

    And, the reason for ‘kill the cops’… who do you think is going to be enforcing the laws the people rebel against, travelling bands of elvis empersonators?

    depends on how you intent to rebel. If, like Hemp and Bruce and a few other hotheads advocate, you are going to go into progs houses and kill them and their families in the name of taking this country back….then you get what’s coming to you. That would be the American version of ethnic cleansing or the final solution, and it won’t be good for our side in any way.

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    Jay, nobody is asking for “special rights”. They are just looking for EQUAL rights, and that includes the right to marry the person you LOVE, regardless of their gender.

    some of them are already bitching about the taxes and penalties they are going to pay now that they can get married…..I say, welcome to equality y’all, you’re not special anymore.

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    Well…you’re not really equal, are you? Not entirely. You, on the one hand, have the right to marry the person that you love and enjoy all the concomitant legal perks associated with such a union. Your gay neighbour, on the other hand, depending on your state of residence, may or may not have that right. That’s not equal in my book.

    but you have no problem with an all encompassing federal government deciding issues like this? against the majority will of the people? If not majority rule then what? a monarchy?

  77. 77
    Muzzy - Imperial Ignorant Slut growls and barks:

    jaybear:

    but you have no problem with an all encompassing federal government deciding issues like this? against the majority will of the people? If not majority rule then what? a monarchy?

    I believe that everybody should be allowed to do exactly as they please in all aspects of life provided that they don’t infringe on anybody else’s rights in the process. All drugs should be legal. Prostitution should be legal. Businesses should be allowed to treat with one another in any way they deem mutually beneficial (remembering, of course, the caveat about respecting other people’s rights) and gay people should be free to marry the people that they love.

    Now, gay marriage opponents love to argue that gay marriage will somehow taint or weaken their own marriage, or destroy the concept of marriage altogether. I have never, ever seen the slightest tangible evidence that this is even close to true. There are numerous countries in Europe where gays have been allowed to marry (not “unionise” but actually marry) for years and years and their social infrastructure is still very much intact, and life goes on just as it always has. I think that since there’s no evidence that gay marriage infringes on anybody else’s rights, we have no business telling them they can’t do it.

    Majoritarianism is a sound guiding principle in many aspects of government, but we cannot use it to decide what rights minority groups are entitled to. The majority is not always right. It is not always wise. And, indeed, a cursory glance at history reveals that it is frequently downright evil Consider the fact that, almost without exception, every pogrom, every witch hunt, and every genocide ever enacted was carried out with the blessing, implicit or explict, of the majority of people in that time and place. For instance, while I readily accept that the majority of Germans didn’t know about the holocaust, a majority certainly did know about the Krystallnacht and other atrocities, and they couldn’t have been carried out without their tacit approval. Indeed, the Nazis were first elected on an explicitly anti-semetic platform.

    When it comes to civil rights, we simply can’t afford to let a potentially capricious majority dictate the status quo. We need another principle. I think the best one is simply “Do unto others”. Would we want gay people telling us whether we’re allowed to marry or not? Of course not. We should thus extent them the same courtesy.

  78. 78

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    I believe that everybody should be allowed to do exactly as they please in all aspects of life provided that they don’t infringe on anybody else’s rights in the process. All drugs should be legal. Prostitution should be legal. Businesses should be allowed to treat with one another in any way they deem mutually beneficial (remembering, of course, the caveat about respecting other people’s rights) and gay people should be free to marry the people that they love.

    Great, tell that to the all intrusive government that you have in the majority of European countries and what we are in the process of establishing here.

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    Now, gay marriage opponents love to argue that gay marriage will somehow taint or weaken their own marriage, or destroy the concept of marriage altogether. I have never, ever seen the slightest tangible evidence that this is even close to true. There are numerous countries in Europe where gays have been allowed to marry (not “unionise” but actually marry) for years and years and their social infrastructure is still very much intact, and life goes on just as it always has. I think that since there’s no evidence that gay marriage infringes on anybody else’s rights, we have no business telling them they can’t do it.

    there is a flip side to that…..if we, aka the majority, cannot tell them what they can do or accept then they should not dictate to us what we can do or accept. The argument was made that the reason gays overwhelmingly want to be married is to be included in the benefits that go along with marriage, that is the argument that was put forth by gay marriage advocates and the politicians that advocated for it. Now, once the truth is being told about the tax penalties and other financial burdens that come with being married, all of these people are bitching about how unfair the system is…..what I say about that is:

    welcome to equality, you’re not special anymore….you’re equal to

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    Majoritarianism is a sound guiding principle in many aspects of government, but we cannot use it to decide what rights minority groups are entitled to. The majority is not always right. It is not always wise. And, indeed, a cursory glance at history reveals that it is frequently downright evil Consider the fact that, almost without exception, every pogrom, every witch hunt, and every genocide ever enacted was carried out with the blessing, implicit or explict, of the majority of people in that time and place. For instance, while I readily accept that the majority of Germans didn’t know about the holocaust, a majority certainly did know about the Krystallnacht and other atrocities, and they couldn’t have been carried out without their tacit approval. Indeed, the Nazis were first elected on an explicitly anti-semetic platform.

    I have problems with your history there, the German people were fed a bill of goods by the National Socialist party. They were fed a lie about the prosperity that would follow once the moneylenders….aka the Jews……were taken out of positions of power and influence. They were a starving and poverty stricken people suffering under runaway inflation and needed a bad guy to blame it on, so the National Socialists promised a better future but didn’t tell them how that future would unfold. If they had read Mein Kampf they would have seen what Hitler had in mind. The National Socialists used fear to keep people blind and in line, many many people who lived in close proximity to the extermination camps claimed to have never smelled anything or seen anything….those that did tell the truth went conveniently missing. HItler wasn’t elected by a majority, he assumed parliamentary control and took advantage of divided and bickering opposition parties to firm up his control. Neither he nor his party achieved a majority of the vote in elections.

    That is an example of non-majority rule…..what would you replace it with?

  79. 79
    Muzzy - Imperial Ignorant Slut growls and barks:

    Jaybear wrote:

    Great, tell that to the all intrusive government that you have in the majority of European countries and what we are in the process of establishing here.

    Consider them told. Don’t worry, they listen to me :-)

    there is a flip side to that…..if we, aka the majority, cannot tell them what they can do or accept then they should not dictate to us what we can do or accept. The argument was made that the reason gays overwhelmingly want to be married is to be included in the benefits that go along with marriage, that is the argument that was put forth by gay marriage advocates and the politicians that advocated for it. Now, once the truth is being told about the tax penalties and other financial burdens that come with being married, all of these people are bitching about how unfair the system is…..what I say about that is:

    welcome to equality, you’re not special anymore….you’re equal to

    Can’t disagree with a word of that. I’m all for equality, but you’ve got to take it, like marriage itself, for better or worse. If there are any gay people out there vying for equal marriage rights but simultaneously insisting they be exempt from any tax penalties, I’m supremely confident they’ll be safely ignored. After all, the government isn’t in the habit of letting people wriggle out of their tax burdens.

    I have problems with your history there, the German people were fed a bill of goods by the National Socialist party. They were fed a lie about the prosperity that would follow once the moneylenders….aka the Jews……were taken out of positions of power and influence. They were a starving and poverty stricken people suffering under runaway inflation and needed a bad guy to blame it on, so the National Socialists promised a better future but didn’t tell them how that future would unfold.

    Again, I agree here, but I believe the example still shows the danger of allowing the majority to dictate what rights minorities are allowed to possess. While the German people were undeniably in dire straits, the Nazis hardly went out of their way to disguise the anti-semetic elements of their platform. The Nazi manifesto had 25 points, the fourth of which was:

    “Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.”

    There were other anti-Jewish points in the manifesto, but that’s the main one. If a party riding on such a poisonous platform is capable of bullying or scamming enough voters to form a governmental majority, that alone is reason enough to oppose any attempt to empower the majority to dictate the rights of minority groups.

    You make a good point when you say that Hitler wasn’t elected by an absolute majority. I had forgotten that. But imagine if he had been elected by an absolute majority. It was certainly possible. Unless you mean to argue that no racist, anti-semetic, or otherwise prejudiced dictator could possibly win a majority of any national vote, you should, I think, concur that allowing the majority to decide what minorities can and cannot do is potentially a recipe for disaster.

  80. 80

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    Unless you mean to argue that no racist, anti-semetic, or otherwise prejudiced dictator could possibly win a majority of any national vote, you should, I think, concur that allowing the majority to decide what minorities can and cannot do is potentially a recipe for disaster.

    we seem to have a lot of common ground here, but again I beg the question…..

    what would you replace majority rule with?

  81. 81
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    what would you replace majority rule with?

    Well, there is this Emperor I know that may be available.
    :em05:
    :em01:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Has Sarah Palin had it with the GOP?My Profile

  82. 82

    angrywebmaster says:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:
    what would you replace majority rule with?
    Well, there is this Emperor I know that may be available.

    angrywebmaster recently posted..Has Sarah Palin had it with the GOP?

    I’ll design the campaign banners and signs…..

  83. 83
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    First of all, Hi there! Long time no see. I thought this thread was dead, so I haven’t been paying attention to it, so I missed your comment till just now

    well, what happened to all that high and mighty talk about “keeping the oath”? didn’t the cops take an oath? if they don’t keep theirs, then do you hold the military in the same wary contempt? if not, why not?

    For starters, The military never signed on to be police. They’ve signed on to be military, and so far, seem to be doing their jobs, for the most part, and within required moral and ethical boundaries. Also, when a soldier ‘crosses the line’, there’s a whole crowd of official people lining up to break one off in his ass. The media is rife with examples of soldiers we have aggressively punished for breaking the law.

    The police, on the other hand, -did- sign up to be police. And part of being police is that YOU ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW. Well, in theory, at any rate. We know how that works out in practice. Police break the law with wild abandon, with little to no consequence.

    Also, to refer to the bit where I got sidetracked by DJ, the police are particularly abusive to people who can’t fight back.

    To make things even worse, there’s no time in human history, when a government has ‘gone bad’ where the police have not gotten right on board with it, no problem.

  84. 84
    LC hilljohnny growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:
    guitar man 3:42 :)

  85. 85
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    I’ll design the campaign banners and signs…..

    And so begins the “Draft Misha!” movement :em01:
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  86. 86
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    thanks Boss, was hoping that I would get your attention with that rant.

    You bet, Jay. Not just because it was a righteous one, but also because it cuts close to home because, G-d knows, I have found myself pushed to the very extremes of hyperbole and beyond by my anger at what the bastards are doing to our beloved nation. But that’s what it is: Anger and hyperbole. At least it is for me and I dearly hope so for others as well, because otherwise you’re right: We’d be becoming that which we rightfully hate and despise.

    Those who actually choose or have chosen to betray our nation and commit crimes I have no compassion for. They will know no mercy from me. But I will not make myself guilty of crimes as bad as theirs and worse just to make sure that we “get all of ‘em.”

    Those in need of “corrective action” will either make themselves known or will have already done so. So be it. On their own hands be their own blood. The rest, those who have done no wrong, no matter how much I might suspect that they might one day, will suffer no harm at my hands.

    angrywebmaster says:

    Well, there is this Emperor I know that may be available.

    Well, we have sort of already established by precedent that being native born is not a requirement, haven’t we? Or at least that you’re native born if you say that you are, you don’t have to actually prove it.

    It’d be fun though. Poor oppo research goons will die from exhaustion with all of the material they’ll have to work with.

    “You have heard the opposition say that I, if elected, will entangle our nation in needless, long and costly wars. This is not true. Nations who do us no harm will have nothing to fear from us. Those who do will start glowing in the dark, which will take us at most an afternoon and cost us the GDP equivalent of bus fare. Next question?” ;)
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Obama, McCain’s Syrian Allies Behead Catholic PriestMy Profile

  87. 87
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I @ #:

    It’d be fun though. Poor oppo research goons will die from exhaustion with all of the material they’ll have to work with.

    And the research wouldn’t mean much since you wouldn’t try to walk away from it.

    “Yep, I said that and I meant it. Next question?” :em07:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..The Declaration of IndependenceMy Profile

  88. 88
    Muzzy - Imperial Ignorant Slut growls and barks:

    Jaybear wrote:

    we seem to have a lot of common ground here, but again I beg the question…..

    what would you replace majority rule with?

    For the vast bulk of things? Absolutely nothing. Majority rule is, generally speaking, the sensible way to go. The massive exception, however, is when we’re talking about civil rights. The majority has no place whatsoever deciding that. In fact, I think that to talk about who should decide what rights groups X, Y, and Z are allowed to have is to think about the issue in the wrong way. No group, not even the majority, should be given that kind of power. The default should simply be maximum liberty for absolutely everyone, provided that one does not step on anyone else’s toes in the exercise of that liberty. Since we’re talking about gay marriage, the question should be “If gays get married, would anybody else’s rights be infringed upon?” If the answer is no, as I believe it to be, then they should be able to get married.

    P.S. – Happy 4th of July!

  89. 89

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    The massive exception, however, is when we’re talking about civil rights. The majority has no place whatsoever deciding that. In fact, I think that to talk about who should decide what rights groups X, Y, and Z are allowed to have is to think about the issue in the wrong way. No group, not even the majority, should be given that kind of power. The default should simply be maximum liberty for absolutely everyone, provided that one does not step on anyone else’s toes in the exercise of that liberty.

    I’m good with that up to a point, there is a lot of debate about what is a civil right and what is not…..who determines just what exactly is a civil right? a judge? a court? a special interest group? are they written down somewhere?

    The way I see it is that you are free to do what you want within bounds, if you endanger someone or restrict the freedom of someone or harm someone physically or materially then you are operating outside your freedoms and rights and damaging mine. That being said, I should NOT be REQUIRED to accept anything that I disagree with, including things like gay marriage or gun control. To mandate my compliance with those things violates my civil rights. Live and let live, if I disagree with you then so be it………I have that right

    Muzzy – Imperial Ignorant Slut says:

    P.S. – Happy 4th of July!

    thank you sir

  90. 90
    LC LOBO growls and barks:

    LAS VEGAS (CN) – Henderson police arrested a family for refusing to let officers use their homes as lookouts for a domestic violence investigation of their neighbors, the family claims in court.

    Thems some nice cops there.

    “On the morning of July 10th, 2011, officers from the Henderson Police Department responded to a domestic violence call at a neighbor’s residence,” the Mitchells say in the complaint.
    It continues: “At 10:45 a.m. defendant Officer Christopher Worley (HPD) contacted plaintiff Anthony Mitchell via his telephone. Worley told plaintiff that police needed to occupy his home in order to gain a ‘tactical advantage’ against the occupant of the neighboring house. Anthony Mitchell told the officer that he did not want to become involved and that he did not want police to enter his residence. Although Worley continued to insist that plaintiff should leave his residence, plaintiff clearly explained that he did not intend to leave his home or to allow police to occupy his home. Worley then ended the phone call.

    I guess that they don’t understand the word “No”.

    The complaint continues: “Defendant Officer David Cawthorn outlined the defendants’ plan in his official report: ‘It was determined to move to 367 Evening Side and attempt to contact Mitchell. If Mitchell answered the door he would be asked to leave. If he refused to leave he would be arrested for Obstructing a Police Officer. If Mitchell refused to answer the door, force entry would be made and Mitchell would be arrested.’”

    You WILL get on the truck.

    He says they also hurt his pet dog for no reason whatsoever: “Plaintiff Anthony Mitchell’s pet, a female dog named ‘Sam,’ was cowering in the corner when officers smashed through the front door. Although the terrified animal posed no threat to officers, they gratuitously shot it with one or more pepperball rounds. The panicked animal howled in fear and pain and fled from the residence. Sam was subsequently left trapped outside in a fenced alcove without access to water, food, or shelter from the sun for much of the day, while temperatures outside soared to over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.”

    And they love animals.
    Just read the damn thing.

  91. 91
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    because it’s pertinent over here, as well…

    This..

    http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2013/07/cradle-and-grave-of-liberty-part-deux.html

    This is why you’re the fucking bad guys. Read the comments, especially.