The Wages of Treason in a Touchy-Feely Age of “Do Nothing”
We’re not going to spend too much time on that worthless wanker piece of shit Assange and his organization’s latest document dump, but anybody else is free to do so.
To be sure, there might be some fun to be had laughing at the Ogabe administration being embarrassed but, when it comes down to it, it isn’t really funny. Everybody knows that backroom deals are made in international politics, but there’s a good reason that they’re backroom deals in the first place. Sure, everybody might be “pretty sure” that it was really the U.S. behind blasting terrorist animals to smithereens in Yemen and not the Yemeni government as they claim, but “pretty sure” isn’t near as damaging as “knowing for certain.”
Leaks like these make it virtually impossible for us to strike deals with governments who really want to help us but need some cover in order to get away with it. How likely do you think it is that they’ll agree to something we promise to keep “out of the public eye” when they know for a fact that our laughably inept and non-existent self-discipline when it comes to keeping our mouths shut guarantee that it’ll be on the cover of the New York Times shortly thereafter?
Not very, is how much. Which makes our jobs harder, which gets people killed. Lots of people killed. Thanks, Julian Ass-muncher, you rapist sack of putrid vaginal discharge.
And the damage is the same no matter who is in the White House.
More importantly, politics end at the water’s edge, at least to me.
So how did this even happen? Just how did that anal polyp get a hold of all of that and, more importantly, how did it get published? We’ve known for a long time that he had it, after all.
Why is he still breathing? Why are the other people at WikiLeaks still among the living? Why hasn’t there been a string of horrible “accidents” among those swine that somehow convinced them that maybe deleting the whole cache of info would be a Truly Good Idea™ as opposed to going through with making it public?
“We. Don’t. Do. Th…”
Who the fuck asked you, Jazz? Don’t you have a ballet performance you need to be at or something?
Oh, and why is the fucking shitbird who gave Ass-mange the info still breathing? Just why in the fuck is that spy and traitor not currently busy decomposing at the end of a rope?
On the one hand you have a bunch of amoral vermin who chose to do something that they knew was wrong and dangerous, and on the other you have thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of truly innocent individuals who will die as a result of the first group’s actions.
Pardon me if my “humanitarian impulses” are on standby as regards the fates of the former group.
You see, to keep shit like this from happening, there are two steps one needs to consider. Actually only one if the first one is done correctly.
1) The classified information shouldn’t leak in the first place. I know I’ve said this before, but it remains a mystery why we are the only nation that can’t keep its mouth shut about classified material. Possibly it has to do with the fact that the only thing the “leakers” have to fear is that a lousy actor gets to play them in the movie deal they’ll be offered after they’ve been given a slap on the wrist.
Perhaps some more serious consequences for traitors might be in order? Pour encourager les autres. Again, considering the damage they’re doing, not to mention the sheer magnitude of their breach of trust, we really can’t find a single moral objection to such individuals being made to suffer all the torments the world has to offer, followed by them just ceasing to exist.
2) Once the leak has been made, but before the material is published, it just might be a good idea to be a bit more “proactive” about catching the horse and putting it back in the barn. People disappear all the time and, if you’re too squeamish to do that in order to save a few million lives, there are numerous quite effective ways of “encouraging” the ones in control of the material to maybe, I don’t know, burn it and take up philately as a hobby instead of high treason.
None of the above is particularly “nice”, but “nice”, if you ask me, was defenestrated quite spectacularly once I considered the consequences of doing what we’re currently doing, which is to say “nothing at all.”
Just a few thoughts.
Thatisall.
Tags: Imperial Thoughts, The Long War, Treason, Useless Swine | 
80 Comments »
Sire,
Trying to understand your meaning of defenestrated. Fenestrated is Latin for opening or window so I’m having trouble understanding your meaning of defenestrated in that sentence. Maybe the Grammar Czar can explain it to me.
As for Ass-flange I don’t know why the SAS or SEALS have not inquired of his safety lately. He might trip on a throw rug and suffer severe brain damage. Someone needs to do a safety check on him.
Library Czar said the following:
“Thrown out a window.” One of those obscure terms that I love to sprinkle around when the mood strikes me
I’ve been doing a slow burn about this all day….especially given that our vaunted Dept of Homeland Security is choosing to go after and shut down torrent sites and music download sites rather than pursue this piece of shit assange and shut HIM down.
One more thought here, since his pud of an informer….Bradley Manning…..has been arrested. Who is supplying these documents? perhaps that explains the reaction of the obama administration, a “sternly” worded letter to wikileaks…..
oh and would I love to defenestrate that traitor assange…..with a rope around his pencil neck
Response to Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery @:
He IS wanted for sexual assault after all. Perhaps someone could do the world a favor and remove him from the rolls of those of us who intake oxygen and exhale CO2.
On a different note – One can make a claim as a defense in a murder trial that the person had to die or thousands more would because of his actions. Let’s assume for a moment you walk outside one day and Bin Laden is there with a dirty bomb and he’s 30 seconds away from pressing the button. You have 29 seconds to shoot him dead. You shoot him dead, and I sincerely doubt – unless you’re brought up on charges by the Feds or in San Fran – that any DA would even file charges.
I have a slightly different take on things- basically, plug the leak at it’s source, with a lead stopper if needs be. The leaker in the system is a criminal and sure, a traitor. Assange can’t be a traitor because he isn’t American- he has sworn no oath of loyalty, and frankly I don’t mind the thought that some people are dedicated to outing what they think needs to be outed. I’ve spent some eight years living in the PRC, and I DO NOT approve of muzzling journalists- if you want to keep something secret, don’t let it out. Having a culture of aggressive journos who will publish what they come across is good- whether you like the specifics of what they publish or not. I have seen the flip side, and believe me- you don’t want that.
The key is to control what they have access to- and again, at the risk of getting flamed, the US is piss-poor at controlling its information. Plug the leaks, and when you have control over that, use this guy for disinformation. Remember, he’ll publish anything- and that could be very, very useful.
Once again- if he has something to publish, that isn’t his fault, it’s his responsibility. The fault lies in the leaker, and the system that let the leak out. If he was leaking PRC cables you’d not be so upset- and I cannot support calling for his death for publishing ANYTHING, even in hyperbole. Too many reporters die because some people think that only their news should be published.
Seagoon
He may not be American but I understand he is Australian so the SAS should be able to take care of him.
seagoon said the following:
Take care of the first point, and the second becomes moot, as I said.
seagoon said the following:
No flame from me, that’s for sure. It never ceases to amaze me. In this country, the easiest way to make sure that the entire world knows anything by the same time next day is to stamp it “classified.” It’ll be in the Tehran Times in ten minutes if you stamp it “top secret.” There is absolutely NO intel discipline worth talking about and, as I said in the above, no consequences worth speaking of if you don’t keep your mouth shut.
Now, on to Ass-munge, I do understand your reluctance to treating journalists (not that he’s one) like they do in China. That being said, there has to be limits to what you can allow. We’re not talking about somebody leaking that Harry Reid likes to get off licking the balls of poodles in his office here.
What if some enterprising “journalist” made off with a complete rundown of our nuclear capabilities and launch procedures? I mean, I really don’t care if he sees it as his “job” or “mission” to disseminate each and every bit of information he lays his paws on, no matter what the consequences, he’s going down and going down hard.
Unless he can be made to see the error of his ways and hand the info back without passing it on, of course.
If a “journalist” had gotten a hold of all of the convoy schedules back in ’42, should we allow him to post them in the Frankfurter Allgemeine?
I’m all in favor of the public interest and protections of journalists, but you have to draw a line somewhere.
seagoon said the following:
Oh, forgot to comment on this one. I’d be ecstatic, obviously. But that doesn’t involve a double standard, because I’d still consider the PRC a bunch of morons if they did nothing to try to stop him.
“The enemy loves the betrayal, but despises the traitor.”
How easily he could have been a hero,, if he’d posted the taliban’s books first.
LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech said the following:
Ah, but he is a hero now. To the Taliban and al-Qaeda who will get years of propaganda material out of this.
According to Ace & Co., Bradley Manning, the Gay Avenger, is a homosexual with a particularly lurid life. Apparently someone scolded him, or something, and now he has a real hardon for the US. (In a very bad way.)
He should be hanged for treason, and Assange should be wasted, forthwith; their servers should be fired up and burnt to a crisp.
Then we can start on their co-conspirators in the “media.” Aiding and abetting treason? Hanging offense.
Tallulah said the following:
Jaybear and I discussed this on Facebook. Instead of being hanged, he’ll very likely be given a top-level position in the Obama administration.
Wikileaks Documents Show Turkey Helped Al-Qaeda (AP-Jerusalem Post)
Wikileaks is planning to release files that show Turkey has helped al-Qaeda in Iraq, according to the London-based daily Al-Hayat.
One of the documents, a U.S. military report, charges Turkey with failing to control its borders, because Iraqi citizens residing in Turkey provided al-Qaeda with supplies to build bombs, guns and ammunition.
And Turkey is a member of NATO. Is there a connection here?
U.S. Warns Israel of WikiLeaks Release of Classified Cables – Barak Ravid
(Ha’aretz)
The U.S. has informed Israel’s Foreign Ministry that the whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks was planning on releasing hundreds of thousands of American diplomatic cables, some of which might deal with Israel-America relations.
The cables involve internal correspondence between American diplomats that do not always reflect the official position of the U.S.
The Americans said that if there was embarrassment, it was important for Israel to know that this was not their intention.
The U.S. State Department also approached several other countries to warn them of the release of the classified cables.
Oh yeah, when we said you were a bunch of annoying yids that Hitler didn’t get to, it was just a joke. Internally.
Who had the motive and the means to disseminate these leaks? It’s all designed to make Obama look like the novice that he is. Strangely, so far, Hillary is coming up roses. Where is she? Why hasn’t the Bam-ster called for her resignation? The 2012 election season has begun, could Hillary be looking for a way out of this administration?
OT- They found that nuclear material Fed-Ex lost in Knoxville- what the hell is Fed-Ex doing shipping that shit after the recent attack on cargo planes? You would think that if Homeland Security was really interested in our security they would no t allow such shipments until such time as the cargo can be inspected- but DHS isn’t really about security, now is it?
Mopester,
If DHS spent a fraction of the time on securing our borders as they do on irradiating and groping American citizens, I might…might…be inclined to see them in a more favorable light.
Until then…
In total agreement with His Rottieness on basically ignoring the Asswhang Wikiwanker (Hezbollah/Syrian/Iranian hit in..3…2…1…). So far, nothing I’ve seen from this oh so scary, damaging and oh nos inducing dump is anything revelatory. Did we not already know that it was standard practice for pisslamists of all stripes to use ambulances to run terrorists and munitions? News flash–the UN is a cesspool of stupid and ineffectual espionage, more designed to transmit STDs than intel–yawn. Does it really damage our ability to “work” with other nations? Do we give a fuck if nations want “cover” to help us?
Maybe that’s the real import of this thing–the revelation or better put, rediscovery that the American people are entitled to know virtually everything that their gummint is doing and that if you have to hide something in the dark, it’s probably because it’s forkin’ wrong. I mean really–do we need to hide the fact that we’ve gone into Yemen to smash some murdering, terrorist enemies to bits? Sure, keep it secret until it’s done, but afterward, hey, start the party! I dunno? Should we have kept D-day secret for a couple of years, so as to avoid disturbing the tender sensibilities of Vichy? To give the French resistance cover? Absolutely not. Those who help us in such times are heroes and true allies to be celebrated. Those who will only help by skulking around and hiding their alliance behind vitriolic jihadist crap and backstabbing political and financial maneuvering (aka, every pislamic so-called nation, with the barely tolerable exception of Jordan) are not true allies, but enemies engaged in longer-term anti-U.S. strategies. Fork them.
On the other hand, those who “leak” material rightly or wrongly designated as secret are traitors and saboteurs and need to get the full treatment as such. This nation has grown far too liberal in that regard. There was really no question that much of what was passed off as “dissent” during Viet Nam and since was truly treason and should have been prosecuted. There is a certain senator who won’t pay property taxes on his boat who fits right into that niche. The stupid failure of the Shrub Admin. to clean house of all Clintonistas at every possible level and actively to pursue and prosecute all the f-head leakers during Shrub’s tenure was the groundwork for current events. Course, having <0 and Shrillary reap the rewards/whirlwind is must a little poetic justice. Nonetheless, the lesson is: Hey, U.S. gummint! Cajones! Get some! Prosecute treason! And all those other so-called nations? You're either with us or against us. Figure it out and quick.
Just 805 words.
How much of this stuff is real, and how much of it is disinformation? I mean, we assume that it is all real, going back all the way to 1966, but is it?
.Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery said the following:
Wikileaks is not being served by one server, at any given time it is running on literally thousands of servers worldwide. For all you know, it could be using your computer as we speak.
LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech said the following:
Do you know how hard it is to post finger-paintings done on a stone media?
L.C. Mope said the following:
How many people in the State Department are left over from the previous administration? I mean, you could speculate any scenario you want, if you try.
Well, it is a bit odd how the leaks are all US, especially from an organization that prides itself on “openness for all”. Why not leak Russia’s or China’s stuff? Is he afraid those countries actually will try to exterminate him?
You know what would be an intersting document for wikileaks? One that is filled Assanges name, of bunch of digital blackout lines, and the phrases “national security threat”, “enemy of the state”, “standing kill order”, and “priority” strategically placed throughout. I personally know of some marines who won’t be walking anytime soon because the taiban “just happened” to figure out that there unit was low on the batteries that power the man portable ECMs that stop radio contolled IEDs, and that said ECMs were being worn just to make anyone observing think that they were active. This also just happned to be around the time the big Afghanistan document leak occured.
You know, if the leakers had been giving the info to Russia or China directly, they would be in jail a long time.
But leak to the entire world? Nothing.
0352crumb crunch said the following:
Holy F’n Shit! Now where is the media on this? They would have us believe it’s just 1s and 0s, bs documents getting “leaked,” with little if any actual impact. But it’s heroes’ blood getting spilled. That makes mine boil. If wikileaks doesn’t go down and hard sooner than immediately, the next U.S. admin should have its traitor executin’ apparatus booked for the entire 4 year term disposing of scum who would rather heroes be maimed or dead than just do their F’n jobs.
Here’s two leaks that I found particularly interesting…
jugears doesn’t understand the Middle East.
jugears sold out Poland and Czechoslovakia and got bupkis in return.
I guess they don’t make Harvard graduates like they used to.
Personally I think that the US government should consider outsourcing its sensitive document control to the Russians and/or the Chinese. No more problem…
0007 said the following:
or giving the classified stuff to Harvard Law School…..after all, they’ve done a pretty good job of keeping obamas school records hidden.
Library Czar said the following:
Defenestration was the ultimate fate of Jezebel…
LC Sir Intellectual Conservative 5th Columnist said the following:
Charges?!?
I’d be jumping for joy over the $25 million payday I just earned (or wherever the reward currently stands).
#1 Library Czar
His Majesty is, amongst his other regal attributes, a historian.
http://www.pipeline.com/~cwa/Bohemian_Phase.htm
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An
Response to LC Getalis, Imperial Czar of Pharmacology @:
Yes, and if I remember my history correctly, the Defenestration of Prague was one of the events in the lead-up to the Thirty Years’ War (1619-1649), which led to the development of the modern nation-state system. Two Catholic Hapsburg officials and one of their secretaries (male) were flung out high windows of Hradschin Castle by an enraged Protestant mob; all three survived, their falls cushioned by a manure pile. Tossing the leaker of the latest tranche of documents into a manure pile wouldn’t be such a bad idea…as long as you tried it from 20,000 feet.
DJ Allyn, ITW said the following:
Come on, I thought you knew me. For me, 805 words doesn’t even qualify as a frickin’ POST-IT™!
Maybe it’d take a TW, but I’d like to think someone could attack Leakyweeks & make it look like a Chicom cyberplot.
OK, a few facts not in media evidence here.
PFC Bradley Manning is the person who gave a hacker hundreds of thousands of classified documents. Manning apparently was suspected to be gay in his unit and got into a fight because of it. The command gave him non-judicial punishment for fighting, which apparently pissed Manning off. Additionally being one of those assnuggets who’s a sucker for a lost cause, Manning decided to stick it to the Army. From what I gather, this is also the Army’s fault for ignoring its own security protocols. Manning brought CDs into a SCIF and pretended to be listening to music even as he stuck them into a SIPR computer and downloaded thousands of documents. BIG no-no! There are supposed to be no outside media in a SCIF. That protocol was ignored. There were other violations as well.
The hacker to whom Manning gave the files proceeded to hand them over to Assmange. Assmange is not an American citizen, so he can’t be considered a traitor. I’m not sure of the legal loopholes here, but apparently what he did by publishing these documents was somehow legal. We knew he had them, and we’ve been examining each individual one for weeks to see what the damage would be. But as far as I know, there was nothing we could do to stop this latest document dump.
Extend that to the other so called intelligence agencies and you can see why this kind of crap has been going on for years. It really made big impacts from about 2001 on. There have been several leaks and classified documents missing and no one has had to feel any real consequences for their actions. The NYT and WaPo have gone out of their way to publish questionable information to embarrass the Boooooosh administration. This has happened with impunity. I served in the AF from 1966 to 1977 and worked in aerospace for 20+ years on secret and top secret program for the Navy and AF. In all that time it never occurred to or anyone else to divulge any information about what I was working on. There was security checks at all entrances and exits and if you brought anything in or took anything out, it was physically inspected. There were also secured vaults that you could not bring anything into or leave with anything, everything you needed to your job was contained inside the vault.
This security breach is really inexcusable and should cost several people their jobs and careers. An example needs to be made from this incident so future ‘leakers’ may hesitate, or security is bolstered such that leaks don’t happen. Shit happens for a reason. In this case, lax security and a punk opportunist has done the deed. Now its time to dole out the consequences for the actions.
Response to LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch @:
Even more basic, why was the CD-ROM drive not disabled? Need to look at something on a CD? Fine, use a stand-alone computer that’s not hooked up to any network. Why were the USB ports also not disabled (I’m assuming here, but it seems likely to me). Why was anyone other than a systems administrator with proper authorization able to download data onto removable media? These are basic security measures that I’ve seen in the private sector for handling proprietary data. Surely Uncle can do at least as well for handling classified national security information? Yes? Anyone? Bueller?
americanexpat said the following:
Mostly because there ARE legitimate uses for the drives. Authorized personnel do airgap from one system to another, and especially downrange, it’s convenient to use CDs and flash drives to do it. There are other issues involved where security regulations were ignored or glossed over, though.
DarkStar said the following:
I agree with you. The fact that a PFC can go in and make copies of classified information while pretending to listen to Lady Gaga just goes to show that our security protocols have more holes in it than a Greyhound Bus station men’s room in San Fransisco.
Response to americanexpat @ 34:
Why did a PFC have access to this level of information? Why wasn’t there an alarm triggered for making copies?
There are a LOT of questions as to how a PFC knew exactly where to go and what to get, how to get it, and then exactly who to pass it off to — all without ever setting off any bells or whistles. It just seems way too pat for me.
LC Gunsniper said the following:
Yes they do, and putting them in charge is a big part of the problem.
The US would enjoy 50-100 years of instant prosperity if that school and every one of its graduates vanished from the Earth tomorrow.
Teufelhunden_JD said the following:
I was thinking the same thing if the Rapture were to happen today.
DJ Allyn, ITW said the following:
Sorry, guys wrong. Manning was a certified 96B, which is an Army Intelligence Analyst. In order to become one, a Soldier spends about 5 months at Ft. Huachuca going through the intel course. There’s no rank or age requirement to become a 96B, but they do go through the same clearance process as civilians do, that is to say they have to undergo an SSBI and all the other garbage that goes along with getting a TS clearance. To have access to SIPRnet, one only need to have a SECRET level clearance anyway, so there was no reason in the world why Manning – a PFC – would NOT have access to that system.
Of all the documents I examined, I didn’t see a single one that was classified higher than SECRET//NOFORN. No protocols were violated in issuing Manning his clearance, or access to classified systems. It’s not a matter of his age or rank. We have plenty of young, intelligent Soldiers who serve as 96Bs every day who DON’T betray their country.
DJ Allyn, ITW said the following:
You obviously think you’re being clever, but it;s obvious that you don’t understand Revelation or what’s to come after the Rapture. Instant prosperity? When the Rapture does happen, you will see the shtf like never before.
I don’t know why Obama and Clinton are so worried about this. Didn’t Zero promise us transparency? This is about as transparent as it gets. Bush has got to be thanking his lucky stars right now. Were HE at the helm, he’d be crucified. It will be interesting to see how the lefties try to spin this into a “blame Bush” moment.
Grammar Czar said the following:
Clever? Sure. It goes right along with that prayer, “God, save me from your followers”.
Grammar Czar said the following:
So far, I don’t see any real downside to these documents. Sunshine is the best disinfectant. We also get to see stuff that the government has been hiding from us for years.
Response to DJ Allyn, ITW @:
Strongly disagree. Sorry. These are private communications between State Department officials. Some of them contain derogatory statements about our allies. Yes, even our allies. If government officials can’t be truthful with one another, with whom CAN they be truthful? I certainly don’t expect that degree of truthiness from them toward the general public! However, this kind of candor compromises our relationships with our allies, compromises our intelligence sharing, and our sources. It does nothing to promote future government transparency, but will merely create yet another bureaucracy devoted specifically to examining leaks such as this! Don’t believe me? It’s already being discussed.
Response to LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch @:
In order to have access to classified information, whether it be confidential, secret, top secret or what ever, you must FIRST have the clearance to that level AND you must have A NEED TO KNOW the information. The fact that this guy just took information helter-skelter and COPIED it and removed it from the workplace is a definite indication that the security procedures were either not followed or not in place to preclude unauthorized disclosure.
Manning should be regarded a potential spy and investigated as such. His superiors should also be investigated for lax security procedures or complicit in the breach. This is clearly a breach of security and has the potential to be a lot worse because only a small fraction of the information stolen and divulged by Manning has been disclosed. We don’t know, at this point, the depth of the breach.
LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch said the following:
The Bamster has already damaged relationships with our allies. This may be the final straw.
LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch, DJ Allyn, ITW, et. al.
Actually, the damage done has absolutely nothing to do with the actual content of the diplomatic correspondence. I have discussed it with others, and I am taking the liberty of putting in a segment of that discussion:
As far as the question of who is left over at State:
The presidential appointment power extends down far below the Cabinet heads. That is the reason that the “Plum Book” ["The United States Government Policy and Supporting Positions"] is so thick. There are hordes of Deputy, Vice, Sub, Assistant, etc. Secretaries that are not civil service but are appointed and serve at the pleasure of the President. One of the things the both Bushes were criticized for from our side of the aisle; was their assumption that a Democrat in a position of power would work for the nation and not his party. The waves of leaks from the Executive Branch that had to have come from those levels, during both administrations, proved them wrong. They pretty much left their predecessor’s appointments below the top couple of levels intact. Many of those positions have been held by Democrat appointees since 1992, other than attrition from 2001-2008. And it is noted that “W” did not get the last of the appointments that he made upon inauguration confirmed until early 2002; because the Democrats in the Senate deliberately slowed down the process until their hand was forced by 9/11.
After the last two years, we still have allies, shared intelligence, and sources???!!??
Yeah, I know Nikki. But as I said, after the last two years we probably are already only getting a fraction of what we got before.
Grammar Czar:
Grammar Czar, I am not of the Judeo-Christian persuasion, so I will easily defer to your knowledge of Revelation. But I think that you may be missing something. The End Times described after the Rapture are looked upon with justifiable fear and horror by Christians. However, for Leftists, it may well match up closely with their ideal of an Earthly Paradise, with them in charge. It is all a matter of perspective.
As far as the relevancy of Harvard to our prosperity over the last generation or so, I equate it with the similar relationship between the Academy of Social Sciences Attached to the CPSU Central Committee and the former USSR.
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An
Crap! I failed to close the BOLD html tag after Grammar Czar’s name in #45. As I mentioned in an earlier post’s comment; I don’t have the text formatting bar [or the edit button] anymore. Sorry about that.
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An
DarkStar said the following:
Manning needs to be prosecuted as a traitor. I don’t know about spy. Every reliable source I know told me he was a little shitbag with a love for the underdog (which means a visceral hatred of the superpower) and whose petty widdle feewings were hurt after he got into a fight, presumably for being ridiculed for being gay and given an Article 15. I doubt he was a spy, however.
Additionally, as an Intel Analyst downrange, he had the need to know. It’s not like he was an admin specialist who had no business looking at classified cables. His job assumed a need to know.
What DOES need to be investigated is the breach of OPSEC that occurred when he was allowed to waltz into a SCIF with recordable media, and no one said a word.
Response to LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An @:
Sorry, but no. Neither the Russians nor the Chinese, nor anyone else who cyberspies on us has gained access to SIPRnet. It’s not encrypted on the Internet. It’s a completely other system. It’s not a cypher. It’s got nothing to do with the web.
Surprisingly no. Especially among the more socialist of the bunch, such as Spain, Italy, Greece, etc., the leadership still worships at the knees of Obunghole.
Nikki
!!!??!!!
OK, I am not privy to what goes on at FT. Huachuca or the activities of its graduates. Mind you, I know a couple of graduates, but if they told me anything, they’d have to kill me. Which very much is as it should be.
However, in my professional and security-cleared wanderings around the fringes of various strategic shit in the past, I learned of a thing called the Personnel Reliability Program that closely monitored those with access to critical matters. If you were a Minuteman or Peacekeeper Combat Crewman, or involved in the maintenance thereof; and your dog was hit by a car, you were downchecked from access to anything until the Pshrinks decided that you were emotionally and mentally stable after the trauma. The Navy had a similar program.
There are a bunch of tripwires that got kicked pretty thoroughly here. Hell, for a job I worked at once, I had to get a lowly Secret clearance from DoD for myself just to go to the receptionist’s desk and drop off reports. I [and much of the company] got investigated to a fair thee well, and I was one of the few that got cleared. The above would have kept me the hell out of even going to that receptionist office. Is anyone minding the friggin’ store???
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An said the following:
Dude, much has changed! Don’t you remember the Embassy in Iraq having some kind of gay pride day a couple of years ago?? LMAO! Being gay is no longer precludes one from getting a clearance. Besides, I’m not sure he was out of the closet, and as long as he didn’t ask and didn’t tell… *shrug* While the Manning being gay part is RUMINT, it comes from a VERY reliable source, and I have zero doubt in this source’s assessment.
Response to LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch @:
I grant much has changed. However, what I was thinking was the fighting, emotional instability, and Article 15 not triggering a security review and observation. Being gay damn near gives you points towards promotion anymore.
Moving back to something you said earlier:
I may well be wrong, but I was under the impression that what he downloaded off of was an archive of what had been sent by other means, and thus would have been subject to interception when originally transmitted. No problem, by the way, with treason charges, or at very least him being sent where they pipe him sunlight every other decade if they happen to remember. Or a real Oubliette.
LC. Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An said the following:
An Article 15 will not prevent you from keeping your clearance, as long as you’re truthful about it in your investigation or renewal. It’s non-judicial punishment that is meant as a disciplinary measure – usually done and forgotten about. My old CSM used to say that if you haven’t had at least one Article 15 while in the Army, there’s something wrong.
Shit, I honestly can’t remember if I’m allowed to give you details of where he got the info, so I’m going to err on the side of caution. I’ll just tell you this: the stuff he got was off SIPR. I’m not sure what you mean by “archive.” If you mean an inactive database on the system, that’s incorrect.
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An said the following:
IIRC, it’s only temporary. I don’t want to be around to face a pissed-off God.
Nikki
Don’t want to know, if there is any question at all. I will make the working assumption [with the appropriate caveat about "assume"] that an inactive database/archive involves the data coming from somewhere else to be stored. If it involved the State Department, it either was brought for storage/later retrieval from elsewhere [State's own records of their cables] or it automatically copied to the archive. In any case, the act of transmission to the intended recipient [and possible interception by someone deliberately working to do so] is a separate matter than the release of the texts by our collection of TWANLOC. Based on that working assumption, I will “assume” subject to disproof, that the plain text escaping still involves the risk I mentioned if the encrypted versions were intercepted independently by the enemy.
And given our own rather strenuous activities in that field, matched by the Russians and Chinese, the only safe postulate is that anything transmitted or via cable has been intercepted. I emphasize the insecurity of hard-wire transmission too. And especially when the State Department is involved. They congenitally believe that anyone from outside our borders [except Israel] always tells us the truth, and always is looking out for our interests.
So when do we get to draw and quarter all concerned?
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An
Response to LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An @:
The Russians and Chinese and others try, but generally our classified systems are pretty secure. We isolate them fairly quickly.
I haven’t accessed anything like an inactive archive like you describe. When I was examining the first batch of documents released, the tech weenies put all the records he released into a database, just so we didn’t have to search through every single document in the system, but we just use the normal, live system when doing our jobs. I haven’t seen any database such as the one you describe on our systems.
Nikki
Ah, the inactive database you referred to was something that was put together recently. That , in part explains my misapprehension. I have seen reports, not confirmed, that some of the data he released goes back to about 1966. That would by its nature imply an archive of some sort that he got it off of. If in fact, he was rummaging through the active system though, that has other implications. First, how did he know what to rummage through to get that specific data? There is an implication that he was coached as to what to go for. Which implies one or more coaches.
Second, one would assume that in addition to his normal workload that would show up as activity from his log-in, there should have been one hell of a spike in his computer activity. Long ago when the world was new, and computer systems were primitive; I worked in the world of corporate security. Even back then, we could track the physical movements of our people via computer. I once caught a mole who had been inserted into my crew to commit corporate espionage against one of our clients, solely by computer. I assume [yeah, that word again] that systems are more sophisticated in such matters today and can easily track movements on the computer. In fact I know of corporate systems that do that.
Further assumption. As a matter of SOP the Counter-Intel types are tracking his every contact, if only to find out who told him what to look for, and who may have compromised any monitoring software that may have been watching him as he collected the cables. sigh
Going back to the beginning though. The original diplomatic cables going back however far may have been intercepted by the opposition. We know they try. I will not go into more details, because we are approaching means and methods. IF they were collected, they were archived in their encrypted form without doubt. Now they have the plain texts to work from to crack the system by computer brute force. Even if we have changed the encryption systems, the old stuff is there to give them hints as to our crypto methods. If it had not embarrassed “Teh Won”, I am sure that the regime would have blown off the release like they did previously. Now they are paying minimal attention to it in PR damage control mode. Should be looking for people to introduce to the climactic scene in BRAVEHEART.
If you are in any way involved with the system, I wish you and your people good luck, good hunting, and if you are counting coup, don’t use scalps or ears as there are more personal body parts.
LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An
Response to LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch @:
Agreed, there are legitimate uses for a CD-ROM drive. But does the computer using it have to be one on the network? I’ve been in SCIFs that had stand-alone computers for exactly that purpose–to view CDs safely. SysAdmin virus-scans it, puts it into the stand-alone machine. You view what’s on the CD. You finish, CD is either destroyed or does not leave the SCIF. Any potential damage is thus contained. I’ve been in more than one TOC in my life, and I understand how things might be a little austere and makeshift downrange. Been there, done that. But there has to be a balance between convenience and security. I’d argue convenience won out in this case, and we’re now reaping the harvest.
Response to americanexpat @:
I haven’t been to their SCIF, so it’s hard to say. Normally the media isn’t supposed to leave the SCIF for anything but official reasons. The copying is done for the sole purpose of airgapping, and if that’s the case, then yes, it needs to be on the network. If it does leave, it’s supposed to be double wrapped and in a secure pouch. I’m at a loss how this douche came in there, popped in a CD, said it was just music he was listening to while he worked, and no one said anything.
Hell, we’re not supposed to have anything of the sort where I work, and you can be damn sure that if someone sat around dancing to a tune on an iPod or any other device, they’d be reported toute suite.
My educated guess is that apathy set in, and he was allowed to get away with shit.
Response to DJ Allyn, ITW @:
Wasn’t me that asked about a PFC having access to sensitive data, Deej. I’ve been in places where PFCs (and their Navy and Air Force equivalents) literally held the “keys to the kingdom” in terms of what types of material they could legitimately access. That access came with the job, not the rank. If you hold the MOS and the clearance (often the biggest bottleneck was the background investigation), you can hold the billet and thus have access to the information. Rank is often a minor consideration for non-supervisory positions.
Response to LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An @:
Yes, they created this file especially for us, so that we wouldn’t have even MORE to dig through. And even the older records he grabbed are in the system now. He just grabbed all he could, which explains why the majority of the shit we went through was nothing more than SIGACTS and initial reporting type stuff.
Only thing I can say is that yes, they’re more sophisticated.
Well, he’s in jail right now, so his contacts are pretty limited. But we have certain info we need.
The older cables – before the advent of the classified computer systems we have today – I’d be willing to bet they were probably at some point read by the enemy. The particular database he accessed, however…. nah. And we really didn’t blow off the release per se… we were on it before this shit was released. At least the IC was.
LOL I’ve spent the last four months of my life dealing with this shit. Let’s just say, I want blood.
americanexpat said the following:
This.
LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch said the following:
There must be something wrong with me, then, since I have never once had an Article 15 . I have been doing everything I can to stay out of trouble, and have succeeded, so far.
Y’all should pay attention to my sestrichka, because she actually knows a thing or two and certainly far more than I and most of anybody in here do about how things are done.
You’re right sestrichka, of course, that there is little if anything we can legally do about Assmange. Obviously, he can’t be a “traitor” in a legal sense as he is not a citizen and thus not bound by any oath of ours. He can fall under the Espionage Act, but even that is tricky since he wasn’t actually the one doing the spying. He just passed on information that the real traitor and spy, Pvt Manning, passed on to him.
That being said, I still stand by what I said about there being ways that his information could’ve been stopped from being disseminated. Perhaps not the first burst, but certainly any subsequent ones. Such as the FSB’s alleged sudden interest in him which, alas, comes a bit late in the game but yeah, I’m wondering about that too *wink*.
Now as to all the other stuff, here are my devalued Imperial Sestertii:
1) It is wrong to say that there is something systemically wrong about our intel community’s security procedures. Manning was cleared, and perhaps he wasn’t vetted enough, but he was still cleared. Furthermore, from what I understand, his clearance was only to a level that you simply have to have in order to be able to work inside the system at all, so there is no reason to say that he had access to stuff he “wasn’t supposed to have access to.”
Maybe our security classifications should be more complicated with more levels, but I have to warn about that too. The more complex you make a system, the less likely you make it that relevant information gets to the right destination in a timely manner. We all rightfully gripe about the “wall” erected by the likes of Gore-licker and her ilk prior to 9/11 and how it hampered our intel sharing.
Intel comes with an expiration date, and having to fight weeks’ worth of red tape and ‘sensible’ procedures to pass on intel that is needed days from now is no different from not having it in the first place, unless you’re in the business of writing history books.
The one thing here that needs addressing, as Nikki points out so very correctly, is how in the name of Ba’al’s left testicle Manning was allowed to waltz in and out of there with portable data media without anybody bothering to check his justification for doing so and checking what he left with. THAT’S something to address and THERE’S where the fuckup lies. Several people should lose a great deal more than their jobs over that.
2) And that goes with the apathy that is most likely the cause of the last paragraph of the above is, once again, why in the name of all that’s holy can’t we, as a nation, keep secrets? Why can a fuckup like Manning even get to the point where he thinks that betraying his nation like he did is “reasonable” or “just payback” without as much as a thought about the consequences? And I’m not just talking about him either. Where and how do outfits like the New York Slimes get their sources and why do those sources not think twice about doing what they do?
That answer, to me at least, is simple: The utter lack of deterring consequences.
You may think, from your couch at home, that being locked up for a while and facing a court martial should do it, but when the most likely outcome of that, in the long run, is a pardon down the line on humanitarian grounds along with star status in the media and a guaranteed book and movie deal… Yeah right. Where I come from, the wages of treason like that, which is the title of the post, are that you become a non-entity. Your life as you know it is finished. You will never work again for anybody. You will find that you are scrutinized and watched at every turn for the rest of your life and nobody with the sense that G-d gave geese will ever want to be caught dead near you because that will guarantee that your newly acquired cooties will be transferred to them.
Personally, I’d prefer a firing squad and I’d consider it more humane and appropriate. At least with a firing squad you only get to die once as opposed to dying every day for the rest of your miserable, worthless and joyless existence.
My point being: You can’t prevent assholes from sneaking under the radar into your system, there will always be potential traitors and spies, but you CAN make it so those potential shitheads will think not just twice about following through on their urges.
And we’re doing nothing even close to that. As long as we keep treating traitors as celebrities, we’ll have a never-ending supply of them.
LC LittleRott84 Imperial DJ said the following:
I was in the Army for 7 years before I got my first (and only) one. I did everything I could to stay out of trouble, but sometimes trouble just finds you! LOL Don’t sweat the small stuff. If you haven’t gotten one, that is and should be a source of pride.
Response to Emperor Misha I @:
My awesome thanks to moy bratets for putting it so succinctly. I’m often convinced that we hand out clearances way too easily. Yes, it requires a background investigation, and yes they do investigate, but in my humble opinion if you have something in your background that could compromise you, the clearance should not be issued.
I don’t think being gay is a big deal, truthfully. If you’re not in the closet, they can’t blackmail you by threatening to reveal your sexual proclivities. However, I do think mental problems such as prolonged depression, bipolar disorder, nervous breakdowns, etc. should be disqualifiers. Same with financial issues and prior drug use. As it stands now, as long as you admit it in your investigation, it’s not an issue. We get reinvestigated every 5 years for folks with TS clearances. I think a periodic recheck every year, even if it’s not a full SSBI, but at least a credit check and a mental health check of some sort would be ideal.
I actually think classifications are just fine. I’m a classifying authority, as is anyone who works in my office. I decide what classification to stick on my documents, based on the info it contains and cleared with a foreign disclosure officer, of course. The classifications are compartmentalized enough that old intel is not a problem. Generally, it’s the layers of bureaucracy that get me!
When I was deployed a couple of years ago, I remember how conscious we were at first about security protocols. After a few months without incidents, you just get lax. I think this was the case here. I think that Manning was able to sashay in and out of that SCIF because of complacency. He sat around bee-bopping to alleged “music” as he copied our nation’s secrets. That immediately should have tipped a supervisor off! “Why does he have music in a SCIF? We’re not allowed to have those things in a SCIF!” But they became complacent. “Aw, the kid works nights. There’s nothing going on. Give him at least some entertainment.”
Of course, at this point it’s just my conjecture. I’m told there were other screw-ups in the investigation as well, although I can’t give more details, but I believe it.
I do think we make it too easy. Treason is very hard to prove. There has to be specific intent to betray one’s country, and that’s nearly impossible to prove in court. I don’t know what the solution is except to make public humiliation, a lot of jail time and a complete lack of any opportunities as part of the punishment. And if Manning ever wants to publish his fucking memoirs, make it illegal for him to ever see a fucking dime of profit. Let him die destitute, embarrassed and pathetic.
Emperor Misha I said the following:
Quick! Someone call the TSA and tell them they’ve installed those machines in the wrong place!
Response to DJ Allyn, ITW @:
It doesn’t have to be that difficult. If someone is jamming out to a tune on a CD in a SCIF, that’s a pretty clear indication that they have recordable media in the SCIF. No need for an anal probe.
LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch said the following:
It was a joke.
There is an easy way to stop this. Remove all devices that are capable of recording. Install monitoring system that records all keystrokes, actions, etc that is independently monitored outside of that particular secured area. If something needs to be recorded or transferred, then that equipment could then be brought in to the secured area for just that purpose and monitored during its operation.
Response to DJ Allyn, ITW @:
I know it was a joke. My only point was that there don’t have to be that many changes. They simply needed to follow the protocols already in place.
LC Nicki the Resident Misanthropic Bitch said the following:
And come down hard on those who ignore the protocols.
Response to LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An @:
Three hundred andd thirty years later, this was followed by the Second Defenestration of Prague on March 10, 1948 When Jan Masaryk, Foreign Minister of Czechosolvakia plunged from his office window to his death, supposedly a suicide, but curiously two weeks after the coup which brought the Communists to power. The windows in Prague are very tricky, and one should stay well away frrom them.
Manning is a traitor and should be punished accordingly.
He has blood on his hands.
DJ Allyn, ITW said the following:
BINGO!
As far as ASSange goes, all he has done is publish what was given him by others, such as the odious Manning. In essence, that differs, perhaps in quantity but not in quality, from what was regularly done with impunity by the Sulzberger gang at the NYT, Ben Bradlee of the WaPo Wiper, and various Broadcast buffoons, all of whom should owe more loyalty to us than ASSange. Our first priority ought to be to bring belated justice to those traitors, and then it will be time to settle up with the Aussie Arsehole. My investment advice, buy stock in a rope factory.
Lady H said the following:
Whose?
Response to LC Sir Rurik, K.o.E. @ 72:
Ah yes, shoot the messenger.
What I find interesting is that while people wax on about how much of a breach this is, nobody here is even paying attention to what these dumps actually show. Perhaps you don’t really want to know because it might burst your bubbles of preconceived notions, but personally, I find them very interesting.
So far I have yet to find anything really all that damaging except to those who have tried to convince us otherwise…
Response to DJ Allyn, ITW @:
Absolutely. Not just the messenger, but him as well if he is complicit, or encouraged and subsidised the deed.
Response to DJ Allyn, ITW @:
The blood of those who were revealed to have helped ISAF in Afghanistan – and maybe their families too. In early August it was “only” three. There have been more since then.
Considering I’ve been pouring over individual records since August, and have personally examined thousands of them, I know exactly what they contain.
Names and locations of Afghans who have helped the coalition
TTPs and SOPs
Radio frequencies
Military plans and ops
Descriptions of special forces operations
This latest tranche…
Sometimes snarky criticism of our allies by State Department personnel that was supposed to be private communications.
In a couple of cases (at least the ones I’ve personally examined), operational plans.
Descriptions of sources that have revealed information to ROs and attaches sometimes in contravention of their leadership.
This compromises intelligence sharing relationships, liaisons with sources and ultimately, relationships between allies. Many of them publicly claim their relationship with the US won’t be affected, but what is claimed publicly and what happens in private are two different things.
And by the way, if you think the Taliban, al Q’aida, Lashkar y Tayyiba and any number of other terrorist cockmunchers don’t know how to exploit these documents to the maximum in order to harm the US, you’re sadly mistaken. Stuff that seems perfectly innocuous to us can provide a treasure trove of information to our enemy. Of course, that doesn’t matter, because it’s an interesting and neato look into how State Department operates!
Yawn.
The Taliban has already said they were going to target individuals named as helping us in Afghanistan, Dave, via Wikileaks.
Does that help?
The Taliban needed an excuse?
DJ Allyn, ITW said the following:
No, but they got a TOOL to help them target those individuals.
Response to DJ Allyn, ITW @:
Those helping us have been OUTED.
Get it now?
Sheesh dude, I like ya, but you’re being dense!