Clear Cut Case of Murder

Yep, all those pundits screaming that the Sanford PD video of Zimmerman being brought into the station showed with absolute certainty that Zimmerman was a cold blooded murderer who had not been battered at all and shot Martin for the crime of wearing a hoody while black, guess they were right after all.

Clearly there was no struggle, none at all. Absolutely no cause for self defense here, no sirrree. I guess those of us who said we should wait for all the evidence ARE just racist idiots after all and we should just shut up and follow the script. My sincere apologies to the race hustlers and media whores. Next time I won’t question the narrative and just blindly swallow whatever you say. No more questioning your absolute truth or wanting actual…uhm what’s the word,..oh yeah, evidence.

I’ll go self-flagellate now.

53 comments

  1. 1
    Cactus Jack growls and barks:

    When asked for a comment on the latest update, Presidente Soetero tearfully exclaimed”If I had a dog, he’d look just like a cheeseburger”.

  2. 2
    ohio right wing nut growls and barks:

    Ozero’s new book..”How to Wok your dog and other culinary treats”

  3. 3
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    Waiting for DJ to admit that he was wrong…wait…is that crickets I hear?

  4. 4

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    Waiting for DJ to admit that he was wrong…wait…is that crickets I hear?

    Deej and a whole shitpot of others.
    LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. recently posted..Clear Cut Case of MurderMy Profile

  5. 5
    Secondmouse growls and barks:

    It would be nice to think that the plain evidence would play some role in this drama, but early attempts to do so by Sanford PD have been overtaken by media-driven hysteria, and history has proven that the facts do not necessary matter in circumstances like these (O.J., anybody?). We shall see.

    My hope is that this case will shine a bright light on the huge and growing gap between the claims made by the race pimps and liberal apologists and the actual, factual reality regarding the state of race relations and racial tension in this country. The progressive architects of the new ‘level playing field’ in America have succeeded instead in constructing a true dystopia, and have forwarded the gargantuan bill for its maintenance to unborn taxpayers. One of the worst offenses committed in this process has been the gradual creation of a multi-generational permanent underclass of urban inner-city African-Americans, all convinced that their oppressors are those who would stand ready to offer a hand up, if not a hand out.

  6. 6
    Bitter Clinger growls and barks:

    But…but…but…THEY said GZ was unharmed. THEY said you couldn’t see any injuries in the video. THEY said he was following Trayvon because he was black…

    Isn’t that all the proof any GOOD, POLITICALLY CORRECT, WHITE GUILT HAVING person should need? :em04:

    Fuck ‘em :em08:

  7. 7
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Doesn’t matter. What matters is the wanted end result. They knew this was a lame case when they decided to make a issue of it 3 weeks after the fact. Florida is a “battleground” state right? They are going to fiddle fuck around and deliver a not guilty verdict just in time to rile the “base” to vote team socialist with the attendant riot as a good diversion.

  8. 8
    Cannon Fodder growls and barks:

    I showed that picture to my wife earlier today and she just replied that it could possibly be manufactured or something. I expect the or something part could mean that it could be someone else’s head, since you can’t see a face. Not that she has an interest in this story any more than anything else that is going on in the world. She has proven to be a shining example of today’s youth. It isn’t directly effecting her life now, so she doesn’t want to hear about it. Burns my ass! :em08:

  9. 9
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    I’ve cut off all liberal friends – it’s not a productive use of time to argue with people who don’t understand common sense.

  10. 10
    DJ Allyn -- Tired Soul growls and barks:

    I shave my head every other day. Every now and then I have nicked myself and bled about as much as what you see in that photo. They bleed fast and they clean up just as fast and easy. But they can tend to look more serious than what they really are.

    Zimmerman barely got a road rash there. I am not seeing anything “life threatening” yet.

    Now before y’all start piling on, lemme finish first.

    I watched the bail hearing live this morning before being discharged, and came away with the following thoughts…

    We still don’t know ALL of the facts. (or at least the facts that the State is using) From the hearing, the defense doesn’t have all of them either, and the state so much as said so.

    The defense did what I would have expected them to do — attack the probable cause by first trying to cast doubt on the evidence and mostly by fishing for additional information.

    I do think we can finally put to rest the code names for “Skittles” and “Tea” now, along with the speculation that Trayvon never actually went to the 7-Eleven to purchase a bag of Skittles and a bottle of Arizona Iced Tea. The State witness, under oath came out with the fact that they have video of Trayvon entering the store, and paying cash for those two items, along with the relevant time stamp.

    Of course this doesn’t prove that George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon, it only shows that Trayvon had left his father’s house to go to the store and was heading back home. No drug dealing thugish gangster shit, just a guy walking to and from a store wearing a hoodie and looking “suspicious”.

    I don’t think that there is really any dispute as to any of the fact that Trayvon Martin left his house to go to the store, where he bought candy and a drink and headed home. i am sure that the defense would stipulate to that much.

    What happened during the trip home, some seventy yards from his father’s house is where the dispute is. We STILL don’t know, and we aren’t likely to know until after the Discovery hearing, if then. Shortly after that hearing, it is expected that the defense will make its motion to dismiss based on Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” statute. It will likely be then when we get a better idea what it is that the State is using for evidence.

    Apparently, there is something that the state feels is inconsistent with what George Zimmerman has said about what happened. THAT is what I am waiting to hear about. The detective on the stand almost started to say something at one point but caught himself. The attorney wasn’t wanting to hear whatever it was either, because he quickly interrupted with another tact.

    It may be, that by the time this all comes out, that it really doesn’t amount to all that much after all, but I kinda doubt that is the case. After all, no prosecutor is going to bring a case if they think that they don’t have even a chance of winning it. Especially something this controversial. No, the state thinks it has something that it can win on.

    That said, if I were to just go with the probable cause — I would still say fifty-fifty on it going either way — and that isn’t factoring in the Stand Your Ground law. From what I’ve read about the defense attorney and the state attorney, as well as the judge, all three are able and worthy experts. Whatever the outcome, it will not be a rubber stamped, cookie-cutter outcome. It will be well thought out and executed on all sides.

    I am not upset that Zimmerman got bail. Innocent until proven guilty. I do think that it was a good thing that he got up on the stand today and offered his condolences to the Martin family, although I did notice that he didn’t say he was sorry for killing Trayvon, only that he was sorry for the family’s loss. But if he was expecting acceptance, he was sadly mistaken.

    A lot has been made about the Martin family’s response (through their attorney) about how they weren’t accepting his apology. That’s the funny thing about apologies — you can offer them, but you can’t expect them to be accepted. If I were the Martin family I know that I couldn’t have accepted the apology either. (I have some experience at this) So I understand where THEY are coming from. It is going to take them a long time to heal enough to get to the point where they may consider accepting something like that. I can tell you that it has been almost a year for me, and I am still no where near that point myself.

    I did come away from this hearing with a sense of sadness for not only Trayvon, but for George as well. I don’t think that George is some kind of monster in all of this. I think it is a case of something getting way out of hand and ended up with a tragic outcome. None of this had to happen.
    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul recently posted..Polly ~ NirvanaMy Profile

  11. 11
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Zimmerman barely got a road rash there. I am not seeing anything “life threatening” yet.

    NO, Deej, you are WAY WRONG here.

    As a former emergency services officer, as the husband of a qualified nurse, as a former field medical officer with over 3000 hrs in the field, I will tell you the following,: and this is GOSPEL

    There is NO SUCH THING as a minor head wound

    Ask your doctor. He will tell you the same.

    That is NOT “road rash”, and may I also remind you that a HUGE number of head injury cases that lead to debilitating consequences or death are “silent killers” that go undetected because “they dont seem life threatening”

    Those lacerations, and the size of the damage, may indicate head trauma causative of a slew of injuries, some of which are:

    Subdural haemotoma
    Concussion and intracranial bleed
    Dural tear
    Skull fracture with subdural clots
    Coning (look it up, it’s real)
    Dural bleed (even minor is life threatening)
    Contracoup injury (where the brain is smashed forward, and then backwards inside the cranial space)
    TIA’s
    Cerebrovascular accidents either left or right side

    He has clearly been assaulted, those injuries are to the back of the head which makes it worse, and the location of those injuries, unless he had his back turned to the assailant, show clearly he was on his back when assaulted, which means that whoever attacked him was in front of him, smashing his head against a hard surface.

    I speak from experience when i tell you that even what appears to be a minor accident or injury, can have far reaching consequences, potentially, a lot of them fatal.

    And any EMT, doctor or other medical officer will bear me out.

  12. 12
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    FREE ZIMMERMAN!

    Shit, if the leftwads can march around with “FREE MUMIA!” signs for a stinking cop-killer who shot that poor policeman several times IN THE BACK, then we need to get rockin’ and rollin’ with the Free Zimmerman! signs and the Zimmerman Defense Fund.

  13. 13
    LC Ogrrre growls and barks:

    DJ, according to Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws, and even self defense laws, you don’t have to be mortally injured in order to use lethal force to defend yourself. You only have to be in fear of your life, or in fear of receiving great bodily harm. If Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, bashing his head against the ground, I can quite well imagine Zimmerman was in fear of his life, therefore Zimmerman’s use of deadly force was justified.

  14. 14
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Dj if you think that there is any aspect of this “case” that isn’t political theater you are being delusional. First it was “we just want to see him arrested” cept he had already been arrested. Then it was “we want to see him charged.” Cept it was the local DA that choose not to pursue. Allow me to remind you of doctored tapes to try to portray Z as being racially motivated. Of videos “where no injuries are seen” while disregarding the police report stating he was treated on the scene. Disregard the eyewitness who reported seeing Travon on top of Z. And lets just minimize this latest image as having no impact because you’ve “niked yourself worse in the shower” this case is a joke and a travesty on so many levels its insane. What evidence is the prosc going to submit? The girlfriends version? Unless she recorded conversation, how is it going to meet the definition of the charge and the beyond a reasonable doubt standard? Took the racebaiters three weeks until they decided they had a interest in this case, and how interesting there is this “controvertial” stand your ground law in the background. Fucking political theater in the courtroom ginned up by this paticipatory admin and utterly corrupted media

  15. 15
    LC FORGER - Monster Hunter growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    And any EMT, doctor or other medical officer will bear me out.

    As a former Paramedic with a decade of experience in the streets of St. Louis and Memphis, and an A+ in Anatomy and Physiology, I can verify that what LCBrendan sez is gospel.

    I don’t know how many stories I’ve heard of someone getting a “minor” bump on the head, going to bed and waking up dead from cerebral bleeding.

    Your brain is NOT mounted solidly in your skull. It floats in the middle of a lubricating/cushioning layer of fluid. And when your skull rapidly changes direction, your brain takes a bit to catch up, and most times catches up after bouncing off the inside of your skull, and then smacking the other side as well. Usually more than once.

    So one impact to the skull can result in 2 or 3 impacts to your brain. And ANY impact to your brain is bad juju.

    So if a hoodie wearing choir boy who is just fetching a bag of skillets for his little brother is smacking your Brain Housing Group on the concrete sidewalk, you’d best put a stop to that shit A.S.A.P. any way you can otherwise it’s gonna be YOUR family grieving.

    I don’t know about you, but I don’t wanna put my family thru that.

  16. 16
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    Tallulah says:

    we need to get rockin’ and rollin’ with the Free Zimmerman! signs and the Zimmerman Defense Fund.

    http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/

  17. 17
    Secondmouse growls and barks:

    The left will drive the narrative on this inconvenient photograph toward the issue of whether or not this is ‘enough injury’ to warrant the use of deadly force. Much like the divorce attorney who asks, “when was the last time you beat your wife?”, this is an artful dodge.

    The real issue here is that this photograph corroborates Zimmerman’s version of events. And in Zimmerman’s version, his actions were taken defensively, not aggressively. This is the ‘smoking gun’ in this case, and its existence means that the liberal narrative is wrong. This is not a ‘hate crime’ or the first wave of a violent attack on the favorite progressive pet minority and indentured voting bloc, it is the symptom of a cultural disease that has created a racial identity for crime in our nation and driven race relations to a potential breaking point.

  18. 18
    bloodyspartan growls and barks:

    Why do you waste time with the Troll Dj, is his music that Important
    .
    Only a scumbag lib, would look at someones injuries and not being there decide how much it hurt and how much his life is worth.

    Un fucking Believable

  19. 19
    bloodyspartan growls and barks:

    Please feel free to tell DJ where I live if he want’s to stop by and discuss his and my worth.

  20. 20
    DJ Allyn -- Tired Soul growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    There is NO SUCH THING as a minor head wound

    From the look of it, these are scratches, not “wounds”. If they were wounds, he would have gone to the hospital instead of simply getting cleaned up and transported to the police station in fifty minutes like he was. The cops would have insisted he go to the hospital first if they were considered to be more than scratches. No way they would have accepted that kind of liability.

    Since none of us were there to witness any of this, we just have to assume that the actual professionals on the scene knew enough about what they were doing to make a determination that Zimmerman’s injuries were not “life threatening”.

    This is just common sense.

    Yes, blood looks serious. But there really isn’t all that much of it there. Like I said, I’ve gotten that much nicking myself while shaving my head.

    I only mentioned it to bring things into perspective.

    LCBrendan says:

    Those lacerations, and the size of the damage, may indicate head trauma causative of a slew of injuries, some of which are:

    You forgot “baby shaking”, as Zimmerman’s former crack legal team tried to postulate.

    The key word you used was “may”. This is why they called an aid unit to look at him. He apparently went to see his own doctor a day or two after the incident, and save for a possible broken nose, he suffered no serious life threatening injuries. If he had, you can bet that his medical reports describing his near death injuries would have been plastered all over the place by now.

    Now let me throw this bone for you…

    Legally, it really doesn’t matter how serious (or not serious) Zimmerman’s injuries are/were. That isn’t the yardstick used to determine whether self defense is warranted. Zimmerman only has to BELIEVE that his life was in jeopardy. In other words, the case pivots on Zimmerman’s state of mind, not the physical injury. The state has to prove that Zimmerman WASN’T in fear for his life at the moment he pulled the trigger.

    Go ahead, read that again, if you didn’t catch what I am saying — I’ll wait.

    The question is — and continues to be — how the state is going to prove that. This is where their theory of “inconsistency” comes in, and it will be interesting to find out what that is.

    Now I know that many people here have already made their minds up on this. I really haven’t. I lean in the direction where Zimmerman may be guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but I am not married to that position. The reason I lean that direction is simple: If George Zimmerman had never gotten out of his vehicle, none of this would have happened. He wouldn’t have a bloody head and a broken nose, and Trayvon would have simply gone home with his candy and iced tea to watch the second half of the ball game and we would never have heard of either one of them.

    LC Ogrrre says:

    DJ, according to Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine laws, and even self defense laws, you don’t have to be mortally injured in order to use lethal force to defend yourself.

    I just said that to a certain extent. The question arises as to who is defending and who is offending. Does this mean I can stick a gun in your face to rob you, have you push me and I can then shoot you in “self defense”?

    Can I find out that my wife is sleeping with another man in my bed, and I wait until it happens again so that I can come home and shoot him as an “intruder”? After all, I only need to claim that I feared for my life in both cases.

    These are legitimate questions about the Stand Your Ground law and Castle Doctrines. Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand the NEED for a Stand Your Ground law. The idea was borne out of the car jacking and ATM robberies in Miami. The purpose was solid — people have a right to defend themselves and their property. MY problem is that the way the current law is written, it also has the potential to allow people to be offensive and use the law to cover them.

    I think that the argument in the Zimmerman/Martin incident is WHEN did the confrontation start, and WHO initiated it. Did it start when Zimmerman made an affirmative decision to follow Martin, or did it start when the two met face-to-face on the dog run? Who was the first to “fear” for their safety, and does it matter? Did Trayvon deserve to use the Stand Your Ground law to defend himself from a guy who was following him? Did George deserve to use the same Stand Your Ground law to defend himself once Trayvon started defending Trayvon? Does the guy with the most lethal weapon win?

    I honestly can’t say right now. I want to hear the entire case. I want to hear the legal theories of BOTH sides. BOTH sides deserve to be heard.

    Like I said, I may lean in a certain direction on this, but I am FAR from making my mind up about it. On a linear scale of between 1 and 100, with 1 being Zimmerman and 100 being Martin, I am about a 55-60 right now, and that is only because I am purposely ignoring everything that isn’t considered officially released evidence from either side. Right now, the state has the advantage only because they’ve released more evidence than the defense.

    I am ignoring third party opinions also, just as you should ignore my opinion and everyone else’s. Focus only on what is going before the court, because that is the ONLY opinion that matters at the end of the day — the Court’s opinion.

    bloodyspartan says:

    Please feel free to tell DJ where I live if he want’s to stop by and discuss his and my worth.

    Why would I care? Besides, I am not currently in any condition to be traveling.
    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul recently posted..Polly ~ NirvanaMy Profile

  21. 21
    Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan growls and barks:

    Interesting discussion.
    It may be the unpopular opinion, but I also don’t see this photo as proof that Zimmerman had reasonable fear for his life. I’m not discounting folks with medical experience who say that there is no head injury that is minor, but I also have nicked my scalp and bled that much or more.

    This photo does prove to me, is that this case is more than “an innocent black child gets gunned down by a racist” Zimmerman may very well have had reason to fear for his life. I’m waiting till the discovery hearing to make that call for myself, because I’m still not completely comfortable with the way he handled things. Or maybe I should say I’m not completely comfortable with what has been reported. As more myths are dispelled or damning facts are presented, things will clear up in my mind.

    Where I disagree with DJ is I don’t have a problem believing that a DA would bring charges in a chase they knew they could or should not win just to save face, or to score points with voters. I’ve seen to many first hand accounts of people who were charged or not charged to appease local pressure, the law be damned. This is a national story, with unbelievable pressure…….. so no I don’t trust the charges.

  22. 22

    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul says:

    although I did notice that he didn’t say he was sorry for killing Trayvon, only that he was sorry for the family’s loss. But if he was expecting acceptance, he was sadly mistaken.

    c’mon Deej…..that’s self incrimination. You didn’t really expect that did you?

  23. 23
    LC MuscleDaddy growls and barks:

    I don’t get the obsession w/the ‘Stand Your Ground’ approach – there are essentially two narratives being offered here:

    1) Zimmerman stalked harmless-child Martin, ran him down and, for the pure joy of ‘whackin’ a darkie’ murdered Martin in cold blood.

    2) Zimmerman was doing his neighborhood-watch thing (btw, 911 operators are not cops and have NO authority to “tell” you to do anything) and confronted Martin who, thinking Zimmerman was unarmed, jumped him and smacked the back of his head into the concrete – whereupon Zimmerman turned out NOT to be unarmed and, upon finding the back of his favorite head being bounced off the cement by a guy who overtopped him by at least 5 inches – ventilated him.

    Someone please tell me where “Stand Your Ground” fits into either of those?

    Seems to me that one is just straight murder – the other is straight self-defense.

    …unless of course, you believe that Zimmerman shot Martin – who then heroically kicked Zimmerman’s ass before finally succumbing to his wounds… which would have SYG applying to Martin’s actions…

    Which – in case you’re wondering – I do not personally believe.

    – MD

  24. 24
    DJ Allyn -- Tired Soul growls and barks:

    Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan says:

    Where I disagree with DJ is I don’t have a problem believing that a DA would bring charges in a chase they knew they could or should not win just to save face, or to score points with voters.

    I could see that with your standard, run-of-the-mill prosecution, but this one they had to actually cross the tees and dot the i’s. They aren’t going to slouch when they try this.

    Besides, from virtually everyone who knows the prosecution on this, they all say that the Special Prosecutor isn’t one that is known for bowing to public pressure or media pressure. She has a reputation for being pretty independent.

    The defense attorney isn’t a slouch either, and neither is the judge. I would say that everyone is going to bring out their “A game” on this one, and that is a GOOD thing. The state may very well lose on this one, but at the end, nobody will honestly be able to say that this was a whitewash.

    From George Zimmerman’s standpoint, he would be in a MUCH better position to be found not guilty, than to have the charges thrown out or had never been charged at all.

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    c’mon Deej…..that’s self incrimination. You didn’t really expect that did you?

    Incrimination of what, shooting and killing Trayvon Martin? He has already readily admitted that part.

    His attorney said that he wanted to make his statement in response to what Trayvon’s parents had said a few days ago about whether George was sorry he killed Trayvon. Do you think it is possible that George IS sorry he killed the kid? Perhaps wishing he could do the whole thing over again? After seeing him in court and on the stand, I really DO think he wishes he could have a do-over on all of this.

    I don’t doubt for a second that George Zimmerman believes what he did was right. Maybe he was — I wasn’t there, I didn’t see it. That is why I am willing to let the trial proceed and I can get a better understanding of what happened that night from an official source — the court. I will try to be objective.
    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul recently posted..Polly ~ NirvanaMy Profile

  25. 25
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    From the look of it, these are scratches, not “wounds”. If they were wounds, he would have gone to the hospital instead of simply getting cleaned up and transported to the police station in fifty minutes like he was. The cops would have insisted he go to the hospital first if they were considered to be more than scratches. No way they would have accepted that kind of liability.

    Cops are not paramedics or doctors, and it is likely they would have had one at the station when he got there. They would not disregard his wounds (any injury is a wound, Deej.) and would have ensured he was checked over. That’s SOP

    If he had, you can bet that his medical reports describing his near death injuries would have been plastered all over the place by now.

    Deej, you can fall over, belt your head, wince, go “ow” and go on about your daily business as if nothing had happened.,

    Then be found dead two days later.

    I also remind you that a HUGE number of head injury cases that lead to debilitating consequences or death are “silent killers” that go undetected because “they dont seem life threatening”

    There is more than one laceration, he didnt get them shaving his head, the wounds are recent and the blood is still flowing, one of them is horizontal in nature and large, both indicate an attack or other assault on the head from behind, so either he was against a wall and having his head bashed against it, or he was on the ground being assaulted, and his head smashed on a concrete or other hard surface, or on an edged hard surface.

    Sorry Deej, I have seen too many trauma cases to pass this off as a “shaving cut”.

    Note as well the angle and the direction of the wounds, and the fact they are at different places to each other, which indicates his head was moving, or being moved, when each impact occurred.

    He had a bloody head AND a broken nose?

    Clear case of assault, occasioning bodily harm.

    That speaks to me “in fear of ones life”

    Justifiable shooting.

  26. 26

    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul says:

    Incrimination of what, shooting and killing Trayvon Martin? He has already readily admitted that part.

    not in court he hasn’t and shouldn’t

    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul says:

    His attorney said that he wanted to make his statement in response to what Trayvon’s parents had said a few days ago about whether George was sorry he killed Trayvon. Do you think it is possible that George IS sorry he killed the kid? Perhaps wishing he could do the whole thing over again? After seeing him in court and on the stand, I really DO think he wishes he could have a do-over on all of this.

    who wouldn’t want a do-over. I do think he regrets it, probably more than Trayvon’s (c) parents do. Taking a human life is a horrid experience, I can’t imagine not wanting to change things if I did it.

  27. 27
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    The defense attorney isn’t a slouch either, and neither is the judge. I would say that everyone is going to bring out their “A game” on this one, and that is a GOOD thing. The state may very well lose on this one, but at the end, nobody will honestly be able to say that this was a whitewash.

    I wouldn’t be too sure of that. We’re not even at the trail phase yet.

    The trial is being pushed through out of fear for another round of Rodney King style rioting in my opinion and I do not condemn the state one bit for being prudent. I just hope it isn’t too little too late no thanks to the LSM lynch posse roundup.

  28. 28
    DJ Allyn -- Tired Soul growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    Cops are not paramedics or doctors, and it is likely they would have had one at the station when he got there. They would not disregard his wounds (any injury is a wound, Deej.) and would have ensured he was checked over. That’s SOP

    I don’t know how they do it in Australia, mate, but here in the US, they actually call a paramedic to look at people.

    In this particular case, paramedics apparently were called, Zimmerman was looked at, cleaned up, and released.

    He DID however go see an actual doctor in a day or two who also examined him and gave him a clean bill of health. Sure, it looks like he MAY have had a broken nose, but so far we haven’t actually gotten the official release of the medical records so all we have is his attorney saying so.

    Like I mentioned earlier, IF — and I really can’t stress IF strong enough — there had been something more serious involved here, you can bet your ass we would have heard about it LONG ago.

    I think you are trying to argue a point that really doesn’t pan out. Even the photograph posted above is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. As I, and LC Ogrrre pointed out above the seriousness of the injuries is not really material to this case. Only Zimmerman’s state of mind at the moment he pulled the trigger. In other words, did he have reason to fear for his life at that instant?

    I only pointed out that the injuries don’t appear to be all that serious. In fact they don’t appear to be much more than a scrape. In the grand scheme of things, it isn’t all that important.

    LCBrendan says:

    Deej, you can fall over, belt your head, wince, go “ow” and go on about your daily business as if nothing had happened.,

    Then be found dead two days later.

    Goodness, I should have been dead years ago then. Brennan, I used to fight a lot. A FUCKING lot. I was that proverbial “hard head”. My head used to stop fists, bar stools, bars, fists, bats. boots, fists, pavement, beer bottles and just about anything else you can imagine. I lived for a good fight, and I was seldom drunk when I was looking for one. Sometimes I would get my ass handed to me and other times I would take on a room full of guys — just for a good time. Of course I got older, and slower, and decided that there were better ways to find “fun”. I grew up fighting. It was something we just did. We’d have rock fights, we’d fight the bulls in the cow pastures, we were just plain jackasses as kids. I think back on it all now and wonder how the fuck I made it to sixty-two.

    Funny thing is, not one thing I ever did will probably kill me, just a genetic anomaly will be the cause of my demise.

    LCBrendan says:

    Sorry Deej, I have seen too many trauma cases to pass this off as a “shaving cut”.

    I don’t see any signs of blood spurting. Just the routine trail of blood usually associated with a scratch. I don’t know how many trauma cases you have seen, but this looks like a normal Saturday night bar fight to me. A wet towel, some direct pressure and five minutes and it is all done.

    From the video taken just fifty minutes later from about ten different camera angles as he was walked through the police station, it appears as though his “wounds” were superficial.

    Like I said, nothing more serious than me nicking myself shaving. The fact that George is still walking and talking without the need of surgery or major medical assistance is also a testament to that fact. But if you want to wait for the medical records from his doctor’s visit a day or two later to be released to disprove what I just said, then we can do that. But right now I will stipulate to a possible broken nose and some scratches on the back of his head. Nothing life-threatening though. Nothing more than most of us endured as children going to school. (unless you lived a really sheltered life)

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    not in court he hasn’t and shouldn’t

    Theoretically, he never should have taken the stand at all. He was taking a HUGE gamble and opened himself up to cross examination that he shouldn’t have been doing. I have a feeling that some of his testimony may come back to bite him on the ass.

    The smartest thing a defendant can do is just shut up and let his attorney handle things.

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    who wouldn’t want a do-over. I do think he regrets it, probably more than Trayvon’s (c) parents do. Taking a human life is a horrid experience, I can’t imagine not wanting to change things if I did it.

    I agree. The problem is — as I just said above — the witness stand is NOT the place he should have made those statements. If he was going to apologize, he should have used his website to do it. Or at least through his family way back at the beginning. It is too late now. THIS is the time he NEEDS to keep quiet. If he has to say something, wait at least until he is in the actual TRIAL before he says something. Even then, is not the place for apologies.

    LC Gunsniper @ #27:

    The key word I used was “honestly”.

    There will always be dumbshits in the world. People will always use excuses for their bad behavior. It doesn’t even have to be realistic. There are assholes everywhere. Your example is just one of many. Are YOU going to buy into this Bozo’s reasoning, or are you just going to chalk it up to yet another dickwad being an asshole?
    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul recently posted..Take a Picture ~ FilterMy Profile

  29. 29
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    To my bud Deej @ #28:

    The key word I used was “honestly”.

    There will always be dumbshits in the world. People will always use excuses for their bad behavior. It doesn’t even have to be realistic. There are assholes everywhere. Your example is just one of many.

    All true. Cold comfort for the Reginald Dennys to come though.

    Are YOU going to buy into this Bozo’s reasoning, or are you just going to chalk it up to yet another dickwad being an asshole?

    I’m gonna chalk it up to the left wing (dis)organized lynch mob once again getting blood for blood’s sake. I’ll also chalk it up to the Al Sharktongues and Jesse Jackasses, aided and abetted by their LSM lackies, getting away with incitement because of said mob force.

    I’ll further chalk it up to a lack of Second Amendment rights in the Shitty of the Big Shoulders and the midwestern version of California sometimes known as the state of Ill-Annoy allowing the Chi-town parasites to claim yet another victim with the convenience of a vending machine.

    I’ll especially chalk it up to all the individuals, past and present, that created our current social apartheid through their welfare schemes, set-asides, affirmative action ploys, urban renewal scams, institutional double standards, phony victimhood snake oil, shameless pandering and condescension through grassroots sellouts and their limousine liberal benefactors, revisionist historians in academia and the entertainment industries…

    …but mostly to the masses on ALL sides of the social spectrum who sat, and continue to sit idly by all this time, preferring to lose themselves in the various distractions of this so-called modern society that ‘knows’ about the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

    Special loathing goes to the perps who make their decisions and act upon them regardless of realities or consequences to others.

  30. 30
    DJ Allyn -- Tired Soul growls and barks:

    LC Gunsniper @ #29:

    Just chalk it up to dumbasses. Anything more than that is just repeating yourself…
    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul recently posted..Take a Picture ~ FilterMy Profile

  31. 31
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul @ #30:

    That was the condensed version BTW. I’m too busy test piloting a bottle of Jura Superstition Single Malt Scotch Whiskey (Lightly Peated). Goes great splashed over two fresh ice cubes.

  32. 32
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Deej: mate, you are mising my point.

    It is NOT the external injuries you see that are the issue here. You CANNOT ever dismiss a head injury based on looks alone, and as I have repeated, it can take days , or years, for a “silent killer” to step in.

    It is what you do not see that can kill you.

    You can’t see a hairline skull fracture, or a subarachnoid bleed..but they can both kill you in seconds.

  33. 33
    SDN growls and barks:

    LCBrendan, you can quote facts until you fall over; DJ is not interested in them. No Leftist ever is.

  34. 34
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    LC Gladiator @ #16:
    Thanks , I went on by last evening.

  35. 35
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    I had a buddy who died of the type of injury LC Brendan describes. single kick in the head. thought he was fine. 6 months later, stared having seizures. 2 years later, had a seizure in bed, and ate his pillow, and suffocated.

  36. 36

    Reading through all the medical discussions, and they are truth. I too was registered EMT many moons ago, and I was taught the same thing.

    The justification lies not just within that, GZ may have no internal trauma at all, or he may end up having a stroke next week, we don’t know that. What we do know, or may reasonably assume, is that he had justifiable fear for his life, given the testimonies so far, and the evidence of the assault.

    What I am seeing, far more so, is EXACTLY what I’m reading out of Troy’s comments. And you know it too. They are going to milk this fucker to the middle of October, then set off the race riots right before the election. And that, boys and girls, is one of the primary reasons for belt fed weapons and large magazines.
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..FX finds so much good stuff!My Profile

  37. 37
    LC FX Phillips growls and barks:

    It seems to me that the extent of one’s injuries is totally divorced from the concept of whether one fears for his life or not. After all if someone comes at me with a weapon and I use lethal force before he lays a hand on me just because there are no discernible injuries it doesn’t detract from the idea I was in fear for my life.

    The fact of Zimmerman’s wounds are prima facie evidence he was assaulted. The extent not so much even though they appear to me more than just “razor nick”; that is unless the “razor” your using is a standard wood hatchet. Now the question in the case is who initiated the struggle. The state sure as hell doesn’t know and they have said as much.

    He aggressively questioned a state investigator, Dale Gilbreath, about the accusation that Mr. Zimmerman had racially profiled Mr. Martin, and he demanded to know what evidence the state had for the statement that “Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.”

    “Do you know who started the fight?” Mr. O’Mara asked Mr. Gilbreath.

    “Do I know?” Mr. Gilbreath said. “No.”

    Mr. O’Mara then asked Mr. Gilbreath if the state had any evidence to contradict Mr. Zimmerman’s statement to the police that he had been making his way back to his car when he was punched by Mr. Martin. Mr. Zimmerman told investigators he shot Mr. Martin in self-defense after Mr. Martin banged his head on concrete, covered his nose and mouth and reached for his gun.

    Mr. Gilbreath responded, “No.”

    From Just One Minute via Instapundit

    Many in the legal profession are heaping scorn and derision on these proceedings from Alan Dershowitz to the Great One

    This is a run of the mill shooting that happens everyday in many major American cities that was blown out of proportion looking to create another conflagration in hopes of distracting the nation from the cynical and deceitful resident of the United States when his wholly fabricated in the west wing “war on women” started to collapse.

    Class war, gender war, race war. Repeat as necessary.

  38. 38
    DJ Allyn -- Tired Soul growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    You CANNOT ever dismiss a head injury based on looks alone, and as I have repeated, it can take days , or years, for a “silent killer” to step in.

    And yet the paramedics and the doctor who saw him a day or two later have apparently dismissed it. That was my point.

    Could he have that “silent killer” injury that kills him next week, next month, or fifty years from now? It’s possible, but not probable. He could get shot to death five years from now because someone else “Stood their Ground:”

    SDN says:

    LCBrendan, you can quote facts until you fall over; DJ is not interested in them. No Leftist ever is.

    Show me the facts proving that Zimmerman was seriously injured. So far, all I’ve seen is speculation and conjecture and a whole lot of maybe. Even I am forced to speculate that these injuries aren’t serious based on what it looks like to me and the fact that no official medical record has been released yet. I speculate further that HAD this been a serious injury, the medical records would have been leaked to the press long ago. The fact that they weren’t seems to indicate that the injuries were not all that serious.

    Think about this for a minute. Up until the charges were filed, there has been a massive PR effort out there to try and put Zimmerman into the best light possible. Part of that narrative was to say that “he was beat nearly to death” That would have been the perfect time to leak the medical record. I’m guessing that it wasn’t because there wasn’t anything serious in that record.

    Speculation, but it is really all any of us have got at this point in time.

    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician says:

    They are going to milk this fucker to the middle of October, then set off the race riots right before the election.

    “They”? Who is “they?” Do you know how many times Obama has even mentioned Trayvon Martin? Once. That’s it. And that was only to give condolences to his family.

    As far as setting off race wars just before the election? For what purpose? What would that accomplish? If anything it would be counterproductive.

    Clambake, we KNOW that there are jackasses all over the place, and they aren’t restricted to any one ethnic group. They pretty much run the entire spectrum.

    People saw what they thought was an injustice in Florida and they spoke up. All they see is an unarmed kid walking back from the store with a bag of Skittles and a bottle of Arizona Iced Tea and he ends up shot to death by someone who is claiming self defense. They hear that the shooter pursued the kid, even after being advised not to by the 911 dispatcher. They are also told that the prosecutor decided he wasn’t going to charge the shooter, and simply accept the claim of self defense.

    The people wanted a more legal forum to decide whether that was the case or not.

    I know that what I am going to say now will just spin the heads off of some of you, but I have a suggestion.

    If we are going to have a Stand Your Ground law on the books as an extension of the Castle Doctrine, then whenever someone makes a claim under that law, that it is done in an open trial setting, and not decided behind closed doors between the prosecutor and defense attorney. Let the court and/or jury decide whether that defense is valid for that incident.

    That is just my opinion, not that it means anything. If someone gets bent out of shape over someone else’s opinion, then THEY have a problem and should seek help.
    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul recently posted..Take a Picture ~ FilterMy Profile

  39. 39
    Mark12A growls and barks:

    None of this shit about brain injury is even barely relevant.

    If some asshole has got me by the ears and is bouncing my head off the pavement, I’m going to shoot a hole through him while I can, and not wait to see if he’s going to stop short of spreading my occiput around the neighborhood. And I’ll shoot him, if I can, before I lose consciousness. Tough to do it afterwards.

    If there’s no long term damage, well, good for me, but the guy trying to crack my egg is still going to be dead.

  40. 40
    Igor, Imperial Booby growls and barks:

    The facts so far:
    1) Z called 9-1-1, reported suspicious activity.
    2) Somebody heard someone screaming for help
    3) Somebody saw somebody in a hoodie on top of another guy, pounding his head in the pavement
    4) That somebody got shot and killed.
    5) paramedics showed up, cops showed up
    6) Pictures of back of bloody head showing injuries
    Later;
    7) powder burns on “victims” clothes showing close contact w/muzzle of weapon
    8) police report went before the DA and said DA decided not to press charges.
    9) cell tower records shows cellphone call slightly after the time of the incident.
    10) Professional race baiters show up, raise pluperfect hell about the case, call it “murder”
    11) lots of uncorroborated “facts” come out about what went down.
    12) video of Z being taken to the police station show up.
    13) DA reopens case, decides to charge murder or manslaughter (don’t remember which…)
    14) speculation galore by the LSM, most of it pathetically wrong.
    15) Z gets his hearing, charged with $150K bail (this is standard for the charges leveled).

    Did I leave anything out? If I did, please speak up.

    Deej, armchair quarterbacking never solves the problem. Three separate Rotties with experience say the injuries are consistent w/head meeting pavement. More than once, from the injuries. I believe them, although my training in head trauma is minimal. And yes, you can die much MUCH later of trauma received in a fight, accident, altercation. Just because YOU survived doesn’t mean the next guy will.

    Facts, people, facts show that Z was probably justified, but none of us HAVE ALL THE FACTS. My opinion is that this is an open-and-shut self defense case about a punk who didn’t like being observed and decided on a little street justice. My OPINION. Which is worth nothing in this case.

    Already is ugly (thanks to the race-baiters and racists), and gonna get uglier. Belt fed weapons may need to be applied here, I fervently wish nothing even remotely like their use is necessary. Not looking good.
    :em06:

  41. 41
    rickl growls and barks:

    I found this site earlier today. It is essential reading for anyone interested in this case:

    Update #11

    That’s the like to Update #11, but read #9, #10 (part 1), and #10 (part 2) first. Those links are in the link I provided. I would say that #10 (part 2) is the most interesting.

    Best pack a lunch first, or an overnight bag. These posts are incredibly detailed, and contain information I’ve seen nowhere else. In a sane world, they would win the Pulitzer Prize for investigative reporting.

  42. 42
    DJ Allyn -- Tired Soul growls and barks:

    I don’t think I can add any more to this discussion than what I have already said to this point. I will wait for the officially-released evidence and facts before I make my mind up.

    I am certainly not going to change anyone’s mind here.
    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul recently posted..Take a Picture ~ FilterMy Profile

  43. 43
    Secondmouse growls and barks:

    rickl @ #41:

    Rickl, thanks for pointing this out. I encourage everyone with an interest in this case to follow the link and do some reading. This is a remarkable body of detailed investigative reporting you just don’t see in the mainstream media anymore, and it is brilliantly done and redolent with the truth. It would be truly explosive, if it were ever widely seen.

  44. 44
    FrJim, Imperial Chaplain growls and barks:

    I really don’t much care about this. Why? The Lamestream Media wants me to care…hence, I don’t.

    Let’s put this in perspective. This criminal case is getting major play in all the LSM outlets with the race baiters trying to cash in press time and fund raising opportunities. Meanwhile, our border patrol agents lost their National Guard reinforcements, the border has more holes in it than a Bill Clinton legal argument, and innocent American citizens routinely get the crap kicked out of them or worst by the drug cartels in Mexico.

    And all of this takes place within thirty miles of my back porch.

    So this story doesn’t quite upset me as much as the boneheads over the MSLSD wants.

    And I’d say more, but I need to get some fresh ammunition in my handgun…and make sure the claymores are properly set up before I go to bed.

    -Jim+

  45. 45
    LC Robohobo growls and barks:

    As those who carry know there are a few rules:

    1. Know that when you must draw the weapon you may be forced to use it.
    2. If forced to use it your life will be irrevocably changed.
    3. You can and must make one and only one statement to the police = “I was in fear for my life.” Then STFU.
    4. When asked if you would like to talk to the police “…just to clear things up…” decline and insist on waiting for your lawyer. Then STFU.

    Go google the video at YouTube about why you should never, ever talk to the police without your lawyer present. Listen to it. Listen to it again. Revisit that video every 6 months as a refresher.

    Also, practice at the range enough that you are going to be the only one talking to the police about the incident.

    Anything else – discussion on internet forums with Liberals, what a bad mo-fo you are, arguing with Liberals on the internet is just self-abuse and should be avoided. The same is trying to convince Liberals they are anything other than drain-bamaged chumps is the same.

  46. 46
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn — Tired Soul says:

    I am certainly not going to change anyone’s mind here.

    There’s not really anything to change one’s mind about here.

    Whether or not Zimmerman’s head injury was lethal, painful, debilitating or just a scratch is wholly irrelevant.

    The only two issues relevant to the clear picture of an obvious bleeding injury to the back of the head are:

    1) Is this injury consistent with Zimmerman’s explanation of events (repeated without inconsistency by him over two days of interviews and a crime scene reenactment) AND the ONLY eyewitness account of the incident, not to mention the statements of responding officers and EMTs.

    Yes. It is.

    2) Could a person finding himself in a situation like the one described by Zimmerman and corroborated by the ONLY eyewitness to the incident as well as the above physical evidence be said, reasonably, to be “in fear of his life or serious injury?”

    Yes. He could. The victim is not required to wait until he’s actually dead to defend himself, nor does a subsequent “finding” that he wouldn’t really have died or suffered serious injury matter one flying fucking tiny teensy weensy little iota of one scintilla of a bit. All that matters is whether he, in the moment, not knowing what the future might bring if he doesn’t do something, might reasonably consider himself in danger of life and/or limb.

    Period. End. Stop.

    Those are the only issues.

    Barring some surprising, miraculous evidence proving that everything that is known about the actual incident, evidence so super special double probation fantastic that it simply couldn’t be revealed by the persecution (and no, that’s not a typo based on their utter fuckup so far of a kangaroo court. If even Alan Dershowitz tells you you’re full of shit in a case like this, then you are), then both of those questions have also been answered.

    Show trial. That’s what it looks like at this point. If it ever comes to trial, that is, and isn’t thrown under the bus by the judge when the question of self-defense comes up during prelims. Again, barring some truly spectacular unknown evidence that, Perry Mason-like, turns everything upside down when the persecution finally decides to turn this into an actual case as opposed to the private pander-fest of an elected persecutor skeered shitless at the thought of not caving to the demands of the mob that holds her future in their hands.

    At this point, I’m not holding my breath.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Clear Cut Case of MurderMy Profile

  47. 47
  48. 48
  49. 49

    The picture shows that Z’man clearly had a gushing shaving accident on the sidewalk as he framed an innocent teenager who was just playing patty-cakes with him whilst sitting on his chest.
    Real talk.
    Deej knows this,, ‘just likes to pursue that fucked up mission to say stupid shit to drive up site hits. :em02:
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  50. 50
    bruce growls and barks:

    neither tray or his father lived in the housing complex and were mooching off the father’s girl friend.while on parole from school for possession of dope and burglary tools in his locker old tray with his gold grill and tattoos was spotted prowling around the complex looking for some thing to steal to help pay for his gold teeth. but tray flashed a few gang sign then attacked zimmerman from behind knocking him on to to side walk then jumped on top of zimmerman and with a maniacal gold filled grin on his face began smashing zimmermans head into the side walk.that is when zimmerman shot the 6’3″ tray martin and that is how martin found out that crime does not pay.

  51. 51

    bruce says:

    and that is how martin found out that crime does not pay.

    Or, he provided proof that one should bring more than a fictitious bag of skittles to a gunfight.

    BTW, ‘Attaboys and Kudos all around for the Sanford City Council that refused to let Chief of Police Lee resign today.

  52. 52

    LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech says:

    BTW, ‘Attaboys and Kudos all around for the Sanford City Council that refused to let Chief of Police Lee resign today.

    Amen to that Cheap! Finally some balls and common sense in this bull shit, manufactured fiasco.
    LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. recently posted..The Ugly TruthMy Profile

  53. 53
    Eric T. growls and barks:

    Too bad Zimmerman didn’t have a doctor or paramedic handy to assess the extent of head trauma before he shot the guy who was pounding his head into the ground. Shame on him for making such a serious decision while dazed from his brain getting bounced around inside his skull. He should have waited until he was out of ICU and able to focus both eyes on the same object again. There’s no way to know when St. Trayvon was going to stop beating Zimmerman’s head on the pavement–one more slam or 40 more. Either way, it was stopped before serious bodily harm was incurred. That is the whole point of self defense.

    Also too bad that St. Trayvon’s daddy didn’t tell him that starting a beat-down on unfamiliar people in a state with 900,000 issued Concealed Carry Permits is a bad idea.