Rotties: whats your call

Article as follows

Shelly Frey, 27, was shot and killed by an off-duty sheriff’s deputy at a Houston, TX., Walmart. The deputy was suspicious of Frey, saying he thought she was stealing from the store, reports UK Daily Mail. Harris County Sheriff’s deputies said that Shelly Frey, Tisa Andrews and Yolanda Craig were shoplifting when they were stopped by Louis Campbell, a 26-year veteran of the force, who is employed as a security guard at Walmart.

Campbell said that the women dashed to their car, and when he went to open their car door, they drove away. Campbell then thought it was his duty to stop the perpetrators so he fired the deadly shot into the car which hit Frey in the neck. Security at the store noticed the three women putting items into their purses and notified Campbell, who was working an extra job that night.

The three shoplifters tried to pay for some small items to serve as a cover for the ones they planned to steal.Campbell opened Frey’s car door and told her to get out, after he chased her and the other two women to the car, but she refused, said officials.Andrews started to drive away while the deputy was standing between the open door and the driver’s seat. “She threw it in reverse and tried to run over the deputy,” said Harris County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Deputy Thomas Gilliland.

Gilliland said, “He confronted the suspects at exit of the store before they left. One female wouldn’t stop, struck the deputy with her purse, ran off.” He added, “I think it knocked him off balance and, in fear of his life and being ran over, he discharged his weapon at that point.”Officials said that there were two small children in the vehicle at the time of the incident, although they were not Frey’s, who is a mother of two.

“He was clearly marked in uniform as a Harris County deputy. And identified himself as the suspects were leaving the establishment,” said Gilliland regarding Campbell. Even with Frey wounded, the women still fled, but they stopped at The Worthington at the Beltway apartments in the 1300 block of Greens Parkway. Frey was pronounced dead at the scene when paramedics arrived.

“Shelly was the perfect mom, perfect friend, perfect daughter,” said her father, Shelton Frey.“Why couldn’t you just shoot the tire, shoot the window?” said her mother Sharon Wilkerson. “Was it that serious?”Sharon said that even if Frey did shoplift, she didn’t deserve to die. She is now concerned for Frey’s children.Andrews and Craig have both been charged with shoplifting. A small price to pay when their friend was shot to death.

As for deputy Campbell, he is on three days paid leave for standard protocol. The Harris County Sheriff’s Homicide Unit, Office of the Inspector General and the Harris County District Attorney’s Office will investigate this horrific incident. The case will go in front of a grand jury.

Firstly: I am making no excuses for the perps. They tried to run over a cop.

My questions are:

1. Given that the cop was aware there were children in the car,

2. Given that he fired at a car that was receding from him and,

3. He didnt hit the driver, he shot and killed the passenger

As usual in these cases, the reports conflict, one says he was dragged then he fired, another says he fired after the car drove off.

I do not claim to be LEO nor have I ever been in this situation. I am also aware that in the past , staff have been told not to follow shoplifters, so how does an off duty cop at a WalMart operate?

Under the same Rules of Engagement as a normal police duty shift?

IF he fired when the car was receding, should he have, since he would be firing through a rear window and his target picture would have been obscured?

I am making no excuses nor justification, nor judgement in any way, I am simply interested in how this would handle as a shoot / dont shoot scenario.

Thanks.

85 comments

  1. 1
    barrett9950 growls and barks:

    From what I read…he went way over the top with that.

  2. 2
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    The reason I mentioned sight picture is one of the first things my range instructor hammered into me

    “Brendan, if you cant identify the target, if you arent sure what you are firing at, if you dont know with 100% surety where that bullet is going, keep your fucking finger off that trigger or I will rip your arm off at the shoulder”

  3. 3
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    I’m not a police officer, but this looks unjustified. Hit with a purse? The only reason I can think of to shoot was they were trying to run him down and I don’t see this indicated in the story.

    At first glance, it looks like another LAPD v Dorner situation where they were shooting at anything that moved.

    We need more data, but if this was not a justified shooting, this clown belongs in a jail cell.

  4. 4
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    A crime is a crime. Good riddance.

  5. 5
    single stack growls and barks:

    It appears that the deputy fucked up. Based on the (incomplete) information in the story I don’t believe he was justified in shooting at all.
    The deputy had too many other options for shooting into the car to be justified. These were thieves, not killers on a violent rampage. A few baubles from Walmart aren’t worth someone’s life.
    As a 26 year veteran LEO he should have known better than to try to apprehend 3 people who had demonstrated that they were going to resist and run by himself. He should have made the necessary observations (descriptions, vehicle tag no., etc) which he should be very good at, and called dispatch. Surely a deputy in uniform can access the SO communication system. (I’m kind of bothered by the fact that he was moonlighting as a rent-a-cop in his SO uniform)
    The driver likely didn’t try to run over the deputy. Of course the SO is going to claim she did. It’s probable that the car was in a spot where the only way out was in reverse and she was simply trying to get away.
    Don’t misconstrue my comments as sympathy for the thieves. They’re not. These are thieves and getting hurt or killed is one of the hazards of being a thief. I just think that a 26 year veteran LEO should have known better than to do what he did.
    One thing that really bothers me about this is if he shot into the car as it was receding. At that time the occupants were no longer a threat (and never would have been if he hadn’t escalated the situation). If a regular CCW holder did that, especially killing a passenger who had never been a threat at all, he would be a guest of the state for a very long time.

  6. 6
    NR Pax growls and barks:

    We don’t have all the facts, but based on what has been posted I would say he should not have shot at the car. His life was apparently not in immediate danger and the vehicle was leaving the scene.

    To answer your question about him acting as a security guard and his rules: They would be the same as any other security guard: Don’t pursue outside the store, take down all relevant information and call the cops.

  7. 7
    LC SecondMouse growls and barks:

    I hate situations like this one. Worse, this is my town. I know some of the LEOs here. My thoughts:

    It certainly seems like the deputy made several mistakes, but I have questions. I would like to know when he drew his weapon. I am also concerned that in the heat of the moment, he was unwilling to realize that he alone was not going to be able to make an arrest. At that moment, he needs to be able to dispassionately change his tactics. Firing into a moving vehicle is serious business, and the test for doing so is very high – higher than the immediate circumstances suggest. My wife watched a situation just like this unfold in a parking lot several months ago, and the LEO never drew his weapon, but pulled out his radio and began relaying information on the fleeing vehicle and occupants. Seems like a wiser way to handle the situation.

    That said, people who willfully commit a crime run the risk of encountering someone willing to use deadly force to oppose them. There is ALWAYS a risk that this will occur. Our society needs to be willing to say “too fucking bad. You put yourself in this situation, and these events are yours to own as a result.”

    There is no magical transformation that takes place when you complete the training and take to oath to serve in law enforcement that makes you immune to your emotions. The majority of these folks are good and decent people who are sometimes placed in difficult or impossible situations, and we expect them to be as calm and cool in the moment as we are when we read about them later. As a society, we do not have enough empathy for the people who serve and protect, which makes their jobs all the more difficult and continues to erode the public trust in law enforcement, which only breeds more of the law breaking behavior in a vicious cycle.

    If this deputy made mistakes and used poor judgement, then deal with it professionally. Evaluate the training and preparation for these scenarios. Look at his record to see if a pattern emerges – not everyone should work in law enforcement. But as far as I am concerned, there is no obligation on the part of society to injured criminals.

  8. 8
    MikeC growls and barks:

    Whether he did the ‘right thing’, the first question to answer is did he do a legal thing. I’m no lawyer (spit), but I think he did. Consider he was in Texas. From here It is noted:

    Deadly force is permissible under the law when a person is attempting to defend himself from deadly force of an attacker in his home, vehicle or place of employment, or against attackers who are committing crimes of kidnapping, murder, sexual assault or robbery

    They were clearly commiting at least robbery, but also attempted murder since they tired to run over him. It is not clear that he knew there were kids (human shields?) in the car, but I can only assume that anyone who has to pass the battery of test and range time to be a sworn officer would only shoot if he had a clear shot. Again, that is incidental as I think it was a legal shooting.

  9. 9
    LC Spare Parts growls and barks:

    Armed robbery, yeah. Shoplifting, nah. He should have copied the plate, and or put out a broadcast asap.

  10. 10
    idahobob growls and barks:

    Shooting over shoplifting? :em03:

    My God, what a fucking idiot cop……….wait a minute, most cops are idiots. :em05:

    Bob
    III

  11. 11
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Technically legal, but massively stupid.

    In this modern world, law enforcement has access to so much information about you, it’s painfully easy for them to pick and choose when, where, and how they arrest you.

    You’ve got the car description, and the plate. Have a cruiser waiting for them when they get home. Problem solved, nobody gets shot.

    I also call into question the ‘attempted to run him over’. most people in parking lots park nose in. they would -have- to back up to pull out.

    The Blue Tribe are notorious for lying about situations like this. They even have a word for it, ‘testilying’ that -they- invented.

    The bigger problem with this, is that the idiot deputy( and yes, he -is- an idiot) will very likely get promoted/commended. Happens all the time.

    the Blue Tribe have been getting into the habit of abusing the peasantry without consequence for a while now. I’m not saying this is one of those times, but it’s certainly not the local police department’s finest hour.

  12. 12
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    also -Allegedly- tried to run the deputy over. We have no way of knowing, at this time, if the deceased actually did try to run him over, or if he’s just trying to cover his ass.

  13. 13
    single stack growls and barks:

    They were clearly commiting at least robbery, but also attempted murder since they tired to run over him.

    They were shoplifting, not committing robbery. There’s a very big difference.
    Did the driver try to kill him by running over him, or did she bump him in her haste to make her escape? Again, there’s a very big difference.

    but I can only assume that anyone who has to pass the battery of test and range time to be a sworn officer would only shoot if he had a clear shot. Again, that is incidental as I think it was a legal shooting.

    That’s a mighty big assumption. I’ve been around a lot of cops on the range. The level of marksmanship and the atrocious gun handling that are common don’t inspire confidence in their skill or judgement. Firearms qualification tests are designed to be passable by people who carry a gun for the job but have no other interest in guns.
    Did he shoot into the car as it was fleeing? If so it wasn’t a legal shooting.

    also -Allegedly- tried to run the deputy over. We have no way of knowing, at this time, if the deceased actually did try to run him over, or if he’s just trying to cover his ass.

    The deceased was a passenger, not the driver.

  14. 14
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    FTA <<<<<<Officer Campbell opened Frey’s car door and told her to get out, after he chased her and the other two women to the car, but she refused, said officials.

    Andrews started to drive away while the deputy was standing between the open door and the driver’s seat.

    “She threw it in reverse and tried to run over the deputy,” said Harris County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Deputy Thomas Gilliland.

    Gilliland said, “He confronted the suspects at exit of the store before they left. One female wouldn’t stop, struck the deputy with her purse, ran off.” He added, “I think it knocked him off balance and, in fear of his life and being ran over, he discharged his weapon at that point.”>>>>>>>

    Rightous shoot

  15. 15
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    According to Harris County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Deputy Thomas Gilliland, the off-duty cop only shot the suspected Walmart shoplifter to death when he believed the driver intended on running him down in an attempt to abscond with the alleged stolen merchandise:

    “She threw it in reverse and tried to run over the deputy … He confronted the suspects at exit of the store before they left. One female wouldn’t stop, struck the deputy with her purse, ran off … I think it knocked him off balance and, in fear of his life and being ran over, he discharged his weapon at that point.”

    1- Mother had no business acting a fool and putting her life and others in danger (and taking her kids with her to committ a crime) (and leaving the children unattended while committing said crime). She paid the ultimate price for her behavior.

    2- Yes it’s unfortunate that she lost her life and as trivial as it may seem that what she was suspected of stealing was probably not worth it but she and no one else but her and her girls who were with her at the time is to blame for her untimely demise and as hard as everyone wants to believe that she didn’t deserve to die there will always be consequences to one’s actions. Fate and Karma are joined at the hip and whether you believe it or not this is a stark reminder that they do exist

    3- Oh give me a break! She had a history of shoplifting and was banned from all Walmart stores! She ran and was in a moving car! Sorry, you come at me in a car, I will shoot your ass! Hitting the tire will not bring it to an immediate stop! Stop playing Monday morning quarterback and acknowledge that if this idiot mom had adhered to the Walmart ban she would be alive! My only condolences go to the children…not this bonehead woman and her ratchet crew!

  16. 16

    “Shelly was the perfect mom, perfect friend, perfect daughter,” said her father, Shelton Frey.

    and you were definitely a perfect father right? momma takes the kiddies for a little crime spree with her girlfriends, just a little quality time…….I wonder where daddy was? or if her kids even KNOW who daddy is.

    not enough details to make a judgement in this one. But just one more example of how our society is imploding

  17. 17
    Orion growls and barks:

    I don’t think that backing up with someone standing by the door is ‘trying to run them over’

    Trying to knock them down? Yes.

    But run them over? No.

    For all the reasons listed above, this was a very, very bad shoot and the Cop needs to be prosecuted for it.

    Orion

  18. 18
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    FTA <<<<<>>>>>>
    Rightous shoot

    Legal? yes. Righteous? oh fuck no. For starters, just to make things even -worse- than I thought, he didn’t even hit the ‘threat’. He shot the fucking passenger, who had absolutely no control over the vehicle. Yeah, that was a fucking -great- idea.

    This was fucking -stupid-.

    Take some time, and dig up any surveys on how the general populace feels about law enforcement. I think you’ll find that ‘civilian support of law enforcement’ is at it’s lowest recorded point in the history of this nation.

    Of course, it might help if they didn’t walk, talk, dress, and act like a fucking occupying army.

    And, for the record, I hope you wind up on the receiving end of the same level of decision making you so wildly approve of.

  19. 19
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Seriously, what kind of effort would it have taken to back off, take a deep breath, and -call in the goddamn plate number-?

    Throw ‘resisting arrest’ and ‘assaulting an officer’ onto the pile, and throw her ass in jail, after due process.

  20. 20
    passionate conservative growls and barks:

    Houston Cops all think that they are in Lethal Weapon, but all they do is come across like Reno 911.

  21. 21
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    There is no magical transformation that takes place when you complete the training and take to oath to serve in law enforcement that makes you immune to your emotions. The majority of these folks are good and decent people who are sometimes placed in difficult or impossible situations, and we expect them to be as calm and cool in the moment as we are when we read about them later. As a society, we do not have enough empathy for the people who serve and protect, which makes their jobs all the more difficult and continues to erode the public trust in law enforcement, which only breeds more of the law breaking behavior in a vicious cycle.

    empathy? we don’t have enough -empathy-?!

    http://www.policemisconduct.net/

    We give them respect, power, and a blank fucking check when it comes to ending the lives of the rest of the population, and you’re telling me we don’t have enough fucking -empathy-?

    And before people start making spluttering noises, I want you to think about a few things.

    1. how many police officers actually see jail time for breaking the law and/or abusing their power vs. the ones who receive no punishment, or get rewarded.

    2. How many times police who break the ‘code of silence’ get hounded out of the profession, jailed, ‘institutionalized for their own safety’ or otherwise silenced?

    3. how many times police who ‘break the code’ and actually get rewarded for stopping bad behavior of other officers.

  22. 22
    noahquackenbush growls and barks:

    Chicago LEO officer here.I work the west side, and have had the pleasure of eliminating my share of “threats”.I have enjoyed reading all of the comments on this thread. The only thing they have in common is that no one was on scene. It sure is fun to Monday morning quarterback, isn’t it? To LCD Roguetec, a few responses. How many police officers do jail time? Almost all of them. Have a chat with Bill Cozzi, who did five years in a federal penitentiary for slapping a drunk who was causing a disturbance at a hospital. The only people who get rewarded are the connected, or clouted. Cops roll over on their own all the time. They are called bosses. And the CCSA has wet dreams when they can prosecute a cop. But don’t fret! The police, especially in Shitcago, have become a reactive force. Make a traffic stop? Might get sued. Find a named offender? Get a warrant mam. Most, not all, of the rank and file, at least in Chicago, spend most of their tour reading, watching movies, or driving around aimlessly in circles. (See the new VRI initiative). You wanna pay me for taking reports and putting up crime scene tap? Deal. In the end, the citizens get the police they want….remember,19P clears them all!

  23. 23
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    You’ll pardon me if I find your statements hard to believe, given the information I have be able to find.

  24. 24
  25. 25
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    while I”m thinking about it.

    “But don’t fret! The police, especially in Shitcago, have become a reactive force. Make a traffic stop? Might get sued. Find a named offender? Get a warrant mam. Most, not all, of the rank and file, at least in Chicago, spend most of their tour reading, watching movies, or driving around aimlessly in circles. (See the new VRI initiative). You wanna pay me for taking reports and putting up crime scene tap? Deal. In the end, the citizens get the police they want….remember,19P clears them all!”

    If things have reached the point where the populace is actively hostile to you, and is looking for any and all chances to do you harm, via lawsuits, or any other means at their disposal…

    One might wonder how things got that way.

  26. 26
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator @ #:

    A crime is a crime. Good riddance.

    So we should make jaywalking subject to summary execution, then?

  27. 27
    single stack growls and barks:

    Fa Cube Itches @ #: 26

    It often seems that in the paranoid police state that our society has become many have lost sight of one of the cornerstones of justice:

    “The punishment should fit the crime”

  28. 28
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    From the story:

    “Campbell then thought it was his duty to stop the perpetrators so he fired the deadly shot into the car which hit Frey in the neck” (emphasis mine).

    There’s the problem right there – looks like the parameters of his job weren’t clearly defined, he wasn’t trained, and his understanding of the law is for shit: (1) he didn’t know what his exact responsibilities were with respect to potential shoplifters; (2) there was no clear delineation on (and he had utterly no understanding of) what level of force he was allowed to employ with respect to No. 1. He could (and should) have simply recorded the license number and notified on-duty police. Generally speaking, since lethal force can only be used to protect life of self/life of another, the possible results from pulling a weapon in a shopping center parking lot are going to skew very heavily towards the bad/horrific.

    That said, I’m not sure how the country will cope with the loss of another devoted humanitarian and future astronaut. Those kind of people don’t just grow on trees, yanno.

  29. 29
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    MikeC @ #:

    They were clearly commiting at least robbery

    No, they were committing larceny. Robbery involves the use/threatened use of real (or at least apparent) force; hence, it is regarded as a more serious crime.

  30. 30
    bruce growls and barks:

    my introduction to cops happened when i was in grade school because my mom got a cop demoted.this cop would read the obituaries than stop widows and threaten them with arrest if they did not put out.one of the woman was a neighbor who told my mom who called our senator who called the governor, who called the chief of police,who demoted said cop to crossing guard when he should have been fired.the bastard would hassle my brother and i because we went home where he was a crossing guard.one day he was slapping my brother around so i went behind the two story building that they were in front of and grabbed a 10lb bag of trash climbed a tree to get on to the roof where i dropped it on the cops head which knocked him out.i have seen bad cops and good cops and all it takes is a few assholes to give cops a bad name.shooting at woman shoplifters in a moving car then claiming they tried to run him over sounds lame and i think he is in trouble.why didn’t he call for cop cars to take care of the criminals?the cops will try to cover for this dope but i hope it costs the city a bundle of money.from what i have seen most cops are not gun people who can’t shoot for shit and they end up shooting us instead of the perp.i think the armed citizen shoots more criminals than the cops but some times a round goes astray and hits a by stander however for every by stander the citizen hits the cop shoot 10.

  31. 31
    LC/IB PrimEviL growls and barks:

    I would hate to be a juror on a case like this. Having been on Jury in the past, all one has to go on
    are eyewitless ‘testabalony’, and official ‘testalying’. It’s not even the old ‘who’s lying now’ game.
    It’s more on the order of trying to figure out who’s lying the most now.

  32. 32
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC/IB PrimEviL @ #:

    I would hate to be a juror on a case like this.

    I suspect there were a few security cameras in the area. If there were and they got a good picture, this will be sorted out in no time, especially if they all seem to have suffered “Malfunctions” at the time of the incident.

  33. 33
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    It will be interesting to see how this comes out. The question of exactly when he fired is what nags at me…which side was he on, driver or passenger side..and did he fire into the rear window?

    Also, the driver is on the left, passenger on the right…so how did he hit the passenger? How steady was his aim? Makes me wonder of he panicked, drew and fired without aiming…

  34. 34
    sablegsd growls and barks:

    He was a security donk. Not there as a cop. He sure behaved like a cop though. Unjustified shooting. Kind of like those idiots shooting into trucks. Those are the kind coming for your guns.

  35. 35
    sablegsd growls and barks:

    bruce @ #:

    A damned shame your momma never taught you some punctuation.

  36. 36
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    When you stop supporting your Police, you invite ANARCHY. This cop was within his rights, and the perp had numerous priors. TOO BAD

  37. 37
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    I never said I didnt support the cops, I am not taking sides as you will note from the original post. I was simply asking for feedback from those who know far better than I for their take on this, and what may, or may not, have gone down.

    I am making no excuses nor justification, nor judgement in any way, I am simply interested in how this would handle as a shoot / dont shoot scenario.

  38. 38
    Special Ed growls and barks:

    Sorry, didn’t yet read the other comments. But, 22 years in LE.

    FUCK NO, YOU DON”T SHOOT!

    You are no longer in imminent danger. The perps are not a danger to you, themselves, or others. The perps have not committed a capital crime. There are innocent bystanders in the immediate proximity of your line of fire.

    FUCK NO, YOU DON’T SHOOT!

  39. 39
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Overreaction. Run the plate, have a B&W waiting at their house. Watch the security video, nail them for petty theft, resisting arrest, assaulting an officer, child endangerment, reckless endangerment, problem solved.

    Was zero excuse for gun play there. Officer Triggerhappy should loose his immunity, his career, and his freedom for this.

  40. 40
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Another report

    Suspect Tiasa Andrews began to drive away while the deputy was standing between the open door and the driver’s seat. He then opened fire, fearing for his safety as it appeared the woman was trying to run him over, deputies said. Frey later died from a gunshot wound at an apartment complex in the 1300 block of Greens Parkway.

    Am I reading this right?

    He was between the open passenger door and the drivers seat, so literally the door was open, and he was standing, and the driver sitting down…if I read this correctly (and Im no expert) he drew and fired at point blank range, and hit the passenger?

    Harris County Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Deputy Thomas Gilliland tried to explain the officer’s actions: “When the vehicle took off,

    he was standing between the door frame and the driver. I think it knocked him off balance and in fear for his life, being run over, he discharged his weapon at that point.”

    Wha..?

    Okay now I am confused…he was standing, door open..car starts to move…he is off balance or stumbles owing to the motion of the car…draws and fires whilst off balance, and shoots the passenger in the neck?

    Others are questioning the officer’s decision to fire into the car, which also had two small children in the backseat.

    Oh shit…..

    What kind of woman or mother takes a friend to go shoplift at WalMart and takes her KIDS along?

    What a clusterfuck….

  41. 41
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    When you stop supporting your Police, you invite ANARCHY. This cop was within his rights, and the perp had numerous priors. TOO BAD

    given what I’ve seen from law enforcement, anarchy might be an improvement.

    Also, seriously, what the fuck is wrong with your brain? Where do you draw the line? How badly do the police have to misbehave before you say ‘hey, wait a second, this isn’t right?’

    For a lot of people, it’s not the misconduct that burns so much as the fact that, from all external appearances, the vast majority of those bastards get away with it.

    That stings most of all. But, apparently, you’re entirely comfortable with ‘one law for me, and another for thee.’.

    You sound just like DJ, only stupider.

  42. 42
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    here’s a prime example…

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/06/17212442-man-left-in-solitary-confinement-for-2-years-gets-155-million-settlement?lite

    They misplaced this dude for TWO YEARS. The maltreatment he suffered has effectively given him a death sentance.

    the taxpayers are on the hook for millions.

    the police, the DA’s office, the coffectional facility? Buisiness as usual, nobody’s getting fired.

  43. 43
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    “Williams, the Dona Ana County public information officer, said no jail personnel have been fired over Slevin’s treatment. ”

    And…

    “But for Coyte, Slevin’s attorney, there’s still one more change that needs to be made: Dona Ana County Jail’s warden.

    “If you were in the trial and heard what the person who ran the facility said, you would be appalled,” Coyte said. “I get lots of people [inmates] calling from that jail asking for help. Am I pleased that they’ve spent more money in the jail? Absolutely. I’m pleased that Mr. Slevin’s case has made a difference in the jail. But the same people are running it, and it’s an attitude of how you run something.”

  44. 44
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    I read this as well.

    What kind of jail refuses a prisoner medical care? No lawyer, no doctors, refused a dentist…why isnt that warden and the staff all under arrest?

  45. 45
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    I read this as well.
    What kind of jail refuses a prisoner medical care? No lawyer, no doctors, refused a dentist…why isnt that warden and the staff all under arrest?

    That’s why us peasantry don’t like cops anymore. they act like an invading army, treat people like shit, violate the law with impunity, and are rarely punished.

    Oh, and we get to pony up for the payouts to cover their mis-deeds, as well.

  46. 46
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    Oh dear, and how I hate Monday Morning Quarterbacking as you always have incomplete information in cases like these and have to go with what little you have and couple it with your built-in bullshit filter to get anywhere. So therefore, with that in mind and for what it’s worth, which isn’t a whole fucking lot, here’s my two cents:

    First off, I couldn’t care less of a shit about the shooter being LE and the shootee being a skanky ho. That’s immaterial here. The question before us is: Was this proper use of lethal force?

    No, it wasn’t. And, if I may for the single one time I’m going to bring up the shooter’s career choice, with 26 frackin’ years on the force he should have bloody well known so. What possessed him to behave so irresponsibly stupidly I will never know and there just might be an explanation for it, I’m not ruling that out, but to discharge a firearm at a fleeing vehicle in a Wal-Mart parking lot when nothing worse than larceny had been committed and, as anybody who has actually discharged a firearm will know, to do so not having the first clue other than the general zip code as to where the projectile will end up, I’d say some remedial training was in order.

    The only possible loophole I can think of is the lovely Texas statute that says that you MAY employ lethal force if somebody is getting away with property that you have no reasonable hope of recovering otherwise (yes, peeps, that DOES mean that you can legally shoot a car burglar in the back as he’s running down the street with your car stereo under his arm. It doesn’t mean that I’d ever do so, but that’s my choice. I have the right to do so under the law), but the way I read that and have always read it is if the property in question is your personal property.

    Regardless, to go shooting up a parking lot because a couple of hos are making off with a purse full of marked down Wal-Mart crap is not what I’d call professional behavior. What if the bullet had ricocheted off the tire or the body of the car and blown out granny’s brains on her way to Denny’s for a plate of liver and onions? Anybody here care to stand up and defend his decision to go OK Corral in public THEN?

    Listen, I have a very good relationship to my local PD and to PDs in general and I really, really try to give officers the benefit of the doubt whenever I can. Not just because of a bias caused by knowing so very many excellent members of our various LE agencies all over the country, but also because I know that stories about officers behaving badly are like catnip to the Marxist Media so about 75% of it can be automatically and safely assumed to be utter bullshit.

    But it’s not about that here. It’s not even about him being a damn deputy except for the aforementioned fact that, with 26 years on the force, he should have known better, it’s not about the “blue wall of silence” or any such other bull, it’s about one individual fucking up royally and exercising piss poor judgment, utterly failing to understand when lethal force is appropriate and, possibly, even failing to understand what lethal force fucking IS. Here’s the Cliff’s Notes version: Lethal force is when your weapon clears leather and your booger hook meets the trigger. Once you’ve reached that point, you’ve already MADE the decision to use it or you shouldn’t be allowed to be around guns without adult supervision at ALL.

    It. Is. As. Simple. As. That.

    “Tried to run him over”, “was in fear of his life”. Oh give me a fracking BREAK already. First off, as others have pointed out, most people (not me, I always back in, odd habit of mine) drive in nose first so they can’t fucking get OUT of the spot without reversing and, unless I’m terribly mistaken, the driver didn’t volunteer to open the door. But that too is immaterial, because, and look into your hearts here, just how fucking impossibly hard is it to avoid a door by making one step to the side? It’s not like most cars come with James Bond feature Turn-The-Wheels-Sideways Options so you can drive laterally. And that TOO is immaterial, since Deputy Dillinger here was obviously still hale and hearty at the time he was shooting at the fleeing vehicle.

    Fuck, even if she was coming right at him it would be stupid to shoot at the car as inertia doesn’t really give a good fuck whether there’s a driver behind the wheel or not. Much better to un-ass the AO with all possible haste to live to fight another day.

    What it all comes down to is this, provided that what we know resembles what actually went down which is not at all for sure: Was anybody in immediate danger of life or serious injury had lethal force not been employed and, on a more general note, is it generally considered wise to discharge a firearm at a moving target in a crowded area?

    I don’t like thieves, I don’t like them one little bit, I’ve lost quite a bit to them over my life but, last I checked, thievery (or larceny, to stay within legalese) was not a violent crime and certainly not a capital one. Hasn’t been for at least a couple of centuries. That being said, I completely agree with everybody who’s pointed out that skanky ho and her fellow bitches knowingly placed themselves in a dangerous position when they decided to take the tykes for a shoplifting spree and I’ll be thrice damned if I’ll try to come up with a defense for THAT, but that’s not the question before me here.

    The question is: Did Deputy Friendly exercise proper caution and responsibility when he discharged his firearm in that situation, and my answer, given what I know, all of which may be wrong, is NO. FUCKING. WAY.

    If either of my sons had done the same, I’d be kicking their arses so hard their great-grandchildren would have to sit on three pillows to be comfortable. I trained them better than that.

  47. 47
    Pengor growls and barks:

    Reading between the lines I would say it was an accidental shooting. He probably had his weapon out and his finger on the trigger. It adds up: He had the knowledge and experience to know better than to shoot. He shot the wrong person. He was bumped just before he fired. An accidental shooting would have at least got him fired. Change the story a bit and it is a legal shoot.

  48. 48
    LC Ogrrre growls and barks:

    This whole discussion would not be taking place had the stupid bitch: 1) not been stealing in the first place, 2) not ignored the order to stop in the second place. I doubt seriously that this was the first time the thieving cunt had been shoplifting.
    Did she deserve to die? I’m still out on that. Shoplifters steal billions of dollars of merchandise in this country each year. That cost to the merchants is added on to the cost we who are honest pay for the goods we buy. So, in essence, that bitch was stealing from everyone. Would I have killed her for stealing from my house? If I caught her in the act, you bet your ass I would!

  49. 49
    Pengor growls and barks:

    Police don’t get to make the call if some douche lives or dies. If they do we are no longer in free society. Judge Dread was an interesting comic book, but I would not want to live in that society. Sometimes the scumbag buys the ticket to hell and the officer has to give them the ride. This does not sound like that. What if the crime was having an illegal 30 round magazine? In New York that is a crime that is punished harsher than rape.

  50. 50
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    One might wonder how things got that way.

    It’s Chicago: I’d say, Mayor Richard Daley, Mayor Daley, jr., Rahm Emanuel, Barack Obama, unions, the “machine.”

  51. 51
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    LC Roguetek says:
    One might wonder how things got that way.
    It’s Chicago: I’d say, Mayor Richard Daley, Mayor Daley, jr., Rahm Emanuel, Barack Obama, unions, the “machine.”

    There’s a lovely line in the movie ‘Gross Point Blank’ where the character Martin Blank comments on his career as an assassin for hire.

    ” If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there. ”

    If you’re the police, and the people you’re policing hate your guts, chances are you had a solid hand in the current status quo.

  52. 52
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Something else that just wandered through my sleep deprived brain.

    A number of people on this blog, and in other places, comment about having friends in the police force, and how they like their friends, and they’ve never had any trouble with law enforcement, and their friends would never do anything like what some police have been accused of in other places.

    Of course your friends are going to treat you well, they’re your friends. And in a community as tight knit as the blue tribe, having the mark of the blue tribe on you (sgt so-and-so is my friend) protects you from almost all of the normal abuses that us non-connected peasantry have to put up with.

    You’re going to see, in most cases, their best behavior, again, because who wants to look like a douchebag to their friends?

    I mean, I’m dead certain there were people who though the Stasi were just a bunch of really nice, horribly maligned, hard working police officers. And, for once, I say that without sarcasm.

    In my opinion, the real test of a police officer is how he treats someone he loathes, while nobody’s watching.

  53. 53
    MikeC growls and barks:

    Fa Cube Itches @ #:

    Uh yep – I did mention i’m not a (spit) lawyer right? Howsomever, I do believe legally a weapon can be anything – a frisbee, a pen, a purse…

    The legal application of force by the police versus a private citizen at his place of employment are two different things. Hello castle doctrine… in Texas.

    I am guessing it’s a moot point. The guy will never be a cop anywhere again, and Walmart will settle out of court with the vulnerable’s family for an undisclosed huge settlement. That right there is why the management of the store should have made sure the guy knew the rules of engagement and would follow them.

    Was it the right thing to do? Of course not. This Monday morning quarterback thinks his decision making started going wrong with standing in that door thinking she wouldn’t try to back out over him and ended with that shot. But was it legal? I think so. Will it matter? I honestly can’t say…

  54. 54
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    I’ll bet you fifty bucks, that said officer will still have his job when the dust settles.

  55. 55
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    I’ll bet you fifty bucks, that said officer will still have his job when the dust settles.

    As he deserves. The scumbag died ,the Cop lived. Justice was served. Rogue must think theft is ok……………..like most lowlifes

  56. 56
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    And before I get flamed. I VERY generously contributed to Roguetek and his wife when they were in need………………………………obviously he forgets with his attacks on me….

  57. 57
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    They misplaced this dude for TWO YEARS. The maltreatment he suffered has effectively given him a death sentance.

    the taxpayers are on the hook for millions.

    the police, the DA’s office, the coffectional facility? Buisiness as usual, nobody’s getting fired.

    You drunk dude?? sentance is sentence,coffectional is correctional,buisiness is business……………………………step away from the computer and chill………..

  58. 58
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    And before I get flamed. I VERY generously contributed to Roguetek and his wife when they were in need………………………………obviously he forgets with his attacks on me….

    You’re right, I don’t remember it. Tell you what, name a dollar amount, and I’ll have a money order to you by the end of the month. No, I don’t know where I’ll find the money, but I’ll -find- it.

    The best argument you can come up with is that I should agree with you, because you gave me charity? Seriously, that’s some pretty underhanded shit.

    And before you kick the Whaaaaambulance into high gear, you might want to seriously consider how much of your ass you want to show.

  59. 59
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    LC Roguetek says:
    I’ll bet you fifty bucks, that said officer will still have his job when the dust settles.
    As he deserves. The scumbag died ,the Cop lived. Justice was served. Rogue must think theft is ok……………..like most lowlifes

    Ah, so I’m a lowlife because I believe in accountability, due process, and rule of law, as opposed to panicked semi-random gunfire in wal-mart parking lots.

    If that’s your definition of ‘lowlife’, then hell yes, I’m a lowlife.

  60. 60
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    LC Roguetek says:
    They misplaced this dude for TWO YEARS. The maltreatment he suffered has effectively given him a death sentance.
    the taxpayers are on the hook for millions.
    the police, the DA’s office, the coffectional facility? Buisiness as usual, nobody’s getting fired.
    You drunk dude?? sentance is sentence,coffectional is correctional,buisiness is business……………………………step away from the computer and chill………..

    Before you open your piehole, genius, you might want to Read The Fine Article -.

    He was never charged in a court of law.

    He was never tried.

    He was never convicted.

    They shoved him in solitary, and forgot he existed, literally.

    The cops that arrested him fucked up, and suffered no penalty.

    The DA who was supposed to see to it he was charged, arraigned, and tried, fucked up, and suffered no penalty.

    The Corrections Officers who ignored him, and left him to rot, fucked up, and suffered no penalty.

    Even after the courts found in the victim’s favor, and found -again- in favor on the appeal, nobody got fired.

    That’s wrong. And what makes it even worse is people like you think this is somehow a -good- thing.

  61. 61
    Igor, Imperial Booby growls and barks:

    Late to the party. Again.

    Well, after having read all the sound and fury, opinion, and even some poo flinging, I have to put in my pfennig’s worth.

    Obligatory disclaimer: I wasn’t there. I most certainly don’t have all the evidence.
    Obligatory disclaimer: I’ve had experience with good cops, I’ve had experience with bad cops. That’s just Life.

    Now, personally, I think the “officer” was an idiot. I wouldn’t trust him to wipe his butt properly even with full adult supervision and full instructions and a test given.

    You don’t:
    a) put yourself in the way of the vehicle. You should have already figured out these scumbags were going to run. IN their car.
    b) draw your weapon in a case like this. Did he see any weapons brandished? Anybody shooting at him?
    c) try to stop Thelma & Louise. Get the plate, call it in. That’s why radio was invented.

    Some conclusions:
    a) “Officer Friendly” should NEVER have drawn his weapon. His judgement is suspect, to say the least.
    b) The Stoopid Broads put themselves in jeopardy. While the one didn’t deserve what she got, NOBODY FORCED HER to be there and in the line of fire. Karma eventually catches up to ya.

    Finally,

    “Shelly was the perfect mom, perfect friend, perfect daughter,” said her father, Shelton Frey.“Why couldn’t you just shoot the tire, shoot the window?” said her mother Sharon Wilkerson. “Was it that serious?”Sharon said that even if Frey did shoplift, she didn’t deserve to die. She is now concerned for Frey’s children.Andrews and Craig have both been charged with shoplifting. A small price to pay when their friend was shot to death.

    Good Lord, what a bunch of luzers…

    I personally think Our Beloved Emperor Misha did a good synopsis. That’s my call, and I’m stickin’ to it.

  62. 62
    LC LOBO growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    And before I get flamed. I VERY generously contributed to Roguetek and his wife when they were in need………………………………obviously he forgets with his attacks on me….

    Well, don’t that make you fucking special. Not.
    This isn’t DC, you cannot buy loyalty. And as he said, name the dollar amount fuckhead. Moreso if you “helped” with me getting back to see my Mom before she passed.

  63. 63
    Orion growls and barks:

    I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment.

    He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…”

    Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D

    Orion

  64. 64
    LC MuscleDaddy growls and barks:

    Later than most this time, so I’m going to keep it simple:

    Moving (receding) vehicle, kids in the car, Killed the passenger because he was in-fear-of-his-life from being run-over?

    Be Sure of Your Target and Backstop.

    Just on the basis of that alone…

    – MD

  65. 65
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    Orion says:

    I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment.

    He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…”

    Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D

    And I think you’re right, I’ve known Glad for a long time, but I also understand why Rogue read it the way he did, because that’s the way it looked like. Ask me, please, if I’ve ever typed something that came off as assholery even though I never intended it as such. I have.

    And if Glad was the “you owe me” type, he’d have plenty of chits to cash in on for all the times he’s helped me, mine, my loved ones or anybody else, yet he never has. Not once. He has never asked me for a damn thing through all of the years in return for what he’s done, so I’m fairly certain that what came across as “you have to agree with me because I once helped you”, and I do agree that it looked like that, was just a misunderstanding. Not that I’VE ever worded anything poorly. Yes, please start throwing rotten tomatoes at me at this point because that WAS utter bullshit 🙂

    Friendly fire — isn’t.

    It’s the law 🙂

  66. 66
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    This whole discussion would not be taking place had the stupid bitch: 1) not been stealing in the first place, 2) not ignored the order to stop in the second place. I doubt seriously that this was the first time the thieving cunt had been shoplifting.

    Ogrre: The issue is that he didnt kill the driver…he killed the passenger. My call on this is that the cop opened fire without a clear sight picture…and that alone is grounds to take his weapon and his job forever.

    You do not EVER fire unless you are 100% sure you will hit what you are aiming for. A corollary is someone firing through a closed door and killing a neighbour.

    Put steel on target and on the target alone or wear the consequences.

  67. 67
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    I hate to roll in late on this one and drop a turd in the punch bowl. But none of us were there. You can’t honestly say what you would or wouldn’t have done as that LE unless you were wearing his spidey undies that day.

  68. 68
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    You do not EVER fire unless you are 100% sure you will hit what you are aiming for. A corollary is someone firing through a closed door and killing a neighbour.

    Put steel on target and on the target alone or wear the consequences.

    It’s rarely that simple. And no, that’s not a good corollary. Firing blindly through the door is pure negligence. Firing at a moving target while under duress with the target in sight is completely different.

    You check background, call on your training, but your target (and therefore background) moves. No one stands still while you’re shooting at them, right? It’s sort of an important point.

    Arc length is a function of angle and radius. If the target moves 5 degrees then the effective background moves linearly with it but S = THETA * Radius and if the distance to the furthest background is near the effective range of your weapon, you’re covering a shit ton of ground, given that most engagements take place in a 5-25m distance.

    The training and experience level of the officer need to be accounted for along with myriad other variables before anyone makes a judgement.

    we are not in a position to have all of that information, so offering an opinion is lacking in wisdom.

    It may turn out he was justified in the shoot, it may turn out he was a dumbass. Not our call.

  69. 69
    Bones growls and barks:

    Gawd, I so wanted to not comment on this, but here goes…. the “officer” was a fucking security guard for walmart. He should have been fired on the spot for moon-lighting in his “magic costume” (first offence). Wally-world requires their “security” to follow, get a licence plate and call the police. Did he do this or want to go all rambo on these wastes of protoplasm? Well, the fact one of them is dead means he did not follow wally-world security guard guidelines (opens them up to a whole world of litigation by little miss perfects offspring [or brood]). If ANY individual not wearing the “magic clothes” did the EXACT SAME THING, they would be facing manslaughter (or murder 2) as a minimum. Explain to me why he is on paid vacation vice spending every penny he has getting out on bail and hiring a lawyer? When you can logically (and dispassionately) answer those questions, I will be very happy to hear it. I am by no means defending the piece of shits that shoplifted and making such a fine example of themselves for their chilrunns, but you do not murder someone for shoplifting from walmart while acting as a “loss prevention associate”.

  70. 70
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    I don’t normally like to hijack a thread, but this is an important OT, and since this is the most active thread:

    Our beloved Aussie, EFA, was found dead in his home on Friday. According to his Facebook page, autopsy results were pending. They were speculating on choking or a heart attack. He was found by a friend who had stopped in for a visit. RIP, Aussie…

  71. 71
    watchyerlane growls and barks:

    I know folks hate the term “slippery slope” but I am sort of seeing that here. When we can justify shooting some skank because she ran off with a few thongs from Wally-World, how far do we have to go before LE can justify shooting militia members for speaking out in support of the Constitution. Before you flame me, think about 10, 15 or 20 years ago. Do you remember ever hearing shoplifters getting lit up? It is just a continued slide in the disrespect for humanity.
    Officer Crunchy should have kept his sidearm holstered and instead called his buddies who would show up at Miss Perfect’s home and then bust her without event.
    Bad shooting with zero defense (or any defense that would be considered worthy or credible).

  72. 72
    Tango9 growls and barks:

    Bones says:

    Gawd, I so wanted to not comment on this, but here goes…. the “officer” was a fucking security guard for walmart. He should have been fired on the spot for moon-lighting in his “magic costume” (first offence). Wally-world requires their “security” to follow, get a licence plate and call the police. Did he do this or want to go all rambo on these wastes of protoplasm? Well, the fact one of them is dead means he did not follow wally-world security guard guidelines (opens them up to a whole world of litigation by little miss perfects offspring [or brood]). If ANY individual not wearing the “magic clothes” did the EXACT SAME THING, they would be facing manslaughter (or murder 2) as a minimum. Explain to me why he is on paid vacation vice spending every penny he has getting out on bail and hiring a lawyer? When you can logically (and dispassionately) answer those questions, I will be very happy to hear it. I am by no means defending the piece of shits that shoplifted and making such a fine example of themselves for their chilrunns, but you do not murder someone for shoplifting from walmart while acting as a “loss prevention associate”.

    I’m with you. Shoplifting a blouse from walmart is hardly call for use of deadly force.

    But if it was the BX/PX and all the clothes only a Korean (COME TO MERKIA!) woman would buy… maybe… but probably still no.

    I’ll go as far as to say: If I was the LE on scene (and this guy was evidently rent-a-cop) I’d just take the plate and let someone else deal with it.

    In fact, the more I think about it, you could rob Walmart blind and I’d still not be able to find a reason to use deadly force. Those socks only last like 2 weeks, and don’t get me started on the Spiderman jammies. You know how hard it is to find Spidey Jammies in Large?

  73. 73
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    LC Roguetek says:

    The best argument you can come up with is that I should agree with you, because you gave me charity? Seriously, that’s some pretty underhanded shit.

    No Rogue, I dont want my donation back. BUT I WOULD appreciate it that when we disagree (and we do) that you attack my arguments and NOT me personally! (ie:”what the fuck is wrong with your brain? “, “You sound just like DJ, only stupider.”, “And, for the record, I hope you wind up on the receiving end of the same level of decision making you so wildly approve of.”)
    I think we all deserve that.

  74. 74
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Orion says:

    I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment.

    He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…”

    Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D

    Orion

    Thank you Orion. Put much better than I did. Glad somebody understands

  75. 75

    Gladiator, the First Aid Kit is in the cabinet next to the Imperial Liquor Cabinet. I set out a bottle of Glenmorangie. Time for you guys to sit the hell down and toss back a few.

    Geeeeeze!!!!! But we seriously need some Troll targets before we gnaw each other to death.

    RIP EFA. You will be sorely missed.

  76. 76
    LC Ogrrre growls and barks:

    LCBrendan @ #:70

    The issue is that he didnt kill the driver…he killed the passenger

    I repeat: the whole discussion would not be taking place if the stupid bitch had not been breaking the law, or had surrendered quietly after having been caught. As I read the article, both of the so-called adults in the vehicle were shoplifting. One of them won’t anymore … ever. The victims in this story are Wal-Mart and every Wal-Mart shopper who doesn’t steal. The victims are NOT the passenger who was shot and killed, not the kids, or the surviving family. No one was shot for stealing a blouse or some flip-flops. There are many incidents each day where shoplifters are arrested and charged, not shot. I am sure the officer involved would have preferred slapping cuffs on the stupid bitches, rather than having to discharge a weapon.

    On the OT: EFA, rest in peace, and may your family and friends find comfort and solace.

  77. 77
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator says:

    Orion says:
    I think you folks are misunderstanding his comment.
    He wasn’t saying ‘Agree with me because I helped’ – I think he was saying “Before you flame me for hating on/being an asshole/not caring etc…”
    Basically, just saying he’s a stand-up guy, not an asshole. You can disagree with what he says, you can flame away, but like a lot of folks here, he also helps his fellow Rotts – he’s not just here for the high-level intellectual discourse…:D
    Orion
    Thank you Orion. Put much better than I did. Glad somebody understands

    That’s a horse of a different color. Sorry about that, but it really did sound like you were saying ‘you need to shut up cause I own you’.

    That having been said, I really hope you’re trolling in regards to the original post. Because if you -really believe- what you’ve been saying… wow, that’s a bucket of scary-crazy right there. Seriously. No sarcasm, no personal attacks. If you really feel the way you’ve stated, you might want to book some time with a shrink. Again, not a personal attack, not sarcasm. I don’t know what acts led you to your current position of rage and frustration with the pond scum we all have to live with, but you have my sympathies.

    This guy did a dangerously stupid thing, that, and this is the key part, DID NOT NEED TO BE DONE. Bitch can’t out run the radio.

    Also, just finding out that EFA kicked has kinda taken the shine off this little back yard scuffle. I”m punching out for a couple of days, sniff the roses, play in the sun. Enjoy all the things that a brother of mine is no longer able to do.

    I hope you get over whatever has you so angry.

  78. 78
    Bones growls and barks:

    Ogrrre, you are missing the point. I am unsure if you are blinded by the “magic clothes” or just the hatred of thieves (don’t flame yet, I hate them with a passion and will personnaly put a bullet in the back of your head if you steal from me. If you need it, ask and I will help). He was acting as a fucking “loss prevention associate, aka mall cop, aka rent-a-security”. Got that, he was a private person acting as an agent of WALMART, not a fucking Sherriff. He has no duty, obligation or right to go beyond the bounds of his employment restrictions. His job was to attempt to stop them at the exit (failed), barring that to get a licence plate number and call it in. PERIOD, ALL STOP. Because of his actions, wally-world is now on the hook for a multi-million dollar settlement (yes, they will settle this becasue they will loose HUGE at trial with a jury full of leechfucks) becasue of the actions of THEIR AGENT, officer dumbfuck. I read it and the read I get (knowing quite a few bad cops) is “She didn’t repect my authoritaay, so I will show her..”. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way. He should be facing Murder 2 and plead down to (maybe) manslaughter. Read the thing again and take away the majic clothes, change the name to “Bubba” and have him wearing a red flannel shirt, or maybe “Tyrone” and saggy pants. Does your view change now? If not, what is the basis of assuming that this is a good shoot?

  79. 79
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    LC Ogrrre says:

    LCBrendan @ #:70
    The issue is that he didnt kill the driver…he killed the passenger
    I repeat: the whole discussion would not be taking place if the stupid bitch had not been breaking the law, or had surrendered quietly after having been caught. As I read the article, both of the so-called adults in the vehicle were shoplifting. One of them won’t anymore … ever. The victims in this story are Wal-Mart and every Wal-Mart shopper who doesn’t steal. The victims are NOT the passenger who was shot and killed, not the kids, or the surviving family. No one was shot for stealing a blouse or some flip-flops. There are many incidents each day where shoplifters are arrested and charged, not shot. I am sure the officer involved would have preferred slapping cuffs on the stupid bitches, rather than having to discharge a weapon.
    On the OT: EFA, rest in peace, and may your family and friends find comfort and solace.

    Let me put a different spin on this.

    let’s pretend.

    You’re at walmart with your family, You check out, you’re in the parking lot, and a similar situation unfolds. Now, since it’s perfectly ok for the police to open fire to gun down suspected shoplifters by your own words, I assume that you’re also totally ok with it when Officer Cletus drops a couple of misplaced rounds into your family grouping. Doesn’t seem like such a good shoot anymore, does it?

    Or, even better. They mistake -you- for a shoplifter, notice you’re carrying concealed (most rotties do…) and proceed to blow you the fuck away, because ‘officer safety’. And before you say otherwise, take a long hard look at the Erik Scott case in Las Vegas. Nobody got fired over that one, either.

    After all, we’ve established that you approve of summary execution, instead of people using their head.

    It would have only taken a few more degrees off primary target to splatter one of those kids brains all over the inside of the car.

    And, not to put to fine a point on it, Cletus aint gonna learn nothing if you dont spank him when he fucks up. And chewing his ass isn’t going to cut it.

    Yeah, I know, I said I was going out side… I’m goin, I’m goin.

  80. 80

    Daym! There’s sure a lot of cordite and smoke in the air in here … *cough* someone open a window will ya?

    Anyhow, dodging the friendly fire here; I had some thoughts I’ll put out for consideration.

    This situation occurred and I fear other like it will continue to occur as the society we live in spirals ever more quickly down the drain. View from the cheap seats? If you’re thinking things “aren’t that bad” You ain’t looking close enough. They are bad, and they are going to get worse.

    We’ve got two main players here – Self Entitled Shoplifter – and an Armed Security person working probably what has got to be among some of the most miserable jobs there is, security guard.

    BTW – Been There done that – The only time I ever semi enjoyed doing it – was at a KOA Campground – 2 miles from VA- Beach VA, during spring break. Drop tops and and college hotties in bikinis were the flavor of the day. Can’t beat that with a stick… :em01:

    Anyhow, as the rage on both sides of this equation escalates – this is bound to happen more and more I think. I’m not talking about the rage of this particular moment in time, I’m talking about rage across the entire spectrum of These United States.

    The Five finger discount artist – thinks “Wal-mart they making billions – it ain’t gonna hurt them none if I boost a few things, screw em- I’m entitled.”

    She’s Angry
    I’ll give even odds, If she’s boosting from Wally World chances are; her life is shit, maybe there’s some drugs in the picture, maybe not, got a no show daddy and hungry mouths to feed welfare ain’t cutting it and food stamps are gone – no thought of hey “I got my self here how do I try to get out of it”? Nope fuck it – take the easy road because “I’ve been done wrong, oppressed, kept down by the man” – whatever, pick your metaphor.

    The Guard it seems is probably out there working a second job, my time in the armed guard hell was a second job – I was active duty at the time, and absolutely hating life most the time putting in hour after hour doing mind numbing work, trying to keep the rent paid the kid and wife fed etc. I can empathize with him – somewhat – because he’s busting his ass and – to him – in his mind he’s probably thinking “Oh Christ – here we go, here comes the dregs of fucking society and I have to deal with it at Wal Mart for a few lousy bucks – this idiots are stealing cheap ass made in China crap”.

    He’s Angry. 60-70- Maybe more hours a week. No time to decompress.

    Lotta pissed of folks out there struggling in Obama’s/Bohoner’s/Pelosi/Reid’s shitty economy – getting hit every which way they turn, taxes, missed a digit in the check book and now you’re 100 bucks lighter that you ain’t got because the bank raped you on fees – god help you if you don’t have some sort of Overdraft protection….Utility bills just shot up 50-60 bucks, Food prices climbing, Gas breaking your ass every week – Race war’s on a slow boil, on and on it goes..

    Some people – the five finger discount artist – are going to go one way, they are going to try to get over, – some people, the Wal-Mart Security guy – Go Another direction it’s head down & nose to the grind stone and try to make something better in life happen – when those two polar opposites meet some where; given the anger out there these days? It’s bound to end in a bad way – there’s going to be sparks. Big ones, and people like in this case – end up dead.

    Do I think it was a good shot. No. It’s a few bucks of crap goods from China, hardly worth pulling a gun and shooting someone over. But in my minds eye given some of the things I’ve outlined above, I can see this guy popping a valve and just not thinking. The rage took over.
    Do I get a sinking feeling of dismay about the dynamics that led to this – you betcha.

    The Nation is divided, tribes are forming – as we spiral ever faster down that drain – I’m willing to bet – you and I are going to see this more and more.

    Just my 2 cents on the subject.

  81. 81
    dcs2244 growls and barks:

    Shelly Frey, 27, was shot and killed by an off-duty sheriff’s deputy at a Houston, TX., Walmart. The deputy was suspicious of Frey, saying he thought she was stealing from the store, reports UK Daily Mail. Harris County Sheriff’s deputies said that Shelly Frey, Tisa Andrews and Yolanda Craig were shoplifting when they were stopped by Louis Campbell, a 26-year veteran of the force, who is employed as a security guard at Walmart.

    Campbell said that the women dashed to their car, and when he went to open their car door, they drove away. Campbell then thought it was his duty to stop the perpetrators so he fired the deadly shot into the car which hit Frey in the neck. Security at the store noticed the three women putting items into their purses and notified Campbell, who was working an extra job that night.

    I am not going to address the validity of the shoot; I wasn’t on-scene and do not have sufficient facts to comment. I want to address the deputy’s employment status at the time of the incident. The original post stated that he was working an “extra job” at the time of the theft, and that “security” notified him of the theft. An “extra job,” also known as a “detail” or “private job,” is when a private entity hires a police officer to assist with facility security during difficult hours; such as hospital emergency rooms (“casualty” for our AU friends) on Friday and Saturday nights, or the dogwatch at 24 hour concerns such as CVS or Walgreens. This also occurs as “road-jobs,” where the police are hired to control traffic through and around construction sites. These extra-job officers are in uniform but are technically off duty. Their payment comes from the private entity, not the department they are employed by.

    In any event, the deputy in question was not a Walmart Security Guard at the time of the shooting. He was a cop hired by Walmart to assist their security people. Whether or not this (the precaution of hiring an extra job officer) will indemnify Walmart from the coming law suit is unknown to me, as I am not a lawyer. It looks to me like the county may be on the hook for this one.

  82. 82
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Not gonna comment on the shoot. There are some assumptions made about the deputies status that I would like to comment on. 1. Upon taking the oath of office, the majority of LE are considered to never to be entirely “off duty.” 2. Many LE depts (especially the larger ones) actually have a “extra duty” coordinator and entities wishing uniformed coverage pay the dept and the dept pays the LEO. The fact that the LEO was in full departmental uniform indicates the the LEO was not functioning as a security officer but as LE.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled program……

  83. 83
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    So, how does one explain a “good mother” shoplifting? Interesting. Earlier in the year Shelly Frey pleaded guilty to stealing shirts and a package of meat from another Walmart and as part of her plea arrangement she agreed to never enter Walmart stores again.

    REPEAT offender
    Left children alone in car, possible kidnap victims
    Resisted arrest
    Battery against LEO
    Great role model for kids
    “perfect Mom” ????

  84. 84
    VonZorch Imperial Researcher growls and barks:

    Bones says:

    Gawd, I so wanted to not comment on this, but here goes…. the “officer” was a fucking security guard for walmart. He should have been fired on the spot for moon-lighting in his “magic costume” (first offence). Wally-world requires their “security” to follow, get a licence plate and call the police. Did he do this or want to go all rambo on these wastes of protoplasm? Well, the fact one of them is dead means he did not follow wally-world security guard guidelines (opens them up to a whole world of litigation by little miss perfects offspring [or brood]). If ANY individual not wearing the “magic clothes” did the EXACT SAME THING, they would be facing manslaughter (or murder 2) as a minimum. Explain to me why he is on paid vacation vice spending every penny he has getting out on bail and hiring a lawyer? When you can logically (and dispassionately) answer those questions, I will be very happy to hear it. I am by no means defending the piece of shits that shoplifted and making such a fine example of themselves for their chilrunns, but you do not murder someone for shoplifting from walmart while acting as a “loss prevention associate”.

    Exactly, if Ossifa Frenly wasn’t a LEO he would be cooling his heels in jail awaiting a grand jury for felony charges. As he is supposedly a trained professional in these situations, he should be held to an even higher standard of conduct.

  85. 85
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    VonZorch Imperial Researcher @ #:

    Exactly, if Ossifa Frenly wasn’t a LEO he would be cooling his heels in jail awaiting a grand jury for felony charges. As he is supposedly a trained professional in these situations, he should be held to an even higher standard of conduct.

    You have just hit the double standard. Of course, most CCW people would have the sense not to shoot and probably not even draw their guns.

    And as I’ve said before, pending more detailed information, this has the appearance of a bad shooting.