Rotties: whats your call

Article as follows

Shelly Frey, 27, was shot and killed by an off-duty sheriff’s deputy at a Houston, TX., Walmart. The deputy was suspicious of Frey, saying he thought she was stealing from the store, reports UK Daily Mail. Harris County Sheriff’s deputies said that Shelly Frey, Tisa Andrews and Yolanda Craig were shoplifting when they were stopped by Louis Campbell, a 26-year veteran of the force, who is employed as a security guard at Walmart.

Campbell said that the women dashed to their car, and when he went to open their car door, they drove away. Campbell then thought it was his duty to stop the perpetrators so he fired the deadly shot into the car which hit Frey in the neck. Security at the store noticed the three women putting items into their purses and notified Campbell, who was working an extra job that night.

The three shoplifters tried to pay for some small items to serve as a cover for the ones they planned to steal.Campbell opened Frey’s car door and told her to get out, after he chased her and the other two women to the car, but she refused, said officials.Andrews started to drive away while the deputy was standing between the open door and the driver’s seat. “She threw it in reverse and tried to run over the deputy,” said Harris County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Deputy Thomas Gilliland.

Gilliland said, “He confronted the suspects at exit of the store before they left. One female wouldn’t stop, struck the deputy with her purse, ran off.” He added, “I think it knocked him off balance and, in fear of his life and being ran over, he discharged his weapon at that point.”Officials said that there were two small children in the vehicle at the time of the incident, although they were not Frey’s, who is a mother of two.

“He was clearly marked in uniform as a Harris County deputy. And identified himself as the suspects were leaving the establishment,” said Gilliland regarding Campbell. Even with Frey wounded, the women still fled, but they stopped at The Worthington at the Beltway apartments in the 1300 block of Greens Parkway. Frey was pronounced dead at the scene when paramedics arrived.

“Shelly was the perfect mom, perfect friend, perfect daughter,” said her father, Shelton Frey.“Why couldn’t you just shoot the tire, shoot the window?” said her mother Sharon Wilkerson. “Was it that serious?”Sharon said that even if Frey did shoplift, she didn’t deserve to die. She is now concerned for Frey’s children.Andrews and Craig have both been charged with shoplifting. A small price to pay when their friend was shot to death.

As for deputy Campbell, he is on three days paid leave for standard protocol. The Harris County Sheriff’s Homicide Unit, Office of the Inspector General and the Harris County District Attorney’s Office will investigate this horrific incident. The case will go in front of a grand jury.

Firstly: I am making no excuses for the perps. They tried to run over a cop.

My questions are:

1. Given that the cop was aware there were children in the car,

2. Given that he fired at a car that was receding from him and,

3. He didnt hit the driver, he shot and killed the passenger

As usual in these cases, the reports conflict, one says he was dragged then he fired, another says he fired after the car drove off.

I do not claim to be LEO nor have I ever been in this situation. I am also aware that in the past , staff have been told not to follow shoplifters, so how does an off duty cop at a WalMart operate?

Under the same Rules of Engagement as a normal police duty shift?

IF he fired when the car was receding, should he have, since he would be firing through a rear window and his target picture would have been obscured?

I am making no excuses nor justification, nor judgement in any way, I am simply interested in how this would handle as a shoot / dont shoot scenario.

Thanks.

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barrett9950
Member
barrett9950

From what I read…he went way over the top with that.

angrywebmaster
Member

I’m not a police officer, but this looks unjustified. Hit with a purse? The only reason I can think of to shoot was they were trying to run him down and I don’t see this indicated in the story.

At first glance, it looks like another LAPD v Dorner situation where they were shooting at anything that moved.

We need more data, but if this was not a justified shooting, this clown belongs in a jail cell.

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

A crime is a crime. Good riddance.

single stack
Member
single stack

It appears that the deputy fucked up. Based on the (incomplete) information in the story I don’t believe he was justified in shooting at all. The deputy had too many other options for shooting into the car to be justified. These were thieves, not killers on a violent rampage. A few baubles from Walmart aren’t worth someone’s life. As a 26 year veteran LEO he should have known better than to try to apprehend 3 people who had demonstrated that they were going to resist and run by himself. He should have made the necessary observations (descriptions, vehicle tag no.,… Read more »

NR Pax
Member
NR Pax

We don’t have all the facts, but based on what has been posted I would say he should not have shot at the car. His life was apparently not in immediate danger and the vehicle was leaving the scene.

To answer your question about him acting as a security guard and his rules: They would be the same as any other security guard: Don’t pursue outside the store, take down all relevant information and call the cops.

LC SecondMouse
Member

I hate situations like this one. Worse, this is my town. I know some of the LEOs here. My thoughts: It certainly seems like the deputy made several mistakes, but I have questions. I would like to know when he drew his weapon. I am also concerned that in the heat of the moment, he was unwilling to realize that he alone was not going to be able to make an arrest. At that moment, he needs to be able to dispassionately change his tactics. Firing into a moving vehicle is serious business, and the test for doing so is… Read more »

MikeC
Member

Whether he did the ‘right thing’, the first question to answer is did he do a legal thing. I’m no lawyer (spit), but I think he did. Consider he was in Texas. From here It is noted: Deadly force is permissible under the law when a person is attempting to defend himself from deadly force of an attacker in his home, vehicle or place of employment, or against attackers who are committing crimes of kidnapping, murder, sexual assault or robbery They were clearly commiting at least robbery, but also attempted murder since they tired to run over him. It is… Read more »

LC Spare Parts
Member
LC Spare Parts

Armed robbery, yeah. Shoplifting, nah. He should have copied the plate, and or put out a broadcast asap.

idahobob
Member
idahobob

Shooting over shoplifting? :em03:

My God, what a fucking idiot cop……….wait a minute, most cops are idiots. :em05:

Bob
III

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

Technically legal, but massively stupid. In this modern world, law enforcement has access to so much information about you, it’s painfully easy for them to pick and choose when, where, and how they arrest you. You’ve got the car description, and the plate. Have a cruiser waiting for them when they get home. Problem solved, nobody gets shot. I also call into question the ‘attempted to run him over’. most people in parking lots park nose in. they would -have- to back up to pull out. The Blue Tribe are notorious for lying about situations like this. They even have… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

also -Allegedly- tried to run the deputy over. We have no way of knowing, at this time, if the deceased actually did try to run him over, or if he’s just trying to cover his ass.

single stack
Member
single stack

They were clearly commiting at least robbery, but also attempted murder since they tired to run over him. They were shoplifting, not committing robbery. There’s a very big difference. Did the driver try to kill him by running over him, or did she bump him in her haste to make her escape? Again, there’s a very big difference. but I can only assume that anyone who has to pass the battery of test and range time to be a sworn officer would only shoot if he had a clear shot. Again, that is incidental as I think it was a… Read more »

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

FTA <<<<<<Officer Campbell opened Frey’s car door and told her to get out, after he chased her and the other two women to the car, but she refused, said officials. Andrews started to drive away while the deputy was standing between the open door and the driver’s seat. “She threw it in reverse and tried to run over the deputy,” said Harris County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Deputy Thomas Gilliland. Gilliland said, “He confronted the suspects at exit of the store before they left. One female wouldn’t stop, struck the deputy with her purse, ran off.” He added, “I think it… Read more »

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

According to Harris County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Deputy Thomas Gilliland, the off-duty cop only shot the suspected Walmart shoplifter to death when he believed the driver intended on running him down in an attempt to abscond with the alleged stolen merchandise: “She threw it in reverse and tried to run over the deputy … He confronted the suspects at exit of the store before they left. One female wouldn’t stop, struck the deputy with her purse, ran off … I think it knocked him off balance and, in fear of his life and being ran over, he discharged his weapon… Read more »

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery
Member

“Shelly was the perfect mom, perfect friend, perfect daughter,” said her father, Shelton Frey.

and you were definitely a perfect father right? momma takes the kiddies for a little crime spree with her girlfriends, just a little quality time…….I wonder where daddy was? or if her kids even KNOW who daddy is.

not enough details to make a judgement in this one. But just one more example of how our society is imploding

Orion
Member

I don’t think that backing up with someone standing by the door is ‘trying to run them over’

Trying to knock them down? Yes.

But run them over? No.

For all the reasons listed above, this was a very, very bad shoot and the Cop needs to be prosecuted for it.

Orion

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Gladiator says: FTA <<<<<>>>>>> Rightous shoot Legal? yes. Righteous? oh fuck no. For starters, just to make things even -worse- than I thought, he didn’t even hit the ‘threat’. He shot the fucking passenger, who had absolutely no control over the vehicle. Yeah, that was a fucking -great- idea. This was fucking -stupid-. Take some time, and dig up any surveys on how the general populace feels about law enforcement. I think you’ll find that ‘civilian support of law enforcement’ is at it’s lowest recorded point in the history of this nation. Of course, it might help if they… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

Seriously, what kind of effort would it have taken to back off, take a deep breath, and -call in the goddamn plate number-?

Throw ‘resisting arrest’ and ‘assaulting an officer’ onto the pile, and throw her ass in jail, after due process.

passionate conservative
Member

Houston Cops all think that they are in Lethal Weapon, but all they do is come across like Reno 911.

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

There is no magical transformation that takes place when you complete the training and take to oath to serve in law enforcement that makes you immune to your emotions. The majority of these folks are good and decent people who are sometimes placed in difficult or impossible situations, and we expect them to be as calm and cool in the moment as we are when we read about them later. As a society, we do not have enough empathy for the people who serve and protect, which makes their jobs all the more difficult and continues to erode the public… Read more »

noahquackenbush
Member
noahquackenbush

Chicago LEO officer here.I work the west side, and have had the pleasure of eliminating my share of “threats”.I have enjoyed reading all of the comments on this thread. The only thing they have in common is that no one was on scene. It sure is fun to Monday morning quarterback, isn’t it? To LCD Roguetec, a few responses. How many police officers do jail time? Almost all of them. Have a chat with Bill Cozzi, who did five years in a federal penitentiary for slapping a drunk who was causing a disturbance at a hospital. The only people who… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

You’ll pardon me if I find your statements hard to believe, given the information I have be able to find.

LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent
Member

Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:16

BING BING BING …We have a winner.

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

while I”m thinking about it. “But don’t fret! The police, especially in Shitcago, have become a reactive force. Make a traffic stop? Might get sued. Find a named offender? Get a warrant mam. Most, not all, of the rank and file, at least in Chicago, spend most of their tour reading, watching movies, or driving around aimlessly in circles. (See the new VRI initiative). You wanna pay me for taking reports and putting up crime scene tap? Deal. In the end, the citizens get the police they want….remember,19P clears them all!” If things have reached the point where the populace… Read more »

Fa Cube Itches
Member
Fa Cube Itches

LC Gladiator @ #:

A crime is a crime. Good riddance.

So we should make jaywalking subject to summary execution, then?

single stack
Member
single stack

Fa Cube Itches @ #: 26

It often seems that in the paranoid police state that our society has become many have lost sight of one of the cornerstones of justice:

“The punishment should fit the crime”

Fa Cube Itches
Member
Fa Cube Itches

From the story: “Campbell then thought it was his duty to stop the perpetrators so he fired the deadly shot into the car which hit Frey in the neck” (emphasis mine). There’s the problem right there – looks like the parameters of his job weren’t clearly defined, he wasn’t trained, and his understanding of the law is for shit: (1) he didn’t know what his exact responsibilities were with respect to potential shoplifters; (2) there was no clear delineation on (and he had utterly no understanding of) what level of force he was allowed to employ with respect to No.… Read more »

Fa Cube Itches
Member
Fa Cube Itches

MikeC @ #:

They were clearly commiting at least robbery

No, they were committing larceny. Robbery involves the use/threatened use of real (or at least apparent) force; hence, it is regarded as a more serious crime.

bruce
Member
bruce

my introduction to cops happened when i was in grade school because my mom got a cop demoted.this cop would read the obituaries than stop widows and threaten them with arrest if they did not put out.one of the woman was a neighbor who told my mom who called our senator who called the governor, who called the chief of police,who demoted said cop to crossing guard when he should have been fired.the bastard would hassle my brother and i because we went home where he was a crossing guard.one day he was slapping my brother around so i went… Read more »

LC PrimEviL
Member

I would hate to be a juror on a case like this. Having been on Jury in the past, all one has to go on
are eyewitless ‘testabalony’, and official ‘testalying’. It’s not even the old ‘who’s lying now’ game.
It’s more on the order of trying to figure out who’s lying the most now.

angrywebmaster
Member

LC/IB PrimEviL @ #:

I would hate to be a juror on a case like this.

I suspect there were a few security cameras in the area. If there were and they got a good picture, this will be sorted out in no time, especially if they all seem to have suffered “Malfunctions” at the time of the incident.

sablegsd
Member
sablegsd

He was a security donk. Not there as a cop. He sure behaved like a cop though. Unjustified shooting. Kind of like those idiots shooting into trucks. Those are the kind coming for your guns.

sablegsd
Member
sablegsd

bruce @ #:

A damned shame your momma never taught you some punctuation.

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

When you stop supporting your Police, you invite ANARCHY. This cop was within his rights, and the perp had numerous priors. TOO BAD

Special Ed
Member
Special Ed

Sorry, didn’t yet read the other comments. But, 22 years in LE.

FUCK NO, YOU DON”T SHOOT!

You are no longer in imminent danger. The perps are not a danger to you, themselves, or others. The perps have not committed a capital crime. There are innocent bystanders in the immediate proximity of your line of fire.

FUCK NO, YOU DON’T SHOOT!

HempRopeAndStreetlight
Member
HempRopeAndStreetlight

Overreaction. Run the plate, have a B&W waiting at their house. Watch the security video, nail them for petty theft, resisting arrest, assaulting an officer, child endangerment, reckless endangerment, problem solved.

Was zero excuse for gun play there. Officer Triggerhappy should loose his immunity, his career, and his freedom for this.

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Gladiator says: When you stop supporting your Police, you invite ANARCHY. This cop was within his rights, and the perp had numerous priors. TOO BAD given what I’ve seen from law enforcement, anarchy might be an improvement. Also, seriously, what the fuck is wrong with your brain? Where do you draw the line? How badly do the police have to misbehave before you say ‘hey, wait a second, this isn’t right?’ For a lot of people, it’s not the misconduct that burns so much as the fact that, from all external appearances, the vast majority of those bastards get… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

here’s a prime example…

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/06/17212442-man-left-in-solitary-confinement-for-2-years-gets-155-million-settlement?lite

They misplaced this dude for TWO YEARS. The maltreatment he suffered has effectively given him a death sentance.

the taxpayers are on the hook for millions.

the police, the DA’s office, the coffectional facility? Buisiness as usual, nobody’s getting fired.

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

“Williams, the Dona Ana County public information officer, said no jail personnel have been fired over Slevin’s treatment. ” And… “But for Coyte, Slevin’s attorney, there’s still one more change that needs to be made: Dona Ana County Jail’s warden. “If you were in the trial and heard what the person who ran the facility said, you would be appalled,” Coyte said. “I get lots of people [inmates] calling from that jail asking for help. Am I pleased that they’ve spent more money in the jail? Absolutely. I’m pleased that Mr. Slevin’s case has made a difference in the jail.… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LCBrendan says:

I read this as well.
What kind of jail refuses a prisoner medical care? No lawyer, no doctors, refused a dentist…why isnt that warden and the staff all under arrest?

That’s why us peasantry don’t like cops anymore. they act like an invading army, treat people like shit, violate the law with impunity, and are rarely punished.

Oh, and we get to pony up for the payouts to cover their mis-deeds, as well.

Emperor Misha I
Admin

Oh dear, and how I hate Monday Morning Quarterbacking as you always have incomplete information in cases like these and have to go with what little you have and couple it with your built-in bullshit filter to get anywhere. So therefore, with that in mind and for what it’s worth, which isn’t a whole fucking lot, here’s my two cents: First off, I couldn’t care less of a shit about the shooter being LE and the shootee being a skanky ho. That’s immaterial here. The question before us is: Was this proper use of lethal force? No, it wasn’t. And,… Read more »

Pengor
Member

Reading between the lines I would say it was an accidental shooting. He probably had his weapon out and his finger on the trigger. It adds up: He had the knowledge and experience to know better than to shoot. He shot the wrong person. He was bumped just before he fired. An accidental shooting would have at least got him fired. Change the story a bit and it is a legal shoot.

LC Ogrrre - Imperial Heartless Bastard
Member

This whole discussion would not be taking place had the stupid bitch: 1) not been stealing in the first place, 2) not ignored the order to stop in the second place. I doubt seriously that this was the first time the thieving cunt had been shoplifting. Did she deserve to die? I’m still out on that. Shoplifters steal billions of dollars of merchandise in this country each year. That cost to the merchants is added on to the cost we who are honest pay for the goods we buy. So, in essence, that bitch was stealing from everyone. Would I… Read more »

Pengor
Member

Police don’t get to make the call if some douche lives or dies. If they do we are no longer in free society. Judge Dread was an interesting comic book, but I would not want to live in that society. Sometimes the scumbag buys the ticket to hell and the officer has to give them the ride. This does not sound like that. What if the crime was having an illegal 30 round magazine? In New York that is a crime that is punished harsher than rape.

Imperial Grammar Hun, G.L.O.R
Member

LC Roguetek says:

One might wonder how things got that way.

It’s Chicago: I’d say, Mayor Richard Daley, Mayor Daley, jr., Rahm Emanuel, Barack Obama, unions, the “machine.”

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

LC Roguetek says:
One might wonder how things got that way.
It’s Chicago: I’d say, Mayor Richard Daley, Mayor Daley, jr., Rahm Emanuel, Barack Obama, unions, the “machine.”

There’s a lovely line in the movie ‘Gross Point Blank’ where the character Martin Blank comments on his career as an assassin for hire.

” If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there. ”

If you’re the police, and the people you’re policing hate your guts, chances are you had a solid hand in the current status quo.

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

Something else that just wandered through my sleep deprived brain. A number of people on this blog, and in other places, comment about having friends in the police force, and how they like their friends, and they’ve never had any trouble with law enforcement, and their friends would never do anything like what some police have been accused of in other places. Of course your friends are going to treat you well, they’re your friends. And in a community as tight knit as the blue tribe, having the mark of the blue tribe on you (sgt so-and-so is my friend)… Read more »

MikeC
Member

Fa Cube Itches @ #: Uh yep – I did mention i’m not a (spit) lawyer right? Howsomever, I do believe legally a weapon can be anything – a frisbee, a pen, a purse… The legal application of force by the police versus a private citizen at his place of employment are two different things. Hello castle doctrine… in Texas. I am guessing it’s a moot point. The guy will never be a cop anywhere again, and Walmart will settle out of court with the vulnerable’s family for an undisclosed huge settlement. That right there is why the management of… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

I’ll bet you fifty bucks, that said officer will still have his job when the dust settles.

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

LC Roguetek says:

I’ll bet you fifty bucks, that said officer will still have his job when the dust settles.

As he deserves. The scumbag died ,the Cop lived. Justice was served. Rogue must think theft is ok……………..like most lowlifes

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

And before I get flamed. I VERY generously contributed to Roguetek and his wife when they were in need………………………………obviously he forgets with his attacks on me….

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

LC Roguetek says:

They misplaced this dude for TWO YEARS. The maltreatment he suffered has effectively given him a death sentance.

the taxpayers are on the hook for millions.

the police, the DA’s office, the coffectional facility? Buisiness as usual, nobody’s getting fired.

You drunk dude?? sentance is sentence,coffectional is correctional,buisiness is business……………………………step away from the computer and chill………..

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Gladiator says: And before I get flamed. I VERY generously contributed to Roguetek and his wife when they were in need………………………………obviously he forgets with his attacks on me…. You’re right, I don’t remember it. Tell you what, name a dollar amount, and I’ll have a money order to you by the end of the month. No, I don’t know where I’ll find the money, but I’ll -find- it. The best argument you can come up with is that I should agree with you, because you gave me charity? Seriously, that’s some pretty underhanded shit. And before you kick the… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Gladiator says:

LC Roguetek says:
I’ll bet you fifty bucks, that said officer will still have his job when the dust settles.
As he deserves. The scumbag died ,the Cop lived. Justice was served. Rogue must think theft is ok……………..like most lowlifes

Ah, so I’m a lowlife because I believe in accountability, due process, and rule of law, as opposed to panicked semi-random gunfire in wal-mart parking lots.

If that’s your definition of ‘lowlife’, then hell yes, I’m a lowlife.

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Gladiator says: LC Roguetek says: They misplaced this dude for TWO YEARS. The maltreatment he suffered has effectively given him a death sentance. the taxpayers are on the hook for millions. the police, the DA’s office, the coffectional facility? Buisiness as usual, nobody’s getting fired. You drunk dude?? sentance is sentence,coffectional is correctional,buisiness is business……………………………step away from the computer and chill……….. Before you open your piehole, genius, you might want to Read The Fine Article -. He was never charged in a court of law. He was never tried. He was never convicted. They shoved him in solitary, and… Read more »

Igor, Imperial Booby
Member
Igor, Imperial Booby

Late to the party. Again. Well, after having read all the sound and fury, opinion, and even some poo flinging, I have to put in my pfennig’s worth. Obligatory disclaimer: I wasn’t there. I most certainly don’t have all the evidence. Obligatory disclaimer: I’ve had experience with good cops, I’ve had experience with bad cops. That’s just Life. Now, personally, I think the “officer” was an idiot. I wouldn’t trust him to wipe his butt properly even with full adult supervision and full instructions and a test given. You don’t: a) put yourself in the way of the vehicle. You… Read more »

LC LOBO
Member

LC Gladiator says:

And before I get flamed. I VERY generously contributed to Roguetek and his wife when they were in need………………………………obviously he forgets with his attacks on me….

Well, don’t that make you fucking special. Not.
This isn’t DC, you cannot buy loyalty. And as he said, name the dollar amount fuckhead. Moreso if you “helped” with me getting back to see my Mom before she passed.

Orion
Member

I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment.

He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…”

Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D

Orion

LC MuscleDaddy
Member

Later than most this time, so I’m going to keep it simple:

Moving (receding) vehicle, kids in the car, Killed the passenger because he was in-fear-of-his-life from being run-over?

Be Sure of Your Target and Backstop.

Just on the basis of that alone…

– MD

Emperor Misha I
Admin

Orion says: I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment. He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…” Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D And I think you’re right, I’ve known Glad for a long time, but I also understand why Rogue read it… Read more »

Tango9
Member
Tango9

I hate to roll in late on this one and drop a turd in the punch bowl. But none of us were there. You can’t honestly say what you would or wouldn’t have done as that LE unless you were wearing his spidey undies that day.

Tango9
Member
Tango9

LCBrendan says: You do not EVER fire unless you are 100% sure you will hit what you are aiming for. A corollary is someone firing through a closed door and killing a neighbour. Put steel on target and on the target alone or wear the consequences. It’s rarely that simple. And no, that’s not a good corollary. Firing blindly through the door is pure negligence. Firing at a moving target while under duress with the target in sight is completely different. You check background, call on your training, but your target (and therefore background) moves. No one stands still while… Read more »

Bones
Member
Bones

Gawd, I so wanted to not comment on this, but here goes…. the “officer” was a fucking security guard for walmart. He should have been fired on the spot for moon-lighting in his “magic costume” (first offence). Wally-world requires their “security” to follow, get a licence plate and call the police. Did he do this or want to go all rambo on these wastes of protoplasm? Well, the fact one of them is dead means he did not follow wally-world security guard guidelines (opens them up to a whole world of litigation by little miss perfects offspring [or brood]). If… Read more »

Imperial Grammar Hun, G.L.O.R
Member

I don’t normally like to hijack a thread, but this is an important OT, and since this is the most active thread:

Our beloved Aussie, EFA, was found dead in his home on Friday. According to his Facebook page, autopsy results were pending. They were speculating on choking or a heart attack. He was found by a friend who had stopped in for a visit. RIP, Aussie…

watchyerlane
Member
watchyerlane

I know folks hate the term “slippery slope” but I am sort of seeing that here. When we can justify shooting some skank because she ran off with a few thongs from Wally-World, how far do we have to go before LE can justify shooting militia members for speaking out in support of the Constitution. Before you flame me, think about 10, 15 or 20 years ago. Do you remember ever hearing shoplifters getting lit up? It is just a continued slide in the disrespect for humanity. Officer Crunchy should have kept his sidearm holstered and instead called his buddies… Read more »

Tango9
Member
Tango9

Bones says: Gawd, I so wanted to not comment on this, but here goes…. the “officer” was a fucking security guard for walmart. He should have been fired on the spot for moon-lighting in his “magic costume” (first offence). Wally-world requires their “security” to follow, get a licence plate and call the police. Did he do this or want to go all rambo on these wastes of protoplasm? Well, the fact one of them is dead means he did not follow wally-world security guard guidelines (opens them up to a whole world of litigation by little miss perfects offspring [or… Read more »

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

LC Roguetek says: The best argument you can come up with is that I should agree with you, because you gave me charity? Seriously, that’s some pretty underhanded shit. No Rogue, I dont want my donation back. BUT I WOULD appreciate it that when we disagree (and we do) that you attack my arguments and NOT me personally! (ie:”what the fuck is wrong with your brain? “, “You sound just like DJ, only stupider.”, “And, for the record, I hope you wind up on the receiving end of the same level of decision making you so wildly approve of.”) I… Read more »

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

Orion says:

I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment.

He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…”

Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D

Orion

Thank you Orion. Put much better than I did. Glad somebody understands

Lady M-ITT™-Imperial Sniper G.L.O.R
Admin

Gladiator, the First Aid Kit is in the cabinet next to the Imperial Liquor Cabinet. I set out a bottle of Glenmorangie. Time for you guys to sit the hell down and toss back a few.

Geeeeeze!!!!! But we seriously need some Troll targets before we gnaw each other to death.

RIP EFA. You will be sorely missed.

LC Ogrrre - Imperial Heartless Bastard
Member

LCBrendan @ #:70 The issue is that he didnt kill the driver…he killed the passenger I repeat: the whole discussion would not be taking place if the stupid bitch had not been breaking the law, or had surrendered quietly after having been caught. As I read the article, both of the so-called adults in the vehicle were shoplifting. One of them won’t anymore … ever. The victims in this story are Wal-Mart and every Wal-Mart shopper who doesn’t steal. The victims are NOT the passenger who was shot and killed, not the kids, or the surviving family. No one was… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Gladiator says: Orion says: I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment. He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…” Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D Orion Thank you Orion. Put much better than I did. Glad somebody understands That’s a horse of… Read more »

Bones
Member
Bones

Ogrrre, you are missing the point. I am unsure if you are blinded by the “magic clothes” or just the hatred of thieves (don’t flame yet, I hate them with a passion and will personnaly put a bullet in the back of your head if you steal from me. If you need it, ask and I will help). He was acting as a fucking “loss prevention associate, aka mall cop, aka rent-a-security”. Got that, he was a private person acting as an agent of WALMART, not a fucking Sherriff. He has no duty, obligation or right to go beyond the… Read more »

LC Roguetek
Member
LC Roguetek

LC Ogrrre says: LCBrendan @ #:70 The issue is that he didnt kill the driver…he killed the passenger I repeat: the whole discussion would not be taking place if the stupid bitch had not been breaking the law, or had surrendered quietly after having been caught. As I read the article, both of the so-called adults in the vehicle were shoplifting. One of them won’t anymore … ever. The victims in this story are Wal-Mart and every Wal-Mart shopper who doesn’t steal. The victims are NOT the passenger who was shot and killed, not the kids, or the surviving family.… Read more »

LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent
Member

Daym! There’s sure a lot of cordite and smoke in the air in here … *cough* someone open a window will ya? Anyhow, dodging the friendly fire here; I had some thoughts I’ll put out for consideration. This situation occurred and I fear other like it will continue to occur as the society we live in spirals ever more quickly down the drain. View from the cheap seats? If you’re thinking things “aren’t that bad” You ain’t looking close enough. They are bad, and they are going to get worse. We’ve got two main players here – Self Entitled Shoplifter… Read more »

dcs2244
Member
dcs2244

Shelly Frey, 27, was shot and killed by an off-duty sheriff’s deputy at a Houston, TX., Walmart. The deputy was suspicious of Frey, saying he thought she was stealing from the store, reports UK Daily Mail. Harris County Sheriff’s deputies said that Shelly Frey, Tisa Andrews and Yolanda Craig were shoplifting when they were stopped by Louis Campbell, a 26-year veteran of the force, who is employed as a security guard at Walmart. Campbell said that the women dashed to their car, and when he went to open their car door, they drove away. Campbell then thought it was his… Read more »

LC TerribleTroy
Member
LC TerribleTroy

Not gonna comment on the shoot. There are some assumptions made about the deputies status that I would like to comment on. 1. Upon taking the oath of office, the majority of LE are considered to never to be entirely “off duty.” 2. Many LE depts (especially the larger ones) actually have a “extra duty” coordinator and entities wishing uniformed coverage pay the dept and the dept pays the LEO. The fact that the LEO was in full departmental uniform indicates the the LEO was not functioning as a security officer but as LE.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program……

LC Gladiator
Member
LC Gladiator

So, how does one explain a “good mother” shoplifting? Interesting. Earlier in the year Shelly Frey pleaded guilty to stealing shirts and a package of meat from another Walmart and as part of her plea arrangement she agreed to never enter Walmart stores again.

REPEAT offender
Left children alone in car, possible kidnap victims
Resisted arrest
Battery against LEO
Great role model for kids
“perfect Mom” ????

VonZorch Imperial Researcher
Member
VonZorch Imperial Researcher

Bones says: Gawd, I so wanted to not comment on this, but here goes…. the “officer” was a fucking security guard for walmart. He should have been fired on the spot for moon-lighting in his “magic costume” (first offence). Wally-world requires their “security” to follow, get a licence plate and call the police. Did he do this or want to go all rambo on these wastes of protoplasm? Well, the fact one of them is dead means he did not follow wally-world security guard guidelines (opens them up to a whole world of litigation by little miss perfects offspring [or… Read more »

angrywebmaster
Member

VonZorch Imperial Researcher @ #:

Exactly, if Ossifa Frenly wasn’t a LEO he would be cooling his heels in jail awaiting a grand jury for felony charges. As he is supposedly a trained professional in these situations, he should be held to an even higher standard of conduct.

You have just hit the double standard. Of course, most CCW people would have the sense not to shoot and probably not even draw their guns.

And as I’ve said before, pending more detailed information, this has the appearance of a bad shooting.