Is There Some Vital Nuance We’re Missing Here?

You know, with this whole Egypt thing that we’ve kind of sort of following out of the corner of our Imperial Eye.

We mean, we know we’re far too simplisme (for the likes of Jacques ChIRAQ anyway) and that we lack the vital nuancing skills that seem to mean “whatever you do, make sure it doesn’t make an actual difference”, but it seems quite simple to us.

Correct us if we’re wrong. The Muslim Brotherhood are staging violent riots, uprising and revolts because they don’t much like this whole civilization thing with all of its indoor plumbing, bans on raping your first cousins etc. For those who’ve been sleeping in class, the Muslim Brotherhood are among the Original Bad Guys™, the proto-pisslamofascists that got the whole “back to the middle ages” ball running among the followers of Muhammed the Pedo-Prophet.

The one they’re trying to oust, so they can bring Egypt back to the lovely days of savagery that other highly successful nations such as Afghanistan and the Sudan are currently enjoying, is Hosni Mubarak who, granted, isn’t high on our Christmas Card list but who does have the whole “Not a Barbaric, Savage, Pisslamofascist Cave-Dweller” going for him.

So, really, where’s the holdup? No, Hosni isn’t exactly a paragon of democracy but, hey, at the risk of repeating ourself, he’s also not likely to be an active backer of plots to set off nukes in Lower Manhattan.

Yes, we also know that he hasn’t been near as hard on the pisslamofascists in his country as we’d like, he’s been straddling the fence trying to avoid pissing off anybody by pissing off everybody, and look how that’s working out for him.

So, once again: Why is this so far beyond anybody’s ken to figure out a proper response to, because we’re not seeing it.

We send in the guys with the big spanking sticks, help Mubarak eradicate the Muslim Brotherhood and their buddies and then, once the dust has settled, we’ve reinstalled one of our puppets safely, we’ve gotten rid of a shitload of subhumans who should have been gotten rid of a long time ago AND we can place a note with “YOU OWE US FUCKING BIG TIME, HOSNI-BABY!” on his desk.

Downsides? We mean, other than the usual “child-murdering, fanatic, savage pisslamic subhumans are people too and we mustn’t hurt their feelings or their ‘rights’”, because that one you might as well not bother committing to type.

Discuss.

Thatisall.

35 comments

  1. 1
    LC Ogrrre growls and barks:

    Yer Majesty, you talk as though splodeydopes setting off a nuke in Lower Manhattan would be a bad thing. Did you think that through? It has several good points going for it, to wit: it will get rid of a shit load of liberals, it will get rid of a shit load of damn yankees, and it could possible wake up the left over liberals to the danger that is Pislamofascism … unless they do their knee-jerk “blame it on BushCheneyPalinRove thing.

  2. 2
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC Ogrrre says:

    Yer Majesty, you talk as though splodeydopes setting off a nuke in Lower Manhattan would be a bad thing. Did you think that through?

    Well, we DO have a number of very good friends living in the vicinity and, besides, even if that weren’t the case, with the hirabis’ known propensity for fucking up, they might just hit a valuable target by mistake.

    LC Ogrrre says:

    and it could possible wake up the left over liberals to the danger that is Pislamofascism

    9/11 didn’t seem to do much of that, as I recall.

  3. 3

    what I think we’re seeing here is the total entrapment of Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood and Iran are making their move, doing it by making a grab at Egypt….Jordan….Lebanon….thus completely surrounding Israel. They know that obama won’t do anything to stop them, nor will he commit to defending Israel…..their timing couldn’t be better.

    Here’s a little map I whipped together to make my point more graphically

  4. 4

    crap…..nothing like typing the damned link incorrectly….

    here it is again

  5. 5
    LC Ogrrre growls and barks:

    9/11 didn’t seem to do much of that, as I recall.

    Sure it did, for about 20 seconds, then they hit the snooze alarm. But, if the hirabis actually destroyed The New York Times, and the main offices of the Left Stream Media, they might stay awake for a little while longer this time.

  6. 6
    LC Old Dog growls and barks:

    Sire, I bend my head in despair. It is clear that you have missed “The Narrative”, we must never say anything that might even upset in any manner a Muslim person.

    You know like what we should be saying like. Wahabism Delinda Est!

    The Copts are the original Egyptians who built the Pyramids, the Arabs Muslims are ******g Invaders.

    Never forget Saladin the great Muslim General was a KURD!

  7. 7
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Last I heard, the Botherhood came late to the party. They complicate things, but evicting the superannuated Maximum Leader & his flunkies could turn into an improvement. The whole flap would still have occurred without the Long-Bearded Clowns, & they may yet remain outside any new regime (or new version of the old, military-dominated order).

  8. 8
    LC PrimEviL growls and barks:

    Any bets on how long it will take for the MSM to blame Bush? er. . .wait. . . They already did.

  9. 9
    LC PrimEviL growls and barks:

    Predictably, Obumbles makes it about himself.

    When I was in Cairo shortly after I was elected president, I said….[snip]

    Gee, he only got three “I’s” in thirteen words.

    But first, he supports the rioters:

    So I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters.

    The people of Egypt have rights that are universal. That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere.

    ??Peacefull protesters??? What kind of goggles is this guy wearing; and where was the
    stand for Human Rights when the Iranian regime was murdering and brutalizing the protesters? Oh, forgive me, those
    were pro democracy demonstrators.

  10. 10
    BigDogg growls and barks:

    A good number of us make note of the similarities between Obonzo’s administration and the Now Second Worst President in the History of the US, Dhimmi Cardigan … does anyone else see some remarkable similarities between what’s happening now in Egypt (and Odumbo’s lack of decisive response) and what went down in Iran during Carter’s failed presidency? Will Egypt become the next Mullahtocracy?

  11. 11
    Sir Fresh Sign growls and barks:

    one nuance i cannot fathom is El Baradei, who is siding with the streets, yet he is held up as an OBJECTIVE player in the Nuclear Non Proliferation IAEA world, as it pertains to Iran?! I just don’t get it… if this is his position, how can we look back at his statements of the past and take them seriously?

  12. 12
    Sir Fresh Sign growls and barks:

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/Dozens-dead-as-thousands-escape-Egypt-prisons/Article1-656494.aspx

    Great, a bunch of Palestinian prisoners escaped from egyptian prison and have made their way back to Gaza.

  13. 13
    LC PrimEviL growls and barks:

    Worse, It seems some of the top dogs of the Muslim Brotherhood got to take a walk, as well. This definitely is not going well.

  14. 14
    Library Czar growls and barks:

    First thing I noticed was that Ogabe sided with the protesters.

  15. 15
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Hey, I have a idea… how about we develop and use our own fucking oil! That way we don’t really have to give a fuck what happens in the Mid East ( with the exception of Israel (who can handle themselves pretty well already). I am sick and fucking tired of having to be “concerned” about what the the humans in this region are up to because of our dependency on a resource that we already have, yet refuse to use.

    Outside of that, the only thing I would be willing to advocate regarding US involvement would be in the realm of securing the Suez.

  16. 16
    LC Guy S growls and barks:

    Posted on this yesterday. And have to agree with the comments above. This does remind me of the same fumblefucked … err … dimwitted shortsighted asshatery advanced by Billy Carter’s dumber brother. A lot of us military types wondered when we were going to take action to support the Shaw, then we wondered what steps we would take to get our people back. I am ashamed to admit Carter was in my Navy (and the nuke end of things at that). Just goes to show you may have the book smarts, but that counts for nothing if you do not have the common sense the Good Lord gave a maggots.

    So now Jimmah Carter’s “secret bastard child” (Hey the progressives start rumors about our guys all the time. Turn about is fair play. Carter is certainly old enough to have fathered Obambi, and they seem to have much the same mental outlook on things, specifically foreign policy, so why not?) sits in the oval office, and we have the beginnings of deja-vue all over again.

  17. 17
    Sir Fresh Sign growls and barks:

    does this mean we can stop sending millions of taxpayer dollars to this shithole?

  18. 18

    Just read an interesting post over at Pajamas Media that puts a different light on this whole thing. I won’t quote but will copy and paste it with a link to the post:

    here is a fourth possibility. The mass uprisings lead to a democratic government and an open media, and the Islamists, (including the schmucks who blame Israel and the USA for all the troubles in the world), are shown for the professional “grievance lobby” that they are.

    It took a shipmate of mine to remark that these protests to bring down tyrants and dictators is EXACTLY what George W. Bush TOLD us would happen with the establishment of a working democracy in Iraq.

    I’ve gummed it over all day, and the more I chew it, the more it tastes like the fruit of our victory in Iraq.

    The mass uprisings are taking place in the most westernized of Muslim nations, Tunisia, Egypt and Jordan, (and now Albania), PRECISELY BECAUSE being the most open societies, they are the ones where people have the most access to outside information and are free enough to communicate their common desires to have a say in the way their government runs…just like the Iraqis.

    Buck up gang, the War in Iraq has been won… this is what victory looks like. But the struggle to spread democracy throughout the Middle East has just opened several new fronts.

    Yes, this means that Islamist groups will have their say in these lands’ political discourse, and that means that we had better be engaged there also, supporting those factions that are more friendly to us and our interests.

    We will lose these battles by disengaging from what is happening and writing these popular uprisings off.

    And y’know, even if the uprisings and the overthrows were authored by Islamists, where is it written that WE cannot steal a revolution for our ends?

    I’m not sure that I agree with that yet, but it got me thinking.

  19. 19
    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An growls and barks:

    There are some important points to consider here.

    #7 LC Xystus

    Last I heard, the Botherhood came late to the party. They complicate things, but evicting the superannuated Maximum Leader & his flunkies could turn into an improvement. The whole flap would still have occurred without the Long-Bearded Clowns, & they may yet remain outside any new regime (or new version of the old, military-dominated order).

    When they came to the party is of less importance than the fact that they have joined in.

    The Muslim Brotherhood is everything that His Majesty said, and more. They have been operating underground for literally generations in Egypt [and pretty much everywhere else in the Sunni world, with occasional alliances with Shiites] for that time as a revolutionary force. They have been active enemies of Nasser, Sadat, and Mubarak. This is not like in hockey where if you get caught, you sit quietly in the penalty box for a few minutes. In addition to the standard Islamic ways of imposing the government will on those who are less than enthusiastic on the subject; they have imported foreign subject matter experts.

    Immediately after WW II, the Middle East, and Egypt in particular, was a regular stop on the ODESSA train; for a number of newly unemployed Germans who were looking for less dangerous and ideologically friendly climes where they could make use of their specialized skills. Keep in mind that the Arab Baath Party drew much from the NSDAP. Immediately after that era, Egypt was sponsored by the Soviets; who brought with them operatives from the Second and Fifth Chief Directorates to …. mentor … the home team.

    The Muslim Brotherhood has a strong, clandestine, cell-based organization dedicated to establishing their version of a worldwide Caliphate over not only the Dar Al Harb, but also over the entire Ummah. They really don’t care if either Infidel or Muslim agree with the process. And they have been operating despite the active opposition of the government’s first team for generations. And they have deeply infiltrated the Egyptian Army, up to Field Grade level. Keep in mind that it was Muslim Brotherhood Egyptian Army troops who turned a military parade into Anwar Sadat’s last day.

    It is the organization that counts.

    When the organic waste impacts the rotating airfoil to the point where people are willing to take on the government; since most civilians have no skill or interest in such matters normally; they fall naturally and pretty automatically into the arms of those who have a pre-existing organization and template for resistance. The most organized and widespread [and most ruthless] anti-government group in Egypt is the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Think Russia, 1917. The mass of the Russian people did not visualize the Marxist-Leninist horror that they ended up with as the result of overthrowing the Romanovs. If anything, most had something that was closer to Western Europe in mind. But the “Bolsheviks” [which means "majority" in Russian, which they very much were not. ] were both organized and ruthless. And they won, because they set the template for what followed in the face of feckless opposition.

    I’m pretty sure, that barring a successful attempt to recreate Tiananmen in Cairo and Suez; Mubarak is history. The question is who or what will succeed him? From the point of view of American interests [I know, that is a forbidden concept in American foreign policy], a non-MB Army coup would be the best that we could hope for. The odds are not good of that. Either immediately, or after a short-lived Ptolemaic equivalent of a Kerensky regime; the MB will have its hands on the levers of power.

    #10 BigDogg

    ElBaradei is both linked very strongly to the MB AND his wife is Iranian, I’ve heard with ties to the regime. He is loved by the American Left [ including Buraq Hussein] for his consistent opposition to the United States and support for the Islamic bomb. If he ends up as the puppet with the MB hand up his ass; you will see TIME, Newsweak, the NYT ["the Vanguard of the Fifth Column"], and the Jeffrey Immelt’s COMCASTGENBC conglomerate giving him the same treatment they always give new Soviet/Russian leaders, the heads of the KGB/FSB, and Chinese leaders. We will see pieces about how that he has always been a secret ‘small d democrat”, loves American jazz, etc. Any of the real results of his ascension, if not sent down the memory hole, will be described as “unexpected”.

    ——

    Some things to watch for.

    1) whether the Suez Canal [Note to Chrissy "Tingles" Matthews- unlike what he said last night on MSNBC; it is the SUEZ canal in Egypt, not the Panama Canal as he ranted.] stays in full operation, or if a differential pricing for passage comes about. Besides non-energy trade; Europe has about 1 million bbl/day coming through Suez. No, that will not cripple them. But with their economy already on the ropes, it will not help. There is the matter of free passage for not only Israeli warships, but also ours. It can be worked around, but at a high cost.

    2) Mubarak’s primary use for American policy is the fact that he maintained the Camp David Treaty. The MB is not likely to do so. The Egyptians up to now have also maintained the arms embargo on HAMAS in Gaza. That is not long for this world under the MB. Israel is already facing an active two front conventional war between Lebanon and Gaza, plus the threat of strategic WMD’s delivered by Iran and its satraps. A MB Egyptian regime that de facto voids the Camp David Treaty means an active 3 front conventional war must be allowed for, AND that Gaza becomes more of a threat.

    Israel has limited resources. While it is the position of the current regime, the EU, and the UN that it would be so much easier if Israel would simply commit suicide quietly; they are not likely to do so. What all of Israel’s enemies take as a given is that Israel will not use its nuclear forces in an existential situation. I would not bet on it, and I remember the last time that the rest of the world encouraged the Arab states to surround and destroy Israel. June of 1967, I believe it was. They did not wait to be slaughtered.

    If the glow-in-the-dark SHTF, while the Ummah can be destroyed as an entity, there will be consequences for the rest of the world. Neither we, nor other countries may like what results.

    I offer another trip-wire to watch for. The Camp David Treaty puts certain requirements on both parties. Neither can bring military forces into “Zone C” in the Sinai, especially armored forces. If either does so, that is a casus belli. Each side’s compliance with the Treaty is monitored by a Multi-National Force, led by the US. It is NOT a UN force, because the Russians threatened to veto such [they really did not want the Treaty]. The US furnishes more than half the force, rotating through an Infantry Battalion and a Support Battalion plus additional elements at any given time.

    Their presence is at the sufferance of Buraq Hussein Obama. If they are withdrawn, it is a major strategic indicator even more serious than the UN accepting the Egyption demands on the UN force in the Sinai in 1967. However, I do not rule out a regime decision that they will be deemed expendable if such furthers the strategic goals of the NCA.

    I would also note, that after Egypt falls; unrest will not end. We are seeing food riots across North Africa and Asia. When people are worried about feeding their kids, they will fight back, however impotently. World food reserves are at a low point. Of the major grain exporters. Russia has suspended exports due to drought, fires, and local shortages. Canada’s crop is down 17% due to flooding. Australia has its own drought AND flooding problems. Argentina does export some, but not enough to make a difference. The US is not starving, but we are devoting fully 1/3 of our grain resources to the high pollution and economically nonsensical folly of ethanol production.? Add to this the detail that every major economy is engaging in a beggar-thy-neighbor policy of deliberate inflation which is spreading to the third world; and Malthus is in play. He does not play nicely.

    *Sigh*

    Happy Sunday, y’all.

    I will try to insert some non-European characters here, to see if the new iteration of the Empire will take them.
    ?????? ???????????

    I’m trying for the Shema. It seems to fit.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

  20. 20

    BigDogg says:

    A good number of us make note of the similarities between Obonzo’s administration and the Now Second Worst President in the History of the US, Dhimmi Cardigan … does anyone else see some remarkable similarities between what’s happening now in Egypt (and Odumbo’s lack of decisive response) and what went down in Iran during Carter’s failed presidency? Will Egypt become the next Mullahtocracy?

    Actually, I think it’s more like February, 1941 all over again.

  21. 21

    @ Jaybear:

    I too thought about the Bush strategy to plant the seeds of Democracy in the Middle East to ultimately win the war against militant Islam. I hope this is what we are seeing. Unfortunately, I also fear the law of unintended consequences which could result in popular uprisings (which we wanted) that result in the Muslims voting for hard line militant rulers (like Hamas in Gaza).

    I have a feeling we’re going to know in about six months time.

  22. 22

    LC Beaker, Imperial Photographer says:

    I have a feeling we’re going to know in about six months time.

    Looks like it’s gonna be a lot sooner than that

    president bobblehead….through his cowardice and inaction…..is complicit in the spawning of another hardline islamic state……how glorious for the world

  23. 23
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    Check this out: Trump was interviewed by Newsmax about the Middle East mess, and he has some scathing things to say about our current crop of “leaders”:

    http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-opec-oil-egypt/2011/01/30/id/384427?s=al&promo_code=B91B-1

    And he also has interesting anecdotal (international businessman-type access) accounts of what the foreign businessmen and politicos REALLY think about the US and our “leadership.”

  24. 24
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    Here are some tidbits:

    Trump: Mideast Explosion Could Destroy OPEC, Lower Oil Prices
    Sunday, 30 Jan 2011 04:43 PM
    By Jim Meyers and Kathleen Walter

    Donald Trump is mad as hell — and he’s letting everybody know it.
    In a wide-ranging exclusive interview with Newsmax.TV on Friday, the billionaire real estate mogul and reality TV star lashes out at China, OPEC, Obama’s Middle East dealings, the president’s State of the Union address and more.

    Trump takes aim at America’s “horrible” trade agreements, declares that the Middle East is going to explode, warns about “catastrophic” oil prices, and charges that Obama’s Afghanistan policy is “dangerous and stupid.”
    He also complains that the United States is a “laughing stock” throughout the world — and confirms that he is seriously considering running for president in 2012.

    Asked directly about a possible run, Trump tells Newsmax: “I’m thinking about it. I’m looking at what’s happening with this country and frankly, it’s very sad. I see what’s happening left and right, how we’re being abused by other nations, and I don’t like it. I don’t like what’s happening with jobs. I am seriously thinking about it.”

    Real estate mogul Donald Trump tells Newsmax.TV he probably will announce his candidacy for president in June. The New York billionaire is confident he can restore the United States to glory after President Barack Obama has made America a laughingstock.
    Trump says if he does run it will be as a Republican and not as a third party candidate, and explains why he would run.

    “I love the country and I hate what’s happening to the country. In 12 years China will take over as the world’s leading economic power, if not sooner, and the way we’re going this country will not be a great country as it was anymore. That’s so very very sad to me.”

    “We have a very weak policy. Whether it’s China, or the horrible agreement just signed with South Korea, or any of the other horrible deals that we make, we don’t have the ability to make good deals with other countries.

    We’re like a whipping post for other countries. We are standing there and being beaten by South Korea, by Mexico, by China, by India. If you have a problem with a credit card and you call somebody up, that person is based in India.

    “And then they wonder why we’re not going to have jobs for another five or six years.

    “Ben Bernanke said recently it’s going to be at least five years before our jobs really come back. And I say, why? All our jobs are going to China. We’re rebuilding China and other places.”

    Trump insists the United States needs to change its trade policies with the People’s Republic.

    “If we ever taxed Chinese products coming into this country, we would pay off the debt so fast. More importantly, we would start creating jobs in our country.

    “They cheated at the Olympics with their gymnasts, they’re cheating us with their manipulation of the currency. They’re not our friends. I know them very well. I do business with them. I’m not angry at them. I just can’t believe that they can get away with it.

    “My friends from China said to me just recently — they didn’t know that I might be thinking about running for president — ‘we cannot believe how stupid your politicians are to allow us to get away with what we’re getting away with.’

    “They thought they were talking to me as a business guy and they were all laughing and smiling. We are a laughing stock throughout the world.”

    Referring to President Obama’s State of the Union speech, Trump says: “He didn’t talk about the deficit, he didn’t talk about how to pay off all the debt that we have. Instead he’s telling everybody what a great country China is, that China has the fastest computer in the world. That should be for the president of China to talk about, not President Obama.

    “Unless we get tough, and smart, and unless we stop having dinners for people that are destroying us, like when the president of China came two weeks ago to this country and we gave him a great state dinner, we’re going to have big problems.”

    Trump has a surprising response to speculation that the turmoil in Egypt and other countries in the Middle East could push oil prices to as high as $200 a barrel.

    “It also could go the other way. Frankly, the Middle East is a tinderbox. It’s going to explode. OPEC will probably be destroyed if it explodes, and oil prices could go the other way.

    “We have so much oil. There’s so much oil out at sea. I see $3.50 for a gallon of gas. Cars are lined up trying to get it, and at $3.50. It’s a shame. It’s a ridiculous shame. Plus we don’t use our natural gas. We have more natural gas than anybody. Why we’re not using it is an amazing thing.

    “Abu Dhabi, which has plenty of oil, just went to all natural gas for transportation because they want to sell us the oil at exorbitant prices. When you tell me about Obama and what he’s doing in the Middle East, I don’t think he’s doing anything in the Middle East.”

    Trump warns of the dangers to the United States posed by OPEC and high oil prices….

    “When we had our problem not so long ago, a few years ago, oil was almost $150 a barrel. They’re blaming the banks, and the banks were terrible, and lots of other things were terrible, but I give a lot of the credit for the almost collapse of this country to the price of oil. It’s going to be up there again very soon and you’re going to have another catastrophic problem.

    “By the way, any time a country comes up with oil they invite them in: ‘Join OPEC. The United States is stupid, the people who represent the United States are really stupid, so join us and we’ll take advantage of the United States, sell them oil at inflated prices.’ They’re draining our life blood. We cannot allow that to continue. What kind of power do we have over OPEC? They wouldn’t even exist if it weren’t for us.”

    Asked where he thinks the price of oil is headed, Trump responds: “I think it could go, with proper leadership, down to $40 a barrel. I think if we continue the way it is, it’s going to go up to $150 a barrel.”

    Turning to Afghanistan and the timeline President Obama has proposed for withdrawal of American troops, Trump tells Newsmax: “We should be out of there as soon as possible. At the same time, when Obama announced that he’s going to be out at a certain date, these militants are just sitting back saying, ‘He gave us a specific date. This is fantastic. We’ll just sit back and then we’ll take it over the minute they leave.’

    “So for him to give a date was a very dangerous, stupid, and foolish thing to do.”

    In Part Two of Trump’s interview, he rips banks, Obamacare, American diplomats, spending on Iraq and Afghanistan, and more. It will appear Monday night.

    Read more on Newsmax.com: Trump: Mideast Explosion Could Destroy OPEC, Lower Oil Prices

  25. 25
    LC Getalis, Imperial Czar of Pharmacology growls and barks:

    LC Guy S says:

    So now Jimmah Carter’s “secret bastard child” (Hey the progressives start rumors about our guys all the time. Turn about is fair play. Carter is certainly old enough to have fathered Obambi, and they seem to have much the same mental outlook on things, specifically foreign policy, so why not?) sits in the oval office, and we have the beginnings of deja-vue all over again.

    Or… he’s the lovechild of Bush 41, and *that’s* why Obongo Bush 44′s birth certificate must never see the light of day. (Both parties would have a vested interest in keeping that a secret.)

    I need a nap. :em04:

  26. 26
    AyUaxe growls and barks:

    Sorry to say, Your Rottieness, but I do think on this one, you are being too simplistic and not giving the working class of Egypt and the educated youth their due. This is not the ululating Arab street–these are people more like us, than most in the ME. Most of what I’ve been able to glean from news and internet postings that have gotten out of Egypt is that the MB aren’t at all involved in the demonstrations against Mubarak and his “police” thugs. To the extent that MB has shown up at all, it is a side show to the one in the main ring.

    Further, the U.S.’ most significant point of contact and commonality with Egypt isn’t Mubarak–it’s the Egyptian military, which appears to be acting on its own with remarkable restraint and honor, maintaining a semblance of order in the face of seeming chaos. Heard yesterday: where were the top generals of Egypt’s military when this all started? In the Pentagon. Did they immediately leave? No, they stayed and meet with U.S. counterparts. I think there may be something hopeful in that.

    There is much triangulation, confusion, and unfortunately, prolly a lot of taqqiyah going on. I never trusted El Baradei and I don’t trust him now. What I’m waiting and hoping to hear from Egypt and from among our own politicians is someone standing up and shouting for the crowd’s acclamation the words that stir the souls of all freedom seeking persons, no matter where they are or of from what culture they come:

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all people [sic] are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness….”

    In the meantime, pray for the Copts and for all the decent people of Egypt and the world, that we might all uphold the spirit of freedom and push back against evil.

  27. 27
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    AyUaxe says:

    Sorry to say, Your Rottieness, but I do think on this one, you are being too simplistic and not giving the working class of Egypt and the educated youth their due.

    I certainly hope I’m wrong, but I’m not exactly hopeful. This sitting on the sidelines hoping everything turns out for the best hasn’t exactly worked out too well for us lately and, as Subotai points out, it doesn’t really matter a whole hairy lot whether the Good Guys are running the riots right now.

    What matters is who will have the power, organization and will to step in and scoop up the loot once the dust settles, and currently the Mooselimb Brotherhood are playing it just right if that’s what they’re planning, keeping a low profile while their enemies wear each other out.

    We just aren’t in a position where we can afford to be wrong anymore and, as they say: “Better safe than sorry.”

    Or my variation on the theme: “I’d rather be sorry and safe than just fucking sorry.”

  28. 28
    Grammar Czar growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    president bobblehead….through his cowardice and inaction…..is complicit in the spawning of another hardline islamic state……how glorious for the world

    But, Jay…how can this be? We were assured by DJ, the MSM, and 52% of our voting public that he would walk on water, the crippled would rise up and walk (I mean…just look at Gabrielle Giffords), and the oceans would cease to rise. We were told just by his being, he would heal the world. Just his mere presence is enough to create miracles.

    He’s nothing more than a fratboy president. He’s voting “present” on this one because he has NO clue what to do.

  29. 29
    AyUaxe growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I says:

    What matters is who will have the power, organization and will to step in and scoop up the loot once the dust settles, and currently the Mooselimb Brotherhood are playing it just right if that’s what they’re planning, keeping a low profile while their enemies wear each other out.

    We just aren’t in a position where we can afford to be wrong anymore and, as they say: “Better safe than sorry.”

    Or my variation on the theme: “I’d rather be sorry and safe than just fucking sorry.”

    No real disagreement on these points. This is a very dangerous time, but also one fecund with opportunity. I read some more after writing my initial comment (Ready, Fire, Aim!) and was disturbed to find, via Michael Totten, some ugly stats about the views of Egypt’s citizenry in regard to Jizzbollah, Ham-mas, and Shitria law–apparently, a substantial portion of the population were proponents for those avenues to hell. That would also suggest a fertile ground for the vicious briars sown by the MB. So I’ll join you in hoping but not being as hopeful as I’d hoped.

    The idealist in this realist still thinks, though, that Mubarak’s appointment of the ex-intelligence chief (maybe not technically the right title, but a pretty close description) Omar Suleiman as vice-president (and thus probable successor) is a genuinely positive development for the U.S. and should send serious chills through the radical pislamists hoping to make headway in Egypt. Search on Omar Suleiman and you’ll see why. His association with the military and with the U.S. intelligence community looks positive. His prior associations with the Soviets, not so much, but maybe not too bad for purposes of putting the hurt on AQ and its ilk.

    So not so much nuanced, as complicated with a side of FUBAR. I think the best we can hope for is that our military connections will take this as an opportunity to genuinely strengthen freindly elements in and ties to Egypt, regardless of the ineptitude of pRez and DoS. Looking back, our military has always done the better job of exporting our values to other lands/peoples than have politicians.

    Again, let’s not forget to pray for all decent folks in danger and for guidance to all in power that they may chose the right path, rather than the one that merely lets them rule in hell.

  30. 30
  31. 31
    Jerry growls and barks:

    Off topic, but here we go again. :em41:

  32. 32
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    Watched the talking heads for a moment this evening. On Matthews show the pundit was declaring that the MB “hated” AQ and that they had put aside all their radical islamist behavior inorder to enter mainstream politics. On Fox, Krauthamer (sp?) stated that anyone that thought the MB would not adopt radical islamist behavior was unrealistically optimistic. Ultimately I think the US position in Egypt is fucked. Its a damned if you do damned if you don’t scenario. If we “back” Mubarack in a “orderly transition” we will be seen as supporting the bad guy. If we just sit back, we get another radical islamist country which throws kindling on the smoldering fire that is Saudi and Jordan. In a nutshell, Its a huge shit sandwhich and as usual we get to take a great big bite.

    But hey, maybe the the “moderate muslim fairy” will visit the region and bless everyone with balance & harmony. And of course I could win the fucking lotto, but the odds are slim.

  33. 33
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    All of this has a haunting familiarity to this old geezer; even the excuses ana alibis sound like 1978-79. In the early staes of that democratic venture, there was no sign and little evidence of Islamofascist involvement. Hell. Our own UN Representative, the sainted Andy Young assured us that this Khomeini fellow was a sort of saint. el Baradei has a long history of flacking for the Iranian nuclear programs, running interference and buggering inspections.
    Turning to the Muslim Brotherhood, they were founded in 1928 by Sayyid Qutb, who became a declared admirer of der Fuhrer. He and his party have, at the least, a connection with the NSDAP which would not be tolerated with any other non-muslim group. And that is perhaps being charitible. I have not seen any credible evidence actually connecting the MB with the 13 SS Bosnian Muslim Division “Handschar”. ButI’ve not made an expert search either. So I’ll will allow benefit of doubt – and still find the case damning. The MB were the ones who killed Sadat, after all. They have close ties to Hamas and al-qaida. They even managed to get on the wrong side of Papa Halfass ol’-Asshat in Damascus. Recently they “declared war on America”. So I am not impressed by claims they were not involved at the beginning. In 1978 the Iranian revolution began with pro-democracy demonstrators(tm) and also strong Tudeh (Iranian Communst) Party involvement, and some other groups. Muslim elements appeared only later, and then seemed to be a moderating influence. Do the names Saddeq Ghotbzadeh (sp?) or Bani-Sadr ring any bells? Those were the moderate westernized chumps who were going to succeed the Shah.
    Remember. :em02: Sunshine is the best disinfectant. That is why they sell it in cans.

  34. 34
    AyUaxe growls and barks:

    Egypt doesn’t look as much like Iran 78-79 as might seem from network news footage. Pisslamic radicals were at the core of organizing the Iranian rebellion from the earliest times. That does not seem to be the case in Egypt. However, there is a real risk, as His Rottieness and Lord Pao An have learnedly noted above, that MB will use it’s existing organizational framework and its religious connections to coopt an otherwise secular, economic and social liberty revolution. If the U.S. (not the pRez or DoS–they’ll only F it up–leave this to CIA and military) will push Mubarak to “retire” and allow Suleiman simply to succeed him by orderly, lawful transition (ala Nixon, but with a kick-ass Ford), the military and police, under their new head, can restore order and conceivably begin instituting a government more of the people, by the people and for the people, while simultaneously whacking all the MB and other radical moles who’ve raised their heads during the current chaos. Then they’ve got something sustainable and progressive in a good way. That’s how I’d do it. So have I won the election yet?

  35. 35
    Lady H growls and barks:

    If Obama refuses to help Israel, should radical Islam surround it, would the Israeli armed forces accept Gentiles? (Looking at the threat the Muslim Brotherhood made towards Israel today.)