Equal Opportunity – Unequal Risks

Looking through various headlines I came across this:

Marine General says women ready for Combat

This is sure to be a hot button topic- so At the risk of crossing swords with the G.L.O.R’s here across the mighty Empire I have to say simply this – it’s wrong. It’s just flat out wrong. The General – G-d Bless her for her commitment and service in the Jihadi infested  hell holes known as Iraq and Afghanistan – I’m eternally grateful she survived it – is still dead wrong and as I see it shouldn’t have been there in the 1st place. Sorry to be a knuckledragger ladies. It’s just my opinion. Be it opinion or not there are reasoning’s behind the position I take IRT this subject. Read on.

This isn’t about any BS ‘battle of the sexes’ the so-called  ‘Women’s liberation’ or even ‘fairness’. It’s not even about ‘Equal Opportunity’. In fact I would call it Unequal Opportunity in the extreme because while a male can throw himself into the meat grinder called combat mostly with out fear of being caught by the enemy and raped – a woman cannot.

Women provide invaluable support to the Long War effort. Let me be clear on that point, I know they do because  I’ve worked along side them many times. But they don’t need to be on the front lines facing this enemy – or frankly any enemy for that matter.

This is more  about a society, particularly ours, and the liberal rot that infects it, that somehow demands that we on one hand protect women against sexual deviants and predators with ‘rape whistles’ and ‘call boxes’ yet turn around and deny them the right to carry a gun – a society that then, 30 seconds later, turns right around yet again and gives them a gun, send them to a war zone, and demands that now -  we accept that women be allowed to face combat up close and personal. Because that’s “Equal Opportunity” don’t you know?

To illustrate this conflicting stance we have on women  – take this Case in point: The headlines are awash right now with a case that is close to where I grew up – Stubbenville Ohio. A bunch of testosterone overload, some booze and the all to common (well at least these days) results of a sexual assault recorded on video of a 16 year old girl.

People are frothing at the mouth damn near forming lynch mobs against these two teens – as well as they should be. I’d think those two boys would probably warrant some serious protection would that have been my daughter.

Yet some of these same people are bound to be somehow okay with the thought of woman in combat. It’s a complete nonsensical stance to somehow demand protection for this 16 year old girl but in the next breath agree it’s okay to send an 18 year old woman into a combat zone – Does anyone – and I mean anyone other than a PC indoctrinated mouth breathing drug addled moron – really think that a enemy combatant from whatever-stan is going to be any kinder than these two idiot football players???

One of the photos I saw being held by a person demanding justice for this girl – “End Sexual Violence”. Great I’m 100% in agreement. Wait – Oh now you want me to put that same girl at the tender mercies of an implacable enemy hell bent on killing every last infidel on earth – and bonus points if he can do it on a live video feed. Triple bonus points if it is a woman? Sure, makes complete sense to me…..or not.

Let me be blunt about the question as to if the Jihadis will treat a woman better than these football players did – they wont. In fact that 16 year girl would have been treated worse than a testosterone overload drunk football player could even dream of, and  probably anything the western mind can comprehend. Women are for breeding. That is a very PREVALENT mind set of the males in Middle Eastern Society, the lower the economic and social status of the  Middle Eastern Male the more prevalent that thought of women being chattel to men becomes. And to be further blunt – the crown prince of Saudi Arabia isn’t out there in Afghanistan waging Jihad. It’s the dirt poor, poorly educated lower class Middle Eastern Male out there wiring up the IEDS and fighting for a poppy field in Afghanistan. And they don’t give a damn one way or the other about raping a woman if the chance presents itself.

You can twist and shout and argue about ‘moderate Islam’ and ‘moderate Muslims’ all you want – scream to the high heavens until you bust a vocal cord about ‘that’s not mainstream Middle Eastern Society!!” And I will tell you flat out – you are deluding yourself – dangerously so. The fact of the matter is,  that in a male dominated society as is found across 99% of  the Middle East – women are not regarded as being on the same levels of society as men. They just aren’t. To those willfully deluded  I simply will say – spend some time in the sandpit. You’ll see it up close and personal.

There were some reports floating around after the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi was over run that the Ambassador was raped. I don’t know how true it is, there’s so much smoke and misdirection being put out on the subject it’s hard to tell,  I don’t find it all that hard to believe  – but is this what we as a nation want to subject ourselves to ? Is this what we want to have splashed across the MSM 24/7 news cycle for weeks that – Private Jane Doe was captured and then tortured and raped – and now those videos in all their graphic disgust are on every video site on the internet  al la Daniel Pearle and Ambassador Stevens ?

To be perfectly honest, that this is being allowed  -and nary a conservative voice has been raised in anger about it?  I think it shows clearly – our moral compass just broke.

What sort of society are we that will send our own Daughters into a hot war zone? To face an enemy that has no qualms what-so-ever about turning her into a sex toy? What sort of Society condones putting them at the front lines to face the horrors that send even the fiercest among us to months, years, or a lifetime of treatment for combat stress related disorders.

My answer to those queries? It’s a society as I have outlined  – that is mired in impossible contortions between right and wrong, where people are so clue bereft that they can actually in 30 seconds flat contradict themselves a full 360 degrees and utterly not be able to see the glaring hypocrisy in their thought pattern. A society that has forgotten what true honor for a woman is.

I’m not going to even delve into the physical side of this argument. Biology is what it is, and that is pretty much obvious. Very few woman can handle the same physical loads that a man can. But sending women in to combat, It’s not about physical or mental toughness – I know some tough women – my better half one of them – it’s about dignity, and keeping some amount of respect for our daughters, wives, and mothers. Sending them off to a meat shredding fest in some far flung corner of the globe to prove how tough they are -neither respects, dare I say it- the  gift  G-d gave us in the guise of a woman, nor does it prove a damn thing other than we are a bunch of idiots that can’t see wrong from right. The flip side of it though is ; Abdual that ain’t seen nothing but the south end of a goat in 6 months is sure to be appreciative the first time he lays hand on some 18 year old gal from the Great Satan that’s for sure.

According to some reports there were 150 woman killed in action since the war began in 2003. That’s 150 daughters, wives, maybe mothers that are gone. Dead. Never to have a child or if they did, raise that child and give it the security and affection that only a mother can provide. Are we ready to do this en mass? I guess we are because g-d forbid we not prostate ourselves at that PC Altar called Equal Opportunity .

Another side of this – The U.S. Federal Government KNOWS what is going on in the Middle East. They know it, they know the culture,  and they turn a blind eye to it. Instead to prove they are doing SOMETHING – ANYTHING…. they force anyone civilian and military alike, working on a U.S. Government funded project to complete what is known and “TIPS” or trafficking in persons education. Basically this is a bunch of feel good online training that boils down to “don’t hire hookers”. And still, despite being fully aware of it,  the head shed in DC, always ready to kneel at the alter of political correctness, and appease their Liberal focus groups – demand we put our wives and daughters right into the midst of a war zone on the front lines risking them in a society that has little or no compulsion to stop the sex trafficking of countless numbers of women.

So maybe someone should ask at this point: “Gee Snarl – it’s all about sex with you? Isn’t it?”

No  it is not – far from it, because rape is only one of the disgusting by products of dealing with a enemy that does not value women let alone any one other than their own kind. Full Stop.  No, It’s not about sex but  I have to ask – do you want to be party to this ? Do You want YOUR government to send your daughter or YOUR wife to end up here? Are we as a society ready to see our women brutalized like this? These were just a bunch of ‘dirt bag contractors’ liberals actually applauded it when it happened but -  What happens when it’s the Prom Queen of Middleburgh Anywhere?  I guess EO was severed it’s pound of flesh after all eh? Watch the video and get back to me on that M-kay?

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56 comments

  1. 1
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    My arguement against women in combat is much, -much- simpler.

    The added cost of training, deploying, supporting and maintaining females in the armed forces, particularly in front line combat, do not justify the added expense of doing so.

    The military should not be a goddamn social program. It exists for the purposes of defending the interests of the people of the united states, and should be operated in the most efficient manner possible. Full stop.

    Unless it can be proven to make the military more effective in some provable, measurable way, it should be discarded.

  2. 2
    LC/IB PrimEviL growls and barks:

    Snarl,
    I am in 100% accordance with you. There are lots of support tasks that women can do, and in some
    cases do better than their male counterparts; that female nesting instinct, that keeps things organized.
    Plus, for every support position occupied by a woman, a male asset is freed to the tough stuff.

    Not that I’m totally against women in combat. If you can put together a regiment of female hulkers capable
    of making a male cage-fighter blanch; then let them have at it. After all, we know how our enemy despises
    and fears women. Nothing like being crunched by a horde of female Godzillas to really make them piss
    down their leg.
    LC/IB PrimEviL recently posted..Lassies of the DayMy Profile

  3. 3
    Library Czar growls and barks:

    I’m willing to be even more of a throwback. Civilized culture does not allow women on the battlefield as combatants. Women make fine fighter pilots and can fill other rolls but going head to head with enemies is not their role. And in western culture we are raised (some of us anyway) to protect women and children at all costs. I would suppose that is the natural order God intended and having women in combat goes against everything I believe.

  4. 4
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Snarl; in counterpoint, one word:

    Israel.

  5. 5

    LCBrendan @ #:4

    I thought about that Brendan- and to be frank, I care not what Israel – or any other country for that matter, does with it’s daughters, I’m never going to agree that it is right. Knuckle draggin’ as that stance may be.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..Equal Opportuniy – Unequal RisksMy Profile

  6. 6
    LC Light29ID growls and barks:

    I will argue the physical aspect. How many women do you know that can run 50 meters under fire, pick up a fully combat loaded Marine whose wounded weighing in at 250+ with gear and drag/carry him back? Oh yeah, do this after you’ve been running up and down hills for days or weeks from sun up until after dark with limited breaks, food or water.

  7. 7
    djmoore growls and barks:

    LC-Brendan: “Israel”.

    My first thought too, but Israel is exceptional: It is a tiny island of civilization in a sea of savages. Nowhere in Israel are you more than a few minutes away from the front lines.

    Under those conditions, you want every single adult armed and trained, not to militia standards, but military standards.

    But I weep to think what that is doing to the nurturing half of their culture.

    And I wonder if there are any trustworthy reports as to how the presence of women in fighting units affects male morale.

  8. 8
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    As I understand it, the IDF has a high esprit de corps, and the role of women on combat has been part of Israel for decades. They have had more than enough time to work out the bugs and issues.

    As I understand it: there IS no morale problem.

    Try to take them away from combat . and the men will be the ones in your face asking what the hell you think you are doing. Women have more than earned their place in the IDF , the only morale issue is with the enemy who can’t handle the idea of a female soldier armed and armoured kicking their ass, or of a females voice being the last thing they hear before they get an AMRAAM in the face.

    With all respect, maybe the Israeli model is the one that proves women are viable in combat, and that maybe the old traditions and values have passed their use by date.

    Nurturing is one thing, the sheer ferocity of a woman protecting her young would be one no man would dare underestimate, at his peril.

    I submit that perhaps that time has come, and that the same values that are held of a woman’s roles in society are the same ones that have held them back from proving their worth.

  9. 9
    VonZorch Imperial Researcher growls and barks:

    I suggest that women be allowed to go into combat arms if they can meet the same physical requirements that men are. If they choose to endanger themselves they should be allowed to.

  10. 10
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    This isn’t about any BS ‘battle of the sexes’ the so-called ‘Women’s liberation’ or even ‘fairness’. It’s not even about ‘Equal Opportunity’. In fact I would call it Unequal Opportunity in the extreme because while a male can throw himself into the meat grinder called combat mostly with out fear of being caught by the enemy and raped – a woman cannot.

    A woman is far more likely to be assaulted and raped as a civilian in her home town or the USA in general, than she is in combat.

    No, It’s not about sex but I have to ask – do you want to be party to this ? Do You want YOUR government to send your daughter or YOUR wife to end up here?

    Snarl you missed a step...the one where they SIGNED UP fully aware of the dangers and risks, knowing they can be sent anywhere…that they volunteered to serve and knew full well that they may go in harms way, and that their enemy is an uncivilised, brutal bastard?

    Snarl: No one is sending anyone where they dont want to go , each and every soldier is a volunteer and I can double damned well gaurantee you that any woman in a combat role will be in no delusion whatsoever as to what they are asking for, and what they are getting themselves into.

    Tradition is good, it’s a signpost to who we were, what we once had, it’s invaluable, but if we cling to those traditions and those values, we will never do anything new, never break any barriers.

    The IDF have proven it can work, granted, their stuation is unique, however they did it.

    Any woman that signs up and says they want to be a combat soldier will be left in no doubt from day one what they are signing up for, what the dangers are, what the risks are..and they will say “YES,SIR i KNOW SIR, SIGN ME UP ANYWAY SIR”

    I dont know what the answer is, Snarl, but if a woman picks up a weapon and demands to know where the enemy is so she can kill their asses stone dead….all i would do is point, hand her extra ammo and some grenades and remind her to keep her head down.

    You want to protect and love them, God bless you for it…all I am saying is that maybe the times have changed, and that the role of women is not what it was fifty years ago.

    If they wish to serve, be prepared to lay down their lives in defence of their country, to give that last full measure of devotion….who are we to deny them?

    Let the standards be high, the training brutal, the tests unforgiving and unrelenting, let them pass the same tests at the same level as men….and let those who pass that test be granted the right to go into combat.

    To paraphrase Heinlein:

    “The noblest fate that a citizen can endure is to place their own mortal body between their loved ones, their home, and war’s desolation”

  11. 11
    LC Guy S growls and barks:

    Allow this ol retired Squid to toss his two cents into the mill.

    1. Israel (and there are others, if memory serves, but She is the best example) seems to be doing it correctly. To the best of my knowledge they do not “bend the rules/requirements” for the females in the IDF, they are expected to be able to do the same job(s) as their male counterparts. And as mentioned above, they are a unique case due to the jackals on three of the four sides of their borders. We would be wise to follow exactly their example, if we are going down that same path.

    2. BUT (You knew that was coming didn’t you?), having seen how our military (and yes, I was in when “Z grams” were in fashion…and all the crap resulting from them) has increasingly become one big petri dish for the social scientists to shoot their loads into…NO not only no but… HELL NO! I have seen a time when my fellow Sailors regardless of their gender (or ethnicity…but that is a story for another post) viewed themselves as SAILORS FIRST. Sure there were males who needed to be dragged out back and “counseled” as to not only treat their subordinates, but how to treat a woman as well. As there were a few (at least in the early to late 70′s) females who did the “but I can’t do that cause I’m just a girl” trick…they were taken behind the woodshed by some of their female compatriots and quickly told (in so many slaps) that wasn’t going to fly anymore either.

    As the social experiment went on (Women being allowed to enter into all but jobs specific to subs and special ops … ie SEALS and the like) and it was discovered cutoff scores for advancement in the various ratings were being “lowered” for women in order that more would be able to enter into and advance in various jobs….and that physical requirements were lowered across the board for females vice any age group of males…well, moral took a hit… camaraderie/espirt de corps became lessened in commands….and a gulf between Sailors and “Women in the Navy came into existence where at worst only a creek existed before.

    I have served with many Sailors over the years, who just happened to be female. It was my pleasure, privilege, and honor to do so. And given the chance I would willingly do so again. I am willing to bet each and every one of them considered themselves to be Sailors first. They also did their level best to be on par with their fellow (male) shipmates as far as the physical fitness requirements went. The same goes for the majority of the officers appointed over me, who just happened to be female. Including on Commanding Officer.(And just so we cut this one off at the pass, I don’t give a rats ass about there being differences in the “Body Mass Index” for females vs males… physiology is what it is after all. And the whole damn thing is, as advanced by the military, a farce. So don’t even go there.)

    Now having said that. Based on how our government requires (or will require) our military to train, prepare, advance, and to some extent (and this is not the fault of the female service members) coddle them as compared to the males…no I do not want to see any branch of the American armed forces place women in either combat and or Special Forces/OPs units.

    Make it an even playing field … with no exceptions allowed for gender … then perhaps I will change my mind. But that hasn’t been the case in the past 30-40 years, and I don’t see them doing so now.

  12. 12
    LC Guy S growls and barks:

    Brendan, note my last two sentences above, I think that being said, and enforced, would put us on the same page.

  13. 13
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    On this, I concur.

  14. 14
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    LCGuyS, I cleaned up the italics code. If you want the whole post in italics, let me know and I can insert the html code marker at the right place.

  15. 15
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    The instant G.I. Jane kicks a door and attempts to muzzle strike a 240 lb roided out Syrian, he’s going to snatch her m4 out of her hand, grab her by the top of her plate carrier and her crotch, lift her over his head, and just before he snaps her in half she’ll be thinking: “Fuck… I wish I was a 200 lb SEAL.”

    And then she’ll die and tie up an entire squad.

  16. 16
    rickn8or growls and barks:

    BTDT with GuyS, (same place, same time, same female CO) and agree completely. Some of the finest Sailors I’ve worked with (and for) have been women, and like Guy, I’d gladly work for them again, because by the time period he’s talking about, all the Barbie Dolls had been weeded out.

    Despite the best efforts of some though, we cannot bend or suspend the laws of physics or the attitudes of 7th century savages just to allow us to be stylish.

    Israeli women soldiers are known and respected worldwide and I have nothing but respect for them, but your average American woman has not grown up surrounded on three of four borders by drooling savages that want to kill you in the most humiliating way possible. Throwing our daughters, wives, sisters against a culture where “if you ain’t a moslem man, you ain’t shit.” is not the way to introduce them to combat.

    ONE physical standard, meet it or not. Otherwise, as Clint said, “It’ll be a hell of a price to pay for being stylish.”

  17. 17
    Kristophr, LC growls and barks:

    I have no problem with women in combat provided they can meet the physical requirements.

    If a particular woman cannot hump a full kit the required number of miles, or pick up and carry another soldier, she has no business being an infantryman.

    If she can’t help set up and load a four-deuce, she has no business being mortar crew, etc, etc.

    The Air Force has started to use a centrifuge g-simulator to screen pilots … can’t pull the gs? No wings. period. A surprising number of women are qualifying.

    But that is the important bit. Set required standards, and stick to them.

  18. 18
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    The instant G.I. Jane kicks a door and attempts to muzzle strike a 240 lb roided out Syrian, he’s going to snatch her m4 out of her hand, grab her by the top of her plate carrier and her crotch, lift her over his head, and just before he snaps her in half she’ll be thinking: “Fuck… I wish I was a 200 lb SEAL.”

    And then she’ll die and tie up an entire squad.

    What a load of cobblers.

  19. 19
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    Rape. Yes. Lara Logan instantly comes to mind. Somewhere in my stack is the story, its about five years old, of the Afghan woman who after being repeatedly raped by several men had her breast crudely removed. The baby sitting at her feet was flung against the wall bashing it’s head in. This link http://tgates-of-hell.blogspot.com/p/gates-of-hellphotos.html no longer has the majority of pictures it had initially – mostly women, plenty of children. Still there are enough to get the point over. Acid – a well-loved tool.

    There is no uniform in the world that would protect a woman captured by these animals. I do not believe there is anything in the world that would protect the psyche of a male soldier upon discovering one of his own tortured, brutalized, disfigured as only they are more than willing to do.

    In my opinion – this BULLSHIT is just one more of the filthy tricks this administration is pulling. There are a couple of agendas wrapped up very nicely. One is to get men such as yourselves discussing whether or not a woman is capable. It’s a good discussion. I’ve no quarrels with it. But while you are distracted – the real agenda (IMO) is not being discussed, and that is – it is a tool to not only wreak havoc on the psyche of our men in the military when they are faced with any of the above scenarios, but possibly even more important, it is to demoralize the public back home. In particular the families of our military.

    The media and our administration keep much, much from the public eye. If you think the evil that posses them would not go so far as to allow a picture to slip of a female soldier beheaded with hundreds of men gleefully dancing around whatever implement they had it impaled upon – think again. And yeah, they would take some heat, but like every other God damn thing the outrage would eventually dissipate and they would get away with it. I will repeat my position. This is about demoralizing America, our military, their families.
    LadyRaven recently posted..“What Difference Does It Make” – to You?My Profile

  20. 20
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    LadyRaven one moment please:

    Life support system: check
    Thermal regulators:on
    Visor down.
    Oxygen is 14psi, nominal
    Cooling system: systems check nominal,
    Backup power source: on

    Thanks for waiting, flameproof suit and emeRgency cooling systems are now active.

    Question: Is it or or is it not the truth that woman are more in peril of rape and mutilation on their own home turf and in the US in general, than they will be IF they are captured?

    As a woman will be armed and armoured, she will be able to at least fight back in her own defence.

    If a woman wants to serve in ground combat and passes the same stringent tests as for her maile counterparts, why should her gender be the one thing that holds her back?

    A female fighter pilot or combat pilot that is shot down over enemy territory faces the same risks. Chopper pilots, nurses,female medics, doctors, supply staff..isnt anyone who serves in a combat area exposed to the same dangers.?

    A transport pilot who is shot down also has the same risks..should they then be prohibited from ANY branch of the servicer where they may be in peril?

    And given the thirdfourth world Muslim infested shithole nature of some of these barbarians, I also submit that men are as much at risk of rape as women are. I have no agenda, and I am the LAST person you would know who would support such a thing.

    The families know the dangers, God knows they do, and there has been loss and grief aplenty for thousands of families who have lost loved ones in service to their nation.

    The women of the IDF know this, their male colleagues also know it, and they accept this as a danger they know they will face but choose to go anyway, and their nation supports and encourages them.

    I ask this in all honesty, as one Rottie to another: why deny a citizen who steps up and volunteers , is then told that if she is captured she may be raped and beheaded, and KNOWING THOSE DANGERS, stares at the recruiter and says she knows and accepts those dangers, that right to serve?

    Is it a tool as you say..or is it a very real issue that is rising, as more and more young men die in combat, and the ones they left behind decide that they want to finish what their brothers or fathers began?

    Israel has been doing it for decades. Other nations have women in combat roles, including pilots.

    All I am trying to say is that those who wish to serve in combat, proven themselves in training, knowing and accepting the risks and dangers and the very real possibility that they may wind up in the same way as that incinerated soldier, should be allowed to.

    Otherwise Raven, it could be argued that the only reason they are denied is “because they are women”.

    Is it an agenda..or is it time for those who are willing to make that sacrifice to be given that right.

  21. 21
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Patrick L. Boucher | No women in combat units

    Recently, the Military Leadership Diversity Commission recommended the inclusion of women into combat units. With all due respect to the commission, they and their supporters are wrong.

    Based upon two misguided concepts and an extreme case of faulty logic, proponents of women in combat units are making naïve and dangerous assumptions.

    The first misconception involves understanding the difference between a combat unit and combat. Often those in favor of women in combat units like to point out that women already find themselves in combat, and therefore are combat soldiers. They equate one as being equivalent to the other. Nothing could be further from the truth. Any civilian off the street can in a matter of minutes be shown how to use a weapon, be put on the back of a truck and be sent off on a convoy that finds itself ambushed. The newly minted civilian/soldier could and no doubt would return fire. While that individual would certainly have been in combat, he/she is no more a combat soldier than a person who has never left the comfort of his living room.

    A combat soldier is an individual who goes out for days, weeks or months, actively seeking out, closing with and killing enemy soldiers, who are simultaneously trying to kill him. These soldiers often carry extremely heavy combat loads for extended distances in brutal terrain and must still have the strength and stamina to effectively meet and destroy enemy forces.

    Although technology does play a role in today’s Army, the fact is that in addition to the tasks above, our soldiers must also be able to engage an enemy — nearly always males — in hand-to-hand combat and kill their opponents. That skill and ability are imperative to the survival of the individual, the security of his fellow soldiers and the defense of our vital national interests. That is the difference in being a combat soldier, and simply being in a combat situation. It is absolutely not someone who while performing a job, inadvertently finds himself or herself returning fire to survive, i.e., Jessica Lynch.

    The second misconception centers on the notion that since women can now be on police departments, they can also be combat soldiers. Such notions have no merit whatsoever. The intent of the combat soldier’s job and of the police differ dramatically.

    The daily contacts of police officers are usually with people who have no intention of killing policemen. It is a rare case where a suspect’s sole intent is to murder a cop. In the majority of contacts, no violence occurs at all, and when it does, it usually involves the subject using violence in order to enhance the probability of his escape.

    Conversely, a combat soldier daily faces an opponent whose sole existence is based on killing him. Every contact with an enemy is designed to kill. Again, the ability to successfully execute the combat mission and protect the lives of the soldiers in the unit depends upon physical ability. This leads to the failure of logic in the “women in combat unit” policy.

    In 1972, Title IX became the law of the land. Very briefly: Title IX prohibits sex discrimination in education, including athletics. Title IX has been used to eradicate the difference in treatment between male and female athletes, their facilities and funding. In other words, our nation through Title IX has codified the difference in male and female physical abilities, and moved to ensure that just because of those differences women are not denied opportunity.

    I ask you: If we are willing to recognize those physical differences for the sake of a game, how can we morally cast those differences aside when it comes to a matter of life and death for our soldiers? How is it that failure to recognize a physical difference is discriminatory (in high-school and college sports), while recognizing that exact same difference later (in the military) is also discriminatory?

    The only environment where such contrary ideas could exist is one either completely devoid of logic, or where a social agenda trumps common sense. In short, there is a reason there are no female NFL players, there is a reason there is a WBA and an NBA. The list could go on.

    We owe our soldiers more than misguided policies based on misconceptions, faulty logic and social agendas. A failure to do so is not only naïve and dangerous, it is immoral.

    Patrick L. Boucher, who has served in the Marines and in the Indiana National Guard, is a War College graduate and veteran of the Vietnam and Afghan wars. He lives near Corydon, Ind., and was a 2005 Forum Fellow.

  22. 22
    FrankOK growls and barks:

    As many others posting here, I haven’t a problems with wimmins in a front line combat billet providing she is physically equal to her peers. Attitude is one thing – physical prowess is quite another. Fuck a whole bunch of chivalry – that’s not the issue for me. Mother Nature is a bitch and designed wimmins for quite a different purpose than men and in so doing made them typically smaller and weaker than their male counterparts.

    There is the issue, as referenced by others, of the attitude of the animals with which we are presently occupied and their treatment of wimmins. Personally, I’d much prefer to see a total withdrawl from a Middle East and a general nuking of the entire area designed to minimize them damage to Israel, the only civilized outpost in the area. I would, however, have much regret over the deaths of the defenseless camels in the area.

    There are areas where wimmins excel and should be placed but I really don’t believe front line combat is one of them.
    FrankOK recently posted..John McCain – RINO ExtraordinareMy Profile

  23. 23

    *sigh*

    Natasha and I are in agreement over this. If the females can pass the same tests by the same standards as the males and graduate without special dispensations from special forces schools, and are willing to do what it takes, then let them do it.

    I pity the dumbass sand monkey who tries to mess with Nat! Or me, for that matter.
    LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch recently posted..The Gun Grabbers’ War on WomenMy Profile

  24. 24
    LC Moriarty, Imperial Goatherd growls and barks:

    Not having served in the military, I’m content to sit this discussion out as those with experience debate it.

    However, having many friends who have either served or who are still serving (one currently in the capacity of an Army colonel), I’ve heard a good deal of opinion over the years on this subject.

    The IDF is frequently mentioned as a model for women serving in the combat arms. For the IDF, female combatants improves combat effectiveness; in a country surrounded and outnumbered by enemies with its back to the sea, every person who can manage a weapon is essential. It’s not clear how having women in combat enhances combat efficiency in the US military. If there is no critical shortage in the combat arms, what is the reason to include women?

    If the answer is political correctness and not combat effectiveness, then what is the true question being asked?

  25. 25
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    I’ll ask again.

    “how much is this going to cost, and how will it improve combat readyness?”

    the elephant in the room is the answer…

    “more than we’re currently spending” and “it will not improve combat readyness. -at best- it will cause combat readyness to remain the same.”

    So, we’re getting an unknown quantity of ‘Bang’, with the probability (based on previous experience so far) of it being -less- Bang, and we’re going to spend more money to get it.

    In what universe is this a good idea?

  26. 26
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    Snarl posits:

    so At the risk of crossing swords with the G.L.O.R’s here

    This is one GLOR who will not cross swords with you. I served in the Air Force, at the end of the ‘Nam era. Shortly before I enlisted, the military had dropped the restriction that pregnant women had to get out (I got married and pregnant while I was still in). I put in to go overseas, to Israel, in particular, but I was denied. It was a bit of a hotspot then. While I sort of agree with the premise that if women can pass the same tests as the men, and are willing, they should be allowed to go, I have to wonder if women are strong enough emotionally (never mind physically) to handle being captured and tortured. It’s enough to break some of the strongest men.

    Brendan, re: your comment about a woman at home being at greater risk of rape, I say you’re full of it. You don’t cite any statistics or facts, just a lot of BS. I would say it’s nearly 100% GUARANTEED that a military woman WOULD be raped were she captured by a towel-head. It’s the ultimate degradation.

  27. 27
    LC Old Dog growls and barks:

    LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch @ 23:
    Nicki, I am not worried about you and Natash as I have been around your attitudes to know that neither of you would take a swing at something you knew you could not handle!

    What I am worried about is the first high profile crusader who gets the standards lowered via public outcry and then finds her dumb ass in harms way and can’t cut it! Actually it will not be that Bitch I feel sorry for!! :em02:

    It will be the Squad or Platoon that has to place themselves in greater danger to make sure her stupid body is recovered or her bleeding ass drug back so she can’t be taken alive! Because in todays climate God Help them if they don’t! Yes todays troops will try to do that for anyone (No Man Left Behind) but, if it is a guy, no one is going to face a Court because they failed!!! :em08:
    LC Old Dog recently posted..And Some Days are Swallowed by LocustsMy Profile

  28. 28

    LC Old Dog says:

    What I am worried about is the first high profile crusader who gets the standards lowered via public outcry and then finds her dumb ass in harms way and can’t cut it! Actually it will not be that Bitch I feel sorry for!!

    I agree with you there. I’m unwilling to compromise the high standards units like the SEALs and the Rangers have set. If that’s what it will take to get women in combat… screw that! No way.

    And if a woman wants to be an 11B, great. Go to OSUT at Benning, and pass all your requirements by the same standards as the men. They’re frankly not that tough. I can do it.
    LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch recently posted..The Gun Grabbers’ War on WomenMy Profile

  29. 29
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    :em01:

    Hey, lets Draft wimmin so we can pay them less than men to help the budget!!/s

    :em05: :em05: :em05: :em05: :em05: :em05:

  30. 30
    Djach growls and barks:

    Put Panetta on the frontline for a 6-mo tour!

    “Those that can, will…
    Those that can’t, send someone else to die…!”

  31. 31
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Hmmmmm….. When it comes to this debate the Israeli model is always identified. But I wonder, if there wasn’t a demographic necessity would they as a “culture” voluntarily adopt this model? Is this their preference or necessity?

    It is my opinion that the “American” culture produces males that would be distracted by women in combat, or maybe not distracted, but certainly the presence would provide a “new” layer to consider or worry over in a already stress overload environment. This in the context of patrolling, door kicking, bunker busting, shit and piss in a hole, eating rations, dirty, change your skivvies once a week, operations. One poster wrote “fuck chivalry”. Easy to say, not so easy to undo years of training, training that begins almost in the cradle. Are there certain combat roles that women would excel? Certainly, sniping comes to mind most easily.

    But, (as Rouge inferred) what is the benefit? What is the percentage of women snake eaters out there? Nat and Nicki are certainly not the norm, but who are we catering too, and what is the return? So we can say we dont “discriminate”? Ultimately, I don’t see the benefit (as a whole) to our combat efficiency is enough to support the “change.”

    @ Tango9. You a Team guy?

  32. 32
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    Personally, I wouldn’t want to share a foxhole with anyone who was eager to charge into combat because they felt they had something to prove to the world. Those are the kind of shitbirds who will get themselves and other in their unit killed the quickest.

  33. 33

    Guess I swatted a hornets nest. :em05:

    By all means – do continue…. :em01:
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondant recently posted..Equal Opportuniy – Unequal RisksMy Profile

  34. 34
    0007 growls and barks:

    IIRC, the Israelis tried the female-directly-in-combat and pretty quickly found out that it didn’t/doesn’t work. The male soldiers tended to put themselves in danger while trying to protect the female soldiers. So yes, female Israeli soldiers carry rifles, but they are not exposed to “direct” combat anymore.

  35. 35
    bruce growls and barks:

    israel does not put women in combat roles because it was a disaster when they did it from 1948 to 1950 .men don’t like to see women blown to pieces and woman are just not strong enough to be a grunts which takes a tole on moral.i don’t believe any women could have passed jump school in 1965 and i know they could not have done in 1942.when you make a full gear jump you weigh between 350 to 400lbs and i don’t see women doing it.try humping a ruck that weighs over 125lbs 24/7 and climb a rock face straight up with no climbing gear when the temperature is 100 degrees and be read to fight to the death if you reach the top.would you ladies want to fix bayonets in the dark and charge because that is your only option?

  36. 36
    MikeC growls and barks:

    I am coming at this late & am going to repeat a little what others have said. There are an exceeding small percentage of women that can keep up with the men. Whether they have the desire to do so remains to be seen. The only way I can see this working is allowing women who wish to go into the combat arms sign up as men with no separate standards. If they can make it that way, fine, if not they can get bounced to a REMF spot or breaking big rocks into little ones.

    Sadly, such a policy is not the way this will be implemented. They will go into combat arms and they will dramatically increase the cost of fielding our army, and they will ultimately cause more of our men to die. The dangerous consequence of this is if Al Sharpton and his ilk get their way, they will reinstate the draft and, with this ‘new standard’, women will have no choice but to go into the combat arms. That will be truly tragic…
    MikeC recently posted..Union Goon Comeuppance, Jared and the Baseball ShooterMy Profile

  37. 37
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Brendan, re: your comment about a woman at home being at greater risk of rape, I say you’re full of it. You don’t cite any statistics or facts, just a lot of BS. I would say it’s nearly 100% GUARANTEED that a military woman WOULD be raped were she captured by a towel-head. It’s the ultimate degradation.

    Link

    Every 45 seconds someone in the United States is sexually assaulted (1).

    1 out of every 7 women currently in college has been raped (2), however, 9 out of 10 women raped on campus never tell anyone about the rape (3).

    1 in 10 men is raped in his lifetime (4), 1 in 7 of those victims will have been assaulted before the age of 18.
    More than 61.5% of rapes are never reported to law enforcement (5).

    Approximately 28% of rape victims are raped by their husbands, 35% by an acquaintance, and 17% by a relative other than spouse (6).

    74% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by assailants well known to the victim (7).

    A female child victim is 7 times more likely to be re-victimized as an adult (8).

    Nearly 6 out of 10 sexual assaults occur at the victim’s home or the home of a friend, relative, or neighbor (9).

    1 in 15 rape victims contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD) as a result of being raped (10).

    1 in 15 rape victims become pregnant as a result of being raped (11).

    The United States has the world’s highest rape rate of all countries that publish such data- 13 times higher than England and more than 20 times higher than Japan (12).

    An American woman is 10 times more likely to be raped than to die in a car crash (13).

    61% of rape victims are females under the age of 18 (14).

    Contrary to common belief that violent crime rates are notably lower in rural areas, a recent analysis of location data collected for the 1999 National Women’s Study found that 10.1% of women living in rural areas had experienced a completed rape as compared to 13.6% of women living in urban and suburban communities—hardly a notably lower rate.

    Want me to start on the number of female soldiers sexually assaulted by their brother soldiers in the military?

    *sigh*

    The point I was trying to (and probably didnt phrase properly) is that a woman is in greater peril of being raped in her home nation than she would be in combat. You said its gauranteed, it may very well be, they could just as easily have a limb blown off as well.

    You tell them that when they sign up, they know the dangers, and they want to go anyway. What say you then?

    The greatest number of women being raped in war have been from soldiers raping civilian women.

    Fine, I’ll leave it there.

    Mike: The day that Sharpton gets his way, the day that the draft is reinstated in the US, will be a cold day in hell.

    Will never happen.

    I’m out of this thread.

  38. 38
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    LC TerribleTroy says:

    @ Tango9. You a Team guy?

    Oh, lordie no. I’d drown in anything over knee deep water. :em06:

  39. 39
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LCBrendan @ #:

    “With all respect, maybe the Israeli model is the one that proves women are viable in combat, and that maybe the old traditions and values have passed their use by date.”

    Lyudmila Pavlichenko and 2,000 other Red Army snipers proved it earlier. They may not be ideal line infantry, but if you need people in the field, it can work in some aspects.

  40. 40
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    What a load of cobblers.

    Ok. Well. We’ll see, won’t we?

  41. 41
    watchyerlane growls and barks:

    I was a 11B assigned to D Co. 3/187 Inf 101st Airborne Division from 1984-1988. During that time, I saw first hand how women are NOT ready for combat. The only place on Campbell where women could play infantry was in Air Assault School. Women while having the mental skills to pass Air Assault School they washed out in either Zero Day or on the last day with the 12 mile road march with full ruck and weapon. Very few made the time cut-off and were washed out.
    That roadmarch was one morning after sleeping in a warm bed and coming to class after a warm meal in the Chow Hall. Imagine 21 days outside the wire, cold MRE’s (if you even have any left) and sleeping under a poncho liner (if you even have that). Now imagine after that doing the equivalent to the Air Assault School final roadmarch for 21 consecutive days along with the stress that goes along with close quarter combat.
    Nope, this is social science on steroids.
    We can do better than this.

  42. 42
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    Missus Tango is a retired mustang captain. She did 12 enlisted, 10 more as an officer. She’s tough as nails (I avoid her wrath like one avoids bear traps and mine fields). Her troops universally called her ” the evil bitch” and would all follow her to hell and volunteer to take point.

    And she’ll be the first one in line to tell you this is not a good idea.

  43. 43
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    watchyerlane says:

    I was a 11B assigned to D Co. 3/187 Inf 101st Airborne Division from 1984-1988. .

    I know some 18B’s and D’s (god I love my medics). And wouldn’t you know it one 18B turned out to be a hippie. What are the odds? All 5th group and 1 worthless ass from 19th.

    Carl Gustav does not equal love and peace, but lesson learned: you never know.

  44. 44

    Sad news to report, in case anyone has missed it. Our own EFA has passed away.

    http://www.hookersandbooze.com/2013/03/sad-news-2/

    I’m still in tears.
    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. recently posted..Sad NewsMy Profile

  45. 45
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. says:

    Sad news to report, in case anyone has missed it. Our own EFA has passed away.
    http://www.hookersandbooze.com/2013/03/sad-news-2/
    I’m still in tears.
    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. recently posted..Sad News

    Having not been here long, I didn’t know him. That said, the loved and lost are forever saved in a safe place within our hearts. I can’t share in your sorrow, but I know what it means, and how it hurts. Go easy.

  46. 46
    Djach growls and barks:

    From the blog Bring the heat, Bring the Stupid

    General Barry McCaffery: Lauds “Marines Aversion to B.S.” On Women In Infantry

    http://xbradtc.com/2013/03/19/general-barry-mccaffrey-lauds-marines-aversion-to-bs-on-women-in-infantry/

    “The argument for women at rifle battalion team level is unsound. Makes as much sense as mandating women on all-male professional contact sports teams.”

    It’s a good article, so I thought I’d share.

  47. 47

    Tango9 @ #:

    Thanks. I’ve been AWOL from here mostly due to managing six other blogs and being an ROTC mom, but have to get back into the groove of things. I’m just heartbroken that this is the reason that brought me back :(
    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. recently posted..Sad NewsMy Profile

  48. 48
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. says:

    Tango9 @ #:
    Thanks. I’ve been AWOL from here mostly due to managing six other blogs and being an ROTC mom, but have to get back into the groove of things. I’m just heartbroken that this is the reason that brought me back
    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. recently posted..Sad News

    Well, you’re among kindred spirits. We’ve all lost. A lot. A whole brigade of a lot.

    There’s nothing to ease the pain, there are no words to take it away, and you wouldn’t want to hear them if there were because… well… that part goes unspoken. It’s why we just fill a glass of Guinness and place it on the bar and no one gets to touch it.

    Because.

  49. 49

    Tango9 says:

    It’s why we just fill a glass of Guinness and place it on the bar and no one gets to touch it.

    Indeed, but sadly, I gave up alcohol for Lent :D

    I am sure EFA would be the very first to say “Fuck it, Aggie!! Bottoms up!”
    LC Aggie Sith, a goddess, only different, G.G.O.R. recently posted..Sad NewsMy Profile

  50. 50
    bruce growls and barks:

    i was an 11b3p and served in the 2/502 of the 101st airborne in viet nam from 1967 to 1969.there is no way that any woman could hump the boonies.to say nothing of the creepy crawlies like leaches try to crawl up any orifice it can get into or the army sends a box of tiger shit home because that is all that is left of you.i have night mares because of the things i have done is that what we want for our woman who survive?if you want to correct my grammar go right a head i don’t care.

  51. 51
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    watchyerlane @ #41:
    Hey Rakkasans. I was in B 3/320 FA from 87 to 88 before being shipped to Germany. In our Air Assault class only one female made it past Zero day and just barely passed the road march, and she came fresh from Ft. Bragg.

    I got a kick out of her accidentally sounding off with “Airborne!” once and exactly once. :em05:

  52. 52
    LC Draco growls and barks:

    I also am a Rakkassan…1/187.

    BTW…Unless I missed a post, in Israel, females in combat units only fight in DEFENSIVE operations. Not offensive. I worked with some when I was in 10th Group and they are GREAT soldiers and I would fight beside them. But even I would, in the back of my mind, would try to protect them in lieu of my main mission. (But then again, I AM a red blooded American male!)

    And I can tell you from experience, there is not a female that could graduate Ranger School….due to hygiene issues, weight hauling requirements, and the culture. Even I would assign the Pig (M-60 or 240B) to the female to prove the point that she couldn’t carry that bad boy over a 15 KM move.

    Call me an ass, but I have BTDT and I know what the physical requirements take for combat units IN combat.
    LC Draco recently posted..VA Will Use ‘Preliminary Findings’ To Reduce Verification DenialsMy Profile

  53. 53
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    bruce says:

    i was an 11b3p and served in the 2/502 of the 101st airborne in viet nam from 1967 to 1969.there is no way that any woman could hump the boonies.to say nothing of the creepy crawlies like leaches try to crawl up any orifice it can get into or the army sends a box of tiger shit home because that is all that is left of you.i have night mares because of the things i have done is that what we want for our woman who survive?if you want to correct my grammar go right a head i don’t care.

    Bruce, I’m not the kind of guy that says “thanks for your service.” In fact, I fucking hate those words. But airborne infantry 2/502 gets a nod of respect. I was born between your tours. My daddy was a Marine and in country then. He managed to get home on leave and knock up my mom (hence, I exist).

  54. 54
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    I agree 150%.

    Man’s mission in this world is to protect and provide for the women and children. That’s what y’all are for!

    And we love you for it.

    And we pray that, when you go into battle on our behalf, God will stretch his protective arm over you, and grant you victory against our enemies.

  55. 55
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    Women can shoot, ride, pilot aircraft, etc.

    But this push by the LEFT is about something else. It’s about breaking the primordial MALE-FEMALE BOND.

    In other words; they don’t WANT men to feel chivalrous toward women any more. They don’t WANT women to look to their men for protection. Quite apart from the practicality of it all, THIS is what’s at the core of their campaign.

    “Fuck chivalry,” indeed! they would be delighted to hear you say this.

  56. 56
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    Tallulah says:

    Women can shoot, ride, pilot aircraft, etc.
    But this push by the LEFT is about something else. It’s about breaking the primordial MALE-FEMALE BOND.
    In other words; they don’t WANT men to feel chivalrous toward women any more. They don’t WANT women to look to their men for protection. Quite apart from the practicality of it all, THIS is what’s at the core of their campaign.
    “Fuck chivalry,” indeed! they would be delighted to hear you say this.

    but can you pillage? It’s a necessary skillset and I don’t believe the Univ of Pheonix offers an online course: it’s mostly just OJT. Pillaging 101 is mandatory for all men.

    I mean there’s also Protecting the Innocent 200 and BBQing 112… it’s quite a bit to learn.