King Ogabe to Destroy Military as Well

And boy are we not surprised.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama unveiled a defense strategy on Thursday that would expand the U.S. military presence in Asia but shrink the overall size of the force as the Pentagon seeks to reduce spending by nearly half a trillion dollars after a decade of war.

And just how much is Sir Golfsalot going to suggest we cut back on one of the few things that the Constitution actually does allow Congress to spend money on (as opposed to payouts to his union buddies and campaign donation bundlers)?

Administration officials have said they expect Army and Marine Corp personnel levels to be reduced by 10 percent to 15 percent over the next decade as part of the reductions.
The Army’s current strength is about 565,000 soldiers and there are 201,000 Marines, meaning an eventual loss of between 76,000 and 114,000 troops.

Demobilizing in the middle of a war? Now there’s a novel approach!

Keep that in mind, all of those planning on staying at home or “protest voting” if your preferred candidate isn’t on the list in November.

After all, how bad can four more years of Ogabe possibly be?

Thatisall.

50 comments

  1. 1
    dasbow growls and barks:

    A quibble, sire? The Constitution does not allow Ccongress to spend money on the military – it requires it.

  2. 2
    Igor, Imperial Booby growls and barks:

    Indeed, Dasbow: “…provide for the common defense…”

    Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it… and it looks like another Cahtah Cluster*** will be just down the road. Any bets as to how long it will take before another 9/11-type event happens, where American blood will be spilled on American soil?
    :em08:

    After all, how bad can four more years of Ogabe possibly be?

    Is it okay to whimper now? (Screaming will just wake up my co-workers – wouldn’t want THAT…)

  3. 3
    LC Light29ID growls and barks:

    After all, how bad can four more years of Ogabe possibly be?

    Oh I dunno, about the same as the last four years were for the Jews under Hitler? Just substitute “Conservatives” for “Jews” and you’ll have your next intended victims for the camps.

    But I don’t think we’ll go as quietly…

  4. 4
    ICD growls and barks:

    Everything needs cutting, the military included. Of course Obama’s pet projects will be protected as long as he’s President, that’s no surprise. But despite the current mess in the Republican primary, I doubt he’ll hold the office for another term, and then it’ll be his program’s turn. Instead of the Ds and Rs protecting their own programs, they should be slashing each others. The budget is completely out of control. Here’s hoping that the military budget is only the first to be slashed this year.

  5. 5
    Orion growls and barks:

    Vote? Even assuming it actually MEANT something, vote for WHO? There is Z E R O appreciable difference in how the Communist and Democrat candidates for President will operate should they be ‘elected’.

    Serious question – and NO I am **NOT** advocating revolt – when does the number of crimes, Constitutional violations, the amount of corruption, and the number of destructive actions reach a point where Service members SHOULD actually act to remove a clear and present danger to the US Constitution and the safety of the nation? Our oaths require it, if needed – how does one (and more importantly, all!) determine when that point is reached?

    Orion

  6. 6
    Secondmouse growls and barks:

    I have said this many months ago, in another forum (before I joined the Rott):

    “If you were President of the United States, and it was your secret intent to do irreparable harm to this nation and you knew you would only have four years to do it, what would you have done differently than what Obama has done since he was elected? I can’t think of a single thing. In fact, I believe he has been quite efficient.”

    This is simply the next logical step, if my statement above is correct.

  7. 7
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    And just how much is Sir Golfsalot going to suggest we cut back on one of the few things that the Constitution actually does allow Congress to spend money on

    Just because the Constitution allows for it, does it mean you have to spend insane amounts of money on military programs that are no longer needed or even wanted?

    I remember how the Right got all melodramatic about how Clinton “destroyed” the military — yet Pappy Bush used Clinton’s military to rout Saddam out of Kuwait during the first Gulf War.

    Our military expenditures are about 600 percent of the military expenditures for the rest of the entire world combined. That is insane. Republicans love to talk about belt-tightening except when it applies to our war machine.

    We need to cut our military spending. Somehow I think we can muddle through with only having five times the expenditure that the rest of the world combined has. Maybe even twice what the rest of the world has. It will be rough, but I am sure we can make sacrifices.

    Now getting back to what the Constitution allows Congress to spend money on — JUST ABOUT ANYTHING THEY WANT. The Constitution allows for Congress to create laws, spend money and even collect taxes at whatever rate they decide. Just because the Constitution doesn’t specifically list each and every thing doesn’t mean Congress isn’t allowed to spend money.

    It is just that your priorities are different than most.
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..Somebody Else ~ Jeff BridgesMy Profile

  8. 8

    Igor, Imperial Booby says:

    Is it okay to whimper now? (Screaming will just wake up my co-workers – wouldn’t want THAT…)

    Cackling madly my own self! It is true that O’Bullshit has done ONE thing good. It has taken the mantle of “Worst pResident In American History” off the shoulders of Jimmuh. I will NOT say what else I’m thinking right now. I can’t. They’re watching us.
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Calling Mr Alinsky! Line 1 from DC!My Profile

  9. 9

    Orion @ # 5: Do you have any idea how many times I’ve asked the same question? Any? And spoken it?
    Secondmouse @ # 6: OMG, was that good or what?
    LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician recently posted..Calling Mr Alinsky! Line 1 from DC!My Profile

  10. 10

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    yet Pappy Bush used Clinton’s military to rout Saddam out of Kuwait during the first Gulf War.

    you got your dates wrong man, the gulf war happened in 1990 and 1991. That was one year before clinton took office, Pappy Bush used Reagans military to do the job

  11. 11
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    Thank You for pointing out that little problem with DJ’s statement.

  12. 12
    bloodyspartan growls and barks:

    AJ presents the Fucking Ultimate In SPECIOUS ARGUMENTS.

    He bases our Military Expenditures on one of his wants .. Curbing Spending and bases it on

    What the rest of the World spends.

    Nowhere does he explain how it should be on the Security of the US , now and in the future. Including protecting our Industry in order to be able to function on all the levels needed!!!

    What a illogical , Emotional Crock of shit.

    Kevin

  13. 13
    dasbow growls and barks:

    OK, so my priorities are the defense of this great nation and its institutions. Other peoples’ priorities are the destruction of same through the ever growing Federal Behemoth. Noted.

  14. 14
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    you got your dates wrong man, the gulf war happened in 1990 and 1991. That was one year before clinton took office, Pappy Bush used Reagans military to do the job

    Actually I got the wars wrong. GW Bush used Clinton’s military to take out Saddam in the SECOND war.

    Something didn’t seem right when I was typing it earlier, and I could’t figure out what it was. (it’s what I get for switching to decaf)

    bloodyspartan says:

    Nowhere does he explain how it should be on the Security of the US , now and in the future. Including protecting our Industry in order to be able to function on all the levels needed!!!

    So it is military for an empire, is it?

    NEWSFLASH: we are not an empire. With all of your dick yanking over what the founding fathers intended, one major thing they NEVER intended was for us to be an empire.

    As far as our “security”? We have a Department of Defense. It is for our defense. We have enough firepower that we can sit here on our asses right now and push some buttons and literally render the earth inhabitable for hundreds of thousands of years if we wanted to light them all off at once. I cannot think of any five countries that we couldn’t attack at the same time and inflict some VERY serious damage to render them helpless.

    The one thing people like you fail to understand about security is that you can have all the weapons and military might in the world and still be completely vulnerable. Why? Because most of the problems we face in the world are a result of something WE did. The “protecting our industry”, which I am assuming has to do with raw materials such as oil usually found under the feet of some other country you want to exploit. How dare those A-rabs have OUR oil under their feet!

    Our other problem is that we’ve become the self-appointed cop of the world, and all we get is shit in return. It is time we ended all that. Have a strong military right here at home, in reserve, in case we get attacked. But quit being the cop for the rest of the world.
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..Somebody Else ~ Jeff BridgesMy Profile

  15. 15
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    NEWSFLASH: we are not an empire. With all of your dick yanking over what the founding fathers intended, one major thing they NEVER intended was for us to be an empire.

    Then tell that to your fellow lefties, will ya? All I ever hear from them is how we are a big, bad, evil empire, invading countries and stealing their natural resources.

  16. 16
    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet growls and barks:

    I’ll be honest. I’m not opposed to a 10-15% cut to defense. The problem is

    A) Our allies are going to have to pull more of their weight in defense spending to offset the power vacuum we would leave if we cut our defense budget suddenly. It would have to be done incrementally to give Europe time to work things out. I tend to think Australia, India, and Japan would not whine as much as the Euros.

    B) The process of determining where that 10-15% would be best applied to impact our effectiveness the least, would be vulnerable to an enormous political back-room circlejerk. I’m afraid that some prima donna Senators would end up throwing a bag of wrenches into things.

    C) If we end up fighting another war in the near future, we will have to be smarter about it. The next country we invade, if the natives want to write Islamic law into their constitution, we need to pack up and go home, and leave the place in ruins. If you think a country’s problems can be solved by making it more democratic, do you know what that makes you? A democrat.
    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet recently posted..This Thanksgiving…My Profile

  17. 17
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    Looks like the U.S. Navy took a timeout from their effort to subjugate the poor, misunderstood Iranians in order to steal their oil in the name of The Evil American Empire to do this:

    U.S. rescues Iranian hostages, with good timing

  18. 18
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    Then tell that to your fellow lefties, will ya? All I ever hear from them is how we are a big, bad, evil empire, invading countries and stealing their natural resources.

    And yet the Right still wants to invade countries and spread democracy steal their natural resources.

    Of course Obama is disappointing a lot of us on the Left — he is still continuing with his folly in Afghanistan.

    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet says:

    Our allies are going to have to pull more of their weight in defense spending to offset the power vacuum we would leave if we cut our defense budget suddenly.

    Either they do or they don’t — that is up to them. It really isn’t our business. It seems to me they’ve been given pretty much a free ride as it is all this time with us picking up their slack. Use the same argument on them that you would use on a welfare recipient — sink or swim.

    LC George, Apocryphal Prophet says:

    C) If we end up fighting another war in the near future, we will have to be smarter about it.

    Yeah, like the first thing we should think about is not doing it in the first place. As long as they aren’t attacking us, leave them the hell alone. I don’t care if they are doing human sacrifices every Friday. If they keep it confined to their borders, it is their business.

    And the next time a Saddam Hussein invades a Kuwait, let Kuwait deal with it. Or maybe one of their friends over there. STAY OUT OF IT.

    We don’t have to be “isolationists”, but we don’t need to insert our will on other people and other cultures because WE think our shit don’t stink.
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..Somebody Else ~ Jeff BridgesMy Profile

  19. 19
    Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen @ #:

    I don’t disagree with most of what you’ve said here with one notable exception.

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    And the next time a Saddam Hussein invades a Kuwait, let Kuwait deal with it. Or maybe one of their friends over there. STAY OUT OF IT.

    For me it’s not a DON”T go in, it’s a don’t go in if the possible gains don’t outweigh the possible costs. We have a moral obligation to help our allies from where I’m sitting, but is it worth American lives to put boots on the ground of some third world shit hole in the vain hope that they will embrace freedom and democracy? Probably not unless there is some pressing security concern or economic concern. (Yes, I’d kill folks for their oil, I’d just do it from the air whenever possible.)

  20. 20
    Special Ed growls and barks:

    How come is it that every time we steal a large portion of another nation’s resources, they move up from being a third or fourth world shithole to a second or first world power?

    How come is it that every time we steal another nation’s resources it costs us a shitload of money, paid to the nation in question?

    How come is it that we usually have to develop the foreign nations resource extraction technologies after discovering their resources for them in order to steal them at enormous cost to us?

    Do we suck at the whole exploitation deal, or what?

    And just who should have access to the resources we discovered and developed? We may use more resources, but we also do more with them, at a far more efficient rate. In the end, any single nation benefits more from American resource and energy consumption than from the entire rest of the freaking world’s resource and energy consumption.

    So fuck ‘em.

  21. 21
    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder growls and barks:

    DOD spending is around 5 % of GDP, I have said this again, and again, it is no higher right now on average than it has been throughout the Nation’s history.

    The 600% more spending vs other countries expenditures argument is a red herring and DJ knows it, yes we spend more, BECAUSE we have the GDP to support it. It’s what’s made us a so called super power.

    Secondly which is it? Did we win in Iraq , or not? One second (in other threads) you’re saying we lost it wasn’t worth it, blah blah blah and then in this thread you claim we kicked Iraq’s ass with Clinton’s military. You can’t have it both ways DJ.

    As far as the assertion that it was “Clinton’s Military” That is a flat out falsehood, post 9-11 and the run up to Afghanistan and Iraq saw a very large uptick in DOD spending, recruiting efforts as well as actual people joining the military to increase troop numbers.

    ” I don’t care if they are doing human sacrifices every Friday. If they keep it confined to their borders, it is their business.

    How very compassionate ..Really? Let’s let some tin pot two bit tyrant slaughter a few million and commit genocide, think we tried that back around 1940 or so…that didn’t work out too well now did it? (6 million Europeans are unable to comment on this post..they’re dead.)

    Lastly, No you’re wrong on the point of “we appointed ourselves the worlds cop”. We did not. Save for the Civil war every conflict we have entered we’ve either been attacked (see Pearl Harbor) or entered at the behest of sworn allies (See Vietnam / France etc. ) That’ is why they call it a “coalition”, we lead these coalitions because we have the tech and troops and experience to do so. Even your hero Billy Clinton sent us into a little quagmire called Bosnia back in his tenure…at the behest of…. the UN and EU…

    Look, I know as a contractor there is some big cut’s coming, it always happens; it’s cyclic damn near on an 8 year curve mostly related to if the man wearing the CinC hat has an R or a D behind his name.

    Frankly I am surprised it took this long….I know the left is wailing and gnashing it’s teeth because Obammy didn’t gut the “military industrial complex” as fast as they wanted. Cry me a river. It’s still gonna happen so quit your god damn bitching for once, you got what you wanted…so shut the fuck up and color already…

    And that’s just the way this country works. However, coma, my biggest gripe with these huge defense spending cuts is that it steals opportunity for millions of Americans, weather they are in uniform or like me a civilian supporting the uniformed services. I think it was mentioned earlier by another poster, where are the same cuts to all the social programs? *crickets*

    Aren’t the Donk’s supposed to be all about “fairness” well I guess not really, because fairness would dictate that cuts go across the board, DOD, HHS, EPA, DOE, etc etc..but that’s not happening now is it? I digress…

    Mostly the contractors like me, for the most part can always find a gig, You learn the way this DOD game is played, and you follow the jobs where they go..and trust me, there is always going to be someplace to go for the most part as long as you’re willing to go. it is what it is.

    However, these cuts also affect those in the younger generation. Recruiting will dry up, and sooner or later, Johnnie is denied even that last ditch chance to get the hell out of dog patch tumbleweed and have a shot at a life better than what it might normally have been via joining the military. I grew up in the dreaded rust-belt, I know the chance the military gave me, I never forget that. Shouldn’t kids like my sons be afforded that same chance?

    That’s what irritates me endlessly about the Democrats and their instance on cutting military spending. Then they have the unmitigated gall to turn around run to the nearest microphone and boldly state they are “champions for the middle class” Bullshit. They ain’t my champion, in fact for the most part they are my and millions of other tax paying middle class working folks bane. Too bad those same millions can’ t wake the fuck up and admit just because their Daddy was in the Union and voted a straight D ticket that the party they are supporting now is screwing them.
    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder recently posted..The end of the roadMy Profile

  22. 22
    LC_Salgak growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    Yeah, like the first thing we should think about is not doing it in the first place. As long as they aren’t attacking us, leave them the hell alone. I don’t care if they are doing human sacrifices every Friday. If they keep it confined to their borders, it is their business.

    No, the first consideration in a war is whether it is necessary. The second consideration is how to win it as quickly as possible. The opinion of uninvolved third parties (such as the Euros or the Useless Nitwits. . ) is irrelevant. . .

  23. 23
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    And yet the Right still wants to invade countries and spread democracy steal their natural resources.

    I would like to see one example proving that we have “stolen” another countries natural resources in the last 100 years and that the theft was committed by the “right”. What natural resources motivated our involvement in Bosnia, Somalia, Beirut, Grenada, El Salvador, Nicaragua?

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    I don’t care if they are doing human sacrifices every Friday. If they keep it confined to their borders, it is their business.

    Using this logic, Im guessing that as long as DJ’s neighbor beats his wife and kids while in the confines of his property, then DJ just looks the other way.

  24. 24
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    Slightly to the right of Gingis Khan says:

    For me it’s not a DON”T go in, it’s a don’t go in if the possible gains don’t outweigh the possible costs

    Remember how we were sold the first Gulf War? The girl testifying in front of Congress about the Iraqis dumping the babies out of the incubators and taking the incubators North into Iraq? It was a lie. It was a fiction put out by a public relations firm and the girl was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador living here in the US at the time. No, we were all manipulated into entering into what essentially was a property dispute — an action that Saddam had clearly asked us beforehand if we would have any problems with that action and we told him we didn’t care. It was only after the Saudis promised us a cheap supply of oil that we changed our tune. (Of course the public wasn’t made aware of it until long after the First Gulf War was over.)

    We’ve been manipulated into wars for decades, either by out and out lies or by omission of pertinent facts. If the actual facts were known at the time, we probably wouldn’t have been involved with most of the conflicts we’ve been in for the past century or so.

    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder says:

    The 600% more spending vs other countries expenditures argument is a red herring and DJ knows it, yes we spend more, BECAUSE we have the GDP to support it. It’s what’s made us a so called super power.

    So having a larger GDP is a REASON for having a military machine six times larger than the rest of the world combined? Isn’t having a military equal to the rest of the world’s military combined large enough? We have to have one SIX times that? Why not four times larger? Two times larger? We could take the rest of the money and spend it on our infrastructure to actually BE the superpower everyone envies. Right now, we are quickly on our way to being a third world nation with a large armed force.

    LC_Salgak says:

    No, the first consideration in a war is whether it is necessary.

    Funny how that hasn’t been the consideration yet. You cannot manufacture a lie and then promote how necessary a war is going to be — and that is what we’ve been doing.

    LC TerribleTroy @ #23:

    Work calls. I will finish when I get there…
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..It’s The Primary Hillbillies!My Profile

  25. 25
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    And yet the Right still wants to invade countries and spread democracy steal their natural resources.

    Kennedy, Johnson, and Clinton were hardly “right.” And you must consider spreading democracy a bad thing. I’d much rather have a free market and democracy than communism or socialism, or live under a dictatorship. If YOU, DJ would rather not, then by all means…feel free to buy a one-way ticket out of here.

  26. 26
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC TerribleTroy says:

    I would like to see one example proving that we have “stolen” another countries natural resources in the last 100 years and that the theft was committed by the “right”.

    I was speaking mostly in terms of the Middle East and our motivations there. You and I both know if there wasn’t oil in the Middle East, we would have zero interest in what goes on over there. Hell, Iraq and Iran might never have existed as separate nations in their current form.

    SHOULD we have been involved in Bosnia, Somalia, Beirut, Grenada, El Salvador, Nicaragua? Nope. None of our business. Of course we’ve had this silly obsession about communists and look for every excuse to rout them out whenever possible — even though they pose no threat to us. But we have to meddle in their affairs, which usually causes us serious problems ten, twenty even fifty years down the road. Especially when we go in and prop up some Right-wing dictator.

    LC TerribleTroy says:

    Using this logic, Im guessing that as long as DJ’s neighbor beats his wife and kids while in the confines of his property, then DJ just looks the other way.

    That would be the Libertarian way — and if the Right gets their way, eventually it may devolve into something like that. The only exception would be in the policing of a woman’s va-jay-jay, or making sure we aren’t having gay sex.

    But no, now you are talking about laws within our own country — which is the only place we need to be concerned about. We have laws in our society that prohibit you or your neighbor from beating wives and kids. But those laws only apply to OUR society and are confined to our borders.
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..It’s The Primary Hillbillies!My Profile

  27. 27
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    And you must consider spreading democracy a bad thing.

    I do, if it using the barrel of a gun. If you want democracy to spread, just be a good example. If it is something another nation sees and then wants it, then they can follow our example. But if you have to use a gun to force someone to accept democratic principles, then you will end up having nothing but problems.

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    I’d much rather have a free market and democracy than communism or socialism, or live under a dictatorship.

    If you were living under a system you don’t like, would you wait for another country to come along and force your government to change? Or would you do it yourself? And remember, YOU aren’t the only one in your country.

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    If YOU, DJ would rather not, then by all means…feel free to buy a one-way ticket out of here.

    If YOU don’t like what you have here right now, then perhaps YOU should buy that ticket. Do you see how silly that sounds?
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..Somebody Else ~ Jeff BridgesMy Profile

  28. 28
    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    I do, if it using the barrel of a gun. If you want democracy to spread, just be a good example. If it is something another nation sees and then wants it, then they can follow our example. But if you have to use a gun to force someone to accept democratic principles, then you will end up having nothing but problems.

    What country have we EVER forced to accept democracy? The countries of Europe, maybe? You mean when we saved them from Hitler? That was a good thing, imo.

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    If you were living under a system you don’t like, would you wait for another country to come along and force your government to change? Or would you do it yourself? And remember, YOU aren’t the only one in your country.

    There are too many variables to address this. It would depend. If I were living under a dictatorship, and another country could “rescue” me, then, yeah. I would like that. If I can’t defend myself against an intruder, I would welcome someone with a gun who COULD rescue me. Do you honestly think that most countries can rise up against a dictatorship without tons of blood being spilled?

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    If YOU don’t like what you have here right now, then perhaps YOU should buy that ticket.

    Sorry, but *I* am not supporting the guy who wants to “fundamentally transform” America. You are.

  29. 29
    bloodyspartan growls and barks:

    DJ

    Where did I say we are an empire. The is the Last thing we Need. Maybe we agree on something after all.

    Growing up I read 2-3 books a day on history and the patterns are always the same.

    All civilizations short of natural Disasters are predictable and preventable.

    Personally I believe that we leave the World alone. Except Desireable or beautiful women.

    But yet we control the High Ground .. SPACE Musliim Cooperation of course accepted.

    And Fuck with No ONe.. But when you have a shit load of traitorous scum on both sides making us self defecient
    in everthing we are doomed.
    Those Old Fucks restricted us to nothing. It was all about our RIGHTS and the restrictions were on the Government.

    The Declaration of Independence obligates us legally and Morally to remove all Corrupt Governments and pass on to our children and descendants a better life and Government. Read it but understand it.

    Those OLD FUCKS risked everything.. What are we risking?

    You say we have enough maybe , if we stop covering the world’s assholes. But Hey Your boy promised change and now you have more wars bleeding our military dry.
    Cowardly Officers.

    As King I fire everyone over the rank of Lt.Col. or service equivalent. They are not much more than Politicos.
    What that low life uttered after the Massacre at the Army Fort was Treasonous.

    Diversity my ASS.

    Sincw we produce very little hardware any more and the EPA , congress have shortchanged Americans in about every basic necessity something must be don. We have needs as a nation and without them we die.

    Why in the name of GOD do we not produce all our energy.

    The last bit of manufacturing we have left is Military RR proved when you spend the money there you grow. I know I saw how many folks worked in real jobs when I built the Warthog.

    Real Technical manufacturing Jobs. Not paper pushing civil service make work Baby killing , Old Folk euthanasia

    Who cares if we never use it be prepared. I thinik you are blind and the rest of America is making excuses. You are not a stupid person just illogical and emotional.

    Use the Steel , use the Aluminum, Plastic Electronics, and on and on.
    Recycly it when we are done but we have way too many parasites bleeding us dry,

    But we are on a slide to Barbarism and you have no idea how to stop it do you. We will be slaves while Carp Pollute the Great lakes.

    Oh well if you cannot stop the Mexicans crossing the Border why worry about some useless fish. Try buying a light bulb that lasts or works.

    Empire Fuck EM, but I still want to be the Right Wing Dictator of the Most Heavily Armed Populace in the Fucking Galaxy.

  30. 30
    LC_Salgak growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    LC_Salgak says:
    No, the first consideration in a war is whether it is necessary.

    Funny how that hasn’t been the consideration yet. You cannot manufacture a lie and then promote how necessary a war is going to be — and that is what we’ve been doing.

    No, DJ Allyn says that hasn’t been a consideration. Many, many others conclude differently. I seem to recall an attack in September 2001, perhaps you do as well. . .

  31. 31
    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder growls and barks:

    We could take the rest of the money and spend it on our infrastructure to actually BE the superpower everyone envies

    O-M-F’N-G-D!!! If I hear one more liberal say that so help me I am going to come unhinged.

    Fact check DJ.

    I can leave Providence RI on the AMTRACK and be in the nations Capital in 8 hours. I’ll pass metropolitan areas like, Hartford CT, NYC, Philadelphia, Camden, Annapolis…at any point long the way I can jump off the train and wander to my hearts content should I choose to do so. Done it, although I strongly caution against wandering around Camden… That’s reality.

    I can fly out of TYS and be all points north, south east or west in a matter of hours, Jackbooted HS dropout TSA perverted goons fouling up the process not withstanding. Done it.

    Should I not feel like driving, hell I could probably go down the road a piece and hire a piper cub jockey at the local air strip to ferry my lazy ass to the Hartsfield / Atlanta Terminal and fly any where in the US, or the world for that matter, That’ reality.

    I can jump on the I-26 and go from the SC/GA border area to TN in 6.5 hours, trans-versing 3 states borders on 3 major interstates, and 1 secondary route. Done it, doing it. That’s reality.

    I can head north from my home in TN on 25 E, a secondary route, into the Appalachian mountains one of the most economically depressed regions in the country, yet the roads support my 8000 lb dually, the bridges stand strong, and I get where I am going and get to admire some pretty damn nice scenery along the way Along the way I’ll be crossing the borders of VA, KY, and W.VA, and be in my boy hood home in OH in a measly 8 hours. Done it. That’s reality.

    I can leave West Palm Beach FL and shoot up I-95 and arrive in VA Beach VA in 13 hours, DC in 15, NY in about 18 and Providence RI in about 24. Done it, Brutal drive but I did it. That’s fucking reality.

    Speaking of Appalachia, I can WALK the entire fucking Appalachian trail from north to south if I so choose to do, just like the early settlers that blazed the way. Ain’t done it, but I could if I so desire. That’s reality.

    I can roam around TN and follow Daniel Boones footsteps almost to the inch. Ain’t done It, But I could, that’s reality.

    I can get on I-40 and drive damn near a straight line to Seattle and stick a size 12 up your bung hole for being a Annoying DNC talking points parrot. Ain’t done it….yet. That’s reality.

    And guess what else the reality of the situation is….Along the way I will find roads some better some worse, bridges, highways, by-ways, and ample supplies of fuel, food, rest areas, hotels, bars, shopping centers, tourist traps, truck stops, hookers, beer, the worlds biggest ball of twine, and assorted other life’s pleasures. Will I hit a pot hole or two on the way, you betcha. Shit happens.

    I wake up in the morning and amble off to my mailbox and my bills are waiting yet again That sucks, but that’s reality. Thanks USPS.

    I turn on my tap and I get clear clean water to cook, clean and drink. Don’t give it much thought as to where that water is coming from most of the time, but 99.9% of the country does the exact same thing.

    I flip a switch and my lights come on, I grumble about the bill but the ‘infrastructure’ that allows that to happen works 99.99 % of the time.

    I surf the intertubes on a pipe that DARPA could only image in their wildest wet dream fantasy back in the day. That’s reality.

    What isn’t reality is people whining and bitching about how the entire country needs to be rebuilt, that our “infrastructure” (the very same infrastructure that allows me to do the things listed above and about a bazillion more…) is “crumbling”, that we have to gut the military and then spend spend spend spend to make it all better.

    That talking point is AKA as “shell out billions upon trillions of the tax payers dollars to useless fuckwads making 29.00 a fucking hour standing around the latest D.O.T Boondoggle waving a little orange flag because the god damn union says that is what they deserve to make while lil Johnie watches his last chance to break free of dogpatch melt because he can’t even have the option of serving his country gaining valuable skills and making something of his life.

    So spare us all the”infrastructure” hysterics next time. Reality says different.
    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder recently posted..The end of the roadMy Profile

  32. 32
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    What country have we EVER forced to accept democracy?

    Iraq. Afghanistan. Two recent ones that I am fairly certain you remember.

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    There are too many variables to address this.

    And yet you invited ME to move. I responded only because it was pretty silly suggestion.

    While we are on the topic of moving if a person doesn’t like things, there are quite a few people who move here and decide they want to change things HERE. Why the hell didn’t they stay where the were at and make those changes there? Why come here in the first place if they were so unhappy with the status quo? It’s just an observation I’ve had for a long time.

    LC Grammar Czar, G.L.O.R. says:

    If I can’t defend myself against an intruder, I would welcome someone with a gun who COULD rescue me.

    Rescue yourself. The best revolutions are those initiated and fought by yourself. You will then have skin in the game. An investment. Having someone else do all of the heavy lifting doesn’t give you ownership, and it usually ends up about as bad as it was before.

    You only need to look at Iraq and Afghanistan to realize this is true. As soon as we are gone, all hell will break loose. It has started in Iraq, and Afghanistan will be even worse. These are people who are going to have to stir things up themselves before they settle on a system they like. It will probably be bloody, and they may split up into different nations. And they may choose a system of government that you will not like or approve of.

    But that is their business, not ours. OUR best bet is to let them have their own head and just let things be. Be like the Swiss — impartial.

    bloodyspartan says:

    Where did I say we are an empire.

    It is what our military is geared towards. We insert ourselves everywhere we feel we have a say.

    I will try to pick this up later. Gotta work some more…
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..Somebody Else ~ Jeff BridgesMy Profile

  33. 33
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    Rescue yourself. The best revolutions are those initiated and fought by yourself. You will then have skin in the game. An investment. Having someone else do all of the heavy lifting doesn’t give you ownership, and it usually ends up about as bad as it was before.

    Yeah. Just ask the Japanese. Boy did the U.S. ever shoot itself in the foot by trying to force them away from their Imperial ways and worship of their Emperor.

    Oh wait…

    Be like the Swiss — impartial.

    Shall we also launder all the dirty money in the world, not to mention all of the wealth stolen from Jews in Europe by the Third Reich as well?

    Impartiality is an illusion.

  34. 34
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    File this one in the “no surprise there” cabinet.

    jugears’ policies are as empty, hollow, and lacking in substance as he is.

  35. 35
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Hail Citizen Deej,, master of the “progressive” cartoon argument! :em07:

  36. 36

    Before I get into reading the comments, this has to be fucking corrected.

    Administration officials have said they expect Army and Marine Corp personnel

    It’s CORPS you fucking illiterate dumbfuck asswipe!!! :em08: The USMC is not a damned corporation. It’s a CORPS of Marines. Look it up, just don’t use the Ogabe edition of the dictionary. He thinks our wounded Marines are tended to by zombies after all.
    LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. recently posted..Anybody Watch the Debate Last Night?My Profile

  37. 37
    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder growls and barks:

    It is what our military is geared towards. We insert ourselves everywhere we feel we have a say.

    You are SUCH a fucking idiot somedays DJ..I swear even for a god damn mealy mouth liberal you are just plain fucking STUPID.

    Anyone with lick of common sense knows damn full and well that the military is geared for one thing…breaking shit and killing people…most of those people DESERVE it…so shut your fucking pie hole dickhead…
    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder recently posted..The end of the roadMy Profile

  38. 38
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC 0311 Sir Crunchie I.M.H., K.o.E. says:

    The USMC is not a damned corporation.

    Not yet at least. Give it time, someone will want to privatize that as well…

    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder says:

    You are SUCH a fucking idiot somedays DJ..I swear even for a god damn mealy mouth liberal you are just plain fucking STUPID.

    Really? Because I have an opinion that is different than yours?

    LC CiSSnarl5.7 Chariot Builder says:

    Anyone with lick of common sense knows damn full and well that the military is geared for one thing…breaking shit and killing people…most of those people DESERVE it…so shut your fucking pie hole dickhead…

    Hey shitstain (you won’t mind if I call you that, will you?), before you take offense over my opinion of HOW our military is being used, understand that it is not our military that makes the decisions of what it does or where it goes.

    The fact that we have such a large — and in my opinion, TOO LARGE — of a military, indicates that our POLICIES are misguided, and that those who use the military are doing so for empire and not defense.

    I would like to see a much smaller and smarter military. I don’t want one that can take on the entire world at one time, several times over. It only encourages our “leaders” to use the military more, and insert ourselves into things we don’t really have any business inserting ourselves in. I could give a shit whether a Saddam Hussein is abusing his people or overrunning Kuwait. I don’t give a crap about communists in Grenada, Vietnam or Korea. I don’t care about nukes in Iran, or cavemen in Afghanistan. What I DO care about is whatever goes on inside of OUR borders, and let every other country deal with their own problems. Use our military for exactly what it was intended for — to protect us here in the US.

    When you can find me something in the Constitution that says our military is to be used for carrying on wars for corporations or industries outside of the US, then I will change my opinion. But the facts remain, we have been using our military to fight wars and influence other countries for the purpose of industry and corporations. None of that reflects on the military itself, but the people who wrongly USE our military for those purposes.

    Now are we done calling each other names yet?
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..Uneasy Rider ~ Charlie DanielsMy Profile

  39. 39
    LC Patton growls and barks:

    The fact that we have such a large — and in my opinion, TOO LARGE — of a military, indicates that our POLICIES are misguided, and that those who use the military are doing so for empire and not defense. I would like to see a much smaller and smarter military. I don’t want one that can take on the entire world at one time, several times over. It only encourages our “leaders” to use the military more, and insert ourselves into things we don’t really have any business inserting ourselves in. .

    On the contrary, it is a weak defense that creates war. It was the perception that the UK was too weak to defend the Falklands that made Galtieri think he could launch the Falklands War. It was the belief that Korea was outside the US defense perimeter that encouraged Kim Il-Sung to invade South Korea. It was the belief that the US would not intervene that encouraged Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait. And it was the belief that the US was too weak-willed to fight back effectively that encouraged Bin Laden to attack the United States.

    I could give a shit whether a Saddam Hussein is abusing his people or overrunning Kuwait.

    Ah, so you aren’t stupid, you’re heartless and stupid. Thank you for clarifying. Unlike you, most non-sociopaths feel something when their fellow men are being abused by a ruthless tyrant.

    I don’t give a crap about communists in Grenada, Vietnam or Korea.

    Because it isn’t like not opposing the commies might have encouraged them to attack more nations. Look how well not opposing the fascists worked out.

    I don’t care about nukes in Iran,

    Because there is no conceivable way that nukes in Iran could reach the United States. They couldn’t be smuggled through our porous southern border, or loaded into a ship or minisub and detonated in the harbor of a US city. Nor, for that matter, is there any way they could be fired into the United States, not even by these newfangled “Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles” I hear about. And a nuclear war in the Middle east would definitely not send oil prices skyrocketing, crippling the world economy and making the Great Depression look like a joke. No, of course not.

    or cavemen in Afghanistan.

    Because there is no way that those cavemen could hurt Americans. I mean, they couldn’t for example ram planes into buildings killing thousands, or detonate bombs here. No serious person would believe they could do that.

    What I DO care about is whatever goes on inside of OUR borders, and let every other country deal with their own problems. Use our military for exactly what it was intended for — to protect us here in the US.

    Yes, the military was only intended to protect us here in the US. It’s not like say, Thomas Jefferson would send US Marines abroad to fight in North Africa… oh wait.

    When you can find me something in the Constitution that says our military is to be used for carrying on wars for corporations or industries outside of the US, then I will change my opinion.

    Because the Constitution clearly states that the US military must only be used to defend our borders. It’s right there next to the article that tells DJ to listen to the voices in his head. For your information, the entire GDP of Afghanistan is 28 billion dollars. We could steal everything that Afghanistan makes in a year and it would be pocket change for the United States. So the idea that somehow this war is all for the benefit of corporations is utterly ridiculous. Looting the third world is no way to get rich; there just isn’t enough money in most third world nations to make even a tiny difference to US companies.

    But the facts remain, we have been using our military to fight wars and influence other countries for the purpose of industry and corporations.

    Facts in this case meaning “things the voices in DJ’s head tell him.”

    None of that reflects on the military itself, but the people who wrongly USE our military for those purposes.

    At least follow through on your accusations. If the US military was indeed being used as a tool to extract money from other nations on behalf of corporations as you allege, than the people who freely volunteered to fight in the US military would be doing a monstrously evil thing. That follows logically from your allegations. If you are going to accuse US veterans of being thugs for big business be honest about it.

  40. 40
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC Patton says:

    On the contrary, it is a weak defense that creates war. It was the perception that the UK was too weak to defend the Falklands that made Galtieri think he could launch the Falklands War. It was the belief that Korea was outside the US defense perimeter that encouraged Kim Il-Sung to invade South Korea. It was the belief that the US would not intervene that encouraged Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait. And it was the belief that the US was too weak-willed to fight back effectively that encouraged Bin Laden to attack the United States.

    ALL conflicts that we had no business in. What part don’t you understand about that?

    We could have had bin laden within weeks of his attack and been done with it. But Bush needed bin Laden to be out there as the boogie man.

    But let’s look at bin Laden’s stated reasons for his attack on the US, shall we? (after all, he is the one who made the attack, we probably should have paid attention to his reasoning, such as it was)

    According to bin Laden, he didn’t like the idea that we were backing the Saudi government with military commitments and having a military base on Saudi land. He also didn’t like that in exchange for that, the Saudis were giving us cheap oil. He felt that the oil should have gone for at least $100 per barrel, instead of $22 per barrel. (he certainly got his wish there, didn’t he?) As an aside, it was the cheap Saudi oil that caused oil companies to cap wells here in this country because they could get the oil much cheaper from the Saudis.

    Understand that bin Laden had a long history of being against the Saudi government and they had kicked his ass out and stripped him of his citizenship and birthright. He had an axe to grind with the Saudis and he saw us as supporting his enemy. Just as the enemy of my enemy is my friend, the friend of my enemy is probably my enemy.

    If we hadn’t gotten involved in the First Gulf War against Saddam, and if we hadn’t sited a military base inside Saudi Arabia, bringing our culture and women who were allowed to drive and show elbows and ankles, bin Laden never would have bothered with us. It was exactly because we have had a tendency to involve us in the bullshit of the Middle East — often times using and fucking over people in the process that we end up having to pay further on down the road.

    Remember, Osama bin Laden was trained and supported by us at one time. So was Saddam. Both were rumored to be on the CIA payroll. Osama was Blowback. So was Saddam. So are dozens of other despots we’ve supported over the years.

    It still boils down to this one thing: WE KEEP MEDDLING WHERE WE SHOULDN”T BE MEDDLING. PERIOD. END.

    We don’t need military in the Middle East unless we are actually fighting a war that has been legally declared. No police actions. No protection. No UN “Peace Keeping” force. We don’t need a base in Germany. I doubt Poland is going to invade them — and if they did, let Germany deal with it.

    We can keep our own military — make most of it Reservists. Keep a strong defense, but right here. We have missiles with nuclear warheads for anything more than that.

    LC Patton says:

    At least follow through on your accusations. If the US military was indeed being used as a tool to extract money from other nations on behalf of corporations as you allege, than the people who freely volunteered to fight in the US military would be doing a monstrously evil thing. That follows logically from your allegations. If you are going to accuse US veterans of being thugs for big business be honest about it.

    Are you supposed to question your orders? I am guessing not.

    Our government isn’t going to come out and tell you that we are going to war at the request of Mobil Oil or BP. Instead, they will make up reasons like Saddam’s nuclear program will soon be that mushroom, or Saddam is brutal to his people, or that Saddam is manufacturing stockpiles of WMD and is an eminent threat to his neighbors and by extension, the US. And that is exactly what the Bush administration did — they sold a war based on lies, (or as some of you like to comfort yourself with, “information they knew at the time)

    It was a lie. Everyone involved told us it was a lie. Remember “Curveball”? It was a fucking HOAX. Yet the Red, White, and Blue patriotic chest beating that went on in this country between 2002 and 2006 couldn’t bring themselves to see that they were being played for suckers by the Bush administration. Some of you STILL can’t see it and probably never will.

    And for your information, I have not accused US veterans of being “thugs” for big business or for our government. Being “thugs” would indicate a voluntary acceptance of being “thugs”. Instead, our military was doing exactly what it was told to do — no more, no less.

    Following orders that are not supposed to be questioned. There is nothing wrong with that. The blame is NOT with the military, it is with the people who use that military for the wrong reasons.

    This is what the Right has not been able to understand ever since the beginning of this shit. The Right seems to conflate disagreeing with government policy with being against the troops.. My problem has always been with the POLICY, not those carrying out the action.

    It is also the same with my criticism with Israel. I have never been against Israel, just their government’s policies. For the record, I am also against the government policies of Iran, but not the people of Iran — especially since I have familial ties to Iran.

    Is any of this sinking in?
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..Uneasy Rider ~ Charlie DanielsMy Profile

  41. 41
    LC Patton growls and barks:

    ALL conflicts that we had no business in. What part don’t you understand about that?

    Millions would have suffered had we not fought those wars. Protecting millions of people is our business. What part of that don’t you understand? Oh right, the part where you would have to be a non-sociopath.

    We could have had bin laden within weeks of his attack and been done with it. But Bush needed bin Laden to be out there as the boogie man.

    You know this, of course, since you are an expert in intelligence and special forces work. Oh wait, you don’t’ know this, you are just talking out of your ass.

    But let’s look at bin Laden’s stated reasons for his attack on the US, shall we? (after all, he is the one who made the attack, we probably should have paid attention to his reasoning, such as it was)
    According to bin Laden, he didn’t like the idea that we were backing the Saudi government with military commitments and having a military base on Saudi land. He also didn’t like that in exchange for that, the Saudis were giving us cheap oil. He felt that the oil should have gone for at least $100 per barrel, instead of $22 per barrel. (he certainly got his wish there, didn’t he?) As an aside, it was the cheap Saudi oil that caused oil companies to cap wells here in this country because they could get the oil much cheaper from the Saudis.
    Understand that bin Laden had a long history of being against the Saudi government and they had kicked his ass out and stripped him of his citizenship and birthright. He had an axe to grind with the Saudis and he saw us as supporting his enemy. Just as the enemy of my enemy is my friend, the friend of my enemy is probably my enemy.
    If we hadn’t gotten involved in the First Gulf War against Saddam, and if we hadn’t sited a military base inside Saudi Arabia, bringing our culture and women who were allowed to drive and show elbows and ankles, bin Laden never would have bothered with us.

    And he also said this:
    “The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty God, “and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,” and “fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God.”
    The Al-Aqsa mosque isn’t in Saudi Arabia, moron. And he gives still completely different reasons in other documents. And if Bin Laden’s hatred of us is all about the Saudis, how come Al-Qaeda has barely been active in Saudi Arabia but has been very active against the United States? Bin Laden’s blaming his attacks on the US on US presence in Saudi Arabia is pure propaganda designed to try to get the US to pull out of the Middle East using gullible fools like you.

    Remember, Osama bin Laden was trained and supported by us at one time. So was Saddam.

    No, Saddam never had any significant US aid. The tanks, planes and weapons of Saddam’s Iraq where supplied mostly by the Soviet Union and France.

    Both were rumored to be on the CIA payroll.

    And the CIA is rumored to have captured UFOs and assassinated Kennedy. A lot of stupid things are rumored.

    Osama was Blowback. So was Saddam. So are dozens of other despots we’ve supported over the years.

    Osama didn’t use any US training to launch 9/11, he came up with that idea all on his own, and he was already highly motivated against the US. It wasn’t “Blowback,” nor was Saddam, who came to power on his own and never benefitted from significant US aid.

    It still boils down to this one thing: WE KEEP MEDDLING WHERE WE SHOULDN”T BE MEDDLING. PERIOD. END.

    Shockingly, typing IN ALL CAPS doesn’t make your argument any more convincing.

    We can keep our own military — make most of it Reservists. Keep a strong defense, but right here. We have missiles with nuclear warheads for anything more than that.

    Because nothing bad could possible come from relying heavily on nuclear missiles. It isn’t like that could start a nuclear exchange that could wipe out the human race… oh shit, it could.

    Saddam is brutal to his people,

    True, as it happens

    is an eminent threat to his neighbors and by extension, the US.

    Also true.

    Everyone involved told us it was a lie.

    Christ, some interesting things go on in your head, you should let the rest of us in on it.

    It was a fucking HOAX.

    Oh no, the dreaded ALL CAPS! Shockingly, the swearing doesn’t make your argument any more effective either. And even if true, so what? A sinister dictator was brought to justice and we pulled Al-Qaeda into battle in a place we could kill them much more easily than in Afghanistan. Why should I be sad about that?

    This is what the Right has not been able to understand ever since the beginning of this shit. The Right seems to conflate disagreeing with government policy with being against the troops.. My problem has always been with the POLICY, not those carrying out the action.

    An idiotic non-argument. Saying “I’m not against the troops, I just think everything they do is total evil” is the height of stupidity.

  42. 42
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC Patton says:

    Millions would have suffered had we not fought those wars. Protecting millions of people is our business. What part of that don’t you understand? Oh right, the part where you would have to be a non-sociopath.

    Again, none of our business.

    I know that it sounds “heartless” or even “sociopathic”, but it isn’t OUR responsibility, not when it is dragging us down in the process. It is high time that some other nation step up and become the world’s cop for a change. We have our own problems to deal with.

    Sometimes it is best to let these places duke it out among themselves. Saddam may have been one brutal motherfucker, but he created stability in the region. Taking him out has made Iran stronger. Take Iran out and you make someone else stronger, maybe even Iraq again. But none of that should matter to us — except for the oil in the region.

    If I actually thought that opening up every square inch of land here in this country for drilling would get us off of Middle East oil and completely out of that hairy region altogether, I would say “go fer it” in a heart beat. As long as every drop of oil we pull out of the ground here was refined and used right here at home — and not tied to the speculation on world oil prices. But that will never happen. Not when oil companies can sell oil overseas and manipulate supply to keep the cost high.

    Sorry to skip ahead but I am quickly becoming bored….

    LC Patton says:

    An idiotic non-argument. Saying “I’m not against the troops, I just think everything they do is total evil” is the height of stupidity.

    An idiotic interpretation of what I said. THAT is stupid.
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  43. 43
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    Sometimes it is best to let these places duke it out among themselves.

    Yes. But not when one of “those places” happens to sit on something of strategic importance to us. And when they, to top it off, openly and blatantly, finance mass murderers massacring citizens of one of our most important allies, then it becomes our business.

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    Saddam may have been one brutal motherfucker, but he created stability in the region.

    And he made the trains run on time too! Unless you happened to be Shi’ite, in which case you wouldn’t need a train at all, being dead and everything. But that’s not the point. If you consider “stability” being a situation where a dictator signs checks for anyone murdering the kids of our single most important ally in the Middle East, then you need a new dictionary.

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    Taking him out has made Iran stronger.

    No. Taking him out while pretending that Iran isn’t a threat has made Iran stronger. Declaring ourselves an “observer” to the Iranian version of Tienanmen Square while wasting a billion bucks giving the Pisslamist Brotherhood the head gang position in Libya to replace a pussy who was wetting his pants just thinking about what we might do to him made pisslamist terrorists stronger.

    Heckuva job, Barry.

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    Take Iran out and you make someone else stronger, maybe even Iraq again. But none of that should matter to us — except for the oil in the region.

    Well that’s the whole point, now isn’t it? Put the whole damn region on notice that we can take them out and that we will if they piss in our corn flakes.

    And maybe hint to them that pretending to be human, at the very least, might make it less likely that we’ll turn them into glowing glass at some unspecified point in the future.

    I’m fine with that.

    If they want to sit around in their caves telling tall tales about the Evil Joooos to frighten their grandkids into eating their veggies, I don’t really have a problem with that, just like I don’t really have a problem with them being unable to establish erotic relationships with anything that isn’t a farm animal or a close relative. If that’s what they want to be remembered by, then so be it.

    If they start strapping bombs to those grandkids so they can go blow up innocent people, on the other hand.

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    If I actually thought that opening up every square inch of land here in this country for drilling would get us off of Middle East oil and completely out of that hairy region altogether, I would say “go fer it” in a heart beat. As long as every drop of oil we pull out of the ground here was refined and used right here at home — and not tied to the speculation on world oil prices. But that will never happen. Not when oil companies can sell oil overseas and manipulate supply to keep the cost high.

    Because, as we all know, oil is not fungible, increasing the supply does not lower price, because global oil prices are all manipulated by some sinister group who happened to skip by the chapter about volume of sales in their textbooks.

    Which, by the way, is why oil prices drop and fall based on mere rumors about future supplies or threats to supplies. Because those evil Bilderbergers have bought an exception to the law of supply and demand and will stop short of nothing to protect it.

    Not to mention that, if we were to stop Ogabe’s permitorium and become totally self-sufficient, we could FINALLY get to the point where we could TRULY tell the rest of the world to fuck off and die.

    Wasn’t that your initial point?

    Oops. Sorry.
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  44. 44

    Not to mention that, if we were to stop Ogabe’s permitorium and become totally self-sufficient, we could FINALLY get to the point where we could TRULY tell the rest of the world to fuck off and die.

    But we have to accomplish that by powering cars and aircraft on UNICORN FARTS!!!!

    Afterall, the government has set TARGET GOALS!!! We all know the reason why we haven’t done it already is a consipiracy of the oil companies and not the fact that scientific advances cannot be made to follow a time line.

    Geeeeezzzz.
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  45. 45
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    We could have had bin laden within weeks of his attack and been done with it. But Bush needed bin Laden to be out there as the boogie man.

    Please provide a credible source supporting this statement. Cause me thinketh you are fulleth of teh shiteth…

  46. 46
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    We could have had bin laden within weeks of his attack and been done with it. But Bush needed bin Laden to be out there as the boogie man.

    We could have had Bin Laden well before September 11th, 2001 but Billy Blowjob was too busy bombing Christians in Serbia and boinking pudgy interns less than half his age for kicks.

    By the way, America’s business is wherever and whenever the fuck it pleases.

    PS: Do yourself a favor Deej and quit polluting your mind with that isolationist, Lew Rockwell, prison planet, conspiratorial garbage you’re barfing up on this thread or at least realize that it for entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously. I think you are genuinely a good person and I don’t want to see you end up like Jesse Ventura wandering around and jabbering like a crackhead.

  47. 47
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Citizen Deej, Argumentator In Chief, did assert:

    We could have had bin laden within weeks of his attack and been done with it. But Bush needed bin Laden to be out there as the boogie man.

    Well, that’s a new one! :em04:

    What I’ve heard is that certain of our Afghan allies had a problem with fighting the next batch of locals & rebelled–or something like that. Been Slobberin’ skedaddled.

  48. 48
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen growls and barks:

    LC Xystus says:

    Well, that’s a new one!

    Not new at all. Aside from the fact that we literally let the guy get away at Tora Bora, the Taliban were more than willing to give his ass up to the Hague and Bush said no.

    Bush showed almost zero interest in capturing bin Laden for most of his term, even though most people KNEW he was probably hiding in Pakistan. Hell, Bush probably knew exactly where he was all the entire time. The thing is, if Osama bin Laden had been captured or killed at any time during Bush’s term, then that WOT debacle would have come to a grinding halt — pretty much as it is doing right now. The public would no longer support that open-ended “Long War” horseshit any longer.
    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen recently posted..America ~ Simon and GarfunkelMy Profile

  49. 49
    LC Gladiator growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    Not new at all. Aside from the fact that we literally let the guy get away at Tora Bora, the Taliban were more than willing to give his ass up to the Hague and Bush said no.
    Bush showed almost zero interest in capturing bin Laden for most of his term, even though most people KNEW he was probably hiding in Pakistan. Hell, Bush probably knew exactly where he was all the entire time

    DJ, according to Mansour Jiaz, he PERSONALLY offered Bin Laden to Clinton THREE TIMES !!!!!!!!!!! Clinton refused

  50. 50
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    Bush showed almost zero interest in capturing bin Laden for most of his term,

    How in the fuck can you claim to have any knowledge of what Bush was or was not interested in? Unless your ass was seated in the briefing rooms everyday you have no reasonable basis for your statement. Its nothing more than your politically motivated speculation.

    DJ Allyn, Private Citizen says:

    even though most people KNEW he was probably hiding in Pakistan

    No “most people” didn’t KNOW shit. Some may have suspected that OBL was hiding in Pockystan and suspected it was in the border zone but it was nothing but suspicion. I just don’t see how you can sit and make your speculative statements and expect to maintain any intellectual credibility.