On the Nevada situation

My apologies for my absence this past few weeks folks – not that I imagine anyone noticed. Mheh.

In short, I’m dealing with a terminally ill father – contract woes with the USG, and the never ending shit storm that seems to be part and parcel of my career, so I’ve been rather distracted and extremely busy of late. Oh Yeah….Because I’m a absolute glutton for punishment, I also kicked off another car restoration project, so I’m a busy little beaver these days…. You can read about it over on my blog, I wont clog the AIR up with my personal stuff….Anyhow enough of my whining.

Misha and the Rottie “HempRope” have pointed out the situation out there in Nevada – the Bureau of Land Management and a cattle rancher at odds – and things are getting tense. This video was recorded recently, I got it via a link on FaceCrack. It”s about 11 minutes, but take the time to watch it.

YouTube Preview Image

 

Supposedly, “Militia” groups are heading to Nevada to support the rancher. So it’s most likely now going to escalate. How far is anyone’s guess. But this could get very ugly, very fast.

How long before the Federal Government ramps up it’s own response to these so called “militias”  and the FBI ATF and DHS show up in their full SWAT tactical gear with the armored vehicles to match…it’s all the range in D.C. these days, don’t ya know? Then what? Some fool pulls a trigger and this whole thing goes ‘hot’?

The video above,  shows how people have already clashed with the Feds from BLM – several protestors in support of the Rancher have gotten themselves hit with tazers, one woman, she is 57 years old – was thrown to the ground – another had a K9 dog – or it’s claimed to have had – set on her, (I don’t see it in the above video) when she refused to back down from the BLM agents.

Frankly,  this Nevada situation is ugly, and what makes it even more so – this isn’t “Waco”, This isn’t “Ruby Ridge”. The USG is pushing a bad case, based on a turtle and land that isn’t worth much more than to let those cows much to their hearts content no less.

Let me explain that last statement. I’ve seen a lot of comments and whatnot on this Nevada situation, and the ideas some seem to have that this is a another “Ruby Ridge” or “Waco” situation. Nothing could be further from the truth if you ask me.

The BLM folks are in a totally different situation here. That being, the USG claims in both Waco, and Ruby Ridge were that the suspects had crossed various “government mandates and laws” -  in those cases – there was a “cult”, “immoral and subversive activities”, “weapons violations”, etc etc. Those are all the reasoning needed (whether we agree with said laws or not)  for the Federal Government to act and bring the full weight of their Enforcement Arms against the accused.

They (The US Government) don’t have this same background to act on  in this situation, this is a family of  ranchers that have worked this land for decades and suddenly the USG via some mandate  is telling them they can’t, or they have to pay extortionate fees to work it now – hard working otherwise “normal Americans” – this is  not a “cult”, and not a so called “subversive”, and the USG looks like pretty much what they are, a bunch of bumbling idiots with nothing more than a lot of firepower at their fingertips. There’s no win here for them. None.

As I see it? The USG is going to loose that war of ideas, no matter how much the MSM tries to spin it in the government’s favor, and I don’t think the court of public opinion is going to look favorably on the USG in this case.

Let’s hope that someone in the bowels of D.C. has a bit of common sense and chooses to take a look at this in an objective manner and use some common sense here to defuse this. Because if they don’t, there’s a powder keg out there in Nevada and the fuse is getting pretty short.

Update 1 **

Below is a letter from Bundy’s daughter – I pulled this from a post on FB, so trust but verify is in effect, it is a letter that attempts to explain the families side of this situation.

“I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it is in a nut shell.

My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.

These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.

My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these money’s against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they’re own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penance he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.

So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the endangered species card. You’ve already heard about the desert tortoise.

Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now their desperate. It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.

Now you may be saying,” how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you. They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again. Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next. Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him.

Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it. They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them. All with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are? Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”

Shiree Bundy Cox

 Update 2 **

The Oath Keepers have taken up the cause for the Bundy’s and O-K  members are en-route to the ranch, They  are asking for donations to help with food and water at the Bundy Ranch LINK to donation

FYI – I am not a member of Oath Keepers so I am not peddling for them – although I did send out what I could to support them.

Update 3 ** 

Here is yet another angle on this situation and why the BLM is acting so aggressively – again, trust but verify….

“It is not about turtles it is about water. There are developers working for military contractors that want that land and water for mining weapons grade minerals for industry… they want to sell the land by the highway for real estate development because it’s close to I-15 and the Bundy’s have been refusing to sell what they actually own directly for over 20 years. Many buyers sent me out there with crazy offers for that land for many years. It is prime real estate not worthless desert. There is a natural gas pipeline going through there and lots of water under ground too. Somebody connected to a military corporation is using political power and the BLM to muscle those people out.”

Source

Update 4 **

Nothing happens in NV without Harry Reid’s fingerprint on it – or so it seems. Reuters reported back as far as August 2012 that Reid and his oldest son Rory, a lawyer with NV’s largest law firm were trying to work a 5 billion dollar deal with the Chicoms to use the land for a solar farm and factory.

 

80 comments

  1. 1
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    Glenn Beck has a lot about this on The Blaze.

    Special feature:

    Agents from the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service closed the Gold Butte area in Clark County, Nev., last week to remove 67-year-old rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle from land controlled by the federal government, but put in place “First Amendment zones” for protesters to gather.

    ‘Scuse ME, Feds, but the ENTIRE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is our FIRST AMENDMENT ZONE.

    Apparently the Bundy family has been running cattle on this stretch of land since the 1870s. Now, you could argue that Mr. Bundy should pay a fee for that (the BLM now charges ranchers for grazing on public lands), but I’d like to know what that fee goes for.

    Video of the confrontation and article about it here, at the Blaze: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/10/tense-video-feds-taser-pro-nevada-rancher-protester-during-clash/

  2. 2
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    I think there will be a “Shots fired” situation down there. I also suspect it won’t be at the Bundy family, but at the protestors. Some idiot will either sic a dog on some protestors or fire a taser and someone will pull a gun and fire back.
    :em06:
    When that happens, it will be “Game On” and the only way to shut it down will be if the governor gets off the pot and send in the National Guard to remove the BLM.

    If “Bad Things” start down there, the BLM is probably going to lose their entire team and then will come the follow up. I think it’s going to be a long hot summer.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Review: Captain America: The Winter SoldierMy Profile

  3. 3
    LC Roguetek growls and barks:

    Bundy’s family has been working that land since 1870 I think. So ‘almost a century and a half’. What’s ironic, is under any other circumstances, ‘adversarial posession’ would apply.

  4. 4
    Jerome growls and barks:

    Best case scenario here is either .gov gets a peaceful arrest (complete BS but beats worst case) or they realize they are in a situation that could spin out of control rapidly and back off. Worst case is someone turns it into a two way firing range and, if past is prolog, that person would most likely be one of the JBT’s from the alphabet agencies. I know the OP said this isn’t Ruby Ridge but all it takes is one sniper shooting a wife or kid and then it will look pretty similar to me….

  5. 5
    VonZorch Imperial Researcher growls and barks:

    Over at WRSA there is the claim that it’s really about Filthy Harry’s son in a deal with a Chinese company to build a large solar panel plant and generating facility. They source from Infowars so it’s not completely reliable.

  6. 6
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    VonZorch Imperial Researcher @ #:

    Over at WRSA there is the claim that it’s really about Filthy Harry’s son in a deal with a Chinese company to build a large solar panel plant and generating facility. They source from Infowars so it’s not completely reliable.

    I saw that’ It’s also on Drudge, although why he has been linking to Infowars is a mystery to me.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Tax Freedom Day? What is that?My Profile

  7. 7
    LC Moriarty, Imperial Goatherd growls and barks:

    A large part of the problem stems from the typical pattern of Federal agency involvement. When things get a little too intense for the local office to manage, the Feds pull in agents from other areas. These people have no investment in maintaining a good relationship with the community and there’s no incentive to avoid being heavy-handed. The attitude is that it’s sort of fun to teach the local yokels a lesson about who’s in charge.

    A regional BLM office absolutely depends on the cooperation of local law enforcement and the citizenry. Once the “pros from Dover” leave, they’re left with a PR mess that can last for decades.

    A number of years back the Forest Service decided to close roads in Elko, Nevada. Some of these roads had been in use for generations. They took a heavy-handed approach, locking out and threatening ranchers, hunters and other local residents. It didn’t take long before USFS employees found themselves unable to get a seat at a local restaurant or buy groceries. Cooperation from virtually everyone stopped.

    Very shortly thereafter it was all declared a “misunderstanding” and the roads were reopened. The Forest Service and BLM still tread lightly in that part of the world.

    In rural Nevada, the BLM is viewed with suspicion and disdain bordering on outright contempt. This is where the “Sagebrush Rebellion” started. They need to figure out how to wrap this up… peacefully and quickly and get the hell out of there.

  8. 8

    I’ve updated with a superposed letter from a Bundy family member explaining their side of the story.

    I’m not quite ready to pull the trigger on the Harry Reid / Big Money angle – that’s Infowar’s linked and I trust that site about as much as I do Obama. Although, if true – would anyone really be surprised?
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent recently posted..On the Nevada situationMy Profile

  9. 9
    Library Czar growls and barks:

    LC Moriarty

    I think you have something there. Engage all the local business to stop selling anything to any federal agency. No gas, food, no car repair. The AC unit at the home you live in breaks, sorry we’re to busy to fix it. Identify the feds local and “Pro’s from Dover” and shut them out of the community.

  10. 10
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    Gov declared the are a no-fly zone a couple of hours ago.
    http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_4_1687.html
    LadyRaven recently posted..The Battle For Bundy Ridge – the who and the whyMy Profile

  11. 11
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Gov declared the are a no-fly zone a couple of hours ago.

    Look again. Restricted by altitude, yes but not a no fly zone. low flight not permitted, anything over 4000 feet is fine.

    From the surface up to and including 3000 feet AGL

  12. 12
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    LCBrendan @ #:11
    Thank you for the clarification, and, it does not relieve my concerns that it leaves media coverage out but just as important would be medical evacuations would be impossible, or, am I incorrect on this and medical people could get thru?
    LadyRaven recently posted..A cowboy: “If they fire the first shot, we will fire the rest!”My Profile

  13. 13
    LC Moriarty, Imperial Goatherd growls and barks:

    LadyRaven @ #10:

    Not surprising. Can’t have anyone flying over taking pictures of cattle being killed and buried. Of course, there are plenty of people who have RC planes with cameras…

    The protestors aren’t being too smart about this. They haven’t read their history. Gandhi, for whatever his personal flaws, had the right idea: Lie down in the middle of the road. When commanded to leave, clutch their chest and reply that they think they’re having a heart attack (or heat stroke or a seizure or whatever) and need immediate medical attention.

    Tasering someone under circumstances like that, especially on camera, would create a liability buffet and a PR nightmare. The worst that would happen to the victim (assuming they were faking it) would be EMS transport and overnight observation, the bills being covered under Obamacare. Whatever the BLM was doing at the scene would have to stop until stabilization and transport could be affected.

    Overtime, liability risk, PR problems… a little foresight and planning could turn it into a mess they’d be only too happy to walk away from.

  14. 14
    Jerome growls and barks:

    Medical people could get through because they’d be called in by the feds but it prevents news crews from watching by helicopter and depending upon the perimeter they have set up it could prevent the media from seeing anything that goes on at that residence. That could be really bad because there would be no outside proof of anything that goes down there.

    And I’ve heard from some of my contacts that there is a fairly large number of militia headed that way with the average number i’m hearing being around 2000 but I’ll believe it when I see it. Until then keep your powder dry boys and girls, this could get interesting

  15. 15
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    LC Moriarty, Imperial Goatherd @ #:13
    Great idea. Oh that they would!
    LadyRaven recently posted..A cowboy: “If they fire the first shot, we will fire the rest!”My Profile

  16. 16
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it was some Big Dog who wanted water or mineral rights, using the Goobermint as their janissaries.

    Example: In New York City, Pinko Mayor Bill de Blah-zero announced, with pearl-clutching and anguished sympathy, that he thought it was DREADFUL that the horses have to pull CARRIAGES in CENTRAL PARK.

    Cruelty to animals!!!! [actually, they never go faster than a walk, never pull anything but tourists, and mostly hang around at the corner of Fifth Ave. and 59th St.]

    Anyway, I told a blue-collar Dim friend that, if they “retire” those horses, they won’t be taking to Green Acres, they’ll be taken to the glue factory and killed. She protested naively that they’d be sent to the country to live. “Oh? and who’ll pay for that?” I asked her.

    Well, a few days later, someone actually INVESTIGATED De Blasio and found out that he’d gotten:

    1. A huge donation from a real estate baron, who
    2. Wanted to build on the west side of Midtown, RIGHT where …
    3. The horses’ stable is standing!!!!

    Oh, and yes, they were planning to KILL ALL THE HORSES that the Leftards were supposedly so fucking concerned about.

    See how it works? (I know I’m preaching to the choir here, just giving another example of the alliance of big govt. and big money.)

  17. 17
    Tallulah growls and barks:

    Moriarty, that’s an EXCELLENT idea: use Gandhi’s tactics.

    The PR hit for the Goobermint would be bad.

  18. 18
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    While attention is focused there, it might be a good time for those who wanted to carry out something else to act. (No, I don’t know what & haven’t got a plan.) :em03:

  19. 19
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    LC Xystus @ #:18
    Unfortunately LC Xystus – it is probably going to be more gov doing something else while our attention is focused on Nevada i.e.
    http://www.pissinontheroses.blogspot.com/2014/04/dod-has-deployed-ebola-detection-kits.html
    LadyRaven recently posted..The Battle For Bundy Ridge – the who and the whyMy Profile

  20. 20
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    And this was just posted -
    Aerial photos of restricted BLM Compound #BundyRanch
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOjheKG1eOA
    LadyRaven recently posted..The Battle For Bundy Ridge – the who and the whyMy Profile

  21. 21
    LC Moriarty, Imperial Goatherd growls and barks:

    Tallulah @ #:

    I’d hasten to add that nonviolent “passive resistance” only works when you have a government that can be shamed into (or out of) something. It worked against the British in India because they were conscious of world opinion. As one commentator put it, had Gandhi tried it against the Japanese or Germans in WW2 (as he advocated to others), his headless corpse would have last been seen floating down the Ganges.

    This is a government that’s paying lip service to the “rights” of a walking bowl of soup. The way to respond is not with guns; they know exactly how to deal with that. The protestors have iPhones, access to cash hungry lawyers (they’re near Vegas, after all…) and a wealth of sympathy and support from a state that’s always looked askance at Federal intrusion into our way of life. Gandhi-esque tactics would likely have a better chance to succeed than open, armed resistance. They have a wealth of Jedi mind tricks to draw on against and opponent reading from a policies and procedures manual.

    This is a psychological conflict. If they play it right it won’t matter how many dogs, tasers or snipers they other side has.

  22. 22
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    Thank you for the clarification, and, it does not relieve my concerns that it leaves media coverage out but just as important would be medical evacuations would be impossible, or, am I incorrect on this and medical people could get thru?

    No

    Medevac units would be permitted into a block airspace at any time. The FAA agreed to the AGL flight restriction, but med units have priority.

    Media units can still take photos, and even at 4000 AGL they can see everything, Not low level, granted, but with todays tech? Hell; they can use a media satellite and take photos of what the Feds are having for lunch :em05: :em05: :em05:

  23. 23
  24. 24

    angrywebmaster says:

    Breaking news. BLM is pulling out.

    angrywebmaster recently posted..The Bundy’s verses the BLM

    score one for the patriots…..the feds sent in their third string to start the game. Now my guess is that they’ll send in the varsity, watch for the IRS to take charge of this.

  25. 25

    for some reason, the song The Ostrich by Steppenwolf just stuck in my head this morning….especially this verse

    You’re free to speak your mind my friend
    As long as you agree with me
    Don’t criticize the fatherland
    Or those who shape your destiny
    ‘Cause if you do
    You’ll lose your job, your mind and all the friends you knew
    We’ll send out all our boys in blue
    They’ll find a way to silence you

  26. 26
    Library Czar growls and barks:

    Or the EPA will find The slack jawed, blotchy faced, blurry eyed, pederasty has precedence over any human that wants to live on the property. So they will remove Bundy and his family one way or another.

  27. 27
    JonB growls and barks:

    angrywebmaster says:

    Breaking news. BLM is pulling out.

    angrywebmaster recently posted..The Bundy’s verses the BLM

    I don’t buy this “pull out” for one second.

    The government didn’t get what they wanted.

    This is far from over. They are just looking to do things quietly and out of the eye of the angry public

  28. 28
    LC Moriarty, Imperial Goatherd growls and barks:

    JonB @ #:

    I agree.

    They’ll be back, all right.

    Next time at 4 am with a SWAT team, or they’ll just grab him when he goes to town to buy groceries.

    Probably not for some months, but they will be back.

  29. 29
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Then those who are up for opposition there should lay their own contingency plans.

  30. 30
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    It ain’t over till Mr. Bundy sings! I love this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTkImbHI28U
    LadyRaven recently posted..The Battle for Bundy Ridge – NOT over – Bundy does not recognize the BLMMy Profile

  31. 31
    Terrapod growls and barks:

    Looks like the Feds have backed off. If this is a true quit and depart, then it is the first smart thing that this Admin has done since 2008. Not that the news on Harry Reid being in bed with the Chicoms or that he is trying to force a land grab for his family in NEvada has anything to do with it / Sarc intended/

  32. 32
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Personally, I think they began to understand that this could end up as a reverse Waco with the BLM playing the part of the Branch Davidians.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Review: Captain America: The Winter SoldierMy Profile

  33. 33

    LadyRaven says:

    It ain’t over till Mr. Bundy sings! I love this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTkImbHI28U
    LadyRaven recently posted..The Battle for Bundy Ridge – NOT over – Bundy does not recognize the BLM

    Bundy needs to play this smarter, not make demands like that on the sheriff. He has a lot of attention on him right now, and a sympathetic public behind him….if he is gracious in his victory then that status grows, if he starts making ridiculous demands like that then he squanders that symapthy and support.

  34. 34
    Idahomillenial growls and barks:

    http://i.imgur.com/SplIkAp.jpg

    Here is a picture of the standoff.

  35. 35
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!

    1. I am overjoyed Bundy won
    2. I am even happier that not ONE SHOT was fired and everyone walks away alive
    3. Jaybear is right, he needs to stand down and let this happen on its own.

    He won. That should be how this ends.

    As for SWAT: No, I dont see it happening.

  36. 36

    While this is supposedly “over” from a stand – off perspective, it’s not over for Bundy, not over by a long shot.

    The USG claims he owes them 1.1 Million dollars – now does anyone here seriously think that the Feds are going to leave that money on the table?
    Hardly, They will seize everything he owns, trucks, livestock, cars, land, home, farm equipment, tractors, bank accounts, all of it, he’ll loose it all.
    The dispute with the BLM is a popcorn fart in a hurricane compared to the power of the IRS and the army of accountants backed by armed up goons that are going to put a microscope up his tail – and trust me with a TAX Code some 1700 pages long…..they WILL find a way to seize it all.

    In fact I am surprised that wasn’t the first move they made, but decided to stage what could only be a public relations SNAFU and take a bunch of his cows.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent recently posted..On the Nevada situationMy Profile

  37. 37

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent says:

    In fact I am surprised that wasn’t the first move they made, but decided to stage what could only be a public relations SNAFU and take a bunch of his cows.

    yeah, that’s the thing that has me confused about this whole clusterf***. If it was primarily a tax issue then what’s with the sideshow of turtles and armed BLM agents? Like you said, send in the IRS and take everything he owns.

    Back in the medieval days of warfare, the enemy would make a demonstration outside a fortress’ walls, to see what the defenders reaction would be. It was a way to measure the strength of your enemy, and identify them as well……I wonder how many drones the feds had up in the sky documenting the faces and license plates and firepower of all the patriots that showed up.

  38. 38

    Jay Bear says:

    I wonder how many drones the feds had up in the sky documenting the faces and license plates and firepower of all the patriots that showed up.

    Putting the flight restriction in place above this land – is the first clue that they may have had a drone up there.

    Problem is – and this I know to be fact – no-one on the ground would be any wiser that they had them up. I’ve seen them in action, or well let me rephrase that – I know of them being in action. I never saw shit and I looked for them – they were up there someplace but try as I might, I never heard or saw a single one in the 4-5 months I was in the area they were being used.

    That’s why I get a chuckle of nonsense legislators proposing laws like out in CO to give people authority shoot down drones – Good luck with that.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent recently posted..On the Nevada situationMy Profile

  39. 39
    LC Xystus growls and barks:

    Started thinking today about using cheap little remote-control drones against helicopters. :em03: That’s all I’m gonna say.

  40. 40
    Library Czar growls and barks:

    The Saga of Bundy Ranch

    After reading about his for 3 plus days I am of the opinion that Mr Bundy and his family are wrong and have placed others lives in danger. He could have avoided much of this IF he had rounded up his cows and moved them either back to his property or previous grazing grounds. The above link spells it out pretty clearly.

    As far as I can tell the land does belong to the Federal Government. We may not like it but that appears to be the case. The land was ceded to the Federal Government in 1848 when the Mexicans and the USA signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. If you are a Texan or live in Arizona and don’t know what that is you might want to look into it.

    As far as the alleged pederast being involved with his son and the Chinese in a deal for part of the Bundy ranch, that is pretty much total bunk. The land in question the alleged Pederast Harry Reid is involved with is nigh 20 miles away. Once again Infowars and Alex Jones are almost 100% wrong.

    This is not a hill worth dying on, literally or figuratively. Tell Bundy to round up his wayward cattle and move them back to traditional grazing areas. I believe the government would then be willing to discuss arrangements for continued access to public lands.

  41. 41
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Library Czar @ #:

    As far as I can tell the land does belong to the Federal Government. We may not like it but that appears to be the case. The land was ceded to the Federal Government in 1848 when the Mexicans and the USA signed the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. If you are a Texan or live in Arizona and don’t know what that is you might want to look into it.

    There is actually a bit of a discussion about the Feds owning land. Technically, they can’t except in limited circumstances such as defense or if it is a territory. States theoretically own all the land, so to speak.

    The lawyer on the forum said it was an assumption that they could own land. The blame for this can be laid at the feet of Roosevelt. Teddy, not Franklin.

    Then there is the issue that the BLM didn’t exist when the family started ranching, and that they had been paying the state.

    And then we have the meme that this was a land grab by Harry Reid.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..The Bundy’s verses the BLMMy Profile

  42. 42
    FrankOK growls and barks:

    @LC IB CiSSnarl:

    We’ve all been so busy detailing our disgust that your situation seems to have been forgotten – I won’t. Dealing with a parent’s imminent death isn’t easy. I did so myself last November, just 10 days before her 103rd birthday.

    Prayers downrange, sir.
    FrankOK recently posted..A win? We shall seeMy Profile

  43. 43

    FrankOK says:

    @LC IB CiSSnarl:

    We’ve all been so busy detailing our disgust that your situation seems to have been forgotten – I won’t. Dealing with a parent’s imminent death isn’t easy. I did so myself last November, just 10 days before her 103rd birthday.

    Prayers downrange, sir.
    FrankOK recently posted..A win? We shall see

    prayers outbound here as well man, I don’t have any parents anymore so I know how badly that hurts.

  44. 44

    FrankOK @ #: 42

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #: 43

    Thank You gents, 2014 has been – like for many here – a tough one, but letting the rats win the race – well that just ain’t an option.
    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent recently posted..On the Nevada situationMy Profile

  45. 45
    Idahomillenial growls and barks:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer1YidkfPY

    This doesn’t look like a government retreat. This looks like reinforcements. Keep your eyes on Nevada.

  46. 46
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    Idahomillenial @ #:45
    This version of the same video says it was taken on Saturday afternoon. I am assuming, and praying, that they were just late for the party and probably turned around and went home shortly after.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KOusCjvlTc
    Did not like this piece someone sent me an hour ago.
    50 Black Vehicles Reported In Route to Bundy Ranch:http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=880
    LadyRaven recently posted..The Battle for Bundy Ridge – Goin home – And the Lord saw that it was good..My Profile

  47. 47
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    50 Black Vehicles Reported In Route to Bundy Ranch:http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=880

    This guy Quayle makes Alex Jones look SANE.

  48. 48
    FrankOK growls and barks:

    Item one: Still waiting for Reid to make an explanation re: his boy’s dealings with the ChiComs – a denial would be in the finest tradition of politicians from both parties. Damn, those crickets are loud!

    Item two: A white supremist shoots up a Jewish Center, almost on cue, after the feds realize their BLM bastards may have gotten their heads handed to them in Nevada. More calls for gun control on the way. This has been the order of things for years and I see no change on the horizon without some rather drastic action.
    FrankOK recently posted..A win? We shall seeMy Profile

  49. 49
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    YO! HEMP! Sound off with a AAR when you get the chance. Please.

    “The Federal Government Owns it”……….And just who is the Federal Govt? Why do the Feds “own” large parcels of land? Seems to me its the States that should own the land. Shouldn’t ownership of the land gone to the “State” upon being recognized as such by the Feds? I know that’s probably a “simplified” question….

    All the twists and turns surrounding this situation.. did it result from environmentalism? A shady political deal? Or is it money? If its just the money, the BLM claims to be so underfunded that it cant perform its mgmt duties re: the wild horses in certain areas, but they can spend how much to screw with Bundy? Why?

  50. 50
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    LCBrendan @ #:47
    Duly noted and I heard Mr. Bundy on Glen Beck this morning so that was a relief.
    LadyRaven recently posted..Battle for Bundy Ridge – VICTORY!My Profile

  51. 51
  52. 52
    bruce growls and barks:

    i had heard that harry and rotten son were trying to steal some ones land,i guess it was true.but for the chicoms? harry has always been a commie traitor.bundy should move his cows back to his own land.

  53. 53
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    @Raven: Quayle, aliens, secret underground bunkers, conspiracies..oh FFS…. :em02:

  54. 54
    VonZorch Imperial Researcher growls and barks:

    Idahomillenial says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer1YidkfPY
    This doesn’t look like a government retreat. This looks like reinforcements. Keep your eyes on Nevada.

    Those are Las Vegas PD vehicles. Looks like the feds are handing off to the locals for appearances sake.
    TWAT raid on the Bundy’s soon.

  55. 55
    JonB growls and barks:

    What bugs me is that there were so many other roads the feds could have taken to resolve the problems they percieve with this rancher.

    This stinks more of a test to me. A test to see how many patriots would show up to aid someone, and how well armed and organized they were when they did so.

  56. 56

    JonB says:

    What bugs me is that there were so many other roads the feds could have taken to resolve the problems they percieve with this rancher.

    This stinks more of a test to me. A test to see how many patriots would show up to aid someone, and how well armed and organized they were when they did so.

    yep, that’s my suspicion as well……

  57. 57
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:
    So, if this is a test, what results were they looking for? If it was to see how many showed up, then they probably got a bit of a shock. I also suspect they found out that they were out gunned as well.

    BLM: M-16′s, M4′s, shotguns, submachine guns and a few .30cal scoped rifles, sidearms, probably 9mm or .40

    The Citizens: AR-15′s in 5.56, 6.5mm Grendal, 6.8mm SPC, .300 Blackout, M1A’s, AR-10′s, assorted bolt action rifles in the .30cal and better, probably a few .50cal rifles left in trunks unless needed, (Damn things are heavy), and assorted sidearms covering just about every pistol caliber known to man.

    BLM may have heard of another incident at a place called “Little Big Horn.”
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Harry Reid supports Rape?My Profile

  58. 58
    LC TerribleTroy growls and barks:

    @ Jon & Jay.

    I dont think they planned this as a test. I think they got caught with their pants down in regards to the patriots response. I was shocked to see Oathkeepers put the call out. So I dont think this was a test by any design. Certainly we all agree that both sides are busy as little bee’s analyzing each others intel.

    I also think that the patriot response factor will snowball in future events….kinda the human condition….once a bunch of people see something can be done, they have a tendency to join, mimic, and improve. For instance, we all have lives and many of us cant just drop everything and run off for a week due to our familial / financial obligations. But there are folks that (thanks to the fucked up economy) aren’t hindered so much. Problem is, they dont have the resources to afford the trip. Short story long, they will develop “crowd-sourced” (for lack of a better descriptor) response “teams.”

    .

  59. 59
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LC TerribleTroy @ #:

    Problem is, they dont have the resources to afford the trip. Short story long, they will develop “crowd-sourced” (for lack of a better descriptor) response “teams.”

    Sounds like we need to start a Kickstarter project. :em01:

    I also think that the patriot response factor will snowball in future events….kinda the human condition….once a bunch of people see something can be done, they have a tendency to join, mimic, and improve.

    The “Next big thing” might be the New York and Connecticut gun laws that are kicking in….and being ignored. That depends on just how stupid the powers that be are.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Harry Reid supports Rape?My Profile

  60. 60
    FrankOK growls and barks:

    I found this and it’s so far out it wouldn’t surprise me – has anyone heard about this?

    • Joseph Matteo • FollowFollowing • Top Commenter • IATSE LOCAL 244 essex county N.J. at IATSE
    Bureau of Land Management(BLM) is actually a sub-corporation of UNITED STATES INCORPORATED, a private foreign owned off-shore corporation since its last incorporation in 1925, copyrighted, trademarked and registered in Puerto Rico).Under the Reorganization Act of Washington District of Columbia, by it’s
    own private business charter Neither the BLM, nor any other federal/corporate agency has lawful/legal authority, jurisdiction or interstate nexus within the 50 state geographical landmass.
    BLM, is actually classified as an: “Agent of Foreign Principle”, under the intergovernmental Personnel Act.
    In other words, they don’t represent the Constitutional Republic or the interests of the American People but rather, a foreign owned principle i.e., the international banking/military corporate cartel of London City, England known as Crown Corporation as their supreme authority.This has been openly admitted and exposed through Supreme Court cases since and even before 1938.

    FrankOK recently posted..A win? We shall seeMy Profile

  61. 61

    angrywebmaster says:

    So, if this is a test, what results were they looking for? If it was to see how many showed up, then they probably got a bit of a shock. I also suspect they found out that they were out gunned as well.

    I suspect they were gathering names, faces, and weapons, and license plates…..CisSnarl put it this way and I agree with him:

    LC IB CiSSnarl5.7 Imperial Foreign War Correspondent says:

    Putting the flight restriction in place above this land – is the first clue that they may have had a drone up there.

    angrywebmaster says:

    BLM: M-16?s, M4?s, shotguns, submachine guns and a few .30cal scoped rifles, sidearms, probably 9mm or .40

    and drones and helicopters and armored vehicles if needed…..

    angrywebmaster says:

    The Citizens: AR-15?s in 5.56, 6.5mm Grendal, 6.8mm SPC, .300 Blackout, M1A’s, AR-10?s, assorted bolt action rifles in the .30cal and better, probably a few .50cal rifles left in trunks unless needed, (Damn things are heavy), and assorted sidearms covering just about every pistol caliber known to man.

    with a limited supply of ammo in the field and not much chance of a re-supply drop.

    angrywebmaster says:

    BLM may have heard of another incident at a place called “Little Big Horn.”

    biggest difference was that the Indians were already there when Custer rode in to displace them…..

    this was a data gathering exercise, hence the rapid de-escalation. They got what they needed.

  62. 62

    also, what better way to marginalize the militia patriots than by getting them to deploy to remote out of the way, desolate places like the Nevada highlands or Utah badlands? Cause an incident, wait for them to show up. close them off from leaving. Do it in a few places simultaneously, you scatter them, and you isolate them.

    Classic battle strategy, defeat your enemy piece by piece, never give them the chance to join their forces…..

  63. 63
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    I don’t doubt the drones, but if the Feds start going after some of the people there, what’s to stop other people from “Making examples” of some of the Feds? That would be a “Game On!” situation.

    Ammunition? I have no idea how much was brought in by people. Helicopters? These are NOT Apache gun ships. They are a loose collection of parts all headed in the same direction.
    :em05:
    seriously, if they came into range, they would have been brought down. I may be misremembering this, but weren’t there a couple of helicopters involved in the initial Branch Davidian raid and wasn’t at least one brought down? (Forced landing due to the sudden appearance of holes in the engines)

    Armored vehicles? Didn’t see any, and frankly the MRAPS probably wouldn’t be all the great. They could be blocked in easily by cars. If they tried to drive over or push them out of the way? Would you like a nice cocktail? I have one invented by this cuy named Molotov.

    And finally, the BLM was outnumbered and it appears they were slowly being surrounded. (I can’t confirm this)

    If “Bad Things” had started, it would have cost a lot of Patriot types their lives, but the entire BLM force would have been slaughtered.

    Now we are all working from a lack of information on just what “Might” have happened. We need to speak to a few people who were there.

    And of course, Dingy Harry Reid had to put his foot in it again with a “This isn’t over!” remark. Has he considered what might happen if the FBI snuck back in and the Bundy’s got killed? I would say, among other things, Reid would be killed, along with any security detail he had.

    I get the feeling we are standing on the bank of the Rubicon and the Statists are on the other side yelling “Go ahead! We dare you!
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Harry Reid supports Rape?My Profile

  64. 64

    angrywebmaster says:

    And of course, Dingy Harry Reid had to put his foot in it again with a “This isn’t over!” remark. Has he considered what might happen if the FBI snuck back in and the Bundy’s got killed? I would say, among other things, Reid would be killed, along with any security detail he had.

    I get the feeling we are standing on the bank of the Rubicon and the Statists are on the other side yelling “Go ahead! We dare you!

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for putting a stop to commissar Reid and his useful idiots reign, but it has to be done smarter than this. Calling the minutemen to Bundy/Lexington Green won’t win this, a Continental Army will……the patriots need to unify and organize and go in under one flag.

  65. 65
    LCBrendan growls and barks:

    • Joseph Matteo • FollowFollowing • Top Commenter • IATSE LOCAL 244 essex county N.J. at IATSE
    Bureau of Land Management(BLM) is actually a sub-corporation of UNITED STATES INCORPORATED, a private foreign owned off-shore corporation since its last incorporation in 1925, copyrighted, trademarked and registered in Puerto Rico).Under the Reorganization Act of Washington District of Columbia, by it’s own private business charter Neither the BLM, nor any other federal/corporate agency has lawful/legal authority, jurisdiction or interstate nexus within the 50 state geographical landmass.
    BLM, is actually classified as an: “Agent of Foreign Principle”, under the intergovernmental Personnel Act.
    In other words, they don’t represent the Constitutional Republic or the interests of the American People but rather, a foreign owned principle i.e., the international banking/military corporate cartel of London City, England known as Crown Corporation as their supreme authority.This has been openly admitted and exposed through Supreme Court cases since and even before 1938.

    These idiots are the same kind of fuckwits that uise this garbage to try and dodge debts etc. “I am a sovereign man who does not recognise your authority as you are owned by international banksters..” yeah didnt stop you from sp[ending the mioney, did it you deadbeat?

    ..can we PLEASE stop using the lunatic fringe in these threads? And FFS no more Alex Jones or his ilk. They’re all nutters.

  66. 66
    FrankOK growls and barks:

    LCBrendan says:

    These idiots are the same kind of fuckwits that uise this garbage to try and dodge debts etc. “I am a sovereign man who does not recognise your authority as you are owned by international banksters..” yeah didnt stop you from sp[ending the mioney, did it you deadbeat?

    ..can we PLEASE stop using the lunatic fringe in these threads? And FFS no more Alex Jones or his ilk. They’re all nutters.

    Quite obviously, the down under response to any question is an asschewing – notice that I did ask as I’d not heard this stuff before.

    Pardon me, douchebag – I’ll not sully your personal website with further questions.
    FrankOK recently posted..A win? We shall seeMy Profile

  67. 67
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    JonB says:

    This stinks more of a test to me. A test to see how many patriots would show up to aid someone, and how well armed and organized they were when they did so.

    If so, and it looks that way, I approve of the answer they got.

    And apparently they got the message too: There’s a whole lot more of us than there are of you, we will show up and no, we won’t start anything. I agree with this message.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..Ten Years GoneMy Profile

  68. 68
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    LC TerribleTroy says:

    I also think that the patriot response factor will snowball in future events….kinda the human condition….once a bunch of people see something can be done, they have a tendency to join, mimic, and improve.

    And this too. That is how it always starts with a preference cascade. Everybody’s holding back because they think they’re the only one, so what’s the point? Nobody wants to be charging the enemy positions only to find themselves alone in no-man’s land with everybody else still cowering in the trenches. But once the cat’s out of the bag, once the snowball starts rolling, it’s a different matter entirely.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..You Better Back off, FascistsMy Profile

  69. 69
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    FrankOK says:

    Pardon me, douchebag – I’ll not sully your personal website with further questions.

    Hey, it’s my website and you can ask all the damn questions you like! :D

    I think poor Brendan is just getting an allergic reaction to the Alex Joneses of the world and, quite frankly, so am I. Actually, I scratched his little nutjob sender off the dial back when he started singing along with the 9/11 “truthers”. Still doesn’t mean that one can’t ask an honest question, though.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..You Better Back off, FascistsMy Profile

  70. 70
    FrankOK growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I says:

    FrankOK says:

    Pardon me, douchebag – I’ll not sully your personal website with further questions.

    Hey, it’s my website and you can ask all the damn questions you like!

    I think poor Brendan is just getting an allergic reaction to the Alex Joneses of the world and, quite frankly, so am I. Actually, I scratched his little nutjob sender off the dial back when he started singing along with the 9/11 “truthers”. Still doesn’t mean that one can’t ask an honest question, though.

    Emperor Misha I recently posted..You Better Back off, Fascists

    Years ago, I read something along those lines and had to ask if anyone else had read it – didn’t realize it was one of the theories I hadn’t read – that’s why I asked. Wasn’t ready for the reaction I’d get.

    Ah, yes Sire – I recognize it’s your website – didn’t turn off the sarcasm [/sarcasm].
    FrankOK recently posted..A win? We shall seeMy Profile

  71. 71
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    FrankOK says:

    Ah, yes Sire – I recognize it’s your website – didn’t turn off the sarcasm [/sarcasm].

    I know. No harm, no foul. Beautiful snark, though :em05:
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..You Better Back off, FascistsMy Profile

  72. 72
    bruce growls and barks:

    this crap is no different than the illegal gun laws that the commie legislature have passed.i don’t obey any of them because i buy from private parties.

  73. 73
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    bruce @ #:

    this crap is no different than the illegal gun laws that the commie legislature have passed.i don’t obey any of them because i buy from private parties.

    And speaking of purchases, I’m on another forum and a gentleman gambler has asked what would be the proper pistol for concealed carry into a casino. He’s former military and has a preference for 1911′s, (As all real Americans do) but understands that a full size 1911 would be difficult to conceal and sit with at the tables for 8 hours.
    He really likes .45, doesn’t really like 9mm and isn’t to familiar with .40. He also said that he will use whatever caliber is the best for concealment/comfort and asked for suggestions. He also has a budget of $600 or less.
    The forum in question eats gun grabbers for breakfast so he won’t get jumped on for that. he will get a number of answers and I thought I would go further afield.
    I recommended my SR9C even if it is 9mm. I have a .45 commander sized pistol, (Sig 1911 C3) but it’s way out of his price range.
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  74. 74

    angrywebmaster says:

    bruce @ #:
    this crap is no different than the illegal gun laws that the commie legislature have passed.i don’t obey any of them because i buy from private parties.
    And speaking of purchases, I’m on another forum and a gentleman gambler has asked what would be the proper pistol for concealed carry into a casino. He’s former military and has a preference for 1911?s, (As all real Americans do) but understands that a full size 1911 would be difficult to conceal and sit with at the tables for 8 hours.
    He really likes .45, doesn’t really like 9mm and isn’t to familiar with .40. He also said that he will use whatever caliber is the best for concealment/comfort and asked for suggestions. He also has a budget of $600 or less.
    The forum in question eats gun grabbers for breakfast so he won’t get jumped on for that. he will get a number of answers and I thought I would go further afield.
    I recommended my SR9C even if it is 9mm. I have a .45 commander sized pistol, (Sig 1911 C3) but it’s way out of his price range.
    angrywebmaster recently posted..Harry Reid: It’s not over

    I like my Kimber Classic .45. Fits my hand like a glove.

    what’s the forum? I’d be interested in seeing what they say

  75. 75
    Emperor Misha I growls and barks:

    angrywebmaster says:

    The forum in question eats gun grabbers for breakfast so he won’t get jumped on for that. he will get a number of answers and I thought I would go further afield.

    Ah, preferences. I’ll start by saying “whatever he thinks is fun shooting” and “whatever will meet his concealment needs.” Caliber is just a number. A .22 on target is better than half a dozen .45s in the wall.

    I personally like my cute little Steyr 9mm for social occasions. It’s accurate as all get out, intuitive to aim with its triangular sights (once I got used to them) and doesn’t take up any space hardly at all. And it doesn’t feel like a brick in my hand, unlike Gaston Glock’s creations, which I like a lot apart from that. The Glocks are lovely, utilitarian pistols for all occasions, rugged and dependable, they just feel like like a King Crab leg in my hands.
    Emperor Misha I recently posted..You Better Back off, FascistsMy Profile

  76. 76
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    http://oathkeepers.org website down – they need help –

    Stewart Rhodes – “We are calling on all Oath Keepers who can possibly get here to come to the Bundy Ranch to serve as volunteers on an ongoing, rotating watch.
    That is not because there is any great emergency, but is a preventative measure – sort of like doing a rotation on the DMZ.

    This is temp site – http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/
    LadyRaven recently posted..Oath Keepers web site down – they need help!My Profile

  77. 77
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    LadyRaven @ #:

    http://oathkeepers.org website down – they need help –

    I just checked and it’s up.
    :em01:
    It may have been down under maintenance or simply overloaded.
    :em03:
    I wasn’t aware they now had associate memberships for those who weren’t in the military or other services. Time to check my finances.
    :em01:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..In memory of our moneyMy Profile

  78. 78
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Emperor Misha I @ #:

    Ah, preferences. I’ll start by saying “whatever he thinks is fun shooting” and “whatever will meet his concealment needs.” Caliber is just a number. A .22 on target is better than half a dozen .45s in the wall.

    From his remarks concealment is the primary issue then stopping power. He’s an old .45 hand so targeting from his remarks won’t be an issue. IIRC, he usually wears a sport coat and can make that always wears one, so he feels he can conceal anything under an AT-4 :em05:
    He is ex-military and a retired lawyer. Now he’s big into poker, (Playing and teaching) He’s more concerend with the casino’s he goes to. While they don’t post “No guns” signs, they will ask him to leave if they see him with one, and he does tend to carry large amounts of cash.
    At least he does when entering the casinos. Not so sure on leaving.
    :em05:
    I recommended my SR9C, which is in his price range. I also like my Sig 1911 C3 but that is way out of range, so to speak. :em05:
    angrywebmaster recently posted..In memory of our moneyMy Profile

  79. 79
    angrywebmaster growls and barks:

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @ #:

    what’s the forum? I’d be interested in seeing what they say

    Kratskeller on Baen’s Bar. (bar.bean.com)
    angrywebmaster recently posted..I’m an Engineer, not an administratorMy Profile

  80. 80
    LadyRaven growls and barks:

    angrywebmaster @ #:77
    Good it’s up, I haven’t checked in several hours.
    They are asking for funds to help with travel etc.
    I will be donating.
    If someone here wants to start a quick fund raise for anyone here who can go I’ll put it here.
    LadyRaven recently posted..Oath Keepers web site down – they need help!My Profile