Civility is Not Overrated, But There is a Time and a Place For It

Now comes Matthew Cochran, explaining what we’ve been trying to say for decades, and doing a much better job of it than we ever have:

The detail that conservatives tend to forget is that when one party violates a contract, the other party is no longer bound by all of its terms. If you sign a contract to buy a car, and the dealer refuses to turn it over you, you aren’t “sinking to their level” by refusing to hand over your money. If you contract an employee who never shows up for work, you aren’t “repaying evil for evil” by withholding his wages. The same is true when dealing with people who are deliberately uncivil to civil people — it fundamentally changes what the rest of society owes them.

There is more, much more, and you really do owe it to yourselves to read it. It covers pretty much everything.



  1. 1
    LCBren growls and barks:

    A federal judge on Tuesday tossed a lawsuit claiming that the Trump campaign and former adviser Roger Stone colluded with WikiLeaks and the Russian government to publish hacked Democratic National Committee emails during the presidential election.

    U.S. District Court Judge Ellen Huvelle said in a ruling that the allegations of conspiracy were insubstantial to proceed in a court, Politico reported.


  2. 2
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LCBren @ #:
    Has anyone informed Robert Mueller or Adam Schiffless yet?

  3. 3
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    LCBren says:


    You are so.easily amused. :em05:

    Maybe you should have read just a bit further. It would have told you why this lawsuit was dismissed:

    But Huvelle made clear that her decision was a technical one based on issues of legal jurisdiction and was not a definitive ruling on allegations that the Trump campaign struck an illicit deal with the Russians during the presidential contest.

    “It bears emphasizing that this Court’s ruling is not based on a finding that there was no collusion between defendants and Russia during the 2016 presidential election,” Huvelle wrote. “This is the wrong forum for plaintiffs’ lawsuit. The Court takes no position on the merits of plaintiffs’ claims.” [Emphasis Mine]

    This wasn’t a criminal matter, it was a civil matter. Completely different rules. Completely wrong venue. I am actually surprised the Court didn’t toss it on grounds of the Plaintiff’s lack of standing. It would have been one thing if the DNC were the plaintiff — they would have been able to show “standing”, not a couple of donors.

    Civil courts don’t usually take up criminal matters — unless those criminal matters are passed on. But it is much easier for a private citizen to bring a civil case than it is to push the government to pursue a criminal one.

  4. 4
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:

    Now as to the actual topic here…

    Okay, I read the entire article. But I’ll just comment on the opening line:

    As progressives continue to tear our social fabric apart by mobbing people in restaurants, calling for social upheaval to overturn elections, and so forth, they naturally provoke stronger and stronger reactions from the Right.

    Okay, let’s back the outrage bus up here a bit, shall we? You don’t think that the combative, name-calling, dehumanizing routine that Trump and his acolytes have been on for the past two years or so haven’t brought us to where we are at right now?

    I mean, this isn’t just a case of disagreeing with policy or any of the other divisions we normally deal with — this is more about the demeanor and upheaval your president has stoked over the past two years.

    Remember the mocking of “political correctness”? Your president ran on the idea that he was going to do away with “political correctness”. Well, dumbfucks, you’ve succeeded, Congratulations.

    This is what a world without “political correctness” looks like.

    This didn’t start with Trump — he just put the nastiness on steroids, much to your delight.

    Here, let’s exchange articles, shall we? I’ll see your Matthew Cochran and raise you with a Paul Waldman

    But to hear, in the era of Trump, that liberals are the ones being “uncivil”? You have got to be kidding me.

    What are the horrors to which Trump and his aides have been subjected? White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders was politely asked to leave a restaurant after staff members expressed their concerns about Trump administration policies to the owner (and they comped her cheese plate). Secretary of Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen was heckled at a Mexican restaurant by protesters angry about the administration’s policy of separating parents and children at the border. Trump staffers have found it hard to get dates in Washington because people are repulsed by what they do. And Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.), a regular Trump antagonist, told a group of supporters, “If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”

    Oh, and Robert De Niro said the f-word at the Tony Awards.

    Oh, the humanity!

    Now let’s take a moment to remember who it is these dreadfully uncivil Democrats are opposing. Trump transformed himself into a political figure by leading a racist crusade charging that President Barack Obama was not born in the United States. He also demanded to see Obama’s college transcripts, on the theory that he could not possibly have gotten into Harvard Law School on merit. He mocked a disabled reporter. He encouraged his supporters to commit acts of violence when protesters arrived at his rallies (“I’d like to punch him in the face, I tell ya”). He retweeted racist memes. He made up belittling nicknames for all his opponents, and responded to the roughly dozen accusations of sexual misconduct by saying one of his accusers wasn’t hot enough for him to harass. He told those supporters that they no longer had to be “politically correct” or treat people they didn’t like with any respect; they responded with delight, donning their “Trump That B—-” T-shirts and giving reporters the finger. He sneers at and insults celebrities, athletes, political opponents, journalists — indeed, if he’s not in yet another feud with somebody where he’s tossing off nasty, puerile jibes, he will be soon. The idea that he would one day begin acting “presidential” — that is, like someone who has successfully graduated elementary school — is so absurd that no one even bothers to bring it up anymore. Trump is, without a doubt, the rudest and most uncivil president in U.S. history.

    Oh, there’s more. He goes on to give a history of how Republicans chose to deliberately eschew civility going back to Newt Gingrich.

    And let’s not forget this indisputable fact: You’ve made it the schtick here to be as uncivil and politically incorrect as you possibly could.

    NOW you want ‘civility’?

    Who are the real ‘snowflakes’ here?

  5. 5
    Terrapod growls and barks:

    Masterful trolling there DJ. But I think you have it 100% backwards. Trump is the result of years of in your face PC by the left and now the open hostility (Antifa destruction anyone?) and attacks on the rest of us, you know, the ones called deplorables, unwashed. flyover rubes etc. What you fail to understand is that the majority of us just want to go about our business without having to deal with the government, the whiny left, the do-gooders, the globalists, the commie/greens/warmists and so on ad nauseum.

    It started out slowly, a bit of loss here, a new regulation there, more government intrusiveness by your gods (FDR, Wilson, Johnson, and the more recent amorphous D/R party globalist no borders crowd along with their useful idiots in the MSM and Hollywood, and yes, in Education.

    If all these folks had just shut up and not forced their twisted ideologies on the founding concepts and laws of America, we would not be at this place with increasing violence, spite and mayhem 99% generated by the left. If you get a sudden reaction from those of us who are just fed up with the “in your face” actions of this twisted minority, don’t be surprised. It has been a long time a simmering and the heat has been provided by the left for going on 120+ years.

  6. 6
    DJ Allyn, MPSE growls and barks:


    But hey, “I am sure there are some very nice people there”

    Oh and you probably need to pull out your timeline and study it a bit closer. Antifa was the RESULT of the Trump election. Hillary didn’t call you people “deplorables” until after you guys were being …. well, deplorable.

    So your cause and effect is off by a country mile.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t condone ANY of this shit. But this shit started with YOU guys, going back to Clinton. Then it got racist with Obama.

    Sure, there was a push back in the Bush years, but it was just sour grapes for the most part. But as far as an administration goes? Pretty much normal as things go.

    But now? Civility was tossed completely out the window with Trump. You reap what you sow.

    It would be nice to get back to civility, but I just don’t see that happening, do you?

  7. 7
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    DJ, Imperial Contradictor (who usually claims he doesn’t care):

    But this shit started with YOU guys, going back to Clinton.

    “You’d better put some ice on that.”

  8. 8
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    WE started it? Seriously, not even I can wrap my at times overly flexible brain around that kind of utter bs. Try harder.

    You seem to conflate calling people names with hitting them over the head with steel bike locks. Hint: Those things are not the same.

    Hard to say who “started” with the name calling. Near as I can tell, it started right around the time human beings developed language and no, Virginia, name calling is not the same as violence or the calling for same. It’s words. No more, no less. Sure, the words may be hurtful, mean, rude and so on, but they’re still just words.

    I never had a problem with being called an “imperialist, bloodthirsty, child-murdering warblogger” starting about thirteen minutes after I hit “post” for the first time on this site. I just called the twits names right back and, let’s face it, I’m so very much better at it. Also, name calling can be fun and it certainly can be done in quite creative ways. No, calling everybody one disagrees with “literally Hitler” is not creative, that’s just boring.

    So we “started” it by calling poor Billy BJ names? You sure it didn’t start with the other side calling Reagan Hitler? Or was it Nixon they first called that? Who really cares?

    WE didn’t riot when Princess Perfect Jugears was elected. WE didn’t hit people over the head with bike locks when he was re-elected. WE didn’t set fire to limousines and smash storefronts when he was sworn in, EITHER time, WE didn’t haul pro-Jugear demonstrators out of their wheelchairs and beat them up, WE didn’t shit on police cars and establish hobo camps complete with rape tents, WE didn’t gather lynch mobs to get people fired for voting for him, WE didn’t harass Jugear administration employees and their families with mobs howling outside their houses and so on and so everloving forth.

    Those guys with Tiki torches in your comment. Well, for one thing, to me it sounded like they were shouting “YOU will not replace us” (possibly because the alternative makes absolutely no bloody sense. There aren’t enough Jews in the US to “replace” anybody. Then again, they maybe shouted just that. The droolingly dimwitted will always be among us), but more importantly: Did they set fire to anything? Did they burn down Charlottesville? Did they smash up random businesses? No? Well guess what, then: what they did was called Free Speech which, no matter how odious, is supposedly free in this nation.

    The only thing that has changed in this one-sided display of violence is that the hitherto non-violent half are beginning, very slowly, to defend themselves and hit back.

    And WE started it?

    No, we didn’t.

    But we WILL finish it.

  9. 9
    dasbow growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I @ #:
    Pardon me, Your Vileness, but you forgot that WE also did not shoot up a field of GOP congressmen getting ready to play a charity softball game.

  10. 10
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    dasbow @ #:
    If it had been a Republican shooting up the Democrats, it would have been far more competently done with significant casualties.
    Conservatives understand the benefits of zeroing in your rifle scope and dealing with the unmarked security when they unmask.
    Of course, that is not the first thing we do. We prefer going through all lawful means.
    Only the CommuNazis go straight to direct action as the first step.

  11. 11
    TravisTX growls and barks:

    I have seen that Tiki torch march, and there are SOME spells where they are saying “YOU”, and some where it sounds like “JEWS”.
    But for all I can tell, either clip could have had the sound altered.

  12. 12
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    TravisTX says:

    I have seen that Tiki torch march, and there are SOME spells where they are saying “YOU”, and some where it sounds like “JEWS”.
    But for all I can tell, either clip could have had the sound altered.

    One thing to remember when engaging DJ in a debate is that he loves to throw out enough red herrings to repopulate the Pacific Ocean when he can’t get the facts to fit the narrative.