Question for those of you who know of these things

Guys, a question (which can be a semi-open thread, or not – your choice).

I have a relative who has a talent for hand-loading ammo. This relative would prefer to begin preparations for the moment when the fecal material impacts the oscillating device.

Questions: How much total layout, and how easy to acquire? (Meaning, of course, what tools/machinery is she going to need, etc.)

Discuss, if you please. My thanks in advance.

32 comments

  1. 1
    BD growls and barks:

    Disclaimer that goes with all of these sorts of responses: It depends on many factors. Having said that, I’ll try to respond in generalities.

    I’d recommend that your relative buy a reloading kit. There are many available, and others are bound to jump in with their preferences. I recommend the Rock Chucker Supreme Master Reloading Kit by RCBS. I still use mine after reloading thousands of rounds. Of course, I’ve added a doo-dad or two, but you can do just fine with what’s supplied. New ones can be found for around $300. Add dies for whatever round you’re reloading for about $60 – $80. Then, you’ll need brass. I suggest collecting your own from shooting ranges, but this can be purchased, too. But, then, you’ve lost any sort of savings that can be had in reloading. The actual bullets, primer, and powder are all that remains. There are videos online, and the kit I have mentioned comes with the reloading data. The total startup should ball well under $500. Other people could get started cheaper, but my view as that, if you’re committed, buy stuff you’ll use as opposed to stuff you’ll quickly grow dissatisfied with and have to upgrade.

    I’d also recommend that your relative start with handgun rounds.

  2. 2
    readerjp growls and barks:

    In the semi-open thread:

    Friday, June 21, 2013
    IRS Sends 46 Million In Tax Refunds To Illegal Aliens At Single Atlanta Address
    And we’re sure that’s just the tip of the iceberg…

    (CNSNews.com) – The Internal Revenue Service sent 23,994 tax refunds worth a combined $46,378,040 to “unauthorized” alien workers who all used the same address in Atlanta, Ga., in 2011, according to the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA).

    That was not the only Atlanta address theoretically occupied by thousands of “unauthorized” alien workers receiving millions in federal tax refunds in 2011. In fact, according to a TIGTA audit report published last year, four of the top ten addresses to which the IRS sent thousands of tax refunds to “unauthorized” aliens were in Atlanta.

    The IRS sent 11,284 refunds worth a combined $2,164,976 to unauthorized alien workers at a second Atlanta address; 3,608 worth $2,691,448 to a third; and 2,386 worth $1,232,943 to a fourth.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-sent-46378040-refunds-23994-unauthorized-aliens-1-atlanta-address

  3. 3
    single stack growls and barks:

    Your relative is about 2 or 3 years behind the curve but it’s doable. A friend of mine is just getting started and he’s had better luck than I expected.
    A lot depends on exactly what kind of guns she’s loading for. Will it be pistol only? Rifle only? Precision rifle or semi auto? Pistol, rifle, and shotgun?
    I started loading about 25 years ago with a Dillon Square Deal B (it’s pistol only) and it has served me very well.
    For rifle I use a single stage press. I started with a RCBS Partner but soon upgraded to a Forster Co-Ax. There are good progressives presses for rifles as well. I have friends with Hornady, RCBS, and Dillon progressives and they all load good ammo. Lee is the cheapest loading equipment (and looks it) but loads good ammo. It seems to require more adjusting and fiddling than the others though. They can all also be used to load pistol as well.
    I’ve never done much loading for shotgun. I still have a Lee Load-All Junior that I got as a Xmas gift years ago and I occasionally load some specialty rounds with it. It’s surprisingly good for low volume loading. People I know who do load for shotgun swear by MEC loaders.
    The advice to get a kit is a good one. They have everything you need in one package and usually cheaper than buying goodies piecemeal like I did.
    There are a lot of ways to set up for loading. A couple of guys I know keep everything in a box in a closet and clamp it to a table when they use it. Others have a permanent setup in the corner of the bedroom or an enclosed porch. Several have shops with a dedicated loading bench.
    I have a small room, 9′ x 9′, with my main loading bench, a table for operations like hand priming and case trimming, a small bench for working on guns (that’s where oils and solvents are used to keep them away from the loading area), and cabinets and shelves for storage. My benches are 2′ x 4′ and secured to the wall with L brackets. This keeps them from shaking around while using the presses, which can affect powder charges.
    Tools and equipment are easy to get, either locally or online (Midway USA is your best friend) but components are often really hard to find right now, especially for the SHTF calibers.

  4. 4

    BD @ # 1:
    single stack @ # 3:
    :em01: :em01: :em01: :em01: :em01:
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Found a couple of nifty new things this morningMy Profile

  5. 5
    LC Old Dog growls and barks:

    I started with a Lee 3 Hole Turret Press back in the mid 80s and use it still. A good investment (safety wise) is a very accurate powder measure and a accurate scale. This is not a high end set-up for sure but it is rugged, reliable, safe and you can be loading for well under $500!
    LC Old Dog recently posted..PC One More Time!My Profile

  6. 6
    Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan growls and barks:

    All I can tell you is what I use now (What works for me) and the mistakes I made getting here.

    What I use now is a Hornady progressive press for 95% of what I load. ( 9mm, .45ACP .223 mostly, with a bit of .45 Colt, .38 .357 and .44 tossed in) I love the set up. I can have the dies set in a plate and I don’t need to make any adjustments, just pop a new plate in, set the powder charge and start pulling the handle. I also keep a single stage RCBS press I inherited from my father for precision .308 and .223. It is much slower but I think I get more exact loads from it…… and for precision that is the name of the game.

    All of this is mounted to a heavy table in my basement next to a tumbler, scales, a couple of big cabinets I rescued from a school they were tearing down, buckets, shelves.

    Mistakes I’ve made……. well I’ve made plenty. Most of them stem from not buying quality the first time or not doing research. Another big mistake I made was constantly trying to play around with my load. Find a load you like and stick with it. I load 115 grain 9mm, 230 grain .45 ACP only now. I like my load and I stick with it. It saves time and money. I still play with my precision loads a bit, but a lot less than I once did. Also get some lumber and build a proper table. Having something that will not rock around on you will make you much happier.

  7. 7
    Retired Spook growls and barks:

    Dillon. If you’re loading one handgun caliber, get a Square Deal-B. If you want to load a variety of rifle and pistol, get an RL-550-B. The rounds I load for 30-06 or 7mm-08 are every bit as accurate as the ones I used to load on a single-stage press, and if I set up everything correctly beforehand, I can easily load 300 rounds per hour.

    Plus, you get the best customer service, and best warranty in the business.

    You can save a few bucks on something else, but you can’t do better.

  8. 8
    LC Draco growls and barks:

    In addition, get a couple of THESE for your Go Bag!! I have a couple.

    :em01:
    LC Draco recently posted..Heroes HonoredMy Profile

  9. 9
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Nightmare scenario for the Democrats
    BY: BYRON YORK JUNE 28, 2013 | 3:00 AM

    Look for a mad dash by little-known candidates if Hillary doesn’t run in 2016

    “Here comes Hillary,” announced CNN recently in a breathless story on the likelihood that former first lady, senator, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will run for president. The network, along with most other news outlets, interpreted her recent speech to her husband’s foundation as a sign of future White House ambitions, just as the entire political commentariat viewed her decision to start a Twitter account as a sure bet she’s going to run.

    It’s not just the press. The Democratic clerisy, from grass-roots organizers to insider strategists to big-money donors, fully expects a Clinton candidacy. The 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, it appears, is Hillary’s for the asking.

    But what if she doesn’t ask? What if Hillary Clinton chooses not to run, or for some reason is not able to run? After such a deep emotional investment in a Hillary candidacy, do Democrats have a Plan B?

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/nightmare-scenario-for-the-democrats/article/2532242

  10. 10
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    sweet news……….yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

    Hostess is betting that its Twinkies comeback will be a sweet one. The company that went bankrupt after an acrimonious fight with its unionized workers last year is back up and running under new owners and a leaner structure. It says it plans to have Twinkies and other snack cakes back on shelves starting July 15. Based on the outpouring of nostalgia sparked by its demise, the new Hostess is expecting a blockbuster return next month.

    :em01:

  11. 11
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Greenwald: Obama administration known for targeting whistleblowers
    Glenn Greenwald, columnist for The Guardian, discusses Edward Snowden’s decision to be a whistleblower and the danger to individuals who shed light on classified government programs.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/video/meet-the-press/52288327#52288327

  12. 12
    bruce growls and barks:

    I started with an inexpensive single stage electronic scale press,range brass,bulk bullets and primers but today this set up would coast about $300.i am 68 and load more than I shoot so I have thounds of rounds of 9mm,.45,.357&.38,.223,.243,5.5 x55 30-30,308 and .348,the last of the Winchester big bore leaver guns.save and plan for every thing like food& water, buy gold and silver coins because president bongo will try to crash the dollar.what ever you buy for survival now will pay off big time in the future and guns are as good as gold. you will need a couple of reloading manuals and all way start with the lowest load then when find what you like ,stick with it.liberals want to destroy us therefor we need to destroy them.

  13. 13
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Black Panther leader who has
    the words ´Kill Whitey´ tattooed on
    his FACE is arrested after cops catch
    him carrying an unlicensed loaded
    weapon on the streets of New
    York and wearing a bullet proof vest

    Daily Mail (UK), by Laurie Kamens

    A member of the New Black Panther Party who has a large tattoo on his face that reads ‘Kill Whitey’ was arrested on charges of gun possession. Maruse Heath, the head of the Philadelphia chapter of the New Black Panthers, was arrested in New York City after police claim they saw him leaving a Party meeting wearing a large bullet proof vest. Heath, 41, who also goes by King Salim Shabazz, was found holding an unlicensed, loaded gun when he was stopped by police. (snip)In 2008, Heath and a fellow Party member were arrested outside of a Philadelphia polling place

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346713/Leader-Black-Panthers-sports-tattoo-reading-Kill-Whitey-cheek-arrested-carrying-unlicensed-loaded-weapon-wearing-bullet-proof-vest.html

  14. 14
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Hey boss, did we meet our Christmas in July goal??

    Update please. When will the present come?

  15. 15
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Repackaged Amnesty Bill Allows Napolitano to Nix Border Fence
    by Matthew Boyle 22 Jun 2013
    Another loophole inserted into the new version of the “Gang of Eight” immigration bill allows Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano (or any of her successors) to nix the construction of a required border security fence if she does not find it to be an “appropriate” use of resources.

    The new version of the bill was introduced via a so-called “border surge” amendment from Sens. Bob Corker (R-TN) and John Hoeven (R-ND), with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid repackaging the whole bill into the amendment.

    On page 35, line 24 of the new bill, a provision was inserted that says Napolitano–who already believes the border is secure–can decide against building a fence if she chooses not to erect one:

    Notwithstanding paragraph (1), nothing in this subsection shall require the Secretary to install fencing, or infrastructure that directly results from the installation of such fencing, in a particular location along the Southern border, if the Secretary determines that the use or placement of such resources is not the most appropriate means to achieve and maintain effective control over the Southern border at such location.

    The “paragraph (1)” that new waiver refers to is the one that supposedly “requires” the construction of a fence along the border.

    Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall establish a strategy, to be known as the ‘Southern Border Fencing Strategy,’ to identify where 700 miles of fencing (including double-layer fencing), infrastructure, and technology, including at ports of entry, should be deployed along the Southern border,” that paragraph of the bill reads.

    This could allow illegal aliens to be granted amnesty, or legalized “Registered Provisional Immigration (RPI)” status, once Secretary Napolitano submits a fencing (and border security) plan to Congress. However, this provision allows Napolitano to decide against building the fence after doing so, with no legal ramifications.

  16. 16
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    How Obongo SCREWED us by axing the F-22

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBKvlLzGkvU&feature=player_embedded#at=184

    CAUTION= Plane Pr0n

  17. 17
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator @ #:9 –
    Broken record here –
    Hillary to run for president was plan B.
    All the gab about it is the standard smoke and mirrors for plan A..
    Plan A is – there will be no elections come 2016.
    LadyRaven recently posted..“…government is going to have to step in.”My Profile

  18. 18
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    LadyRaven@#…

    In that case there will be no US federal government after 2016. Even despots need a veneer of tradition. Otherwise it’s “Cry Havoc, etc.”

  19. 19
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    Hey boss, did we meet our Christmas in July goal??

    Update please. When will the present come?

    Yes, indeed we did. It appears that there are some logistical issues getting the whole thing planned now, but I’ll definitely keep y’all posted on developments. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Question for those of you who know of these thingsMy Profile

  20. 20
    irish19 growls and barks:

    Retired Spook says:

    Dillon. If you’re loading one handgun caliber, get a Square Deal-B. If you want to load a variety of rifle and pistol, get an RL-550-B. The rounds I load for 30-06 or 7mm-08 are every bit as accurate as the ones I used to load on a single-stage press, and if I set up everything correctly beforehand, I can easily load 300 rounds per hour.
    Plus, you get the best customer service, and best warranty in the business.
    You can save a few bucks on something else, but you can’t do better.

    I love my 550-B. Although I do have a Lyman turret press for the .30-06 bolt action. The Lee stuff is definitely less expensive, but the plastic measures are not so consistent in measuring weight of powder per charge.
    Also, a tumbler for cleaning brass and a scale for checking charge weights will be needed. Nice things to have would include gauges for checking the overall length of loaded cartridges.
    You should also definitely get a good reloading manual. Hornady makes a set that is excellent-although it obviously leans towards Hornady bullets.
    I currently have Dillon toolheads set up for .45, 9mm, .357, .308, .223, and .30-06 Garand.

  21. 21
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    If I may be permitted to tug Misha’s sleeve — check this out.

    Well, well, WELL.

    Things are getting VERY interesting in the court case about Obama’s citizenship. A whistleblower attorney has come forward with this testimony about a certain Indonesian student getting aid as a foreign citizen to attend Occidental College:

    http://tinyurl.com/mbrtlqo

    Pass it on: the only way to get facts past the Praetorian Media is to flood the zone, baby.

  22. 22
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Interesting stats….
    City, State, % of People Below the Poverty Level (pop. 250,000+)

    Detroit , MI 32.5%………..In Democrat control since 1961

    Buffalo , NY 29.9%………In Democrat control since 1954

    Cincinnati , OH 27.8%….In Democrat control since 1984

    Cleveland , OH 27.0%….In Democrat control since 1989

    Miami , FL 26.9%………..Has never had a Republican Mayor

    St. Louis , MO 26.8%…..In Democrat control since 1949

    El Paso , TX 26.4%……..Has never had a Republican Mayor

    Milwaukee , WI 26.2%….In Democrat control since 1908

    Philadelphia, PA 25.1%..In Democrat control since 1952

    Newark , NJ 24.2%………In Democrat control since 1907

    These cities are a few of the long-term effects of Democrat policies…I heard things are so bad in Detroit, that even the dead are leaving..

  23. 23
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    At a PRO-Gun rally in Erie PA over the weekend, police actually took participants license plate numbers.
    see the video here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N96XnfK9YNI

    and the Article here
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/23/gun-rights-rallygoers-defy-local-law-confront-police-state-actions/

    A police state coming soon to a city near you.!!

  24. 24
  25. 25
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    The supporters of Trayvon Martin are so transparent. They support him simply because he is black. They cry for the “unarmed kid” who was killed because the “cop wanna-be’ couldn’t leave it up to the police. But these people CHEER for John White. Remember him? Let me refresh your memories.

    John White is a black man living in Suffolk County, NY, in a predominantly white neighborhood. One night, his son comes home from a party. He’s 17. He wakes his father up and says his friends are “coming to kill him”. Somebody had posted a disparaging comment about some girl and the kids believed it was White’s son. Before this, the son was FRIENDS with the kids. John White knew these boys. They had been to his house before. So John White, a man who had a habit of calling 911 for the most trivial of things (neighbors leaves being blown on his lawn, noise complaints, etc) gets his ILLEGAL handgun that he drove up from Florida (it had been given to him by his grandfather. White never bothered to register it) and sits in the dark and WAITS for 45 minutes. he doesn’t get his son out of there. he doesn’t call 911.

    The kids arrive and are in the street OFF his property. White takes his ILLEGAL gun and LEAVES his house where he is perfectly safe and walks to the street. He points the ILLEGAL gun at the kid and “it went off” when the kid slapped it away. NO corroboration of this, of course. he shoots this kid in the face at point black range. The kids scream and tend to their mortally wounded friend, while John White walks BACK into his house and calls his LAWYER.he does NOT call the cops or even an AMBULANCE.
    Pretty clear case of murder, huh? Laws of deadly force in NY clearly state you can only use deadly force if you are in IMMINENT danger and there is NO retreat. The kids never stepped on his property. They had with a baseball bat, but it was in the trunk of the car. The kid dies.
    White is found guilty of manslaughter 2. He is free on bail pending appeal. He eventually serves about 6 MONTHS, but black outgoing disgraced governor David Patterson PARDONS this murderer. he is now free.

    Now let the black posters who swear their allegiance to Trayvon because of his skin tone — try to justify an armed man leaving the safety of his home and shooting an unarmed kid in the face, then not even having the human decency to call for an ambulance.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-trial-begins-protest- article-1.1368189

  26. 26
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Anyone tracking the Zimmerman Trial? So far the State is getting its ass handed to them by their own witnesses. The first civilian witness might as well as put a sign on that said “I”m a biased liar” before taking the stand, cause that’s what the defense showed on cross exam.

    How all you FL pups doing? Yall ready for the upcoming festivities?

  27. 27

    Back to reloading. The VERY FIRST PURCHASE should be a high-quality reloading manual, and I can’t believe none of the reloaders here mentioned that. I highly recommend the Speer manual. Its loose-leaf format means you can open it to the desired page and have it lay flat on the bench right next to the reloading operation in progress. Never, NEVER attempt to reload without recommended load data at hand.

    Space: 6 feet by 5 feet for a minimalist setup. 30 square feet. More ideal, a 10×10 room. You need a sturdy workbench and a place to sit, as in a COMFORTABLE bar stool, you’re gonna spend a lot of hours on it.

    An IDEAL bench, to my thinking, would be 8′ x 3′, framed in 2×6 lumber, decked with 2x4s laid ON EDGE to produce a four inch thick top, and would stand about bellybutton high. The deck would then be belt-sanded to smoothness and heavily varnished. The entire thing assembled with wooden pegs and Elmer’s Carpenter glue, not screws or nails, and the finished product lag-bolted to wall studs. We’re after ROCK solid. Cabinets to hang above said bench, with under-cabinet LED lighting. An electrical outlet or two or three at handy benchtop height.

    Why a 10×10 room to accommodate a workbench? Creature comforts. A place for a TV or radio. Shelves for supplies. An armchair for a visitor while you do work that is essentially tedious and boring after the new wears off. A vent fan in the ceiling….you’re working with powder, and lead. Maybe a little refrigerator. You get my drift. A “man cave”, done right.
    LC Sir M – Imperial Tobacconist™, K.o.E. recently posted..Today’s FunnyMy Profile

  28. 28
    drew458 growls and barks:

    I like Sir M’s idea, as long as you understand that none of that man cave stuff gets used when you are reloading. No TV, no radio, NO DRINKING, no distracting friends talking about his upcoming divorce, etc. No distractions. I don’t even sit down, but I do have one of those hefty rubber shop pads for under my feet.

    Yes, reloading is tedious. It’s not for everybody. You have to focus and stay focused. You need to know how a good primer seating feels, and how a proper bullet seating feels, etc. And always spend a few extra bucks to buy a separate crimping die for station #4. It just makes better ammo that way.

    Don’t try to load 5000 rounds at a go. Do 100. 200. As many as you can until you get tired or start to lose focus. Then stop. Come back another day and do some more.

    That said, my Dillon RL550B is a fantastic machine. Used with ball powders and clean brass, I can churn out 400-500 rounds an hour and each round will be top notch. Used as a semi-automatic, scooping and dribbling larger charges of long kernel rifle powder at a nearby scale, I can still make 150 rounds of premium rifle ammo an hour. Yes, you can use large kernel powder in the Dillon powder thrower, but it will crunch a couple grains here and there. They all do, and that might not make the slightest difference, but I avoid it and weigh rifle charges manually.

    While the Dillon is awesome, the Hornady Lock ‘n Load is nearly as good. And the RCBS progressives do the job too. The thing is, a good loading press NEVER wears out. EVER. So look on CraigsList or eBay for a used one, and save some money. Even a rusty one comes back to life with some WD-40 and a good cleaning.

    Do you need a progressive press? No. But it saves you tons of time. And it decreases the screw-up factors by a large amount. Stick with a single stage if you get one for free and if you only reload perhaps 50 rounds a week. Anything more than that, and you want a top quality progressive machine. But you don’t need an RL-650 unless you’re doing more than 1000 rounds a week.

  29. 29
    Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan growls and barks:

    drew458 says:

    The thing is, a good loading press NEVER wears out. EVER.

    I imagine you could wear one out……. but you’d have no time to shoot the ammo your putting together!

  30. 30
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    ‘If Zimmerman Get Off, Ima Go Kill a White Boy’: Trayvon Martin Supporters Make Shocking Threats Ahead of Verdict

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/27/if-zimmerman-get-off-ima-go-kill-a-white-boy-trayvon-martin-supporters-make-shocking-threats-ahead-of-verdict/

  31. 31
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Ex-Chicago Cop: Zimmerman Acquittal to Cause Race Riots

    Social unrest will “dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots”

    Paul Joseph Watson
    Infowars.com
    June 28, 2013

    Following a number of tweets making threats to kill white people if George Zimmerman is acquitted of murdering Trayvon Martin, a former Chicago police officer warns that the outcome of the case could spark race riots in cities across America.

    As Infowars reported yesterday, following the woeful performance of Rachel Jeantel, the state’s so-called “star witness,” a number of Twitter users took to the social network to express their intention to kill white people in retaliation for Zimmerman going free.

    Tweets included remarks such as “If Zimmerman get off ima shoot the first #hispanic/white I see,” and “If they don’t kill Zimmerman Ima kill me a cracka.”

    In an article entitled, America Will See Its Worst Race Riot Yet This Summer, Crime File News’ Paul Huebl remarks that the case against Zimmerman should never have been filed in the first place and that when the trial inevitably collapses with Zimmerman’s acquittal, “I fully expect organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades.”

    Huebl is a licensed private detective and a former Chicago police officer.

    “If you live in a large city be prepared to evacuate or put up a fight to win. You will need firearms, fire suppression equipment along with lots of food and water. Police resources will be slow and outgunned everywhere,” writes Huebl, adding, “America may see some combat related population control like we’ve not seen since the Civil War. Martial Law can’t be far behind complete with major efforts at gun grabbing.”

    Huebl is not the only prominent voice to express fears that the outcome of the trial could lead to widespread social disorder.

    Columnist and former senior presidential advisor Pat Buchanan warned last month that, “The public mind has been so poisoned that an acquittal of George Zimmerman could ignite a reaction similar to that, 20 years ago, when the Simi Valley jury acquitted the LAPD cops in the Rodney King beating case.”

    Political Strategist Charles D. Ellison also warns that, “There is the risk of a flashpoint as intense as the aftermath of that fateful Los Angeles police brutality verdict in 1992,” if Zimmerman walks free.

    “At that time, many underestimated the potential for social unrest. And a bit over 20 years to the date, many could be making the same miscalculation at this very moment. The ingredients are there in Sanford and they loom large nationally, from an economy barely managing its own recovery to an unemployment rate that’s much higher than it should be, particularly for African-Americans,” adds Ellison.

    Some are even asking whether the law should be ignored and Zimmerman convicted simply to avoid race riots.

    “Regardless of whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defense, a large segment of the population, particularly the black population, are demanding Zimmerman be punished. And if they don’t have their demands satisfied, it is possible they might riot,” writes a poster at the Aesops Retreat forum. “So would it be appropriate to consider potential riots when deciding on whether or not to prosecute Zimmerman? Or should justice be blind and follow the rule of law?”

    Critics of the attempt to convict Zimmerman have cited numerous points of evidence which clearly suggest Zimmerman acted in self-defense and that the case against him was built largely on the back of contrived racial politics.

    - Photos taken after the incident show Zimmerman with a bloody nose and lacerations to the head, suggesting he had been physically attacked by Martin;

    - NBC News edited a 911 tape of Zimmerman’s call to the police to falsely depict him as a racist;

    - Prominent black figures like Spike Lee and Jesse Jackson immediately portrayed the incident as an assault on the black community, stirring racial tension;

    - President Barack Obama got involved in the case on the side of Trayvon Martin by stating, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”

    - A police report suggested Zimmerman had been flat on his back during the altercation and an eyewitness said that Martin was sat on top of Zimmerman beating and pushing him down;

    - A responder at the scene said Martin’s knuckles were bloodied, suggesting he had injured Zimmerman with a punch;

    - The lead investigator on the scene, Officer Christopher Serino, wrote that Zimmerman could be heard “yelling for help as he was being battered by Trayvon Martin.”

    If some form of social disorder, be it limited or widespread, does ensue should Zimmerman walk free, authorities will be well prepared. The Department of Homeland Security recently put out another order for hundreds of items of riot gear in order to prepare for “riot control situations.” The federal agency has also committed to buying around 2 billion rounds of ammunition over the course of the last year.

  32. 32
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    ‘Absolutely Incredible’: Canadians Outraged After Flooding Prompts Involuntary Firearm Confiscation

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/28/absolutely-incredible-canadians-outraged-after-cops-confiscate-some-unsafely-stored-guns-during-flood/