I Hate It When I’m Right

Many, many moons ago I said that when the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from it’s list of “deviant sexual behavior”, that it would open a Pandora’s Box. I argued that the militant homosexual “rights” movement, and societies blind acceptance of their every demand, would lead to the day where pedophilia would be reclassified as just another “life style” and child molesters would demand the same “rights”. Well, kiddies, guess what.

A group of psychiatrists and other mental health professionals say it’s time to change the way society views individuals who have physical attractions to children.

Switch from a scope to iron sights?
“Stigmatizing and stereotyping minor-attracted people inflames the fears of minor-attracted people, mental health professionals and the public, without contributing to an understanding of minor-attracted people or the issue of child sexual abuse,” reads the organization’s website.
Y’all jotted down the new PC approved New Speak for child molesters right?
B4U-Act said that 38 individuals attended a symposium in Baltimore last week, including researchers from Harvard University, Johns Hopkins University and the universities of Illinois and Louisville. According to the group, which said to not endorse every point of view expressed, the speakers in attendance concluded that “minor-attracted” individuals are largely misunderstood and should not be criminalized even as their actions should be discouraged.
Sound familiar?
Critics of the conference say it was a thinly veiled attempt to make children of any age sexually accessible to adults.
Gee, ya think?

“Absolutely,” Dr. Judith Reisman, a visiting professor of law at Liberty School of Law said. “Oh, they’re very clear about that. Their goal is to take all shame out of the lust for children.”

The American Psychiatric Association did not participate in the conference, and evidently does not condone the group’s message.

Give ‘em time.
Critics of the effort also note that the movement likens its fight for pedophilia acceptance to society’s more recent embrace of homosexuality. They warn of a slippery slope to a time when pedophilia is “just another lifestyle choice” that won’t warrant criminal charges—and will leave young children at risk.
Back in the day we were told that anyone who opposed the militant gay movement and predicted unintended consequences such as this were “homophobes” and paranoid. Well, we were also right.
The next time someone tells you that we have to “accept” homosexual behavior, tell them to shove it up their ass. Just be sure to specify that you’re speaking rhetorically.

 

52 comments

  1. 1
    BigDogg growls and barks:

    I have a treatment plan for “minor attracted people” … it involves lobotomy by 12-gauge Mossberg.

  2. 2
    Nurgen growls and barks:

    Once again…whenever we find ourselves on this sort of slippery slope the French are way ahead (below) us. Moderately SFW…but disturbing nonetheless.

  3. 3
    Lady H growls and barks:

    I’ve been warning people about this for years as well, Crunchie.

    Sodom and Gomorrah are going to seem like a small firestorm compared to what will surely be coming our way for accepting sin as a ‘way of life’ that we are told we have to “tolerate”, ie, accept.

    G-d help us.

  4. 4
    lc purple raider growls and barks:

    They should have put homosexuality back on the list instead of taking child molestation off.

  5. 5
    AyUaxe growls and barks:

    So long as eradicators-of-minor-attracted-adults are also accorded our fundamental rights and allowed to make our lifestyle target choices without interference or fear of persecution or prosecution, I think this is pretty much OK. In fact, the more open they are, the easier to ID. Oh, and to answer the first fisking question: no, stick with the scope, unless it has to be a particularly quick shot.

  6. 6
    TheRoyalFamily growls and barks:

    “Minor-attracted”? “Minor” is a legal construct. In America a minor is that kid a day shy of her 18th birthday. In Japan she’d still be a minor the next day…and the next two years. Even going with age of consent, it’s different in many places in the US, and doesn’t mean a whole lot, biologically.

    No, let’s just stick with “pedophile.” That actually means something.

  7. 7

    I wonder if they’ll see fit to apply this to the Catholic priests they so condemn. Don’t get me wrong, I think anyone who touches a child in a sexual way should be cut into small pieces, but I just wonder if our new PC overlords will set the standard for all or just set it for those who fit their model of the perfect citizen.

    First they legalized homosexual marriage

    then they made pedophilia acceptable

    what next?

  8. 8
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    I’m sure their first parade will be in Frisco. And they will be heavily supported by the homo’s.

    The world is insane.

  9. 9
    Virago growls and barks:

    What I want to know is what about the rights of children.

    And again Crunchie you are correct, give’m an inch and the moral decay spreads until you get

    California governor signs bill requiring schools to teach gay history

    http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-14/us/california.lgbt.education_1_california-governor-signs-bill-gay-history-state-textbooks?_s=PM:US

    What in the hell does someone’s sexual orientation have to do with history. Guess here in CA they think Harvey Milk just as important as Lincoln.

  10. 10
    SoCalOilMan, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    First they legalized homosexual marriage

    then they made pedophilia acceptable

    what next?

    Being the camel now has his nose inside the tent….well, I’ll just leave off there.

    I’ve know a few people who dealt with “odd Uncle Charley” or a really sick parent (I use the term parent very loosely here as it is biology alone that gives those assholes the title) and have seen how it has totally screwed up the kids life and relationships to feel anything resembling sympathy or understanding for some adult who puts their desires over the child’s needs.

    Switch from a scope to iron sights?

    Iron pipe is better. gives it so much more of that personal touch to express your true feelings.

  11. 11
    SoCalOilMan, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    What in the hell does someone’s sexual orientation have to do with history.

    Some samples of the new Kalifornia history book:

    George Washington (heterosexual) is often referred to as one of the “Founding Fathers” of our nation.

    Barney Frank (gay) a Representative for the Fourth Congressional District of Massachusetts.

    Eliot Spitzer (philanderer) was a Governor of New York and cable television host.

    Lucrezia Borgia (bisexual) was a member of a prominent family of Venice during the 15th century.

    Mohamed (minor-attracted) wrote the Pisslamic holy book…

    Catherine the Great (bestiality (annotation required)) was the Empress Of Russia from 1762 to 1796.

    You can see how that enhances the understanding of history.
    SoCalOilMan, K.o.E. recently posted..Decision MakingMy Profile

  12. 12
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    Oh, but liberals and “pragmatic conservatives” will always assure us that any mention of a “slippery slope” is nothing but paranoia.

    Which, according to RINOs and pedophiles (our apology for the redundancy), is a much more serious psychological disorder than jacking off to pre-teens being raped.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Our Four-Legged FriendsMy Profile

  13. 13
    Bones growls and barks:

    I think that your reference to “scopes or ironsites” is completely unneccesary and distracts from the true intent here. Everyone from teh Deep South knows that it is a couple of nails in appropriate appendages back in the swamp, “sprinkle” a few freshly slaughtered chickens about and leave a very dull instrument. No fuss, no muss and the gators will love you! :em05:

  14. 14
    AyUaxe growls and barks:

    Bones @ #:
    Youz onea my new bestest friends! Just like the way you think!

  15. 15
    Bones growls and barks:

    Lets just say that there was ONLY 1 RAPE in my hometown while I was growing up. Key term there is 1. This is effective EVERY TIME it is tried, gareenteed!

  16. 16
    LC HJ Caveman82952 growls and barks:

    Now I’m flaming pissed! I would just kill the son of a bitch, or my friends would.

  17. 17
    LC HJ Caveman82952 growls and barks:

    what next?

    Bestiality.

  18. 18
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC HJ Caveman82952 says:

    what next?

    Bestiality.

    Doesn’t count, since it’s already allowed.

    Liberals do have sex without being arrested, after all.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Our Four-Legged FriendsMy Profile

  19. 19
    LC HJ Caveman82952 growls and barks:

    :em05:

  20. 20
    LC Darth Scoundrel growls and barks:

    Minor attracted persons? I have a better name for them.
    Bullet attracting persons. How about that?
    Touch my grandkids and I guaran-damn-tee you will attract a bullet or twelve.
    And it seems as if I’m in like minded company. Anyone got a shovel?
    :em01:
    Just checking.
    LC Darth Scoundrel recently posted..LinkosityMy Profile

  21. 21
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    Liberals do have sex without being arrested, after all.

    Damn. Not even arrested for EPA violations?

  22. 22
    ICD growls and barks:

    I think the key difference between pedophilia and homosexuality is the harm they visit on others. Arguments about decaying morality aside, homosexuals having sex with each other shouldn’t matter, assuming they take they follow the same guidelines as heterosexuals (consent, protection, etc.). Obviously, pedophilia crosses an entirely different line, in scarring a child; I doubt anyone can deny that. I suppose I can’t predict where B4U-Act’s train of thought will take them, but my hope lies in the general populace utterly rejecting the idea of pedophilia becoming mainstreamed.

    The post speaks of “Stigmatizing and stereotyping minor-attracted people [inflaming] the fears of minor-attracted people” and these fears stem from perfectly good sources. Hopefully that’s enough to kick this idea to the curb.

  23. 23
    The Irish Dragon growls and barks:

    For a long time I was simply in favor of putting homos back on the “mentally ill” list. After this, well, I’m leaning more toward, “Burn them at the stake again.”

  24. 24
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    ICD says:

    I think the key difference between pedophilia and homosexuality is the harm they visit on others. Arguments about decaying morality aside, homosexuals having sex with each other shouldn’t matter, assuming they take they follow the same guidelines as heterosexuals (consent, protection, etc.).

    I agree completely and it has forever been my opinion, even as a Christian, that the law has no business punishing homosexuals for being, well, homosexual. It does no harm except to the souls of the sinners and their souls, like their bodies, are their own to deal with as they see fit.

    None of my business. G-d’s business, to be sure, but none of mine.

    Thus, I had no problem when laws against homosexuality were taken off the books. But that wasn’t enough, was it? Once that particular camel’s nose was in the tent, it went downhill from there until we reached the point where we are at now where it is considered a “hate crime” to even disagree with homosexuality, at least in some areas of the world.

    We removed the laws outlawing the consenting choice of adults as we should and then, irony of ironies, replaced them with laws making it illegal for anybody to even be critical of their lifestyle. You are now a “hater” and “homophobic” if you even dare suggest that a tiny minority of the population shouldn’t be allowed to redefine the meaning of “marriage”, not because they cannot get the same rights as married couples without marrying, they can, but because they want that particular word to be theirs too.

    That was the slippery slope that people like myself were talking about when the first attempts to mainstream homosexuality were made. Not out of malice towards individuals doing nobody any harm, but because of a serious concern that a sensible and utterly justifiable step would eventually lead to utter nonsense and depravity.

    And we were right. Absolutely, positively right. There are times when I really want to be wrong, and this was one of them.

    And so it is with this “minor-attracted” euphemism for pedophilia. It may seem sensible to some to not persecute individuals who have an attraction to children, individuals who do NOT act out on their sick perversions, the same way that we do not persecute people who secretly fantasize about robbing banks but never actually rob any banks, but where does it end?

    We say now, myself included, that “oh well, how is it wrong for two consenting individuals to engage in homosexuality?”

    It isn’t.

    But mark my words: If we let this “minor-attracted” nonsense slip its nose under the tent and it won’t be long until pedophiles will be defending their crimes by saying “it was consensual, I didn’t harm anybody” and so on and so forth.

    And pretty soon we’ll have liberals defending the rights of middle aged men to marry their 11 year old daughters.

    I was right before, I’ll be right again on this one if it isn’t stamped out brutally and definitively.

    Darth Scoundrel is absolutely correct. A better name for pedophiles would be “bullet-attracting” because I swear to you a solemn oath right here and now that, no matter what society may say, no matter how our continuing moral deprivation as a nation proceeds, I WILL dispense a large amount of bullets, even a disproportionately large one, toward anybody even touching a child in a sexual fashion.

    And if the law comes for me after that to arrest me for doing what was right, I’ll send them to Hell too.

    Without a moment’s hesitation and without a second of remorse.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Our Four-Legged FriendsMy Profile

  25. 25
    Mandrake growls and barks:

    … we reached the point where we are at now where it is considered a “hate crime” to even disagree with homosexuality, at least in some areas of the world.

    Can you be more specific about the areas you are citing? In this country, a hate crime is defined as a (typically violent) crime that is motivated, at least in part, by a desire to intimidate or terrorize an entire group or class of people. These classes have expanded to include homosexuals, but historically it included blacks, jews, catholics, Asians, etc.

    Just voicing “hatred” for a particular group or class isn’t a crime, unless it includes the threat of violence or other illegal intimidation. If it were otherwise, the Westboro Baptist kooks wouldn’t be able to spew their vile filth.

    Is it different in other parts of the world?

  26. 26
    irish19 growls and barks:

    LC Darth Scoundrel @ #:
    Twelve??! You ain’t going to the range enough. Or are the other 11 just to make sure the lesson sinks in?

  27. 27

    I knew when they started talking about teaching Sex Ed to five years olds it was about to get damn ugly. These idiots think that any child that survives being born in the first place, should then just be used as a sex toy for perverts who are incapable of having a normal, mature, responsible relationship with another consenting adult.

  28. 28
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Jaybear, CoIAA:
    I

    wonder if they’ll see fit to apply this to the Catholic priests they so condemn.

    Just what I was thinkin’.

  29. 29
    LC Darth Scoundrel growls and barks:

    irish19 says:

    LC Darth Scoundrel @ #:
    Twelve??! You ain’t going to the range enough. Or are the other 11 just to make sure the lesson sinks in?

    You know what they say, if it’s worth shooting once it’s worth emptying the magazine…and reloading, since I carry a G36…
    But you’re right about one thing, I don’t get to the range enough.
    LC Darth Scoundrel recently posted..LinkosityMy Profile

  30. 30
    ICD growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I says:

    But mark my words: If we let this “minor-attracted” nonsense slip its nose under the tent and it won’t be long until pedophiles will be defending their crimes by saying “it was consensual, I didn’t harm anybody” and so on and so forth.
    And pretty soon we’ll have liberals defending the rights of middle aged men to marry their 11 year old daughters.
    I was right before, I’ll be right again on this one if it isn’t stamped out brutally and definitively.

    No arguments there. I’ll compare this to the bankrobbing scenario you outlined about people thinking about robbing banks, but not doing it because they know it’s wrong. As long as people know pedophilia is wrong, things stay ok. If a group like B4U-Act tries to change that definition, then we run into trouble. I would hope this is a P.R. war that’s already been won, what with the backlash on the priesthood and America’s general disgust for sexual criminals. It certainly seems like a low risk situation, but I suppose ther’s no guarantees.

  31. 31
    MasterGuns Imperial Swampmaster growls and barks:

    Touch a kid sexually around me and die.

    No other comment is necessary.

    Semper Fi

  32. 32
    irish19 growls and barks:

    LC Darth Scoundrel @ #:
    I don’t either. But, I’m going this weekend. Buffalo Rock in Ottawa, Ill.

  33. 33
    irish19 growls and barks:

    MasterGuns Imperial Swampmaster @ #:
    Not very nuanced of you.

  34. 34
    Lc ORWN engine builder for Rottie Racing growls and barks:

    LC Darth Scoundrel says:

    Anyone got a shovel?

    YUP..a shovel, bobcat, backhoe, if we need to go bigger, I can probably get my hands on something.

    Friends help you move, True friends help you move bodies!!

  35. 35
    Bones growls and barks:

    Quote: Friends help you move, True friends help you move bodies!!

    Wonder where I got the name? :em05:

  36. 36
    MasterGuns Imperial Swampmaster growls and barks:

    A swamp is easier than digging a grave…….turtles and my few gators have to eat too.

    Semper Fi

  37. 37
    LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. growls and barks:

    Crunchie,

    Switch from a scope to iron sights?

    How about cold steel?
    Does this explain why I have lost my libertarian tolerance for Gays.
    Homosexuals – Either at your boots or at your throat.

  38. 38
    LC Fmwoods01 growls and barks:

    irish19 @ #:

    I’m going this weekend. Buffalo Rock in Ottawa, Ill.

    My stomping grounds. Born and raised in Ottawa and spent my youth at Buffalo Rock. Yeah, they really have buffalo there.
    Email me if you want to try to have lunch or something. (at yahoo dot com) no LC. Most Rotties already have my email addy

    D’

  39. 39
    Lizard, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    Gay history:

    People who go against nature forcing others to accept who they are.

    I person would like to see them go back in the closet and lock the fucking door.

    In regards to pedophiles:

    Here’s an island for the males and here’s an island for the females. Hey living out their lives without having anyone to rape will suck.

  40. 40
    Mandrake growls and barks:

    People who go against nature forcing others to accept who they are.

    There is nothing unnatural about homosexual behavior. It happens all the time in nature – birds, chimpanzees, bonobos, dolphins, rodents – this list is long. It’s no more unnatural than left-handedness.

    And no one is “forcing” you or anyone else to accept who they are. Neither do you have to accept left-handed people, or blue-eyed people, or people with curly hair. But you shouldn’t be able to discriminate against them, either.

    And if you argue that being gay is a choice, so what? How does it affect you any more than someone who chooses to convert to Catholicism? Would that individual be forcing you to “accept” his or her conversion?

    You could continue being an avowed enemy the Church of Rome, and no one would be forcing you to believe differently. However, if you chose to illegally discriminate against that person, in housing for example, because he or she had become a Catholic, that would be different, and you’d be in the wrong.

  41. 41
    The Other Les growls and barks:

    As a taxi driver I’ve noticed that homosexuals tend to be misinformed about the locations of various bars and hotels, where as straight guys know exactly where they are going.
    The Other Les recently posted..A Blast From The PastMy Profile

  42. 42
    Southern Libertarian growls and barks:

    If I may just offer one point of rebuttal.

    It is disingenuous to compare homosexuality to pedophilia for the following reason.

    Homosexual acts are acts that take place between two consenting adults. The point here being that they are of the age of consent and of sound mind to be able to give consent. However, minors cannot legally give consent and thus by even trying to compare the two you are comparing apples to oranges.

    That’s my two cents

  43. 43
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    Southern Libertarian says:

    If I may just offer one point of rebuttal.

    It is disingenuous to compare homosexuality to pedophilia for the following reason.

    You are, of course, absolutely right. As a matter of fact, it’s not merely disingenuous, it’d preposterous and insulting as the two have nothing in common as you correctly point out.

    The only reason I brought the two up in the same comment was not to compare consenting adults and their behavior in the privacy of their own homes with the actions of child molesters, because there is no comparison to be made. It was to point out that permissiveness has a way of coming back to bite us in the arse via the slippery slope of giving an inch only to end up losing a mile.

    In some cases that’s just the cost of doing what’s right, as was the case in removing those ridiculous anti-sodomy laws. I can’t for the life of me see the reason in prohibiting non-harmful, private, consensual behavior among adults. The law has no business there. Still, that common sense action has arguably led to more and more concessions that have nothing to do with common sense. But I still wouldn’t go back in time and put those laws back on the books.

    In the case mentioned in the post, however, those head shrinks are trying to sneak in tolerance for something for which there should be NO tolerance under any reasonable argument, trying to do so by redefining the language to be less “offensive” to molesters. And, predictably, if that is allowed to happen, the slippery slope will eventually lead to ever more of the same.

    But no, homosexuality and child molestation have NOTHING to do with each other, and that point can’t be stressed enough.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..One Pistol, Three HeroesMy Profile

  44. 44
    Southern Libertarian growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I @ #:43

    The only reason I brought the two up in the same comment was not to compare consenting adults and their behavior in the privacy of their own homes with the actions of child molesters, because there is no comparison to be made. It was to point out that permissiveness has a way of coming back to bite us in the arse via the slippery slope of giving an inch only to end up losing a mile.

    I apologize for that misunderstanding sir. I had misunderstood the general sentiment of the main post and thought it was a comparison of the two and I was mistaken.

    As far as the rest of the main post as well as the responses I could not agree more. People who prey on children are the lowest form of life on earth and should be dealt with accordingly. I have no respect or sympathy for pedophiles.

    “Rope, Tree, Pedophile
    Some assembly required.”
    (Sorry I borrowed your quote from you but it just fit)

  45. 45
    Mandrake growls and barks:

    The original post gives too much credit to the influence of academics and the psychiatric community. The reason that Americans, in general, are more accepting of gay men and lesbians is because of the efforts of those same men and women. They are our good neighbors, leading stable lives (well, except some of the younger men, but gay or straight, young men often make reckless decisions about sex). They mow their lawns, raise good kids, join the PTA and pay their taxes.

    Many of us are more “accepting” because we see that there is little difference between gay families and straight families, except for the genders of the couples heading the household.

    Regarding this group of mental health professionals looking to remove the stigma from the attraction to minors, I would assume their goal would be that by removing the stigma, the attraction could be better understood and treated. I’m confident that not a single member of this group would advocate removing the stigma from pedophilia itself, despite the inflamed rhetoric of the Fox News headline.

    Compare it to rage. If the desire to murder our spouses or our next-door neighbor who lets his dog crap on our lawns carried the same level of stigma that the so-called “minor attraction” does, no one would seek help if that rage began to overwhelm us. But because this society has worked to de-stigmatize depression, bi-polar disorder, rage, etc., one could argue that many are seeking help who might otherwise have acted on their feelings because they were too ashamed to address them at an earlier point in time.

    I’m assuming that is the goal of this group – not to de-stigmatize the act of having sex with a minor, but to take away the toxic shame of having those feelings. Most people know it’s not right to hit your spouse, but we aren’t ashamed to admit that we sometimes feel that desire. However, if it became an overwhelming desire, maybe we would seek help BECAUSE we wouldn’t be so afraid to admit it.

    If there were a corollary applied to “minor attraction,” perhaps fewer children and teenagers would be hurt. And considering how much our society sexualizes teenagers – in advertising, television, music, and even at the beach – I would imagine that a lot of “normal” people have at times felt an attraction to a minor.

    Ask yourself, how often have you done a double-take at some girl in a department store wearing low-cut jeans and a belly ring, only to later realize that she is probably a minor? Did you feel shame? Probably.

    However, if it became an obsession to go to the mall to look at teenage girls, you’d hopefully realize that something was wrong and seek help. That, I believe, is the goal of this group of shrinks – to better understand this kind of obsessive thinking, remove the stigma from the THOUGHTS, and diminish the shame so that people will seek help before acting on the thoughts. Not, as the Fox News headline proclaims, to remove the stigma from pedophilia itself.

  46. 46
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    Most people know it’s not right to hit your spouse, but we aren’t ashamed to admit that we sometimes feel that desire.

    Uh… Who exactly wouldn’t feel shame to admit they wanted to beat their spouse for whatever reason?

  47. 47
    LC HJ Caveman82952 growls and barks:

    I would be ashamed to admit feeling such things………it is a response to unacceptable behaviors, or wishing to indulge in the same.
    As for child molesters, or diddlers……I hope they do feel shame, a lot of it. They are perverts, predators, plain and simple. I’ve seen what that does to people…I do not believe for one second removing shame would help, aside from seeking a lower sentence. Death seems appropriate to me.

  48. 48
    Mandrake growls and barks:

    I would be ashamed to admit feeling such things…

    Shame for feeling “such things,” or shame for admitting to those feelings, whatever they are?

    Look at what shame does to people, the Larry Craigs, Anthony Weiners and Mark Foleys of the world. It drives them into denial and/or deeper into the closet. You may argue that they have no shame, else they never would have done what they did to begin with. But to make that argument, you’d have to say that they are without conscience, essentially sociopaths.

    Shame is integral to the problem, especially when it comes to sexually motivated behavior that a community finds unacceptable. For Craig and Foley, their community and peers disapprove of homosexuality, so rather than openly declaring their sexual preferences, they are driven to secrecy and sleazy encounters.

    Weiner’s community, despite it’s greater tolerance of sexual diversity, still values fidelity. And his behavior clearly crossed boundaries of what most of us expect of a married man and a member of Congress. While he may be a true narcissistic sociopath, it’s far more likely he was driven deeper into his behavior by the archetypal shame/acting-out cycle. With each act, he probably swore to himself that he wouldn’t do it again, but like Foley and Craig, he kept going back. Shame may have kept him from repeating his behavior for awhile, it eventually became a motivator. The only way to counteract the intolerable feeling of self-loathing was to repeat the behavior, as paradoxical as that seems.

    I would wager what this professional group is trying to do is help therapists develop tools to destigmatize so-called feelings of “minor attraction” so to better address it therapeutically before they are acted on.

    On another note, I never said one shouldn’t feel shame wanting to “beat” one’s spouse. I was saying that most understand that it’s a normal feeling to want to act out in anger, but not actually do it. Most of us would hopefully seek help if we found ourselves having these feelings too often, whether directed at our spouses, bosses, co-workers or neighbors. Anger carries less shame than sexual desire, and hopefully someone overwhelmed with anger would not be equally crippled with shame and would seek counsel, from a therapist, pastor or even a friend before he or she acted on those feelings.

    Removing shame from certain feelings isn’t equivalent to creating tolerance for acting on those feelings. It’s about having a better understanding of what motivates human behavior and hopefully breaking the cycle of abuse that has crippled humanity for generations.

  49. 49
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    Look at what shame does to people, the Larry Craigs, Anthony Weiners and Mark Foleys of the world. It drives them into denial and/or deeper into the closet. You may argue that they have no shame, else they never would have done what they did to begin with. But to make that argument, you’d have to say that they are without conscience, essentially sociopaths.

    One, shame doesn’t drive the Larry Craigs, Anthony Weiners and Mark Foleys of the world into denial. Arrogance and their own unwillingness to confront their sense of shame; lest they have to admit they aren’t the invincible high rollers they believe themselves to be pushes them into the “closet”.

    Two, high powered individuals can have sociopathic tendencies. Sociopathy doesn’t automatically lead to the shocking crime of the decade.

    Removing shame from certain feelings isn’t equivalent to creating tolerance for acting on those feelings.

    Actually it is. Without a sense of shame even the most heinous and destructive of behaviors can become non-issues to be shrugged of by an increasingly callous and indifferent society such as ours.

    It’s about having a better understanding of what motivates human behavior and hopefully breaking the cycle of abuse that has crippled humanity for generations.

    You’re making my case for me. Remove shame from the equation and a vicious predatory fiend becomes some broken victim that needs to be nursed back to health. The real victims then become forgotten and ignored in a glaring example of societal sociopathy.

  50. 50
    LC HJ Caveman82952 growls and barks:

    Shame for feeling “such things,” or shame for admitting to those feelings,

    Both.

  51. 51
    Mandrake growls and barks:

    You’re making my case for me. Remove shame from the equation and a vicious predatory fiend becomes some broken victim that needs to be nursed back to health. The real victims then become forgotten and ignored in a glaring example of societal sociopathy.

    Ah, the archetype of the “vicious predatory fiend.” It’s a convenient boogeyman, but most sexual abuse happens in the home between family members. The “predators” get all the headlines, but the vast majority of victims are abused by parents, older siblings, trusted friends or extended family members.

    And the abusers, they were very probably victims themselves when they were children or teenagers. The goal should be to stop the cycle, and by understanding the roots of sexual abuse, including the powerful shame that victims often feel, an enlightened society can do a better job of reaching that goal.

    The recidivism rate for sex abusers is one of the lowest for all serious criminals. The reason – once they are caught, punished, and receive treatment, they better understand the roots of their pathology and (hopefully) have the tools to deal with the toxic thinking that allowed them to hurt someone else.

    But understanding the roots of the motivation to do harm doesn’t excuse the harm. Victims often become abusers themselves, and they have to pay the consequences if they hurt someone else. No one is arguing otherwise. In fact, without consequences, an abuser will continue to abuse.

    But if we understand that shame is at the root, that when a child or teenager is victimized, he or she almost always undergoes powerful feelings of guilt and shame, then we can honestly address the cycle of abuse.

    It’s similar with physical and psychological abuse. A parent beats his or her child, that child will grow up to beat his or her own kids; parents tell their kids they are lowly pieces of shit, those children as adults will do the same to their own. And it goes on and on.

    Why? Because the children believe that they are somehow responsible for their parents actions, that they ARE lowly pieces of shit, and over time, they begin to see the whole world that way, too. This is the seed of shame.

    Now it doesn’t excuse the actions of those children when they become adults if they repeat the same sick behavior. But if the adult child of an abusive parent realizes that he or she may be headed down that same path, maybe that person might have a chance to stop before he or she starts the cycle again because we, as a society, have chosen to discuss the issue honestly in a public forum.

    The same applies to sex abuse, because if follows an almost identical pattern. But media continue to perpetrate the stereotype of the “predator,” the stranger waiting to snatch children and do horrible things to them. Yes, it happens, but the frequency is a small percentage compared to what is going on behind the closed doors of the perfect family next door.

    Shame drives abuse. It doesn’t stop it. Visit an open Al-Anon or Adult Children of Alcoholics meeting, and listen to their stories. Maybe you will change your mind about how toxic shame drives adult children to repeat the sins of their parents.

  52. 52
    LC HJ Caveman82952 growls and barks:

    Damn…. check this out. Not my kid…….