This is the draft list of banned guns under the new “laws”

    This is is almost a total gun ban, and is in direct contravention of the Constitution.

Rifles

(or copies or duplicates):M1 Carbine, Sturm Ruger Mini-14,AR-15,Bushmaster XM15,Armalite M15, AR-10, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1; AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47,AK-74, ARM, MAK90, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR; Olympic Arms PCR; AR70, Calico Liberty , Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU,Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point20Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle; Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800,
SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AU, Tavor, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle ( Galatz ).

Pistols (or copies or duplicates):

Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3, Olympic Arms OA, TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10, Uzi.

Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):

Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper. Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):
A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see
below), (iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.
Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rim fire rifles).
A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has:
(i) a second pistol grip, (ii) a threaded barrel,iii) a barrel shroud or (iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and
(v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

A semiautomatic shotgun with:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock,(ii) a pistol grip (see definition below),(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity
of more than 5 rounds, and (iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder. Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.
Attorney General gets carte blanche to ban guns at will: Under the proposal, the U.S. Attorney General can add any “semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General.”

This bill has to die in the Senate, or never get past the House.

Your rights, your Constitution.

DO NOT let them abridge your rights.

65 comments

  1. 1
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    I’m heading over to see my gun dealer today. I’m now looking for a good CCW pistol in .45. I am annoyed that Ruger has discontinued the one I was really looking at, the P345.

    The good news with all this is the number of law enforcement types that have announced they will refuse outright any orders to enforce these unconstitutional acts.

    Someone needs to attend/testify at one of these hearings and pointedly ask if the members of Congress are actively trying to:

    A. Start a full blown armed rebellion
    B. Get themselves killed.

    It’s obvious that these morons are not paying much attention to what is being said out in Flyover country.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Feinstein’s Anti-gun bill is readyMy Profile

  2. 2
    single stack growls and barks:

    I believe if this bill or anything like it is passed and signed into law it will be the spark that sets off an armed insurrection.

    Someone needs to attend/testify at one of these hearings and pointedly ask if the members of Congress are actively trying to:

    A. Start a full blown armed rebellion
    B. Get themselves killed.

    A. I don’t think they believe we will actually do it. If they think about it at all, they think we’re just a bunch of loudmouths full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. They’ve already written us off as just a bunch of fat, ignorant rednecks unwilling to give up our toys and our comfort that can be bought off with promises of other people’s money.
    B. They think they’re immune from any personal consequences, shielded by invincible federal force. After all, what can a bunch of dumb rednecks with rifles do against the combined might of local and state police, federal law enforcement, and the military, with their high tech arsenal?

    It’s obvious that these morons are not paying much attention to what is being said out in Flyover country.

    They’re not. They believe if they can just get this through Congress that the people will be afraid to defy the law and will just meekly submit.

  3. 3
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    Maybe if you tell them you’re an illegal alien the Gummint will give you one of those weapons. Just call yourself Enrique, or maybe Mahmud.

  4. 4
    watchyerlane growls and barks:

    Did these jerk-offs forget to read one of the documents in the fucking National Archives?????

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

  5. 5
    LC hilljohnny growls and barks:

    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. says:

    Maybe if you tell them you’re an illegal alien the Gummint will give you one of those weapons.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/24/Merry-Christmas-immigrants-Obama-Holder-push-to-loosen-alien-gun-sales-restrictions

  6. 6
    Igor, Imperial Booby growls and barks:

    Molon Labe! What the Gubmint wants to know I ain’t gonna tell ‘em. You should’ve seen my 2010 Census form, I slapped ‘em down hard.
    :em07:

  7. 7
    Orion growls and barks:

    Good.

    Let’s get the dang’d thing started so we can get it over with and clean up the mess.

    Orion

  8. 8
    LC Moriarty, Imperial Goatherd growls and barks:

    Another fraud in this bill: It purports to “exempt” some 2200 types of firearms.

    Exempt from what? A sitting Congress cannot constrain a future Congress. A surprising number of people don’t seem to know that Congress can’t pass a law to prevent a later Congress from passing laws. Congress cannot create a moratorium.

    This is a good point to make to the people who think Granddad’s old Weaver-scoped Remington 700 couldn’t end up on a ban list as a “sniper rifle.”

    Right now, the focus is on ARs, AKs and the like. If they’re successful here, they will be back. Too powerful (big bore rifles and pistols), too accurate (scoped bolties), too concealable (pocket pistols), too easy to obtain (pre-1899), too hard to trace to the scene of a crime (shotguns, revolvers), antiquated and unsafe (replica black powder guns).

    The whole thing is on the table from matchlocks forward and the Second Amendment be damned. They want another Supreme Court challenge in a couple of years, after a couple of conservatives retire, so Obama appointees can reverse Heller and McDonald.

  9. 9
    LC Spare Parts growls and barks:

    Mitcell is to busy surrendering. He might as well get a couple of pins and attach his white flag to his worthless ass.

  10. 10
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    The funny thing about camels and straw is the piece that breaks the animal’s back need not be particularly egregious… it’s just the final weight the system could bear before structurally collapsing. Physics takes over, and inertia is a real goddamned bitch.

    Your move congress critters. Makes no difference to us if you assholes pass a magazine ban, registration, or Fienstien’s Gunpocalypse. Any one of them is an open declaration of civil war, and will be dealt with appropriately.

  11. 11
  12. 12
    KArnold growls and barks:

    “An unconstitutional act is not a law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; it affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation as inoperative as though it had never been passed.” Norton v. Shelby County – 118 U.S. 425 (1886)

    Granted, it’s not like we live in America anymore, and fidelity to govern in accordance with the Constitution seems to no longer be mandatory in DC, today’s court decision on the NLRB notwithstanding. Nonetheless, this is clear infringement on the right to keep and bear arms. We’ve watched this day come for the last four years, and many would say for longer than that.

    If the Legislature surrenders and passes this, it is an unconstitutional act and must be disobeyed. If the Legislature grows a pair, becomes faithful to the Constitution, and rejects it, King Putt will declare it by Executive Order; it’s how he governs, by fiat. He circumvents the Constitution and Congress with constant and reckless disregard.

    Welcome to the Rubicon.

  13. 13
    LC Robohobo growls and barks:

    I will not comply.

    Sign The Patriot Post’s 2nd Amendment Pledge:

    “The right…to Keep and Bear Arms…”

    “The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
    John Stuart Mill

    ????? ????

  14. 14
    LC Draco growls and barks:

    Igor, Imperial Booby says:

    Molon Labe! What the Gubmint wants to know I ain’t gonna tell ‘em. You should’ve seen my 2010 Census form, I slapped ‘em down hard.

    I bet it looked A LOT like ours!!!

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:

    Inertia TRULY is a bitch…in either direction!!
    LC Draco recently posted..The new SOF: Special Operations FitnessMy Profile

  15. 15
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    OT but……

    Most everyone suspected fraud, but these numbers prove it and our government and media refuse to do anything about it.

    As each state reported their final election details, the evidence of voter fraud is astounding. Massive voter fraud has been reported in areas of OH and FL, with PA, WI and VA, all are deploying personnel to investigate election results.

    Here are just a few examples of what has surfaced with much more to come. …..

    Read More
    http://congress.org/congressorg/afanet/bio/userletter/?id=152540&letter_id=9168648586&content_dir=congressorg

  16. 16
    bruce growls and barks:

    these commies have no idea what starting a civil war would be like because nobody would be exempt;cop comes to your neighbors door to confiscate weapons,some one goes to cops door and sets them on fire then shoots the first responders.all of the national socialist would be in jeopardy ,from school board members to cops,to any local government workers.it would be a bitch worse than the civil war we fought during the revolution or the north south civil war.

  17. 17
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    LC Robohobo says:

    Sign The Patriot Post’s 2nd Amendment Pledge:

    RESIST, yes.
    Sign a pledge showing the Feds exactly where to go first? Not so Smart

  18. 18
  19. 19
    bruce growls and barks:

    every time I see the first sasquatch I want to push her face into dough and make gorilla cookies! :em05:

  20. 20
    BigDogg growls and barks:

    Gawd, I love living in Texas! The Sheriff of my county has publicly announced he will not conduct any gun registration or enforce confiscation orders from DC.

    Not that it matters to me … having sold all of my guns and ammo for cash at a gun show in December.

    Talked to a manager at Cabela’s (the gun/ammo shelves of which are noticeably bare) … he said they’re starting to see depletion in archery and camping departments.

    My guess is that Zero’s administration will be looked back upon as even more colossally stupid than Japan was in December of 1941. Underestimate the sleeping giant … please.

  21. 21
    LC Robohobo growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator @ #: Gladiator – Read the Mill quote. What are you afraid of?

    I say again, sign the pledge.

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude
    better than the animating contest of freedom,
    go home from us in peace.
    We ask not your counsels or your arms.
    Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
    May your chains set lightly upon you,
    and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

  22. 22
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Will someone please go to the Imperial Supply Office™ and tell whoever is in charge, they’re fired.

    If Bruce is the best troll they can come up with, then i want that entire department replaced. starting with that idiot McSorley. Then someone check the list of suppliers and cancel the contract.

    This the ROTT, for Gawd’s sake…We need better, more intelligent trolls than the ones they keep sending us. The Rott demands the highest, most capable trolls they can find, this guy?

    Isn’t worth the consignment note we spent on it.

    Sheesh…

  23. 23
    LC Spare Parts growls and barks:

    Be wary of signing any petitions. There is a radio add here saying “We need 400,000 more patriots to sign it” and claiming Tea Party sponsorship.
    Sure. Wanna bet? How do we know it’s not Our enemies fishing for fools to target later?
    Just a heads up.

  24. 24
    single stack growls and barks:

    cop comes to your neighbors door to confiscate weapons,some one goes to cops door and sets them on fire then shoots the first responders

    I keep reading stupidity like this whenever a blog has a thread about resisting tyranny. People who write this sort of idiocy know nothing about insurgency and guerilla warfare.
    One of the first rules of successful insurgency is you don’t alienate the people who aren’t fighting, and whose support you need. You don’t make their lives harder by blowing up infrastructure, and you don’t kill the people who help them in emergencies, like firefighters and EMTs. After all, the first responders aren’t the ones committing the crimes, and many will oppose the regime. You also don’t do anything to elicit sympathy for the regime, like killing their children. The regime will commit atrocities and blame the insurgents. Don’t make their claims legitimate.
    Not all cops will support the regime and may stay in place for legitimate reasons, such as helping the insurgency from the inside. You kill the cops doing the raiding, the politicians who sent them, and the traitors giving them information. You carefully assess all operations to determine if there is any chance of a non-combatant (the politicians and bureaucrats who support the tyranny are combatants) being hurt or killed, or their property destroyed. If there is, you abort the operation and make a new plan for another day.
    The goal of any insurgency is to destroy the tyrannical regime and restore constitutional government, not to bring about anarchy with indiscriminate murder and mayhem.

  25. 25
    Lockpick growls and barks:

    I was wondering what happened to my shopping list. I will be more careful where I leave it next time.

  26. 26
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Meanwhile in the country with Obama type gun laws…

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fists-give-way-to-firearms-20130125-2dc3l.html

    Their 3am slanging match quickly earns the ire of those in the low-rise red-brick apartments and battered fibro homes around them and one neighbour eventually opens a window and yells at the pair to keep it down. But that only angers Khaled more The 25-year-old turns his anger on the intervening neighbour and the confrontation quickly escalates to the point where Khaled pulls out a small, loaded Glock pistol. Without hesitation he cocks his gun, points it in the direction of his neighbour’s unit and fires a single shot. The bullet hits just underneath the terrified neighbour’s window.

    Khaled then gets in his girlfriend’s car and they speed off but only get as far as the M5 motorway before they are stopped by police and arrested. There are extra patrols out in Sydney’s west this January night after a spate of nine shootings in just eight days. The couple are among the first arrested and charged by Operation Spartan, a taskforce launched by police in January 2012 to curb the gun violence erupting across the city.

    Over the next 12 months, police make another 114 arrests and laid 1114 charges. But the shootings have not stopped. There has been more than one public shooting every three days in Sydney in that year and the target is increasingly becoming human life. Among the 135 recorded incidents in the past 12 months, eight men have been shot dead and dozens more injured. Khaled was recently convicted and sentenced to four years in prison for his hot-headed outburst yet he is part of a growing trend that is alarming police and community leaders in Sydney’s west, who have seen bouts of gun violence come and go.

    They say young men are now arming themselves with illegal guns to fight the most petty of disputes, driving a spike in public shootings proving difficult to keep under control. Women, small debts, domestic tensions, road rage, neighbourhood spats, minor property disputes, pride and even wayward glances have triggered shootings in Sydney in the past year.

    ”We see houses shot at in the dead of night by cowards and people are getting hurt,” the acting Police Commissioner, Nick Kaldas, told Fairfax Media this week. ”It appears to have become more acceptable to use a gun to settle a difference rather than, say, physical force or a punch. There is definitely an idiot factor in many of these shootings, but just as with shootings involving organised crime, a person is targeted for whatever reason.”

    Public shootings and drive-bys are not new to Sydney. It was the late 1990s when the city began to be exposed to ”young men doing things with guns” that they had not done before, the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research director, Don Weatherburn, says.
    Before that, shootings were predominantly carried out by big-time crime bosses or jealous jilted lovers. The frequency of the incidents fluctuated over the years as new conflicts broke out between rival organised crime groups or bikie gangs.

    Tensions between rival crime groups in the late 1990s fuelled problems around Cabramatta, while drive-bys and shootings hit another peak as gangs around Telopea Street in Punchbowl erupted and the infamous Darwiche and Razzak families fought out bloody gun battles believed to have been sparked by two marriage breakdowns, drug turf and a spat in a Bankstown cafe.
    There were further spikes in 2002 and November 2008. ”Every time it looks like the problem has been knocked on the head, or going down, it comes back up again,” Weatherburn says. ”That’s the pattern. Now we are smack bang in the middle of another rise.”

    But this time it is different. Previous shooting spates were attributed to disputes and turf wars between crime families or bikie gangs bent on settling long-running scores. Now, young men with no affiliations to either are arming themselves with illegal guns to settle feuds as insignificant as a misguided compliment or a fight at a party. The shootings have become more indiscriminate, making the task more difficult for police trying to crack down on the violence. Detectives can no longer just target two or three groups, instead they are left investigating a broader, unconnected series of incidents.

    One senior police officer says young men will even use a shooting spate as an opportunity to carry out their own, in the belief they will fly under the radar and police will link it to other incidents. Police call them the ”idiot factor”. A former assistant commissioner, Clive Small, labels them the ”would-be gangsters of the future”. ”They are trying to make a name of themselves but increasingly what we are seeing is … family feuds, individual feuds, low-level petty arguments resulting in people pulling a gun,” Small says. ”It used to all be about territory, drugs, money.” In the past year, there were shootings triggered by bickering between two housewives in a supermarket, a compliment directed towards another man’s wife and an argument in a hairdresser over Syrian politics.

    ”The community down here is very hot blooded and they don’t forget things very easily,” a south-western Sydney criminal figure says. ”There’s a lot of tit-for-tat.” Despite what the Underbelly series may have people believe, Small said it had become a phenomenon endemic to Sydney. ”If you look at Melbourne you have more of that gangster approach,” he says. ”You still have a sense of order down there and you have recognised bosses and that, I think, keeps a level of control. Today in Sydney it’s every man for themselves.”

    The young men turning to guns across south-western and western Sydney are a product of a downtrodden society, their communities say. They are often unemployed, bored, frustrated, discriminated against and highly disaffected, with little else to do.Albert Darwiche, whose family was involved in an eight-year conflict with the Razzak family that ended with five people dead and numerous houses shot at, says many of those involved in this wave of shootings are second-generation Middle Eastern men.

    Their parents’ generation lived with strict family hierarchies yet many of these men have been ”Australianised,” Darwiche says, ”and have lost the custom of listening to and respecting their parents. When conflicts arise, they prefer to sort it out themselves.”In the old days, it used to be the fathers that would sit down and talk about it but now they hide it all from their parents.”The president of the Lebanese Muslim Association, Samir Dandan, says the government has left western Sydney behind.

    It is a view shared by respected community leader Dr Jamal Rifi who says consecutive governments have allowed the area to languish with little infrastructure, ghetto-like areas and a sense of lawlessness.Yet the biggest problem, police say, is these disaffected young men can get their hands on a gun so easily. ”Whether it’s young men or others in criminal groups, if they are getting access to guns and as long as those guns are out there we are going to see shootings,” Kaldas says.

    About 12 to 14 months ago, police noticed it had become much easier to obtain an illegal handgun in Sydney than it had in the past. The Commander of the Firearms and Organised Crime Squad, Ken Finch, says, at one stage, there was even a ”glut” in illegal arms driving down prices on the black market. Hard work by his squad, including a state-wide audit of every licensed firearm owner and significant busts of importation syndicates, helped to push the price back up to about $15,000, yet he says there are still far too many illegal handguns available.

    ”Our intel, particularly during last year … indicated there are a lot of handguns out there,” Detective Superintendent Finch says. ”There seemed to be an inordinate number come on to the market very quickly.”An analysis carried out by police found handguns were used in 88 per cent of gun crimes in the past 12 months. For public-place shootings, that increased to 94 per cent.
    At the same time, of the 632 firearms stolen from legal gun owners in NSW over the past year, only 10 per cent were handguns, indicating the guns are coming onto the market by other means.Last March, three people were charged after Australian and German detectives smashed an international gun-smuggling syndicate that was being run, in part, from a suburban southern Sydney post office.

    It is alleged up to 300 Glock pistols were imported over 12 months through the postal system.A German gun dealer had been duped by the trio, who purported to be authorised gun buyers and ordered individual parts in separate packages and assembled them using instructions found on the internet.While most of the guns were recovered by police, at least seven have been used in drive-by incidents in Sydney.

    Finch says it was difficult for Customs to detect and intercept such packages containing nondescript metal, however the Sylvania Waters Post Office investigation had taught them a lot.

    ”That case was a lesson for us about how people do things and how we could be better at detecting things,” he says. ”The reality is that the internet played a large part. You can order them online and they will be dispatched overnight. Some of the weapons we were aware of in February 2012 had only been manufactured in November 2011. That’s how quickly they get here.”

    Police have continually reassured the public the shootings are targeted rather than indiscriminate hits at the public, but the damage done to the surrounding communities runs deep.

    Witnesses have been been left distressed and disturbed, much of the Middle Eastern community has been tarnished with the same brush, and families have been left to mourn the loss of their young sons, cousins and fathers.

    One poignant line from a mother said it all when Bachir ”Barry” Arja, a 28-year-old petty criminal with drug links, was shot dead outside his mother’s Punchbowl home last month.

    ”So sad we are losing all our young men,” she posted on a tribute Facebook page.

    Rifi says the community was going to ”funeral after funeral” and were fed up with what it perceived as a wider public view the shootings were not a problem as long as it remained a case of Middle Eastern men killing Middle Eastern men.

    ”Everyone else has been desensitised to our community,” he says. ”Our young people are being buried at a very young age and we have been going to funeral after funeral. It’s getting worse on a day-by-day basis.”

    There is widespread discontent within the community at police supposedly ”taking a step back”. Rifi says officers know who the troublemakers are and police need to give assurances they are out on the street not sitting behind desks and hiding behind media releases.

    ”The racial profiling demonises every law-abiding citizen in the Middle Eastern community and makes us look like criminals,” Rifi says.

    If the problem is not addressed, one underworld figure in south-western Sydney warns, the gun violence will intensify. He likens Punchbowl and Bankstown to ticking time-bombs that will ”erupt pretty soon”.

    Kaldas assures the public police are working around the clock to stop the shootings. Police seized 6900 guns last financial year and 7100 already this financial year.

    He says Operation Spartan and the anti-bikie strike forces Raptor and Kinnarra have made 2136 arrests and laid 5761 charges.

    However, he has pleaded with the community for more help.

    Police have encountered a ”wall of silence” since the shootings began, not only from the perpetrators and their families but also the community, who are scared to come forward with evidence, and victims, who are too are involved in their own illegal activities, police say.

    In stark contrast, the victim of a shooting in Auburn last Sunday co-operated with police allowing detectives to arrest three men involved within three days.

    ”My appeal is to those who know where the guns are being kept to let us know where the guns are and we can get those guns out of the hands of those who use them so recklessly,” Kaldas says.

    In Cabramatta, the police eventually won. Social disorder, racism, drug epidemics and shootings gave way to a multicultural community largely at peace. Few remnants of the crime gangs that terrorised the area remain.

    ”They’re either shot dead, in jail or have settled down and are family men trying to earn a living,” Small says.

    Senior police say all it took was one or two brave community members to come forward in Cabramatta and the whole thing unravelled.

    Similarly, the Telopea Street gun battles of 1998-2001 eventually settled when key players were imprisoned and the police clawed back with ”in-your-face policing”.

    Mohammad Dib, who spent eight years in jail for car rebirthing and his role in trying to cover up his brother Mustapha’s role in a murder on Telopea Street, told Fairfax Media late last year of his regret they were just ”young guys misled by older guys”.

    ”If I worked legitimate like I do now since day one, I’d have more money in the bank than a life of crime,” he says. ”I’ve got nothing and jail is the worst place ever. It’s not worth it.”

    Small says most men involved in gun violence in Sydney’s past eventually just grew out of it, however the cycle continues. ”It can be turned around,” he says. ”But it is always this problem with the first and second generation trying to get a quid.”

    COLLATERAL DAMAGE

    Tania, a mother of three, watched as Yehya Amoud, 27, was shot dead in a drive-by shooting in October last year. Amoud and his friend Bassam Hijazi were sitting in a silver Mercedes-Benz outside her home on Greenacre Road at 1.20pm when a man opened fire on the pair in an internal gang dispute.

    ”My kids usually play out there but we were leaving to go out that day. As we walked out the front, my neighbour started screaming. I saw smoke coming out of the bonnet of the car and assumed there was just something wrong with the car so I walked right up to him.

    ”He was kneeling down on the ground in the praying position. I grabbed him by the arm and said ‘Hey, hey, you OK? What’s wrong, you all right?’ The other guy was screaming at him to get back in the car. I’m shaking him saying ‘what’s wrong’ and then his eyes just rolled back and I saw the blood running down his shoulder and I thought ‘Oh my god, there is something more to this’. People were running at me from each direction screaming to move away so I called an ambulance. I don’t know him personally but I’ll never forget him. I’ve got a boy whose almost his age and I just think it could have been him.

    ”The police didn’t move him until 9.30pm that night in front of kids and families. These kids are traumatised enough without having to look outside their window and see a body there.

    ”I’m getting counselling and I’ve been on valium for [the] first time in my life. I shake a lot when I think about it. My little kids saw him dying in our front yard. Every time we hear a bang, we freeze and we wonder what it is. Every time the kids look at the news and hear another shooting, they look at me and say, ‘are they going to come back to us?”’

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fists-give-way-to-firearms-20130125-2dc3l.html#ixzz2J1wr2qyC

    .

  27. 27
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Well Single, if they start this, we will be smeared in the media anyways. I consider Mexico and Yugoslavia to be very instructive on the manner in which you deal with the building situation – and it’s next of kin.

    As far as I am concerned NOTHING is off the table. Absolutely nothing. The monsters mean to make slaves or corpses out of our kin. Out of our nieces and nephews, and out of our grandchildren.

    As they are willing to execute, so shall be executed against them if they are so foolish as to start this war.

    The media is a willing accomplice, and serve as active duty foot soldiers in the usurping army. Their words are every bit as deadly as rifle-fire. Once this is illustrated to them, again, using Mexico and Bosnia and the style of warfare pioneered by Bill Clinton, they may learn to be more balanced in their reporting.

    Or go extinct.

    Either option is acceptable.

    War ain’t pretty. There is no moral high ground anymore once your hands are dipped in the blood of another human begin. This “oh look at us being all nice & honorable” horseshit is how Bush and now Obama are loosing Afghanistan. It waists soldiers lives, emboldens your enemy, and accomplishes jack shit.

    Ask IKE how you win a goddamned war. Ask Sherman how you win a goddamned war. Ask MacArthur how you win a goddamned war. Those men knew and did what it took to win. See the wreckage of down town Berlin? See what was left of Japan? See what happened after the bastard Sherman raised the south from top to bottom?

    That’s winning. Anything else is a waist of life. Play to win, or don’t show up at all in my opinion.

    If they mean to have war then it’s total war. That means the people supporting them, the infrastructure supporting them, and anything else they need is on the table. That includes stunts designed to spoil moral and dispirit them.

    If you are serious, then fight to win, if you are after some noble and honorable enterprise, then just stay home, you will get yourself and others killed.

    Fighting to win is brutal, treacherous, and unfair. If it’s fair and honorable, you suck at it. They should have no chance, they should not see it coming, and the only consideration is how any operation can inflict maximum possible damage.

    Nothing is off the table.

    We shall be painted as villains regardless of what happens. Nothing we do to defend our loved ones or precious constitution will be painted in a positive light, ether here or abroad for some time. It will be some time before the media is terrified into being honest. Government atrocities and collateral damage will be blamed on the patriots. Propaganda and the institution will bend itself against us.

    And that works to our favor in the end.

    I don’t mean to sound like a dick, and I have nothing but respect for your writings. Please do not mistake my forcefulness as disrespect, it is not intended as an attack on you personally.

    But tactically and logistically speaking, taking anything off the table against someone who won’t reciprocate, is suicide. These mother-fuckers would execute millions of us without batting an eyelash. They’d shoot your sons and rape your daughters without a second thought.

    And they want nothing more than to have your helpless and disarmed while they do it.

    They and their entire support system is a monster. There is only one way to cope with monsters.

  28. 28
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    KArnold @ #12:
    Just keep in mind, since they have set precedent by ignoring Amendments 1 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 , We will be on a firm footing when we ignore Amendments 7 and 8.

  29. 29
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Addendum to 26: Don’t go into this thinking it will be fast and over quickly. The Revolution took years, the Civil War took years, WWI and WWII took years. Huge wars are awful horrible things that drag on until everybody is sick of them. Patriots and oppressors shall question their resolve, and no life will be spared loss, sorrow and destruction.

    How much is freedom worth?

    One must execute like Francis Marion.
    Not George B. McClellan.

  30. 30
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    LC Spare Parts @ #23:
    During the 1960s one of the “Civil Rights” thugs said

    If you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem.

    During the 1980s Reagan said

    Whoever is not our enemy is our friend.

    I have a clear preference here. I think that inclusiveness is better than confrontation.

  31. 31
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #26:

    For both Foreign and Domestic matters, I have always favored a policy of Reciprocity. Disproportionate Reciprocity.

  32. 32

    Who will stand? Will we have to? Will the actual Patriots in the government fight this? Are there any?
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..This is one of those Congressional newsletter thingiesMy Profile

  33. 33
    single stack growls and barks:

    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. @ #: 26

    The point of my post went right over your head and you missed it entirely.
    It isn’t about being nice, or polite, or honorable, or fair, or even taking the moral high ground. It’s about practicality. It’s about winning an insurgent campaign to destroy an authoritarian regime and restore the republic.
    An insurgency can’t win without the support of the populace at large. If it’s viewed as a murderous and destructive gang of thugs it will drive the people into the arms of the regime, who will be viewed as their protectors. That’s the problem Al Qaida and the Taliban have in countries like Yemen and Mali, among others. They have brutalized and murdered the people, destroyed the infrastructure the people depend on, killed those who try to provide medical aid and food, and imposed their own authoritarian rule on them. This has driven the people into the camp of anyone who will offer them protection.
    Making people’s lives harder by disrupting the electric grid, water systems or food distribution networks, and making them fearrful by setting off bombs is stupid and counterproductive. It turns people against the insurgency.
    A study of successful insurgencies shows that careful and surgical disruption of the enemy without harming the people is what works. When the people see government agents brutalizing their neighbors (and themselves) they’re disgusted and fearful, and resentment builds. When they then see guerrillas killing their tormentors and destroying their equipment without harming non-combatants they cheer and are often willing to help the insurgency, or at least not oppose it. Actions will overcome propaganda.
    Ike, Sherman, and MacArthur weren’t conducting insurgency campaigns, and their actions largely prove my point.
    Ike waged a conventional war against a hated occupier that was brutalizing and murdering entire populations on a scale that made them view the destruction of their infrastructure as being worth it to rid them of the monsters that had taken over their countries. He also displayed compassion and kindness for the people brutalized by the occupier and limited destruction of their property as much as he could. Granted, it wasn’t a lot, but what there was increased his support.
    Sherman was himself a vicious, bloodthirsty monster who had the resources and orders from an equally vicious monster to completely overwhelm and sweep away an already severely weakened opposition in a scorched earth campaign of utter destruction and genocide. He was a murderous psychopath who conducted his destructive campaign when it was too late to mount an effective defense and he achieved total victory. Such a campaign today would result in both he and Lincoln being condemned as war criminals for crimes against humanity.
    MacArthur fought a combined conventional and guerrilla campaign against a combined conventional and insurgent enemy that brutalized and murdered the people, again, on a scale that made them welcome and embrace the invader and whatever destruction he brought to rid them of the monsters that occupied their land. Like Ike, he too was compassionate and kind to the people he liberated.

    They and their entire support system is a monster. There is only one way to cope with monsters.

    That way is to kill the monsters, not to brutalize their victims.

  34. 34
    single stack growls and barks:

    My post #32 is in response to HempRopeAndStreetlight’s post # 26.
    I don’t know what happened with the header.

  35. 35
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Some counter-points you make I agree with Single, some I don’t. We will have to agree to disagree on those.

  36. 36
    LC Xealot growls and barks:

    Yes, if this bill, or any substantial part of it, actually passes… that will be the line in the sand for me, and a lot of us Rotties.

    The endgame of the grand experiment of 1776… is about to begin. Even if this bill fails, this time… someday it WILL pass. 5 years, maybe 10… but someday. There’s not much time left.

  37. 37
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/336869.php

    Ace is coming around on the subject of the media. He’s only suggesting harassment at the moment.

  38. 38
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    single stack @ #:

    You don’t make their lives harder by blowing up infrastructure

    We respectfully disagree. The Viet Minh/Viet Cong, the IRA, the Maquis

    the first responders aren’t the ones committing the crimes, and many will oppose the regime.

    You take the king’s coin, you’re the king’s man.

    You also don’t do anything to elicit sympathy for the regime, like killing their children.

    We respectfully disagree – again. The VIet Minh/Viet Cong. Putting people to fear for their lives often will drive them to support an insurgency to spare themselves from it. If the government can’t keep people safe, people quickly lose their willingness to support it.

    Not all cops will support the regime and may stay in place for legitimate reasons, such as helping the insurgency from the inside.

    Again, you take the king’s coin, you’re the king’s man. You may want to examine the participants in the Einsatzgruppen to see what police will do, or look at groups like the Black & Tans in Ireland. Sure, not all will support the regime but they’re wearing the regime’s uniform, and it’s kind of difficult for an insurgent force to ask each cop “So, we’re thinking about killing you now. Are you, perchance, a supporter of ours – or at least something of a fellow-traveller, or do you serve the regime?. If the former, thanks for all your help; if the latter, bit of rum luck, old boy. Best present your face for shooting, now. There’s a good chap.” And yeah, while some cops might resist, that’s not the way to bet. I mean, it’s amazing to contemplate, for example, exactly how the FBI was able to take Waco and Ruby Ridge with all of their colleagues busy resisting. It’s pretty mind boggling to guess how anyone died or suffered in places like Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Tuol Sleng, Omerska, Katyn, or the Gulags, what with all that resisting going on. Maybe that was it – there was so much widespread resistance that it effectively cancelled itself out, and those few running-dog lackey jackbooted thug Davids who stayed loyal to the regime were able crush the Goliath of freedom’s adherents. Snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, they did!

    You carefully assess all operations to determine if there is any chance of a non-combatant (the politicians and bureaucrats who support the tyranny are combatants) being hurt or killed, or their property destroyed. If there is, you abort the operation and make a new plan for another day.

    And then you lose, very, very badly. Avoiding needlessly killing innocents is one thing – blowing up a nursing home full of Alzheimer’s patients gets you nothing, for example. If a few innocents happen to get caught in the crossfire, well…shit happens, and they are now heroic martyrs for the cause/selfless patriots who would have willingly accepted their fates to help strike a blow against tyranny. (That’s why successful groups like the Bolsheviks, Viet Cong, and IRA must again, respectfully disagree.) Not arguing that any of them are nice guys, just pointing out that they were successful.

    The goal of any insurgency is to destroy the tyrannical regime and restore constitutional government, not to bring about anarchy with indiscriminate murder and mayhem.

    Hey, you know what works wonders for bringing down tyrannical regimes? Anarchy and mayhem. When governments fail to control those things, they lose legitimacy. Once they lose legitmacy, they lose support, and then they lose their heads.

    There’s a reason that An Insurrectionist’s Handbook: Tactics and Strategies for the Hardcore Guerrilla by John Douglas, 9th Marquess of Queensberry has not enjoyed what one would call record-breaking sales. Insurrections are nasty, brutish things, doubly so if they want to win. Hence, they should not be undertaken lightly.

  39. 39
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. @ #:

    Just keep in mind, since they have set precedent by ignoring Amendments 1 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10

    Yeah, but everyone knows that the 3rd Amendment has always been the canary in the coalmine. :em01:

  40. 40
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    If you missed this, here’s a reminder.

    September 20, 2012
    Why does Homeland Security need 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition?
    Lee DeCovnick

    The Department of Homeland Security has purchased 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition- that is not a typo — during the last six months. This includes 450 million rounds of .40 hollow point, 200 million rounds of .223 rifle ammunition, and 176,000 rounds of .308 168-grain hollow point boat tail (HPBT) that is used almost exclusively as ammo for sniper rifles.

    From beforeitsnews.com we read:

    Why is everyone all up in arms about the recent purchase by Homeland security of 1.4 Billion rounds of ammunition?

    Our undeclared Foreign War in Iraq Consumes about 70,000,000 (70 Million) Rounds of Ammunition Each Year, which would take about 20 years to consume 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition ordered by the Department of Homeland Security alone, not including all the ammunition ordered by the weather service, Social Security, etc! 20 Years To Use All 1.4 Billion Rounds Of This Ammo?

    Is the Department of Homeland security to protect us from foreign terrorists, or to protect the central government from the American people?

    Read the entire chilling article. Avoid any political discussions about Obama’s infamous 2008 quote, lest your blood pressure dangerously rise:

    “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

    Let’s put these DHS numbers in perspective. An Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer displaces (weighs) 9,300 tons. 1.4 billion rounds weigh around 28,000 tons, three destroyers’ worth, so to speak. It takes over 1,200 18-wheel trucks to move that much ammunition. That’s the equivalent to a line of single trailer trucks, parked end to end, almost 14 miles long.

    There are 314 million Americans, men, women and children living in the United States this morning. This year alone, DHS has purchased four rounds for each and every American. We don’t know how much more ammo the DHS may have accumulated during the preceding 36 months of the Obama Administration. This enormous DHS stockpile supplements the ammunition already held by the US Armed Forces, the National Guard, hundreds of local and state police departments, plus other Federal law enforcement agencies such as the ATF, Secret Service, FBI, TSA and the US Marshals Service.

    Why did DHS purchase 28,000 tons of ammunition? Why did DHS purchase almost half a billion rounds of hollow point ammunition, banned by the Hague Convention of 1899 for use in international warfare, that is carefully designed to kill it intended targets? Americans have no good answers to these questions since the DHS is now refusing to respond to media inquires on the subject.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/09/why_does_homeland_security_need_14_billion_rounds_of_ammunition.html#ixzz2J4grieNc
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    I remember hearing about this last fall. They’re planning something with that HUGE order of hollow point bullets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT?

    I still think they HOPE we will rise up: they’re just salivating for an excuse to round up and shoot people.

  41. 41
    single stack growls and barks:

    Fa Cube Itches @ #: 37

    Every insurgent group you listed was worse than the regimes they fought. They were unremittingly evil and left their societies less free than when they started.
    The American Revolution is nearly unique in human history because it’s one of the few that didn’t turn out worse than the regime it ended, and it brought about a free society. This is precisely because the rebels didn’t embrace evil and commit to the kind of campaign of murder and mayhem that you think is necessary for success. The war was brutal and bloody but the Americans didn’t harbor the kind of callous disregard for their countrymen that you display in your post. Even though a significant portion of the populace supported the king (more than supported the revolution) the rebels didn’t brutalize them.
    If there is another revolution and you emulate the Bosheviks, Viet Cong, and IRA (all of whom fought to bring about a communist society) you will be a criminal just like those you copy, and you will make a bad situation worse.
    I’m going to emulate the founders of the freest, most prosperous society that has ever existed. In addition to fighting the regime I’ll be hunting men like you.

    If a few innocents happen to get caught in the crossfire, well…shit happens, and they are now heroic martyrs for the cause/selfless patriots who would have willingly accepted their fates to help strike a blow against tyranny.

    Do you have any concept of how horrifically evil that statement is? Uncle Joe couldn’t have said it better himself. Well… he actually did say it.

  42. 42
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    This is precisely because the rebels didn’t embrace evil and commit to the kind of campaign of murder and mayhem that you think is necessary for success.

    The Swamp Fox disagrees with you. As far as the British were concerned, the man was Osama Bin Laden.

    Innocents always die in war. Even when you are the good guys. That’s why war is the last possible resort, and not to be entered in lightly. And guess what? The patriot movement will be blamed for all of em – even the ones the feds gun down. Even falsse flags. That’s what happens when they control the media.

    Think they won’t? I got over 200 dead Mexican that would disagree with that assumption.

    And equivocations to the the Gooks I don’t much appreciate. I have some nasty reminders of them that I will feel every morning when I get up until my the day heart finally stops ticking. Their tenacity is to be admired. Some of their tactics emulated. Their ideals were shit.

    Of those three points, I am hopeful you can see why we stand out from them.

    They sought to institute the dreams of Marx, Engels, and Trotsky.
    We seek to re-institute the dreams of Franklin, Jefferson, and Washington.

    This will be 4th generation warfare at it’s worst. This will be hell – horrible, more horrible than you can imagine, because it will be happening HERE. They will pursue total war against the patriot cause. We’d be fools to take anything off the table.

    Anything.

    I am not confident that we can rebuild what was once it’s torn apart. It’s a different time, and a good many millions of people like to be serfs and sheep.

    As I’ve said before – I have zero doubt that we can’t tear down the government.

    That’s the easy part.

    The hard part is not having hell on earth be the victory prize.

  43. 43
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    LC Spare Parts says:

    Be wary of signing any petitions. There is a radio add here saying “We need 400,000 more patriots to sign it” and claiming Tea Party sponsorship.
    Sure. Wanna bet? How do we know it’s not Our enemies fishing for fools to target later?
    Just a heads up.

    MY POINT EXACTLY

  44. 44
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    Fa Cube Itches @ #38:
    I didn’t inclue Number 3 because I am not aware that it has yet been specifically violated … Yet!
    And at this point it may be time to not worry so much about the canary, when we see bunches of dead ducks, some mocking birds gasping for air, and even a few wheezing eagles.
    My main point is that with the Constitution filleted, both main body and Amendments, pettifogging ovefr niceties in the treatment of the TWANLOC would seem totally inappropriate. Restrain yourself only with the bounds of your creativity.
    I’ve always thought the termini of the Egyptian Shajar ad-Durr and of English Edward II were fitting, colorful, and exemplary.
    Perhaps the Lord of the Flies could be pummeled to death with fly swatters? :em05:

  45. 45
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    LC Spare Parts says:

    Be wary of signing any petitions. There is a radio add here saying “We need 400,000 more patriots to sign it” and claiming Tea Party sponsorship.
    Sure. Wanna bet? How do we know it’s not Our enemies fishing for fools to target later?
    Just a heads up.

    MY POINT EXACTLY
    LC Robohobo says:

    LC Gladiator @ #: Gladiator – Read the Mill quote. What are you afraid of?
    I say again, sign the pledge.
    “If ye love wealth better than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude
    better than the animating contest of freedom,
    go home from us in peace.
    We ask not your counsels or your arms.
    Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
    May your chains set lightly upon you,
    and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

    see #22

  46. 46
    redc1c4 growls and barks:

    having carefully examined the list and considered the meager & motley assemblage that i have access to, i am happy to say that i don’t own a single weapon on it, or that might be later added to it.

    in fact, i doubt if anyone reading this does either.

    i still don’t support passing it, but if they ram it down our throats, it won’t effect me at all…

  47. 47
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    Don’t worry red. They will get around to all of them sooner rather than later.

    As others have said…

    “Dangerous sniper rifles.”
    “Lethal automatic pistols.”
    “Easily concealable revolvers.”
    “Antiquated and dangerous black powder rifles.”

    Their goal is to seize all of them. And they will if they ain’t stopped.

  48. 48

    Possibly the simplest start would be at the edges of the cities. Check the map of red/blue. Block them off and burn them down.
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Found this over at Before It’s NewsMy Profile

  49. 49
    LC HJ Caveman82952 growls and barks:

    Must we learn the same lesson? For those blank faced idiots and giddy elves having foisted this menace on us I share no compassion, mercy or pity. Lenin dealt with his useful idiots quite efficiently after their purpose was served. We now have a large apathetic, ignorant populace…by design. Many years ago I took a stroll through downtown Karachi, Pakistan, the asshole of the earth. A repressive society, while not strictly communist. And you know what? They, soldiers and police, had plenty of guns………..the people had none. Socialism/communism carries within itself the seeds of its own destruction. But the collaterial damage is horrendous and horrifying.
    Must we learn the same mistake?

  50. 50
    redc1c4 growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:
    i can see someone missed my invisible /sarc tag… it’s my default setting. :-)

  51. 51
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    redc1c4 @ #:

    Indeed I did.

    :em05:

  52. 52
    Fa Cube Itches growls and barks:

    single stack @ #:

    Every insurgent group you listed was worse than the regimes they fought. They were unremittingly evil and left their societies less free than when they started.

    Irrelevant – they won. I specifically said that I wasn’t arguing that they were nice, only effective.

    And the IRA wasn’t particularly bad, either. The successor group in the North was nastier, but to call the IRA “unremittingly evil” is utterly false. Go ’round a pub in the R.O.I. and call Michael Collins “unremittingly evil”. Have some paramedics and a dentist standing by, though. You’ll need them. To say that the Republic of Ireland was “less free” than it was under the British Crown is something of a stretch, too.

    “The American Revolution is nearly unique in human history because it’s one of the few that didn’t turn out worse than the regime it ended, and it brought about a free society”

    Unless, of course, you were black, or an Indian, or a Loyalist forced to flee in the face of militia violence. They might disagree.

    This is precisely because the rebels didn’t embrace evil and commit to the kind of campaign of murder and mayhem that you think is necessary for success. The war was brutal and bloody but the Americans didn’t harbor the kind of callous disregard for their countrymen that you display in your post.

    and

    Even though a significant portion of the populace supported the king (more than supported the revolution) the rebels didn’t brutalize them.

    Wow, is that wrong. You might want to do some more reading about the Revolution, especially as fought in the South. Might also want to look into what the Sons of Liberty did to people who attracted their attention.

    Bosheviks, Viet Cong, and IRA (all of whom fought to bring about a communist society)

    Again, irrelevant – they won. My point was that they were effective. And the IRA found to bring about a communist society? Really? The R.O.I. is a communist nation? That would be news to them. You’re pretty clearly confusing the IRA with the Provos (who were also pretty successful).

    I’m going to emulate the founders of the freest, most prosperous society that has ever existed. In addition to fighting the regime I’ll be hunting men like you.

    So, you’ll be burning the homes of those who don’t side with you, murdering those who don’t side with you, appropriating the property of those who don’t agree with you, setting up a government that accepts race-based slavery, and genociding everyone of certain racial groups, then? Well aren’t you just on the side of the angels.

    As far as hunting me, get in line. I live in an ultraviolet city, in a deep blue county, in a deep blue state. If it comes to civil war in the US, my future’s not much more than Babi Yar/Rumbuli. C’est la guerre and all that.

    “If a few innocents happen to get caught in the crossfire, well…shit happens, and they are now heroic martyrs for the cause/selfless patriots who would have willingly accepted their fates to help strike a blow against tyranny.”

    Do you have any concept of how horrifically evil that statement is?

    Yes, I do. It’s also the by-word of pretty much every single insurrection, ever. That includes our own. Their goal is to win, not to play nicely. Want to reduce the suffering of the civilian populace? Win the damned war.

    You may want to actually study up on a few insurrections and civil wars. Hell, just look at the Rwandan civil war (Kagame’s forces were pretty civil for African rebels) and the Croatian/Bosnian wars (the Croats and Bosniaks were pretty brutal, but less so than the Serbs). Notice that the Confederates never did anything like Sherman’s March, Sheridan’s burning of the Shenandoah Valley, or the Burnt District in Missouri (the only thing that even came close was Quantrill’s Raid on Lawrence). You’ll also notice that they lost.

    Again, there’s a difference between *needlessly* harming innocents and simply being hard-hearted. It’s the difference between the liquidation of Lidice and the bombing of Caen, for example.

  53. 53
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    LC cmblake6:

    Possibly the simplest start would be at the edges of the cities. Check the map of red/blue. Block them off and burn them down.

    No need to burn. Some of the inhabitants will no doubt do that themselves.

    Regarding atrocities in our Revolutionary & Four Years’ Wars: excepting the scorched-earth campaigners’ acts, these seem to be the work of irregulars who were happy under cover of war to settle scores with neighbors.

  54. 54
    LC Xealot growls and barks:

    Any second civil war will be brutal and violent, and involve a great deal of as symmetric warfare. It would, more than likely, be the work of small bands and lone wolf individuals rather than any kind of concerted militia-level action. But there would be a lot of it, and more than likely, it would involve government and media targets. If it went on long enough, the Federal reaction to the “war” would probably split the country and could involve complete balkanization of the nation. It would go something like “these right wing terrorists and their guns…” And then they would use these events to confiscate all guns. This would, of course, encourage MORE such activity, and the whole thing would devolve from there. The American economy would collapse under the weight of it, and the military, underfunded, would vastly shrink in size and scope. What would be left would be islands of Federal authority, mostly in the northeast and the west coast, maybe some islands of state-level authority, mostly in the flyover states and parts of the south, with the rest devolving into general stupidity. It wouldn’t be pretty.

    I don’t think you can have the same kind of revolution singlestack and fa cube itches are discussing in a modern, militarized western country. Open conflict and militia activity could be almost immediately suppressed. The only way that would be possible is if many states seceded at the same time and somehow took a chunk of the military with them. I don’t see that as particularly likely. No, this would be a gradual affair, brought on by years of activity and government suppression efforts.

    I hope I’m wrong.

  55. 55
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC Xealot @ #:

    I hope I’m wrong.

    You aren’t and it’s starting.
    :em06:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Dolphin asks for help from peopleMy Profile

  56. 56
    LC Draco growls and barks:

    As a bit of advice DOWNLOAD FM 3-24 (COIN) while you can. It will be the base line for what’s coming here.

    As a side note, I actually had input in the writing and have taught COIN for years. As well as using the TTPs (Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures) in Iraq.
    LC Draco recently posted..The new SOF: Special Operations FitnessMy Profile

  57. 57
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    http://getmessmerized.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/from-rabble-such-as-this-rise-a-people-whom-defy-kings/

    Kid came outta nowhere but that’s quite an article.

  58. 58
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    HempRopeAndStreetlight @ #:

    Kid came outta nowhere but that’s quite an article.

    Well, the news coming out of New York is that the gun owners are planning NOT to register their guns, and are flat out challenging Cuomo.
    :em07:

    Provided nothing goes violent there, I’m guessing Cuomo may get blown out electorally in 2014 along with most of the morons in Albany. The people are PISSED!
    :em08:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Civil Disobedience in New YorkMy Profile

  59. 59
    HempRopeAndStreetlight growls and barks:

    I can’t imagine they are turning their police goons into an army and don’t intend the use them as such.

    But I’d be happy to be wrong.

  60. 60
    BigDogg growls and barks:

    What do you think of this?
    Martial Law?

    I have friends in the Houston and Miami areas that have verified recent Black Helicopter operations occurring there.

  61. 61
    LC LOBO growls and barks:

    BigDogg @ #:
    Add Minneapolis to the list, and I’m hearing from some back “home” that it also was going on in St. Louis.


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  1. This is one of those Congressional newsletter thingies « Cmblake6's Weblog
  2. Linkage… (avoid folly, folks)
  3. The Text of “The Intolerable Act”
  4. Feinstein’s Anti-gun bill is ready « Musings of the Angry Webmaster