The Gang of 8 – er make that SIXTEEN **updated**

For days we’ve been told by the MSM  that there was a possibility of 8 RINO’s stampeding across the aisle to support Harry Reid’s Anti 2ND Amendment Bill. Well I guess the press-titutes must be as surprised as I am (Yeah – RIGHT!)  that that number DOUBLED this morning – it wasn’t 8 – It was 16 Republicans that voted to bring the bill to the floor – thus throwing Senator’s Paul Rand and others who were threatening to filibuster the ProgNazi’s latest gun grab  bill directly under the wheels of the RINO’s Treason Train. Alllll Aboard!!

Once again the Obama Propaganda Machine gives cover right up to the last second to a bunch of traitorous assholes …Seriously, if you actually think for one second the press wasn’t aware of the fact that there were other Republicans that were going to vote to allow this bill to move forward  but stuck to the number as 8 – I’ve got a bridge up for sell. Call me – we’ll do lunch. Wink.

Here’s the listing of the 16 Republicans (RINO) That “crossed the aisle” and allowed the ProgNazi’s to bring their gun grab bill to the floor of the Senate. The usual suspects are all there.

Obviously I understand that this does NOT mean the bill is law- as we all should. It only means that the bill is now going to be allowed on the floor for debate. There is no guarantee one way or the other that the bill will pass or fail at this point, but it certainly doesn’t look good for the home team.

However comma, that is not the point. The point here is simply that ….This bill should have been a dead stinking carcass upon arrival, it should have been mocked and ridiculed out of existence- but yet again, 16 Republicans fell prey to the ever fucking ridiculous notion that – “Yes Virgina, there really is an honest Democrat in D.C.” That’s the nice way to say it – the darker thoughts running through my head is these 16 traitors – know exactly what they are doing, and they do intend to pass this in full, they’ve jumped the aisle for good on this issue.

Of particular concern here is that this listing, with exception of well established RINO Whores like Collins (ME) , McCain (AZ), Alexander (TN) and Graham (SC)  is more or less a who’s who of – red state Senators.

Sadly, and with much anger I have to say both my Senators from TN voted to allow the bill to proceed – much to my disgust.

I more or less expected Lamar Alexander (TN) to jump ship – he’s got a proven track record of it time and time again. He’s part of the “Memphis crowd” – But Corker?

So with out more ado ….Bob fucking Corker – I hope you fucking drop dead – actually Bob….yesterday would have been a nice fucking day to do exactly that…but no hard feelings …right Bob? You fucking piece of camel shit herpes infected cunt stain bastard son of a crack whore that you are.

Kelly Ayotte (N.H.)
Richard Burr (N.C.)
Saxby Chambliss (Ga.)
Tom Coburn (Okla.)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Bob Corker (Tenn.)
Jeff Flake (Ariz.)
Lindsey Graham (S.C.)
Dean Heller (Nev.)
John Hoeven (N.D.)
Johnny Isakson (Ga.)
Mark Kirk (Ill.),
John McCain (Ariz.)
Pat Toomey (Pa.)
Roger Wicker (Miss.)
Lamar Alexander (Tenn.)

A thousand times a thousand curses on the houses of all 16. Biblical ones. Locusts – Boils – Pestilence and Plague – Because hey, when dealing with traitorous scum like these sixteen – you should care enough to send the very best….

F.E.T.E

Update -1

It would appear that the blow back is starting: For those of you that use Face Crack – go and search around on the 16 RINO’s FB pages…the blow back is rather – impressive.

There is also a movement afoot to bring the NRA to task because they have given each of these treasonous bastards high ratings…

Here’s some of the comments I saw on Lamar Alexanders FB page:

**  For whatever reason the block quotes under the fold aren’t displaying properly – so I’ve italicized any comments I pulled off of FB **

TRAITOR!!!! Consider your Political career over because we will no longer vote for someone that doesn’t represent our people!

 You sold your soul today, Senator, and you killed the chance for Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and others to filibuster this issue. Why??? Why??? Why??? We, the folks who voted you into office, deserve an explanation for this vote.

I fought for this country and the constitutional rights that you just decided should be up for debate, The problem here, senator, is that the bill of rights is supposed to be non- negotiable. get packing because your outta here in 2014.

There were 164+ (and counting) comments on just one issue that Alexander posted about – and it had nothing to do with the subject of today’s vote.

**  Update – 2 **

Well that certainly didn’t take long. See this in the press? I doubt it. Diane Fienstien has already inserted a amendment to S-679 Called SA 711 It is an EXPANSION of the 1994 Assault weapons ban. It’s too lengthy to post here but Here is link to the text of the language of SA711 And the other amendments.

Assault weapons ban of 2013

 

 

106 comments

  1. 1
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    As I understand it, even if it DOES get through the Senate, then it goes to the House. I hope all conservatives in the states of those RINO senators vote them out next election, but I won’t hold my breath.

    However coma

    Comma, comma! (Coma is when you are unconscious.) Although, these days, you could make the argument that most of the administration is in a coma (or brain dead…).

  2. 2
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Are you Obama lovers happy yet? The country is changing, into a 3rd world economy! I guess you wanted that to happen right? Maybe this song is true and life as we know it is about to end!
    “The End Times” http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_10381143

  3. 3

    Comma, comma! (Coma is when you are unconscious.) Although, these days, you could make the argument that most of the administration is in a coma (or brain dead…).

    DOH! My spouse keeps muttering sumthin’ sumthin’ braindead….. Maybe she’s right?! :em03:

    Fixed, Thanks for the catch… :em01:
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..The Gang of 8 – er make that SIXTEENMy Profile

  4. 4
    Djach growls and barks:

    I already knew that the two pieces of shit senators -who represent the prognazi hell-hold of Illinois- were a lost cause! But sitting here, listening to Blumenthal drone on about the children of Sandy Hook makes me really want to play mailbox baseball with his head as the bat! Fucking A!!! And fwiw, I have ZERO confidence in the House w/ Bonehead at the helm! :em03:

    Well, just like Anthony G. Martin already wrote about in his blog Musings After Midnight, “the clock is ticking and its 15 seconds closer to midnight” for our once great nation…!

  5. 5
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Once again, I must apologize for New Hampshire’s version of Scott Brown in a skirt. All I can do is work to get her primaried by a real conservative when her term is up. First, we need top bury Jean Shaheen in 2014 and retake the house from the communists.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Americans are arming for warMy Profile

  6. 6

    I think this vote was to allow debate on the gun grabbing bill wasn’t it? if so, then it might be a good thing to get this monstrosity out into the open. If not, and it turns out to be a lot of meaningless hot air….

    then I guess I have some ammo that I need to buy

  7. 7
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    The House will betray us the same way the Senate will. We are being “Obama-cared” all over again.

    And we will be told to “calm down, the Supreme court will handle it.”

    They won’t.

    This is not legislation. If Obama gets this bill and signs it, it’s a unilateral declaration of civil war by the government on the people of this nation.

    Not one fucking step more will they go while this little black duck draws a breath.

  8. 8

    HempRopeAndStreetlight says:

    The House will betray us the same way the Senate will. We are being “Obama-cared” all over again.

    And we will be told to “calm down, the Supreme court will handle it.”

    They won’t.

    This is not legislation. If Obama gets this bill and signs it, it’s a unilateral declaration of civil war by the government on the people of this nation.

    Not one fucking step more will they go while this little black duck draws a breath.

    then I need to stock up on “supplies” if you get my drift

  9. 9

    I think this vote was to allow debate on the gun grabbing bill wasn’t it? if so, then it might be a good thing to get this monstrosity out into the open. If not, and it turns out to be a lot of meaningless hot air….

    Correct – it does not make it law – it only allows it to proceed for debate. But, as I said Jay, the issue here is these RINO’s even allowing it to progress this far.

    As far as “getting it out into the open”, The Arabs have a saying; “Never let the camel stick his nose into the tent”, meaning once that camel does that, you’re liable to have the whole damn thing in there with you. And that is what I see happening here. They allowed it to come to the floor, from there it is allowed to be amended – what is one of those amendments ? The so called “Assault Weapons Ban” that was dropped earlier, the same one Reid was forced to drop.

    Frankly, you have to have a lot of confidence in your elected officials that they won’t turn right around and add the original language back in – I don’t have that level of trust in any of those jackals in D.C. Not a single f’n one of them including my own two Senators. It’s the switch and bait risk this bill poses that is the danger.

    I know, I’m dangerously close to a ‘single issue voter on this – so be it – but I also go on principle in life – Corker and Alexander have none as evidenced by the multiple votes they have taken the ProgNazi side on – everything from Global Warming, to now this bill.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..The Gang of 8 – er make that SIXTEENMy Profile

  10. 10
    readerjp growls and barks:

    You might be interested in what’s going on already in the great state of NY:

    Oops! New York State Police Admit to Major Mistake in Gun Confiscation Case

    In a surprising turnaround, New York State Police have admitted that they made a mistake when they confiscated the guns and suspended the permit of an Erie County resident on the grounds of mental health.

    Late Wednesday, Erie County, NY, released a statement (posted below) blaming the New York State Police for giving them bad information regarding the suspension of a pistol permit and demand to surrender firearms sent to Amherst resident David Lewis.

    They’re already confiscating guns from licensed gun holders. Think about this: How do they get the information on who is taking anti-anxiety medications? Your medical info is supposed to be confidential. Well, now we know what else Obamacare is bringing us. Next: institutionalizing dissenters. Just like the USSR.

    In NY, state police are part of the executive = governor’s army.

    And I wonder if this has anything to do with the new list of medications that NY State Insurance WON’T cover anymore – which they say were always banned, but the state didn’t notice. How stupid is that?!

    More here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/09/a-form-of-gun-confiscation-has-reportedly-begun-in-new-york-state-heres-the-justification-being-used/

  11. 11
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant @ #:

    Correct – it does not make it law – it only allows it to proceed for debate. But, as I said Jay, the issue here is these RINO’s even allowing it to progress this far.

    If you listen to them, they are showing that they have no idea what the Constitution is, and what their actual duties are.
    :em08:

    As far as “getting it out into the open”, The Arabs have a saying; “Never let the camel stick his nose into the tent”, meaning once that camel does that, you’re liable to have the whole damn thing in there with you. And that is what I see happening here. They allowed it to come to the floor, from there it is allowed to be amended – what is one of those amendments ? The so called “Assault Weapons Ban” that was dropped earlier, the same one Reid was forced to drop.

    Time to go camel hunting?
    :em03:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Why do you fear the government?My Profile

  12. 12

    angrywebmaster @ #: 11

    Time to go camel hunting?

    Or RINO as the case may be :em05:
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..The Gang of 8 – er make that SIXTEENMy Profile

  13. 13
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Yeah time is getting short. Both sides are really itchy for a fight – both just waiting for the first good pretext. Calm before the storm right now… a lull…. good time to get the garden planted.and a stockpile of any preps not fully stocked for those into not standing on FEMA lines.

  14. 14
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Looks useful:

    http://gunthreadadapters.com/

  15. 15
    single stack growls and barks:

    Remember what the Dutch did to scum like this. I know I do-and I won’t forget if I’m still alive when the time comes.

    Roger Wicker is my senator, along with the execrable Thad Cochran, and he has proven himself to be a treasonous collaborator many times since his election.

  16. 16
    Rain growls and barks:

    It doesn’t surprise me that McCain was a squish… but… Flake too? WTF, over? I sure hope that they grow a spine once this monstrosity starts being “debated” but I sure as hell am not gonna hold my breath

  17. 17
    Djach growls and barks:

    Yes, I’m guilty of some inflammatory comments posted on to ProgNazi Mark Kirk’s (RINO-IL) mugbook! I was already fully aware of his position regarding the gun control issue prior to the vote, but any chance I get to spew some anger his way will not go wasted. :em08:

  18. 18
    LC_Salgak growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight says:

    Yeah time is getting short. Both sides are really itchy for a fight – both just waiting for the first good pretext. Calm before the storm right now… a lull…. good time to get the garden planted.and a stockpile of any preps not fully stocked for those into not standing on FEMA lines.

    I would be VERY surprised if the shooting does NOT break out by the fall. . .

  19. 19
    rickn8or growls and barks:

    readerjp, looks like the new meme for NY is “Take Paxil, lose your pistol.”

    Apologies to all y’all for Alexander and Corker. Just waiting for all the goodies that pulled Toomey over to the Dark Side to get amended out of the bill.

    Both the D’s that voted against it are up for re-election in ’14, so I can at least respect them for trying to cover their asses.

    Oh. Look at this. Alexander’s up for re-election in ’14 too. Guess I’m gonna support whoever runs against him, primary AND general election. At least with a “D” I can count on him to vote a certain way.

  20. 20
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC_Salgak @ #:

    I would be VERY surprised if the shooting does NOT break out by the fall. . .

    We are one incident away from the start of SHTF. All it will take is one Waco style incident, especially if the defenders are able to hold off the initial attack and call for help.

    IIRC, one of the “excuses” used for the final action on the Davidians was a rumor that a large militia was coming down to break the siege. Just a rumor of course. This time, it won’t be one. The nightmare for Federal agents is getting surrounded, cut off with no hope of relief, and running out of ammo.

    In other news, I just took a look at Ayotte’s “Official” faceplant page. She is getting slammed badly. I wonder what the calls to her office are like.
    :em03:

    It’s never to early to look for a serious primary challenger for her. The only reason she won her primary, was her opponent was to much of a gentleman to demand a recount. He was worried it would be divisive. (He lost by about 1000 votes)
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Why do you fear the government?My Profile

  21. 21
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    DEAD SENATORS………………NOT A BAD THING?

  22. 22
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Oh. Good. Grief.

    If y’all don’t stop wringing your hands, you are going to get callouses. The senate floor is now open for debate — endless debate, after which time, there will still be ample opportunity for filibusters and the like.

    And even if this background check thing and the law against you selling your firearm to a known criminal or terrorist passes, where does it go next?

    I’ll give you a moment to think about it….

    Yes, that’s right, the House of Representatives, where absolutely NOTHING is going to happen with it. Even with roughly nine out of ten people in almost every poll saying that they WANT background checks, I don’t see it happening.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  23. 23
    Orion growls and barks:

    You all may find the video “Waco: Rules of Engagement” to be instructive and interesting.

    But for those of you talking about betrayal and your congresscritters – When are you going to wake up and realize that expecting the group of crooks calling themselves ONE thing (this week) to suddenly become honest is as illogical as expecting the OTHER group of crooks calling themselves something else (this week) to do so.

    Folks, we do not have a government. There is a criminal cartel that has seized power. Expect them to behave as criminals and you will not be disappointed. Expect them to behave as legislators, professionals, representatives, etc. and you will be bitterly disappointed, each and every time.

    Wake up to reality.

    Orion

  24. 24
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    rickn8or @ #:

    Alexander’s up for re-election in ’14 too. Guess I’m gonna support whoever runs against him, primary AND general election. At least with a “D” I can count on him to vote a certain way.

    You can pretty much count on Lamar to vote the same way, too.

  25. 25
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Oh. Good. Grief. If y’all don’t stop wringing your hands, you are going to get callouses. The senate floor is now open for debate — endless debate, after which time, there will still be ample opportunity for filibusters and the like.

    :em02:

    “Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say “what should be the reward of such sacrifices?” Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
    - Samuel Adams

    The time for mewling quims has come and gone. And supplicant government establishment dick-suckers.

  26. 26
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight says:

    The time for mewling quims has come and gone. And supplicant government establishment dick-suckers.

    Explains DJ EXACTLY

  27. 27
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight says:

    The time for mewling quims has come and gone. And supplicant government establishment dick-suckers.

    My turn.

    :em02:

    Even if universal background checks do somehow manage to pass into law, there will be no grape-busting over it. You must have missed the part where a whopping 90 percent of the people in virtually every poll taken on the subject seem to have no problem with criminal background checks and stiff penalties for knowingly selling guns to criminals, terrorists, and the mentally ill. Even the internal polls of NRA members don’t seem to have a problem with it — as long as that is the extent of things.

    Personally, I don’t see where background checks will accomplish all that much. Someone could pass a background check today, pick up their firearm, and ten days later shoot up a shopping center.

    I think that everyone is putting the cart before the horse on all of this. Forget restricting who gets to have a fucking gun — let EVERYONE have one or ten. We don’t have a “gun problem”, we have a “behavior problem”. Deal with the behavior — it is the simplest thing.

    Commit a crime with a gun (or ANY weapon) — get a ton of time dropped on you. Automatically and mandatory. Even insinuate you have a weapon and get the same consequence. Make that punishment hurt. Measure it in decades, not months, and make it consecutive to whatever the underlying crime was.

    If someone is too “nuts” to have a gun — then what the fuck are they roaming around on the streets for? Same goes for ex-felons. If they are “too dangerous” to have a gun, then they are “too dangerous” to be walking around in public.

    Is MY plan going to end people getting shot and/or killed? Nope. But it certainly will reduce through attrition the number of problem children we have in society, AND it will still allow you to “bitterly cling” to your guns.

    So there.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  28. 28
    0007 growls and barks:

    See, here’s the problem, DJ, for one thing the only people who have access to the NICS system are FFL holders.

    So if you want to sell one of your guns at a show, you’re going to have to find a dealer who wants to take the time to do the transfer – for which he will(reasonably) expect to be paid. How much he will expect to be paid, who knows?That also means the transfer will have to go into his books which means BATF database/registration.

    And you can’t show me ANYPLACE where registration DID NOT lead to confiscation down the road.

    Oh yeah, and what planet are you living on where you think a couple of ganghbangerswho are trading guns are going to drive around looking for a dealer to do a transfer for them? Right, I forgot you live on planet LIB-PROG…

  29. 29
    Eric Praline growls and barks:

    In ancient Rome, politicians executed for treason had their tongues and right hands nailed to the rostrum in the forum as a warning to others. Food for thought. :em03:

  30. 30
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    0007 says:

    So if you want to sell one of your guns at a show, you’re going to have to find a dealer who wants to take the time to do the transfer – for which he will(reasonably) expect to be paid. How much he will expect to be paid, who knows?That also means the transfer will have to go into his books which means BATF database/registration.

    I can do a criminal check online in most states for about $10. Perhaps if they made THAT kind of system available, where you could do your own check in real time?

    0007 says:

    And you can’t show me ANYPLACE where registration DID NOT lead to confiscation down the road.

    Conversely, you can’t show me ANYPLACE where registration DOES lead to confiscation down the road.

    Unless of course you committed a felony and you were required by the court to give up those weapons… But hey, that has been a law and a practice for a VERY long time already.

    0007 says:

    Oh yeah, and what planet are you living on where you think a couple of ganghbangerswho are trading guns are going to drive around looking for a dealer to do a transfer for them? Right, I forgot you live on planet LIB-PROG…

    Well, PART of that proposed legislation (and it is still in the stages of being a proposal) is that there are stiff penalties for actually doing any of that.

    But like I said — and apparently you completely ignored the last half of my comment — I am NOT a proponent of background checks as being the “solution” to anything. On MY planet — Planet Common Sense — I restrict behavior, not objects. It’s pretty simple — don’t cause problems and you’ll be alright. Step out of line and become a problem or a danger — we find a way to put an end to that — quickly and decisively.

    We had a bit of a discussion on FB the other day about drunk driving. A real good friend of mine has been suffering through the loss of his 26 year old daughter a couple of years ago because some woman thought it would be alright to get behind the wheel of her car and drive the wrong way on the 405 for a few miles.

    Recently, we’ve had several more asswipes who have gotten behind the wheel and kill people. Some people are trying to say that we should show some compassion for the drunk because he has a “problem” with alcohol and needs to be “treated”.

    HORSE PUSSY!

    Like the fucknozzle who shoots up a school or theater, they have a BEHAVIOR problem, not a gun, or an alcohol, or a “bad childhood” problem.

    As a society, we’ve taken the easy way out and blamed everything else but the obvious — behavior.

    Look, most people here are gun owners, right? I can probably bet my next years wages on the fact that nary a one of you are going to go out and shoot up a school this year. (nor are you going to take your knife and mass-stab a bunch of students in a community college either) I am describing the rank and file of pretty much all gun (and knife) owners. It is only a statistically zero percentage of people who are going to do something like that. So WHY in the hell would we need to restrict guns or knives? To make sure that these “bad” people don’t use them to hurt us?

    Wouldn’t it be so much easier to simply ban or restrict the “bad” people?

    Like I said above, if someone is so fucking dangerous, then why do we let them roam around where they could do some damage? Lock their asses up or put them down.

    Simple, and it can be written on one sheet of paper.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  31. 31
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Anatomy of a DJ Allen Appearance:

    1: Selects an issue near and dear to target(s).
    2: Types disdainful, dismissive, collectivist drivel and projects his failings into others.
    3: Get’s exactly the sort of response that a narcissistic sociopath deserves.
    4: Acts startled and indignant by the predictable rebuttals.
    5: Tries to attack by word-wall. Nobody reads it for the most part.
    6: Wants to re-write reality to suit his preconceived notions and projections.
    7: Get’s swatted, ignored, or eye-rolled by community in general.
    8: Stomps feet like a 4-year old, bawls, and pretends he didn’t start it.
    9: Looks around and realizes his wounded Killdeer routine has failed.
    10: Bemoans how the “community has changed” since “the good old days.”
    11: Makes passing reference to “all those driven away by the haters.
    12: Gets yawns from the adults in the room, who’ve seen this cartoon before.
    13: Announces that he’s LEAVING FOREVER – that will show them all!
    14: Returns 2-5 months later, repeats process.

  32. 32
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    Folks, the Looters have realized that No One Is Guarding the Store.

    We’re in the exact position of a bunch of helpless little old ladies and gents, swatting futilely with our handbags and canes at big strapping thugs as they carry TV sets and jewelry out of the store.

    As far as fighting back is concerned, the Looters don’t worry about that one whit. The biggest Big Push Americans ever made to escape the iron grip of the Federal Government was in 1860. And you know how that turned out, even when the South had several contiguous states and a first-rate army with the legendary General Lee at its head. Make what you will of the South’s motives (Gen. Longstreet was right: we should have freed the slaves and THEN fired on Fort Sumter), the South’s fortunes in battle are a Cautionary Tale.

    There was much valor on both sides, but the North crushed the South with greater weight of numbers (3:1) and a shitload more money. The situation now is much worse. Those who disagree bitterly with the course the Central Government is taking are scattered throughout a largely ignorant and brainwashed population. The Central Government has firepower that is a few orders of magnitude greater than anything any citizens could muster (much different from the old days, where things were a lot more even). Electronic spying is going through our sock drawers even now. Surveillance is everywhere.

    Bottom line, they aren’t worried about anyone getting hotheaded and starting anything. If anything, the Central Govt. would welcome it: would give them an excuse to Crack Down on dissidents.

    Oh, and the shit about using accusations of mental illness (no trial, no proof, no nothing) to strip citizens of our rights is PERFECTLY FUCKING SOVIET UNION-STYLE, ISN’T IT? That was one of their favorite hell-tactics.

    Feel the ratchet tightening … tightening ….

  33. 33
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Poor Bob Owens: http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/04/republican-senators-drop-gun-bill-filibuster-is-a-trap-being-set/

    He really does have an earnest heart – and he’s a real patriot. But… the stupid party is just not capable or willing to doing what Bob wants or hopes…

    The comments are pretty harsh – but not directed at him – which is good. I think the people recognize that Mr. Owens is “good people.”

    Not much love for the stupid-party after this betrayal. Fuck’em in my opinion, they deserve to join the Whigs, in hell.

  34. 34
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Well Tallulah, we learned some lessons since the Civil war. Some of them taught to us by good old Sherman himself. The south lost the logistical war. This next time around, the rebels will pull a few pages from the enemies playbook. Less than 5 guys and a few hunting rifles or IED’s can make much of New York City a very dark, very cold place in January. And it’s going to stay that way for a long, long long time.

    Croplands, forests, gas-mains, water-lines, the power grid in general, internet fiber, bridges, roads… the list of potential targets is so mind boggling and impossible to defend in any practical way… the government (if they were listening to their own advisers), should be scared shit-less of what they are stirring up.

    Recall that it’s a very different time than in the 1860′s. Back then most-everybody had a coal or wood-stove, several cords of wood, food for the winter in the root cellar, stocked, lamp-oil for light, and a well. You needed to shit, you had an outhouse. There was also more wilderness stocked with game, gardens in most yards, and much of the population knew how to hunt, trap, forage, and grow their keep.

    And the killer – much LESS population – it was sustainable with what could be produced by someone and their kin – now, only expensive, complex, modern machinery can meet the caloric demands of hundreds of millions of people. How many people still know how to plow with a mule, grow a crop without pesticides, harvest it, and preserve a portion of the seeds for next season? not enough to feed hundreds of millions of people, that’s for sure.

    These days… most souls have 2 or 3 days of food tops (counting ketchup), and are 100% dependent on the utilities for heat, water, sanitation, and light. They don’t know how to grow their food, don’t know how to hunt, don’t know how to gut whatever they manage to kill, and wouldn’t know potable water from a mud-puddle. The stores have no back-stock to deal with supply disruptions. Warehouses are just staging grounds – there really is no surplus anymore. (Thank the Keynesians running our financial system for that by the way).

    The infrastructure keeps the sheeple alive. The infrastructure feeds the government. The infrastructure is indefensible – especially to small teams or even lone wolves.

    See the government’s problem yet?

    They’ve worked really hard to empower themselves by making much of the population dependent sheep. This works so long as the population is supplicant. If just a small portion of it – about 3% – decides to tear it all out from under them… they are pretty much fucked. The stampeding cattle the welfare state has created will kill it.

    What’s left afterwards won’t be very pretty. For any of us. But at this point, anything that happens now is on THEM.
    They picked the fight.

    And we haven’t even gotten into cyber-warfare, civil-disobedience, and deliberate economic warfare. Or the inevitable stock market collapse that will follow once “shit-gets-real.”

    The fact is, this country has become fragile – it’s been undermined too badly for too long – ironically, by the very fuckers who want to turn it into their personal fiefdom.

    They are locusts that destroy everything, and bring only ruin. When they make their bid for power, it will be undone by the constituency they created to undermine the previous power structure.

    That probably won’t be very comforting for however few of us remain afterwards.

  35. 35
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:31

    Nope. I just drop by once in a while to see if you can get even more stupid. Congratulations, you are devolving nicely.

    Putz.

  36. 36

    Deej Deej Deej,

    The Bill of rights are not up for debate – this has been ruled on by SCOTUS 7 times this century alone. That includes the 2nd so What part of this do you and your progressive pals in the republican party just don’t get?

    90% want this bill – YEAH RIGHT! Sorry not according to what I see out there – there is anger over this and it’s justified. Especially in GOP circles, while you might want to send Diane Fienstine a bunch of Roses and sing her fucking praises for her ‘sensible gun control” – The people that voted for GOP members sent them to DC to stand for our Rights and they stabbed us square between the shoulder blades.

    What you call hand wringing is nothing of the sort. Obama has trotted out that figure based on a poll. What’d they do dial every cell phone in San Francisco and NYC and say they had a result? It wouldn’t surprise me. So the figure of 90% is complete and utter bullshit, you for all you so called pragmatism are doing nothing but carrying the water of tyrants.

    There are ALREADY some 300 Federal and State ‘gun control” laws already on the books – try enforcing those before you step one foot further on infringing MY Rights to keep and bear arms. For Example – why is it that 40,000 people were denied gun purchases in the last year alone but only about 4 % of those were prosecuted? Yet you want to allow debate on THE FURTHER EROSION my rights? I don’t think so.

    And lastly – if this doesn’t make even you quail at the trampling of your rights – there is no hope for you. Have you seen the fucking list in NY of psychotropic drugs that makes you intelligible to purchase a fire arm DJ? Two popped out at me immediately Ambien and Ativan.

    I’ve been on both – do you know why? Ambian, Because I sometimes don’t sleep well – I don’t know why I just don’t – other wise I am a normal productive person – but in the State of NY were I a citizen inside it’s borders taking it would strip me of my inalienable rights because of – periodic bouts with insomnia.
    Ativan I was given during my treatment for cancer – It was told to me when I questioned what it was used for that it was to help control the Exorcist style vomiting cycles that were a by product of the chemo therapy – but as I later found out it is also used as an anti-depressant. In NY this now makes me illegible to own a weapon. Can you say infringe? How many Cancer patients just lost their fucking rights in NY alone DJ- answer me that question.

    If that sort of thing hits the street as FEDERAL law DJ, guess what – I got a dollar that says because of what YOU personally have to deal with much like I did with Cancer that says suddenly – You just lost your rights. Because of a pill. THAT DOESN’T DISTURB YOU? It should Mr. so called Libertarian.

    That is why this bill should have been Dead on Arrival – it allows for amendments to be added back in and it is liable to result in further infringement on top of already 300 other infringements the government of the US and Various states have forced on the American Citizen.

    In closing – It seems to me that you missed one of the over all points of my original post – I stated quite clearly that I know and others should know this does not mean S-679 Is law – I did not mention that it still needs a vote in the house. I didn’t feel the need to – I think most people here are well versed in the political process of law making – other wise they would be lurking around a cooking blog somewhere discussing their latest recipe for fucking snot green guacamole.

  37. 37
    LC Getalis, Imperial Czar of Pharmacology growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE bleeds out his vaj:

    You must have missed the part where a whopping 90 percent of the people in virtually every poll taken on the subject seem to have no problem with criminal background checks and stiff penalties for knowingly selling guns to criminals, terrorists, and the mentally ill.

    90% of the country can support me having a “common-sense” turkey dinner.

    Guess what? I’m still having steak!

    (Get the picture now, cocknose?)

  38. 38
    Anthony L. growls and barks:

    @28, DJ:

    If 90% of people indeed support this clear encroachment on the 2A, there is a procedure. Get 2/3 of congress to propose the amendment, and 3/4 of the States to ratify it. Should be no problem if 90% of the people want this correct? Or am I missing something here.

  39. 39
    Marcus T. Cicero growls and barks:

    Voted for both traitors last elections. It will not happen again. We HAD nine Republican votes in my household,now there is a big fat ZERO. We will vote Libertarian, fuck off Lamar and Bob you are both shit scrapped from my boots……. :em07:

  40. 40
  41. 41

    LC Ohio Right Wing Nut @ #:

    I saw that just now – as they say – the Fix is in. This bill will pass both chambers – in what guise I don’t know but this battle is more or less a done deal I am afraid.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..Carters Foreign Policy is starting to look Fucking BrilliantMy Profile

  42. 42
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:31
    Nope. I just drop by once in a while to see if you can get even more stupid. Congratulations, you are devolving nicely.
    Putz.

    :em05:

    7a: Lashes out in impotent anger when confronted with his own ridiculous behavior.
    7b: Fabricates equivocations and excuses for his presence to trivialize his ass-kicking.
    7c: Erects a metaphorical Corinthian pillar to place himself on.
    7d: Casts a baleful gaze down on those he views as his inferiors.

    Hrm… ya know….

    Reminds me of how my 6 year old grand-nephew acts when he’s hungry or didn’t sleep. Perhaps we should get you a Happy Meal and a nap to improve your disposition? Turn that frown upside down big-guy!

    :em01:

  43. 43
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant says:

    The Bill of rights are not up for debate – this has been ruled on by SCOTUS 7 times this century alone. That includes the 2nd so What part of this do you and your progressive pals in the republican party just don’t get?

    Um…

    The Supreme Court has ruled NUMEROUS times that background checks are constitutional. It has ruled umpteen times that the government CAN restrict types of weapons and who can possess weapons. Hence the reason why I cannot have my stinger missile that I so desperately want.

    Whether any of that is going to “solve” anything is highly questionable.

    All of this shit is just knee-jerk reactions that will have little or no real effect on shootings. Just looking back at the most recent number of “mass shootings”, most were legally permitted to have those weapons. Even if they weren’t, legally permitted, they would still find a way.

    Like I said, I am not advocating for background checks, gun bans, registrations, or any of the other “gun control” euphemisms being tossed out there. Man has the capability to use just about anything he can wrap is grimy hands around for a weapon. We don’t have calls for “rock control” or “knife control” or “baseball bat control”. Why? Because it’s stupid, that’s why.

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant says:

    There are ALREADY some 300 Federal and State ‘gun control” laws already on the books – try enforcing those before you step one foot further on infringing MY Rights to keep and bear arms. For Example – why is it that 40,000 people were denied gun purchases in the last year alone but only about 4 % of those were prosecuted? Yet you want to allow debate on THE FURTHER EROSION my rights? I don’t think so.

    I think you are kinda missing what I am saying here. Lemme see if I can boil it down to something real easy to understand:

    We don’t have a “gun” problem, we have a “behavior” problem.

    I don’t think we need the 300+ laws that are currently on the books that deal with “gun control”. We just need to increase the penalties for people who commit CRIMES using weapons — of any kind..

    We allow too many people to plea bargain out of the actual crimes they commit — all for expediency and cutting costs. We fill our jails and prisons with low-level crimes like drug possession and minor thefts, and are then forced to make deals with armed robbers, and other violent fuckwads because we need to make more room for them in court.

    MY idea of “gun control” is to allow everyone who is out in society to buy/sell/own/possess as many firearms or types of firearms as they desire. No Restrictions, No registrations, no need for “background checks”. The ONLY requirement I would make is that EVERYONE knows that the first time they use a weapon of any kind to commit a crime, they are through. Period. Zero tolerance.

    As long as you can live within the laws of society, then you are golden.

    Most gun owners are law-abiding people and would have no problem with MY solution. They certainly would have more freedom than they do right now.

    Anthony L. says:

    If 90% of people indeed support this clear encroachment on the 2A, there is a procedure. Get 2/3 of congress to propose the amendment, and 3/4 of the States to ratify it. Should be no problem if 90% of the people want this correct? Or am I missing something here.

    Anthony, between 70 and 90 percent of the people DO appear to support background checks by almost every scientific poll out there. That is something that is unheard of normally, and it does stand out. BUT…

    Congress can’t agree on the weather most of the time, so it doesn’t matter whether that number is 10, 50, or 99 percent — Congress doesn’t listen to the people any more, they listen to the big money interests.

    I don’t know about you, but I certainly don’t want another Constitutional Amendment. I don’t want to be tinkering with the Constitution at all.

    LC Getalis, Imperial Czar of Pharmacology says:

    (Get the picture now, cocknose?)

    You are free to do what you want, syphletic pussy-face.

    (gee, isn’t this fun?)

    HempRopeAndStreetlight says:

    Reminds me of how my 6 year old grand-nephew acts when he’s hungry or didn’t sleep.

    Sounds smarter than you do. Been breeding outside the family?
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  44. 44
    Anthony L. growls and barks:

    #43 Deej, “Congress doesn’t listen to the people any more, they listen to the big money interests.”

    Thank you so much for making my point for me. We The People, they put it right in front, in great big letters, so even liberal / progressives could understand it.

  45. 45
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    I reiterate: They can sign shit all day long. I don’t recognize any of it. If my rights are infringed they can fuck off. I’m not registering shit. Not turning in shit. I won’t submit to stupid.

    the rest of this conversation is fight club.

    Molon Labe

  46. 46
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    And I’m going to open carry today. On campus. Teaching. Might just make it a habit. I’ve already cleared it with my Co Sheriff (who also thinks they can fuck off).

    Game on.

  47. 47

    We don’t have a “gun” problem, we have a “behavior” problem.

    I don’t think we need the 300+ laws that are currently on the books that deal with “gun control”. We just need to increase the penalties for people who commit CRIMES using weapons — of any kind..

    We allow too many people to plea bargain out of the actual crimes they commit — all for expediency and cutting costs. We fill our jails and prisons with low-level crimes like drug possession and minor thefts, and are then forced to make deals with armed robbers, and other violent fuckwads because we need to make more room for them in court.

    MY idea of “gun control” is to allow everyone who is out in society to buy/sell/own/possess as many firearms or types of firearms as they desire. No Restrictions, No registrations, no need for “background checks”. The ONLY requirement I would make is that EVERYONE knows that the first time they use a weapon of any kind to commit a crime, they are through. Period. Zero tolerance.

    As long as you can live within the laws of society, then you are golden.

    Most gun owners are law-abiding people and would have no problem with MY solution. They certainly would have more freedom than they do right now.

    Okay damn it – which one of you guys replaced Deej with this right wing death-beast imposter?!?

    Whoever you are – It’s not funny! Cut it out! :em06: Because I am quite confident that any time I find common ground with Deej… The Apocalypse is neigh.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..Carters Foreign Policy is starting to look Fucking BrilliantMy Profile

  48. 48
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Anthony L. says:

    Thank you so much for making my point for me. We The People, they put it right in front, in great big letters, so even liberal / progressives could understand it.

    I don’t think you have to be from any organized Party to realize this. But it seems that it is only Progressives who are pushing for campaign finance reforms and removing the special interest money groups from influencing votes in Congress.

    If you think that Congress doesn’t listen to what YOU have to say, blame Citizen’s United.

    Tango9 says:

    I reiterate: They can sign shit all day long. I don’t recognize any of it. If my rights are infringed they can fuck off. I’m not registering shit. Not turning in shit. I won’t submit to stupid.

    Hey, well have fun with that. But wouldn’t that be ironic if you end up losing your right to bear arms because of a felony conviction for not following the law?

    Just asking…

    Personally, I would follow the law while at the same time challenging it in court. (well, letting someone else with a pile of money challenge it in court…) But then, I am not convinced that ANYthing is going to pass the closer we get to the next election.

    What’s funny about all of this is that when Obama tossed out several separate proposals out there to be considered a few months ago, he made it a point to say that he didn’t expect anything to pass, just that whatever they came up with in Congress deserved a vote.

    I don’t think the votes are there in the House. I think that there are too many Conservo-Dems in the House facing a tough election at home who will vote no, wiping out any defections of the Right.

    The Boner isn’t stupid either. He could put this thing forward KNOWING that it will fail. Why would he do that? To make Obama look bad.

    Tango9 says:

    And I’m going to open carry today. On campus. Teaching. Might just make it a habit. I’ve already cleared it with my Co Sheriff (who also thinks they can fuck off).

    What is to stop the school from terminating you on the spot?

    I suppose you could always get a job with that Sheriff…
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  49. 49
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    “What is to stop the school from terminating you on the spot?

    Hey, well have fun with that. But wouldn’t that be ironic if you end up losing your right to bear arms because of a felony conviction for not following the law?

    Just asking…”

    I’m editing as I’ve considered my replies. You evidently don’t do well in reading comprehension, and/or know shit about which you speak. So let me put you some leranin’ (I do it for a living, so it’s cool)

    1) My state is an open carry state
    2) I have a CC permit
    3) I’ve already discussed this at length with the County Sheriff (btw, for you folks playing at home? He’s THE LE boss, not city police chief(s))
    4) my students carry. I carry. My dept chair knows I carry

    I could follow up with abusive insults regarding your intellect, but that would be unkind, and it’s Friday so I’m supposed to be nice today.

    Carry on.

  50. 50
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    and just to note: I could show up with a full kit including an AR and a standard combat loadout and it’s legal. Now no one does that (I sure as fuck won’t) because everyone will think you’re insane, but it’s not illegal.

  51. 51
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Sounds smarter than you do. Been breeding outside the family?

    :em05:

    8a: DJ Frantically swings at the air, growing more and more desperate to connect.
    8b: His frustration mounting, posts become more erratic, and he begins replying line by line.
    8c: He will show them his brilliance! Feel the power of text-wall! Lightning-bolt!!!”
    8d: Community shrugs at desperate pleas for attention, further fueling DJ’s quest for self actualization.

  52. 52
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Tango9 says:

    You evidently don’t do well in reading comprehension, and/or know shit about which you speak. So let me put you some leranin’ (I do it for a living, so it’s cool)

    Oh, I read it quite well — it is YOUR comprehension I question.

    Tango9 says:

    1) My state is an open carry state
    2) I have a CC permit
    3) I’ve already discussed this at length with the County Sheriff (btw, for you folks playing at home? He’s THE LE boss, not city police chief(s))
    4) my students carry. I carry. My dept chair knows I carry

    mmm…okay. So what is the issue where you felt you needed to first clear it with your County Sheriff first? Is your school one of those fabled “no gun zone” places? Do they have a policy against carrying on campus?

    I only responded because you made it sound like you were being defiant of some campus rule. It was the part where you said the sheriff “(who also thinks they can fuck off)” was the clue.

    For the record: I don’t care if you carry or not.

    Welp, time to get to work. On a new set today. If there are any Arrow fans out there, I have some very disappointing news for you…
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  53. 53
    Igor, Imperial Booby growls and barks:

    Deej, I suggest you look up the definition of “solipsism”. Stating PART of the truth/fact is a nice convenient way to get somebody to go along with you. Ain’t gonna happen here.

    Here’s what you so blindly IGNORE: Our miserable excuse for a Gubmint cannot be trusted any more. The ProgNazis and Marxists are running the Asylum now, and what history has shown is CLEARLY happening in our beloved Country now. Read much history? If so, what part did you not understand about registration. Of ANYthing? What’s the first thing a totalitarian tries to do to the populace before taking power? Wake up, sonny.

    Even if universal background checks do somehow manage to pass into law, there will be no grape-busting over it. You must have missed the part where a whopping 90 percent of the people in virtually every poll taken on the subject seem to have no problem with criminal background checks and stiff penalties for knowingly selling guns to criminals, terrorists, and the mentally ill. Even the internal polls of NRA members don’t seem to have a problem with it — as long as that is the extent of things.

    Where the heck do you get your information, the back of a napkin at a Dumbocrat convention? YOU must have missed the part where we are seeing more and more misuse of information by the Feds for the Marxist-In-Chief’s purposes. I leave it to your “superior” search-fu skills to find examples of this, unless some of the Rotties want to chime in and do your work for you, but there have been at least THREE examples of the States and Feds exchanging information (illegally, I might add!) that are a detriment to our freedom. Or are you ignoring facts that don’t line up to your “rational” world view? (Hint: Solipsism)

    Good to hear from you anyway, bud. Keep on keeping on. We need the “target practice”. :em05:
    Gotta get back to work to support all those “undocumented Democrat voters”.

  54. 54

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #: 30

    Conversely, you can’t show me ANYPLACE where registration DOES lead to confiscation down the road.

    Really? Bet you I can. In fact – It just happened. Aside from obvious Historical references where leftist governments like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union – both of which used registration as a precursor to confiscation there is this little gem floating around these here intertubes….

    NY Police confiscate weapons – and did it via crossing pistol purchase permits with Medical Records.

    Here’s the money quote:

    Erie County’s Licensing Officer, Supreme Court Justice William Boller, was following a recommendation from State Police that David’s permit be revoked because he used anti-anxiety medication in the past. Emphasis mine.
    IN.THE.PAST. The state denied this man his constitutional rights based on something he used / did in the past. And Pray tell me – how in the flying fuck did the NY State Police get his sensitive medical information in the first place?. I can’t even start to list the numerous laws that were violated here. Let’s start with Dr Patient privilege the Privacy Act, and HIPPA among others.

    Then the state goons simply shrugged and said – Oooops, sorry – our bad.

    Want to rethink that statement now? No?

    How about this one: The Democratic Governor of MO is under fire because the MO State Police Department sent an entire listing of CCW holders to – The Federal Government.
    Not once but TWICE…. The most recent – this last January. More Here: Missouri State Senator Kurt Schaefer confirmed today that the Missouri Highway Department did in fact share confidential CCW lists with the federal government in violation of Missouri law.

    What does one have to do with the other? Simple, in BOTH cases Constitutional rights were violated and the agencies involved were clearly aiming to cross check medical records against Firearm Permit Databases and confiscate any weapons they could.

    So you go on and accuse me of hand wringing pal…. Because when they violate YOUR rights…and they will….. I’m going to say – I told ya so.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..Carters Foreign Policy is starting to look Fucking BrilliantMy Profile

  55. 55
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    What is to stop the school from terminating you on the spot?

    well. My dept chair knows I carry, and that would be termination for unjust cause. Do you see the lawsuit?DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    Tango9 says:
    You evidently don’t do well in reading comprehension, and/or know shit about which you speak. So let me put you some leranin’ (I do it for a living, so it’s cool)
    Oh, I read it quite well — it is YOUR comprehension I question.
    Tango9 says:
    1) My state is an open carry state
    2) I have a CC permit
    3) I’ve already discussed this at length with the County Sheriff (btw, for you folks playing at home? He’s THE LE boss, not city police chief(s))
    4) my students carry. I carry. My dept chair knows I carry
    mmm…okay. So what is the issue where you felt you needed to first clear it with your County Sheriff first? Is your school one of those fabled “no gun zone” places? Do they have a policy against carrying on campus?
    I only responded because you made it sound like you were being defiant of some campus rule. It was the part where you said the sheriff “(who also thinks they can fuck off)” was the clue.
    For the record: I don’t care if you carry or not.

    Welp, time to get to work. On a new set today. If there are any Arrow fans out there, I have some very disappointing news for you…
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and Flamekeeper

    you’re an idiot. it’s obvious. Try to cover it up with some makeup next time.

    And for the record, I often buy the sheriff’s dept pizza for their evening shifts. So I occasionally call to see how many deputies will be working and I speak with various folks, and the topic came up.

    That satisfy your curiosity?

    You just have no idea how life works, do you?

    Would you like me to reexplain (for the third goddam time) that it’s an open carry state? English, motherfucker, do you speak it?

    When I said I carry and my students do as well, you *could* have engaged your brain and realized it’s a carry campus. But, not you. Nope.

  56. 56
    VonZorch Imperial Researcher growls and barks:

    readerjp says:

    Your medical info is supposed to be confidential.

    So you thought, actually HIPPA is written so that any small time apparatchik can access your record. See the section on permitted disclosures.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    0007 says:

    And you can’t show me ANYPLACE where registration DID NOT lead to confiscation down the road.

    Conversely, you can’t show me ANYPLACE where registration DOES lead to confiscation down the road.

    Lets see here,
    Turkey 1911 followed by the genocide of million Armenians.
    USSR 1929 followed by the murder of about 20 million dissidents.
    Germany 1928 registration followed by confiscation in 1938 followed by the extermination of about 13 million “undesirables” such as Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
    China 1936 followed by the murder of about 80 million dissidents.
    Australia confiscation
    California confiscation
    New York confiscation

    Nope, nowhere.

  57. 57
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    VonZorch Imperial Researcher says:

    Turkey 1911 followed by the genocide of million Armenians.
    USSR 1929 followed by the murder of about 20 million dissidents.
    Germany 1928 registration followed by confiscation in 1938 followed by the extermination of about 13 million “undesirables” such as Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals.
    China 1936 followed by the murder of about 80 million dissidents.
    Australia confiscation
    California confiscation
    New York confiscation
    Nope, nowhere.

    Good man. It’s painful educating the virtually retarded, ain’t it?

  58. 58
    BigDogg - Imperial Thread Killer (ITK) growls and barks:

    Ah … brings a smile to my face, seeing DJ getting his ass handed to him repeatedly while he holds his hands over his ears and says “Nanny-nanny boo-boo, I really am smarter than all of you meanies.”

    Tyranny of the majority, and all that, DJ. That’s why you live in a representative republic, not a democracy.

    HempRope … you are so spot-on (in all things I’ve seen) it is scary.

  59. 59
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    For the record: I don’t care if you carry or not.

    Do you actually think I give a shit if you *care*? Here: I don’t give a fuck if you care or not. I carry. Go fuck yourself.

  60. 60
    BigDogg - Imperial Thread Killer (ITK) growls and barks:

    Tango9 says:

    Go fuck yourself.

    You seem to get that reaction a lot, Deej. :em05:

  61. 61
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    “You seem to get that reaction a lot, Deej.”

    I am beginning to think it’s what he’s after. Sort of like the internet-forum version of those people that can’t climax unless somebody is choking them…

  62. 62
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:

    I am beginning to think it’s what he’s after.

    Isn’t that what is called “Trolling?” Don’t people get banned for that?

    Sort of like the internet-forum version of those people that can’t climax unless somebody is choking them…

    Oh, it’s porn then.
    :em07:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..No, they won’t take your gunsMy Profile

  63. 63
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Tango9 says:

    When I said I carry and my students do as well, you *could* have engaged your brain and realized it’s a carry campus. But, not you. Nope.

    Sorry, but you weren’t clear. I carry also, but not everywhere.

    So strap up. Wear two if you want. Maybe even one for the ankle, although I have always found them to be uncomfortable. Festoon yourself with firearms — gotta make that statement, by golly.

    Igor, Imperial Booby says:

    Deej, I suggest you look up the definition of “solipsism”. Stating PART of the truth/fact is a nice convenient way to get somebody to go along with you. Ain’t gonna happen here.

    Oy Vey.

    If you simply drill down into what I was saying about MY view on gun control, you might actually discover that I am taking a MUCH more Libertarian view than most of you.

    Forget for a moment my comments on the legality of the proposed universal background checks. The courts have long ago settled that.

    ================ No, this is what I believe: ==========================

    Everyone should be allowed to have any and as many firearms as they choose. No permissions. No background checks. No registrations. No restrictions. Carry as many as you can physically carry if you choose. The ONLY restriction would be that if you were on someone else’s property, THEIR rules apply. Other than that, it is wide open.

    BUT…

    If you step out of line with that weapon, use it or the threat of using it to commit or facilitate a criminal act, then society puts your ass away for the rest of your life. If you don’t want to go to prison for the rest of your life, we can put you down on the street if that is what you want.

    ==============================================================================

    THAT is my position on gun control. It does away with those hundreds of other “gun control” laws already on the books and completely decriminalizes firearms. Instead, it puts the onerous onto the individual who might decide to commit a criminal act using a weapon — where it SHOULD have been in the first place.

    My comments about the background checks were just the legal reality of the situation. “Gun control” is just the typical knee-jerk reactions of the masses concerning a problem that has been misidentified.

    If we want to change things, we need to change the narrative. We don’t have a “gun” problem, we have a “behavior” problem. Deal with the behavior problem and magically the imaginary “gun” problem doesn’t exist.

    Look at it from the other side and you will see the truth in the first statement: If you do away with guns, you will STILL have the behavior problem.

    Why is this so difficult a concept for y’all to grasp?

    Quit acting like whining victims in all of this. Start pushing a counter solution to this “gun control” shit. The ONLY reason it has gotten this far is because the only counter to “gun control” measures has been “NO”.

    Dealing with the behavior problem is a no-brainer. People LOVE the idea of locking festering douchebags up for a LONG time.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  64. 64
    Cougar1978 growls and barks:

    Tango9 says:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:
    For the record: I don’t care if you carry or not.
    Do you actually think I give a shit if you *care*? Here: I don’t give a fuck if you care or not. I carry. Go fuck yourself.

    Wow, Deej, you do have a way with “convincing the plebians” that you’re right, dontcha?

    You’re not convincing anyone of shit, go crawl back into whatever sphincter of a Blue State craphorse you live in, and leave the majority the fuck alone. Otherwise, poke the bear, and see what happens.

    Do you think you’re sneering and condescending bullshit is going to win anyone over? I think not.

    You’re a hopeless passive-aggressive Progressive sourpuss. We get it, you’re smarter than everyone. Here’s a list of others “smarter than the masses.”

    Hitler
    Pol Pot
    Stalin
    Mussolini
    Mao
    Ayatollah Khomeni
    Saddam Hussein

    ALL OF THE ABOVE were for control of everything and sneered at God as they thought they’d do a better job. How miserably they failed, and how miserable they made everyone else.

    Keep on the path, fuckstick.

  65. 65
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Cougar1978 says:

    Wow, Deej, you do have a way with “convincing the plebians” that you’re right, dontcha?

    Actually, I don’t care if he or anyone else carries. I am neither impressed nor scared if someone does or doesn’t. I carry myself, but I don’t make a grand show out of it like some people do. Most of the time you will never know, and I certainly don’t advertise it.

    As far as the second sentence in you blockquote, that wasn’t me.

    Cougar1978 says:

    Do you think you’re sneering and condescending bullshit is going to win anyone over? I think not.

    I am not trying to “win anyone over”, and I can’t help it if you are so fucking dense that you can’t see where I am actually agreeing with the majority here.

    Noooo, instead you don’t even LOOK at what MY position actually is, you just make a blanket assumption of what you think it is.

    And before you open that cock gobbler and complain about MY “condescending” language, go back and see where I am only responding to the way that I am being addressed. Apparently, it is the only language you understand.

    In other words, act civil and you get civil in return.

    I only came for a rational discussion, highlighting an idea that I happen to hold. If you actually READ it, you would see that it is a FAR cry from any progressive/Liberal idea as you can get.

    ME: Do away with gun control laws and give everyone the opportunity to own and possess firearms. No restrictions, no background checks, no nothing.

    Just deal with criminal activity in a harsh way.

    Can it get any simpler for you to understand?

    Probably not.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  66. 66
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Keep on the path, fuckstick.

    Shhhh… don’t make him angry – he might smash his Thomas the Train Engine happy-meal toy on the ground, shriek impotently, and stomp off to parts unknown – *forever.

    *Or about twenty days, whichever comes first…

  67. 67
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    ME: Do away with gun control laws and give everyone the opportunity to own and possess firearms. No restrictions, no background checks, no nothing.

    This from the guy who, not 10 hours ago was telling me I’d get a felony conviction for open carry, knowing fuck all about the laws.

    Right.

    You’re still an idiot.

  68. 68
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    Cougar1978 says:

    Actually, I don’t care if he or anyone else carries. I am neither impressed nor scared if someone does or doesn’t. I carry myself, but I don’t make a grand show out of it like some people do.

    I don’t give a fuck if you care and I don’t give a fuck what you think of a grand show. You’re kind of a little bitch, you know that, right?

    Funny part is I have a sense that if you served? No one liked you.

  69. 69
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Tango9 says:

    This from the guy who, not 10 hours ago was telling me I’d get a felony conviction for open carry, knowing fuck all about the laws.

    Right.

    You’re still an idiot.

    Hey, STUPID. (I can call you that, since you are obviously a fucking LOP.) Ten hours ago I discovered that you are too fucking stupid to understand that we might actually agree in principle on this issue. However, there are a LOT of people here who actually follow my Facebook page who can attest to the fact that I have continuously been pushing this very fucking point for MONTHS.

    It still doesn’t mean that you are just a bit slow on the uptake though.

    HERE IS AN IDEA THOUGH:

    Forget for a moment that I am me. Pretend that it is Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck who is murmuring this in your ear.

    What exactly do YOU think is wrong with what I state as “MY POSITION” in all of this?

    Let’s use your big boy words. Tell me where MY position is so bad in your mind.

    THEN….

    Tell me what YOUR genius idea is, and let’s compare.

    I am betting that you don’t have anything other than just saying “NO”.

    And that is exactly what my point has been all along — NOT having a solution only means that you will FAIL.

    —-

    If I had to stick a four-by-four up your ass to get your attention, it means that this is something that your tiny mind has to realize:

    Just saying “NO” is a fucking road map to failure.

    I am NOT fucking happy with “universal background checks”. or “banning certain firearms” or any kind of “gun control”.. I don’t know how to make this any clearer to your slomo brain. WAKE THE FUCK UP, DINGLEBERRY, I am more anti-gun control than YOU apparently are. And yes, I am a fucking Progressive!

    WHAT THE FUCK IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET YOU TO REALIZE THAT?

    I know that this site is almost reduced to one hand clapping. Do you even see much of Misha hanging around lately? WE all have lives outside of this site. The fact that you have THIS Progressive Liberal willing to see YOUR side of things on the topic of the Second Amendment should at the VERY least make you pay just a smidgen of attention.

    But no, you continue to choose to make this a personal thing.

    Tango, you need to wake the fuck up. ALL of you do. Unless you push for an alternative to this Universal Background Check thing, you may possibly be stuck with it. A HUGE majority of people are on board with it. The Supreme Robes have already given their blessings on it. IF, by some miracle the House manages to pass it, and Obama signs it into law, you are going to be stuck with it.

    Now i know it sound romantic and all that to pretend that there will be this giant armed uprising if this gets passed, but the reality is that tiny group who tries will languish in a federal prison for the rest of their natural lives. Talk is cheap, and nobody here is going to bust a grape. If any of you had that kind of heart, you would have done it already. I am more that familiar with selling wolf tickets, and all of the chest pounding I’ve seen over this issue — it is all selling wolf tickets.

    So let’s just see. Can you drop the name-calling and personal attacks for just one comment and focus ONLY on what MY stated position is? Be honest. Tell me where it fails. Tell me what you think is wrong with it.

    Better yet, how about you tell me what YOU would like to see if YOU were the one calling the shots.

    Something tells me that this will be an impossible task for you.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  70. 70
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Tango9 says:

    I don’t give a fuck if you care and I don’t give a fuck what you think of a grand show. You’re kind of a little bitch, you know that, right?

    Not at all. I am comfortable in my skin. YOU apparently have a need to PROVE something. I don’t feel the need to enhance the size of my penis — and as a licensed psychologist, I can tell you that is exactly what you are trying to convey by being a showboat with your firearm. REAL men don’t need to prove they have a penis.

    You see, it is clear: If you display your firearm for everyone to see, it means that you have this feeling of inadequacy. A person like me, who carries a firearm doesn’t feel the need to let everyone know that I am armed most of the time. In fact, I would rather that most people DIDN’T know.

    Do you see the difference? Any of this sinking in?
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  71. 71

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #: 22

    Oh. Good. Grief.

    If y’all don’t stop wringing your hands, you are going to get callouses. The senate floor is now open for debate — endless debate, after which time, there will still be ample opportunity for filibusters and the like.

    You’re wrong. Again. Shocking! /sarc See update number 2.

    Here is the link in case you don’t feel like bothering to scroll up for it – Assault Weapons Ban Senate Amendment (SA)711 to Senate Bill (S) 679 and others

    EXACTLY as I predicted – the amendments to S679 via SA 711 THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN ACT OF 2013 and a host of others INCLUDING language that allows ANYONE’S Medical records to be accessed by the FBI, DHS, and others to be inserted into the NCIS data base automatically stripping million of people of their rights are now going to be re-inserted into the bill. The only reason this thing wasn’t filibustered (we were told) is because Reid had stripped the AWB and other language out of the bill – so that made it just fine to open for debate. Oooops.

    Here’s a few of those evil guns from that SA that should it pass will be prohibited :

    A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to
    accept a detachable magazine and any 1 of the following:
    (E) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has
    the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

    Know what that means? Just about every 9MM Semi-Auto Handgun on the market.

    A semiautomatic shotgun that has any 1 of the
    following:
    (iii) A fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more
    than 5 rounds.

    That’s a whole bunch of shot guns that just got outlawed….

    All of the following rifles, copies, duplicates, variants, or altered facsimiles with the capability of any
    such weapon thereof:
    “(i) All AK types, including the following:
    “(I) AK, AK47, AK47S, AK-74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR,
    NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR-47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms
    AK-47, VEPR, WASR-10, and WUM.

    That is the first few semi auto rifles they are trying to ban – the list is a country mile long. “Shall not be infringed” just got thrown on the floor.

    Then we have this little gem, which allows the Feds access to your medical records en mass.

    SEC. 117. CLARIFICATION THAT SUBMISSION OF MENTAL HEALTH RECORDS TO THE NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM IS NOT PROHIBITED BY THE HEALTH INSURANCE PORTABILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ACT.

    Information collected under section 102(c)(3) of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 (18 U.S.C. 922 note) to
    assist the Attorney General in enforcing section 922(g)(4) of title 18, United States Code, shall not be subject to the
    regulations promulgated under section 264(c) of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (42
    U.S.C. 1320d-2 note).

    Lost your job? House in foreclosure? Feeling a bit stressed – Your ass best not go to seek professional help over it – not if you want to own a firearm.

    Now, Do you want to tell me again how I shouldn’t be fucking pissed that the so called ‘Conservative’ REPUBLICAN Senators that ran on promises to protect and defend the 2ND Amendment and the U.S. Constitution rolled over by allowing this gun grab to proceed? That I am “hand wringing” over simple debate?…. Well? I’m waiting.

    While you might want to sit there and play devils advocate and talk out your ass about “it still has to pass the house” and are willing to let these elected jackals negotiate your inalienable rights – We’re not. As I said in the original post – this bill should have been DOA on arrival – it shouldn’t have seen the light of day and it wouldn’t have but for 16 feckless traitors with R’s behind their names.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..Carters Foreign Policy is starting to look Fucking BrilliantMy Profile

  72. 72
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant says:

    You’re wrong. Again. Shocking! /sarc See update number 2.

    And if you’ve EVER paid attention to the workings of Congress, you would know that while the Senate might ADD amendments each amendment is subject to a separate filibuster. Additionally, anything that gets passed in one hall is usually changed in the other. If BOTH Houses of Congress passes a bill, it goes to yet another committee for reconciliation — where much of the bullshit is stripped back out of it. Then, the final bill goes back to both houses and is either voted on in the house or filibustered in the Senate.

    We are STILL in the infancy on all of this.

    CiSSnarl5.7, try to have some faith here. By now you should know how sausage is made. This is sausage, and it is pretty ugly in its process.

    The Senate barely got an agreement in the “gang of 8 16. It wouldn’t take much to unravel any agreement they had up until now. Amendments are always going to be proposed. Some may stick, others will fall off. THEN it goes to the House.

    The process starts all over in the House.

    Again — and I cannot stress this enough: come up with an alternative. PUSH that alternative. I made a serious suggestion myself and a couple of people here chose to completely overlook it in favor of just making personal attacks on ME.

    Grass roots is a strong thing. PUSH a REAL agenda solution to what MOST people are concerned with — violence, especially “gun” violence.

    The knee-jerk solution is to blame guns. A more realistic approach is to blame behaviors.

    YOU make a choice. Forget that it is I who am pointing this out to you. Try to reach this on your own, if you can. THEN PUSH THE FUCK OUT OF IT.

    The bottom line here is that if you don’t come up with a viable alternative to “gun control”, you will be stuck with it. Just saying “NO” isn’t a viable alternative. That is the problem you have to start realizing. “NO” is not an option that sells.

    So if it isn’t “gun control”, what is it?

    BEHAVIOR. That is all that remains. Deal with the BEHAVIOR.

    Simple, yet effective.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Dark As The Night, Blue As The Day ~ Michael Cleveland and FlamekeeperMy Profile

  73. 73
    readerjp growls and barks:

    DJ – You keep ducking the question of “medical confidentiality.” Is the governor allowed to look at health care records of private citizens? Is he allowed to use the State Police for his own personal army – like the Gestapo – to go to people and just take their stuff away, without law? That’s Fascism and you can’t make an argument for that.

  74. 74
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    Rage much? I actually read 2 lines of your post, laughed, and stopped. Wall of text = asshole.

  75. 75
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    Is your school one of those fabled “no gun zone” places? Do they have a policy against carrying on campus?

    Definitions of Fable:
    1. a short tale to teach a moral lesson, often with animals or inanimate objects as characters; apologue: the fable of the tortoise and the hare; Aesop’s fables.
    2. a story not founded on fact: This biography is largely a self-laudatory fable.
    3. a story about supernatural or extraordinary persons or incidents; legend: the fables of gods and heroes.
    4.legends or myths collectively: the heroes of Greek fable.
    5.an untruth; falsehood: This boast of a cure is a medical fable.

    So, DJ, which definition are you using? Are you implying that schools are not gun-free zones? The university where I work has “no guns” and “no knives” decals on every door to every building on the entire campus. I know for a fact that people are carrying, but we DO have a weapons ban on campus. *I* won’t be the one turning them in, however.

  76. 76

    CiSSnarl5.7, try to have some faith here. By now you should know how sausage is made. This is sausage, and it is pretty ugly in its process.

    The Senate barely got an agreement in the “gang of 8 16. It wouldn’t take much to unravel any agreement they had up until now. Amendments are always going to be proposed. Some may stick, others will fall off. THEN it goes to the House.

    Sorry, while we DO in fact have common ground on this issue Deej, (Damn it !!Why is it so cold in here?!? : Satan) as I see it, Faith is for fools. No, I am not calling you a fool, I’m not hurling insults at you personally. We are almost 100% in agreement on this issue except for the point about the bill itself going to the floor. But, Faith is for Fools, Especially IRT politicians who are only concerned with their poll numbers and getting themselves the next batch of years in office.

    My entire argument that this bill should have been DOA stands. I simply refuse to let these lying hacks like Corker and Alexander dictate to me or trust them with the “negotiation” of my Inalienable rights any longer. I won’t be played to fool any longer.

    This recent vote just goes to illustrate that point. They’ve betrayed the Constitution numerous time’s – this isn’t a single issue, NDAA ring a bell? Patriot Act? Now I’m to have faith in them to do the right thing with my right to keep and bear arms?

    You yourself have railed against those both long and loud both during the current administration and as far back as Bush’s time, yet you extol me to have faith in this system now? No sorry. tis’ a bridge too far for me. I *used* to have faith in my government to do the right thing, In fact, I’ve supported that government many times, but more and more as of the last 6-8 years or so that faith has been steadily destroyed.

    Having ‘faith’ in this system to me is akin to having battered wife syndrome…”Next time it will be better, Next time he won’t get drunk, Next time he won’t hurt me so bad”….Yeah, and Next time my elected officials whom I trusted with a vote – took faith in their promises – won’t sell me and my rights down the river.

    This isn’t about political games any longer. The little dog and pony shows (sausage making as you call it) they are playing making the Democrats own this bill or that bill, or making the GOP own this or that bill… are beyond any reasonable doubt putting our rights at risk. It’s about principle – you can’t play games with the Bill of rights, you’re either for the 2Nd or Against it- it’s not a matter for debate. That is why I am so furious with my two Senators from TN.

    As I said before – “Never let the Camel Stick his nose inside your tent”. With 300 plus Federal and State Gun laws on the books and more being added by NY, CT, MD, CO and others almost by the day – That Camel certainly has more than his nose in the tent at this point. And I am of the opinion that Mr. Camel needs a fucking good healthy punch right in his ugly puss. Get his fucking ass out of the tent – The RINOS could have help delivered that punch by presenting a united front, and killing this bill. They didn’t. They chose to make sausage, they played games instead.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..In case your wonderingMy Profile

  77. 77
    Draven32 growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    I think you are kinda missing what I am saying here. Lemme see if I can boil it down to something real easy to understand:
    We don’t have a “gun” problem, we have a “behavior” problem.
    I don’t think we need the 300+ laws that are currently on the books that deal with “gun control”. We just need to increase the penalties for people who commit CRIMES using weapons — of any kind..
    We allow too many people to plea bargain out of the actual crimes they commit — all for expediency and cutting costs. We fill our jails and prisons with low-level crimes like drug possession and minor thefts, and are then forced to make deals with armed robbers, and other violent fuckwads because we need to make more room for them in court.

    No, we don’t need to ‘increase the penalties’. You even say yourself that people aren’t getting charged for the violations they are making, will piling on even more harsher charges help? No, they will still get pled away or not prosecuted.

    [Slightly modified for readability's sake. -Venomous]

  78. 78
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Conversely, you can’t show me ANYPLACE where registration DOES lead to confiscation down the road.

    Australia

    Great Britain

    New Zealand.

  79. 79
    Cougar1978 growls and barks:

    Tango9 says:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:
    Rage much? I actually read 2 lines of your post, laughed, and stopped. Wall of text = asshole.

    spot on, Tango!

    Did poor Deeja get sand up her vag?

    Seriously, DJ-All-blowing-Libtard, STMFU.

  80. 80
    Marcus T. Cicero growls and barks:

    :em03: Totally conflicted. Republican since RR, don’t understand what happened with Alexander and Corker. Getting conflicting reports for reason in their VOTE . Need some honest info. IF the action of the 16 Senators was a GOOD thing to bring the vote to the Senate. What gives???

  81. 81

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    I think you are kinda missing what I am saying here. Lemme see if I can boil it down to something real easy to understand:

    We don’t have a “gun” problem, we have a “behavior” problem.

    I don’t think we need the 300+ laws that are currently on the books that deal with “gun control”. We just need to increase the penalties for people who commit CRIMES using weapons — of any kind..

    We allow too many people to plea bargain out of the actual crimes they commit — all for expediency and cutting costs. We fill our jails and prisons with low-level crimes like drug possession and minor thefts, and are then forced to make deals with armed robbers, and other violent fuckwads because we need to make more room for them in court.

    MY idea of “gun control” is to allow everyone who is out in society to buy/sell/own/possess as many firearms or types of firearms as they desire. No Restrictions, No registrations, no need for “background checks”. The ONLY requirement I would make is that EVERYONE knows that the first time they use a weapon of any kind to commit a crime, they are through. Period. Zero tolerance.

    As long as you can live within the laws of society, then you are golden.

    Most gun owners are law-abiding people and would have no problem with MY solution. They certainly would have more freedom than they do right now.

    For those of you who are apparently blinded merely by DJ breathing, THIS IS ABSOLUTE COMMON SENSE HE IS SPEAKING! Read that clip I snagged. THAT is exactly what I read out of the first couple of comments he made that he was attacked over. No “gun control”, do away with the crazy fuckers that do these things. All of this bullshit is to destroy the 2A, and they want to destroy the 2A for the very reason it was written.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant says:

    Okay damn it – which one of you guys replaced Deej with this right wing death-beast imposter?!?

    Whoever you are – It’s not funny! Cut it out!

    What baffles me is that more do not see this side of DJ. I’ve p.m.ed him, we’ve chatted in various places, swapped emails, on and on. This, boys and girls, is where I’ve always found him to reside philosophically. Well, maybe one or two things, but the bulk of it.
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..These are easy enough to build for yourselfMy Profile

  82. 82

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    I only came for a rational discussion, highlighting an idea that I happen to hold. If you actually READ it, you would see that it is a FAR cry from any progressive/Liberal idea as you can get.

    ME: Do away with gun control laws and give everyone the opportunity to own and possess firearms. No restrictions, no background checks, no nothing.

    Just deal with criminal activity in a harsh way.

    EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

    Uhm, Deej? What are you saying about Arrow? I’m probably not the only one who watches it.
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Your reality check of the day- Communism never diedMy Profile

  83. 83

    Draven32 says:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    I think you are kinda missing what I am saying here. Lemme see if I can boil it down to something real easy to understand:
    We don’t have a “gun” problem, we have a “behavior” problem.
    I don’t think we need the 300+ laws that are currently on the books that deal with “gun control”. We just need to increase the penalties for people who commit CRIMES using weapons — of any kind..
    We allow too many people to plea bargain out of the actual crimes they commit — all for expediency and cutting costs. We fill our jails and prisons with low-level crimes like drug possession and minor thefts, and are then forced to make deals with armed robbers, and other violent fuckwads because we need to make more room for them in court.

    No, we don’t need to ‘increase the penalties’. You even say yourself that people aren’t getting charged for the violations they are making, will piling on even more harsher charges help? No, they will still get pled away or not prosecuted.

    [Slightly modified for readability's sake. -Venomous]

    How hard is it to see that what DJ is saying is DON’T FUCKING PLEA BARGAIN!
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Senator Pat Toomey is your Gutless Republican of the Day!My Profile

  84. 84

    DJ Allyn, MPSE says:

    ================ No, this is what I believe: ==========================

    Everyone should be allowed to have any and as many firearms as they choose. No permissions. No background checks. No registrations. No restrictions. Carry as many as you can physically carry if you choose. The ONLY restriction would be that if you were on someone else’s property, THEIR rules apply. Other than that, it is wide open.

    BUT…

    If you step out of line with that weapon, use it or the threat of using it to commit or facilitate a criminal act, then society puts your ass away for the rest of your life. If you don’t want to go to prison for the rest of your life, we can put you down on the street if that is what you want.

    ==============================================================================

    THAT is my position on gun control. It does away with those hundreds of other “gun control” laws already on the books and completely decriminalizes firearms. Instead, it puts the onerous onto the individual who might decide to commit a criminal act using a weapon — where it SHOULD have been in the first place.

    *SIGH* One more quote from 20 posts ago, and yet all the reactions to it I read in the next 10 seemed to miss that statement. As for the background checks? The numbers I heard yesterday were 17,000 failures, 44 prosecutions. Every single one of those should have been questioned. Some of them may have been bullshit, a number of those false positives have been. But the point is, commit a crime with a gun, die on the spot or rot in jail. I can agree with that point while disagreeing with these damnable background checks for a governmental control device. :em08:
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Quote for 12 April, 2013My Profile

  85. 85
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    I view rottie as the big kid locker room. We can come in here, show our asses, talk shit, fight among one another, cuss, spit and just generally be obnoxious. I have a feeling DJ and I will agree on more than we disagree on. But where’s the fun in that?

  86. 86

    Tango9 says:

    But where’s the fun in that?

    :em03: :em05: :em03: :em07:
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Senator Pat Toomey is your Gutless Republican of the Day!My Profile

  87. 87
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    I just came from a adult party store. I had heard about it, but since it’s a good 40 minute drive, I haven’t had the time to visit it. Until today. I picked up 4 boxes of .45 party favors and 2 boxes of 9mm party favors.
    :em01:
    They also had .223 noisemakers, but they were limiting it to 2 boxes.
    :em08:

    They had lots of other adult toys on hand including items that send Diane Feinstein’s heart into full blown arrhythmia. :em01:

    Business was good it seemed to me.

    Just doing my part for the debate on removing my civil rights. I voted…with my wallet.
    :em07:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..No, they won’t take your gunsMy Profile

  88. 88
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    well here. The best presidential speech ever given: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tpH5L8zCtSk#!

  89. 89
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    readerjp says:

    DJ – You keep ducking the question of “medical confidentiality.”

    I do?

    i’m not sure how many more times I am going to repeat myself before I just throw my hands up here…

    I will type slowly…

    1. I propose to DO AWAY with all “gun control” laws.

    2. I also propose that any and everyone is free to own and possess any and all numbers of firearms as they so desire, with no restrictions, no registrations, no background checks, no nothing. It should be as easy to by a fucking candy bar as it is to buy a firearm, and NOBODY should be in a position to stop you.

    3. I figure that if you are “too dangerous” to own a gun, then you are “too dangerous” to be on the streets.

    In the case of the severely mentally disturbed, they should be put in a humane place with close supervision, but allowed to carry on as normal a life as possible.

    In the case of a violent criminal, they should be locked away for the rest of their lives.

    There is a certain truth here:

    If we were to magically do away with guns today, we would still have a behavior problem.

    If we were to deal with the behavior problem, there wouldn’t be any need for “gun control”.

    This is how simple it really is.

    I don’t know how in the hell people here seem to get the idea that I am in any way in favor of “gun control laws”. I AM NOT, and NEVER HAVE BEEN.

    However,

    The courts have continuously said that background checks ARE legal:

    [...]
    2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56. [Emphasis Mine]

    Me, simply stating a fact does in no way mean that I am for it. It’s like me saying that shit stinks. That (in most cases) is a fact. It doesn’t imply one way or the other that I like it.

    Draven32 says:

    No, we don’t need to ‘increase the penalties’. You even say yourself that people aren’t getting charged for the violations they are making, will piling on even more harsher charges help? No, they will still get pled away or not prosecuted.

    Yes, we do. We need to take violent criminals off the street period. You cannot “rehabilitate” them, they only tend to get worse. Besides, the only thing that these people understand is draconian punishment. If you coddle them or tell them that “it isn’t your fault that you took drugs” then you will always give them a ready excuse for their actions.

    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician says:

    Uhm, Deej? What are you saying about Arrow? I’m probably not the only one who watches it.

    I emailed you Chris. It isn’t for public consumption yet, since the news is less than a week old. I’d appreciate it if you kept it to yourself for now. Things might work out down the road…
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Your Song ~ Elton JohnMy Profile

  90. 90
    readerjp growls and barks:

    Nowhere in your answer do you respond to my questions about:

    1. The right of the governor and/or federal government and/or state police having the power to look at your medical records. Period. I’m not talking about guns, this issue has nothing to do with guns.

    2. Does the governor have the right to use the State Police as his own private army?

    3. Do the governor and state police have the right to take away ANYTHING from you, when there is no law justifying it?

    You can’t deny that people’s rights, including to that of privacy, are being violated. Suppose they see you took some mental health drug – do they have the right to declare you “dangerous” and lock you up? If there’s no law saying they can’t? They have done it in all Fascist countries. We are slowly moving toward tyranny.

  91. 91

    readerjp says:

    1. The right of the governor and/or federal government and/or state police having the power to look at your medical records. Period. I’m not talking about guns, this issue has nothing to do with guns.

    Is the glass half full, half empty, or does it contain a 50% level? It’s not right, but it’s legal. We must get that changed in some fashion, but at the moment that’s how it is.
    readerjp says:

    2. Does the governor have the right to use the State Police as his own private army?

    No. That is what the state National Guard is for.
    readerjp says:

    3. Do the governor and state police have the right to take away ANYTHING from you, when there is no law justifying it?

    Clearly a no. Legally. But it makes no difference in the legality of it if the serfs suffer it.
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..The truth about the gun grabMy Profile

  92. 92
    forresthump growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator @ #:
    Has a ring to it.

  93. 93
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    The mainstream news media have covered every detail of the mass murder that was committed in Newtown, Connecticut and the shooting of Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford’s, and yet in 2010, a mass murder of another kind has been ignored by the large mainstream media, including today’s trial testimony against abortion doctor, Kermit Gosnelll.

    In January 2011, after a lengthy investigation, Kermit Gosnell, a Philadelphia abortion doctor who ran his West Philadelphia abortion clinic was charged with the murder of one woman and seven newborn babies.

    Stephen Murray of the Triumph reported in 2011, gruesome detail of what started as a raid on Gosnell’s clinic on the suspicion that he was distributing prescription drugs illegally turned out to reveal what Murray called, a “house of horrors”.

    Murray reported, “The facility was filthy. Flea-infested cats roamed the hallways. There was blood on the floor, animal excrement on stairwells. The stench of urine permeated the air. Medical instruments were left unsterile. Moaning, drugged-up patients were covered with blood-soaked blankets. And the remains of 45 fetuses were strewn all over the facility, stuffed in bags, jars, plastic jugs, juice cartons—even cat-food containers.” If they really care so much for the children why is there not one word about this from them?

  94. 94
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    readerjp says:

    1. The right of the governor and/or federal government and/or state police having the power to look at your medical records. Period. I’m not talking about guns, this issue has nothing to do with guns.

    Well honestly, I am not even focusing on it. But since you insist on an answer, the government already has a record of people who have been committed to state hospitals. As far as the “right” goes, I don’t believe the government has ANY “rights”.

    “Rights” aren’t conferred to governments, only to the People. The better question is do the PEOPLE have the right to privacy from the prying eyes of the government?

    I can give you two separate answers on this: the facts, and my personal opinion.

    FACT: Doctors are already required to report the use of certain drugs, treatments, and observed behaviors to the government. Mental health professionals normally keep the doctor/patient confidentiality except if there is a professional opinion that the patient is likely to be an immediate danger to himself or others. Then they are required to report it.

    Additionally, involuntary commitments involve the courts, and as a court record becomes a very public record. The details of the commitment can be sealed, but not the actual record of being committed.

    I am guessing that this would be the type of record that would be used for a background check. Not the particulars, but the actual record that someone had been committed.

    OPINION: I still go back to what MY idea is. If someone is considered to be too dangerous to own a gun, then they are too dangerous to be out in the open public without direct supervision. There would be no “universal background check” to see if someone should be allowed to own a gun or not, therefore the government involvement in gun ownership is not needed.

    readerjp says:

    2. Does the governor have the right to use the State Police as his own private army?

    In what context? Are you talking about a unilateral use of the state police to enforce “law” that has not gone through the legislative process? The answer would be NO. But can the governor order the state police to enforce statutory laws? The answer would then have to be YES, without question.

    readerjp says:

    3. Do the governor and state police have the right to take away ANYTHING from you, when there is no law justifying it?

    Nope.

    I hope that answers your questions that I have apparently been “ducking”.

    But let me add this for you:

    You are concerned about privacy from the government’s prying eyes, yet you ignore a very real threat to your every day privacy. The government isn’t your problem when it comes to a breach in your privacy. You focus on the government while not realizing that your every purchase, your every key stroke, your every action is being watched and recorded by big business.

    You cannot even come to this website without your every word recorded, cataloged and tracked. You cannot watch television without a record of what you watch being recorded. Your email is recorded, your telephone numbers and contacts are being recorded. If you use those “loyalty cards” at the supermarket for those “rewards” and discounts — a record of your purchases are being made. Some stores want you to give them your phone number when you buy things. I went to Pizza Hut the other day and they wanted my phone number in order to give me a discount. I gave them a fake phone number off the top of my head, and he was able to actually find where someone with that number living in Portland had been in a Pizza Hut somewhere using that number. (he asked me if I wanted to change my address)

    The point is, all of this information being gathered on you is continuously being sold over and over again 24/7/365. It has been estimated that your name and personal information is being circulated through hundreds of different databases at all times. Everything you do, everywhere you go, everyone you are in contact with is being watched, collected, packaged, and sold.

    ChoicePoint once had the world’s largest collection of personal information on virtually everyone. The government went to them for information. Now that information is probably controlled by Lexis Nexis.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Your Song ~ Elton JohnMy Profile

  95. 95
    readerjp growls and barks:

    Thank you, DJ. I am not so concerned about being tracked, but I DO believe patients have the right to have their medical records kept confidential. Doesn’t the government have to subpoena them if they want to use them in a prosecution?

    It concerns me that the government can use these records to do anything based on no law. The governor could incarcerate people he deems dangerous; maybe in a mental institution, maybe in prison. I don’t think there is a law in NY State enabling the governor – or anyone else – to make these kinds of decisions, or to take away property. Or revoke licenses. I understand that if you’re a licensed professional, a review by your peers determines what penalty- if any – you should pay. And if we let them get away with it, what’s next?

  96. 96
  97. 97
    Bones growls and barks:

    Either hell has frozen over and satan is issuing fur coats for all its’ denizens because it is so cold, OR someone has taken over DJ’s person, OR the pod people finally left his form. I can’t believe that I am going to say this, but… DJ, you have made a very cogent and correct arguement FOR THE CORRECT SOLUTION. I vehemetly disagree with you that this bill should have NEVER been brought to the floor, but your solution to the “gun control” (should be a two-handed grip?) issue is spot on.

  98. 98
    VonZorch Imperial Researcher growls and barks:

    Okay, once again, HIPPA is written so that any petty apparatchik can access your medical records simply by saying that the information will be used for public safety or health uses. If you want to look at it, the link is in comment 56. Damn people, read the comments before you post, I didn’t spend 45 perfectly good seconds finding that information for nothing.

  99. 99
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    As I indicated above, Congress doesn’t listen to the people, only the special interests that fill their campaign funds. The Senate didn’t pass the background check / registration law or any of the other amendments — I really didn’t expect them to. If it couldn’t pass in the Senate, it really wasn’t going anywhere in the House.

    So while Obama may appear “upset” in public, all he asked for was a “vote” on each proposal. He got exactly what he asked for, so he accomplished what he set out to do.

    He knew he wasn’t going to get anything out of this Congress. But at least he had to pander to his base — and he did so. Now he will try to get that to translate into getting the base out on an off season election — something that Democrats have a problem doing. This is nothing more than political theater, pure and simple.

    Now, if only someone would use MY idea on all of this and just increase the penalties on people who use weapons to commit crimes against people.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Taxman ~ The BeatlesMy Profile

  100. 100

    How about a mandatory 10 years for committing a crime with a gun,, 20 years if it’s fired, and life in prison if anyone is hurt or killed?
    Florida folks know this as the 10-20-LIFE sentencing rule.
    15 years minimum if the forcible assault is committed with a full or semi auto pistol or rifle.

  101. 101
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech says:

    How about a mandatory 10 years for committing a crime with a gun,, 20 years if it’s fired, and life in prison if anyone is hurt or killed?

    How about skipping to the mandatory life for the use of ANY weapon in the commission of a crime. Seems a lot simpler to me.

    But hey, I would go with the 10-20-Life thing if it included all weapons instead of just firearms.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Taxman ~ The BeatlesMy Profile

  102. 102
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    How about skipping to the mandatory life for the use of ANY weapon in the commission of a crime. Seems a lot simpler to me.

    How about the use of any weapon during the commission of a crime is a mandatory death sentence? Your willingness to use a weapon implies you have intent to commit murder.

    The one caveat would be a burglar who breaks into a home with tools that cold be misused as weapons and surprising the home owner. If he retreats or surrenders, then he just gets 20 years.
    (He thought the place was empty therefor no intent to use a weapon, even the crowbar he had with him to break into the house)

    Of course, the home/property owner can still shoot the silly criminal for breaking into his property. :em01:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Why is Boehner still Speaker of the House?My Profile

  103. 103
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    angrywebmaster @ #:102

    I think I would save the death penalty for those who actually committed the murder. But for the rest, we could give them the option of live or death. Let them decide.
    DJ Allyn, MPSE recently posted..Personal Jesus ~ Depeche ModeMy Profile

  104. 104
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, MPSE @ #:

    I think I would save the death penalty for those who actually committed the murder. But for the rest, we could give them the option of live or death. Let them decide.

    I think I would save the death penalty for those who actually committed the murder. But for the rest, we could give them the option of live or death. Let them decide.
    And this is what we call a minor disagreement over policy. :)

    Actually, I’m trying to remember where I first heard the idea of execution if a weapon was involved, even if it wasn’t used. IIRC, if you have a machinegun in the trunk of your car and you rob a liquor store, they will charge you additionally for the machinegun even if it stays in the trunk.

    I’m NOT sure about that one however
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Ricin soaked letters sent to congress, White HouseMy Profile


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