...2009 Archives...

Old news, we know, but we couldn’t very well let this one pass by now that we finally have a moment (h/t LC readerjp)

On Wednesday, freedom of speech in Europe took a new and devastating turn, as a Dutch appellate court ordered the prosecution of Geert Wilders, parliamentarian and filmmaker, charging him with “inciting hatred and discrimination” against Muslims for his film exposing the threat of radical Islam.

This ruling comes a mere six months after the public prosecutor’s office found Wilders’ dialogue contributed to the debate on Islam and that he had not committed any criminal offense.

Business as usual in a socialist country. Words mean things and decisions are final… Until they aren’t anymore.

Now, curiously, the court has done an about-face and decreed that charges may be brought against the politician, and that prosecuting him is somehow in “the public interest.”

Only if “the public interest” includes pissing on your own laws, bending over forwards and grabbing your ankles in order to not offend the “peaceful” religion of pisslam. We never quite did understand that, by the way. If they’re so bloody peaceful and all, just what exactly is it that the apologists for them fear from them if they should manage to upset them? Are they afraid that they’re going to be smothered and loved to death by throngs of Kumbayah-singing, flower-throwing pisslamic yoots?

After releasing a ten-minute self-produced film entitled “Fitna,” Wilders found himself wound up in a litany of “hate speech” litigation, one such suit filed by a radical Imam asking for 55,000 Euros in compensation for his hurt feelings.

The towel-wrapped imam should take that up with his pedophile prophet, since all Wilders did was provide people with actual quotes from the unholy quran, paired with actual, unedited footage of chanting, screaming, feces-flinging pisslamic monkeys confirming and pledging allegiance to every single rotten, genocidal, psychotic word held within that Satanic tome.

The truth hurts, doesn’t it, you pig-eyed, squealing sand hog?

And you’re not all that intelligent either, are you? We mean, there’s one thing about this whole pisslamic howling about movies such as Fitna, not to mention the Mo-Toons that just doesn’t make sense. You’re proving our point, dumbasses! When it is in any way suggested that yes, Virginia, the puslims really are quite hypersensitive and very much prone to exaggerated displays of random violence at even the slightest perceived insult, you morons promptly “refute” such suggestions by, yes, taking to the streets and committing random acts of exaggerated violence.

Really now. Were you born that retarded or do you have some sort of program going to Breed for Stupid™?

Oh, and another thing. Just as the furor over Fitna has died and pretty much everybody have forgotten that it was ever made, not to mention what was actually in it, you dysfunctional dorkstraps have to come right out and stir up another firestorm about it.

Very well then. As you wish. If you’d held your camel cum-crusty lips zipped, this whole thing would have just quietly disappeared, but since you insist:

Thatisall.

P.S.: And for the last time, “Dutch” means “from the Netherlands.”

51 Responses to ““Free Speech” EUrabia Style…”

  1. 1
    Mike M says:
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    P.S.: And for the last time, “Dutch” means “from the Netherlands.”

    Yeah, we know. It’s the place the sprouts come from.

  2. 2
    Mike M says:
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    For some reason I can’t view more than the first three minutes of that video before it kicks back to the beginning. But the first three minutes is enough to remind me why the murderous cult called “islam” needs to be eradicated from the face of the Earth.

  3. 3
    Cortillaen says:
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    I’m happy to have this video on my hard drive (snagged from YouTube before they killed the first upload).
    Maybe the reason leftists seem to love Muslims is that they feel that sort of kindred which comes from both being hypocrites…

  4. 4
    Reply  |  Quote

    Statists in the EU like the Islamics because they are entitlement voters; put them on the voting rolls and they vote socialist.

    And the Saudis love buying politicians, since they are so darned cheap!

    So, the political establishment wants nothing to happen that upsets their new voter base, thus the peasants must be made to STFU. Of course, even they know these islamics will put an ayatollah in charge the second they have a majority … but politicians never think further ahead then the next election.

  5. 5
    Cheryl says:
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    Maybe the reason leftists seem to love Muslims is that they feel that sort of kindred which comes from both being hypocrites…

    And both hate freedom.

    You pisslamic filth, you think because B. Hussein and his gutter rat wife are defiling the White House right now that your chance has come to take over America? We don’t roll over like the euroweenies. Keep pushing and you will be ground into dust. Guaranteed. Stinking goat felchers.

  6. 6
    Reply  |  Quote

    Oh, and BTW …

    My favorite atheist Pat hit another one out of the ballpark on this …

    Shame on The Netherlands

  7. 7
    Reply  |  Quote

    When Fitna first came out I never got to see it, it was pulled from sites faster than I could get there. :em02:

    I actually watched it last night and am trying to figure out what “speech” Wilders used to defame pisslam? Everything in the film was quotes from the koran or their mullahs.

    Hate speech is now “inciting hatred and discrimination” against Muslims by using their own words to show they believe you must die unless they agree with their interpretation of how to live.?

    Bring it on mooselimb!!! I’m not going to hang my homosexual neighbor, shoot the Jew down the street or stone the slut daughter that lives across the street. Actually I would shelter and protect them from you. :em96:

  8. 8
    Nomad says:
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    Can we just raze their mosques and exile them in the same manner the Turks and Persian shahs used against Christians and other brave souls in the last century? My schedule is so open for that!

    Thank you all again for keeping this subject brightly burning, I appreciate the “ammo” for educating my neighbors.

    Semper Fidelis :em04:

  9. 9
    mindy1 says:
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    Fight for free speech-speak your minds when you can, and make sure the First amendment stays free for all

  10. 10
    Reply  |  Quote

    mindy1 @ 8:

    Fight for free speech-speak your minds when you can, and make sure the First amendment stays free for all

    To make sure that can happen is the reason for the amendment below the first.

    I’ll speak my mind any damn time I want to. Like all of the Bill of Rights, these are things that are unalienable, the gov’t didn’t give them to me, they have been the right of mankind since creation.

  11. 11
    Cheryl says:
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    these are things that are unalienable, the gov’t didn’t give them to me, they have been the right of mankind since creation.

    Try explaining that to a lib. There seems to be a defect in their DNA that prevents them from understanding the concept of “unalienable right.” Makes you think they’re downright uncomfortable with the word “self-determination” and prefer being told what to think and what to do.

  12. 12
    SeniorD says:
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    Heh, I remember when a Socialist country would

    a) prohibit proletariats citizens from speaking their mind
    b) would jail anyone that advocated for a non-State approved thought

    Guess we can’t call die Nederlanden true ‘Socialists’.

    Cowards are more in line with this incident.

    Oh, and Cheryl, libprog Leftists don’t object to inalienable rights. Just the Source of those inalienable rights.

  13. 13
    Cheryl says:
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    Oh, and Cheryl, libprog Leftists don’t object to inalienable rights. Just the Source of those inalienable rights.

    I know, SeniorD. The idea of only one King does not compute.

  14. 14
    LC Anniee451 says:
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    P.S.: And for the last time, “Dutch” means “from the Netherlands.”

    So…what country is that?

  15. 15
    StillWater says:
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    …prosecuting him is somehow in “the public interest.”

    What a crock–and all for merely pointing out the truth. :em98:

    Since there’s probably no way around Wilders’ persecution prosecution, it is my sincere hope that his penalty is nothing more than a suspended sentence.

  16. 16
    Reply  |  Quote

    Oh, and Cheryl, libprog Leftists don’t object to inalienable rights. Just the Source of those inalienable rights.

    To which I would add: They are against ‘legislating morality’, unless it is their morality.

  17. 17
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    Cheryl @ 11:

    The inalienable rights that I referred to, you may have noticed I didn’t refer that they were specifically handed down to us by G-d, just a higher authority. Regardless of where they originated, our government set the basis on these things that cannot be compromised.

  18. 18
    TerribleTroy says:
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    How can anyone with any bit of common fucking sense look at this situation and agree with it? It is one of those things that is so fantastically bizzare, that it just freezes my brain… WAS THERE ANYTHING IN THAT VIDEO THAT WASNT FACT????……

  19. 19
    GamerFromJump says:
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    Anybody catch this astoundingly biased crap on 60 Minutes. I though maybe, just maybe, someone might actually talk about the rockets, but noooo…

    Expecting actual reporting? What was I thinking? :em98:

    Is something wrong here? I seem to not be getting through, that’s different than the moderation that was happening.

  20. 20
    BigDogg says:
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    TerribleTroy sez:

    How can anyone with any bit of common fucking sense look at this situation and agree with it? It is one of those things that is so fantastically bizzare, that it just freezes my brain… WAS THERE ANYTHING IN THAT VIDEO THAT WASNT FACT????……

    Since when do facts – or history, for that matter – concern a leftist??? Facts are subjective, and history restarts every morning when they wake up.

  21. 21
    LC Wes, Imperial Mohel says:
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    P.S.: And for the last time, “Dutch” means “from the Netherlands.”

    So, Misha, what you’re saying is that any more LCs who confuse Holland and its residents with Denmark and Danes, are going to be in real Dutch with you…?

    :em01:

  22. 22
    Deathknyte says:
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    So…what country is that?

    Holland
    There is often confusion about Holland. Some people call the Netherlands, Holland, but it is not the same. Holland is only a small part of the Netherlands and like the Dakotas, Carolinas and Virginias, there are two.
    There’s “North-Holland” (Capital city is Haarlem) and “South-Holland” (Capital city is The Hague).
    Holland used to be an independent country. It had a “Count”, its own coinage (until the 19th century), its own measuring units and time – but it gave up that independence in the 16th century, when it allied with the Northern and Southern Netherlands against the armies of the King of Spain whom at the time was officially the “Count of Holland” and ruled over this whole area.

    The main reasons for war were religious differences, disputes over taxes and the fact that when some cities wanted to break free, the King’s army was quite brutal to civilians.

    Eventually the Southern Netherlands gave up the fight and stayed occupied by foreign forces until 1830. That area is now called Belgium. The Northern Netherlands fought on and won. Then, along with the counties of (Holland, Drente, Groningen, Friesland, Gelderland, Zeeland and Utrecht) became a free Republic, including the occupied regions of Brabant and Limburg.

    All these counties (called provinces today, together with some new ones) are now called “The Kingdom of the Netherlands.”

    Today the province of Limburg still has a Governor and to say to someone from Limburg or Friesland that he or she is from Holland, is considered an insult. They are not! They consider themselves to be from the Netherlands. They even have their own language.

    People from other Provinces (except North and South Holland) will perhaps not consider it a real insult, but still they’re not from Holland.

    In summary, Holland gave up its individual independence a very long time ago, so calling the Netherlands “Holland”, is much like calling Great Britain “England.” Wrong in both cases.

    North of Belgium west of Germany

  23. 23
    Reply  |  Quote

    I just signed the International petition to the Dutch government in support of Geert Wilders. I would like to see everyone on this site sign it and all who have blogs , post it there for your readers.

    http://www.petitiono.....ition.html

    I also have a nice support Geert Wilders pic with a quote on my blog. Feel free to steal it. :-)

    Oh how I yearn for sanity and freedom in the world. :em03:

  24. 24
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
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    Haven’t posted or read in awhile, been too busy buying guns, powder and such….

    So…. when does the shooting start?

    Which “executive order” surrendering our safety, sovereignty and Liberty is the last straw that will convince the currently feckless/clueless/timid/law-abiding that it’s time to act?

    My dear compatriots… the time is long past.

    How many outrageous affronts to Right and Reason will it take?

    I’ve been waiting thirty years and then some.

  25. 25
    Delftsman3 says:
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    P.S.: And for the last time, “Dutch” means “from the Netherlands.”

    First, I apologize to all the rest of the Rotty Empire that this could occur in my old homeland. Those few of you that have ever read my blog will have noted my heading “Dutch by birth, American by choice, and LC by Imperial Decree” I assure you this is embarrassing to me in the extreme.

    Second, thank you for the history lesson DK, you were accurate in ALL of your statements. Good to see someone that cares enough to thoroughly research his subject before opening his piehole. I relate my heritage as being”from Holland” whenever it is appropo even though it always grates me to do so; it’s just not worth it to try to recount old history to people that really don’t give a damn about history in general in the first place, much less the history of a country the size of the Netherlands. My paternal family is from Beverwijk and my maternal from Utrecht, both part of the North Coalition in the days that DK was referrring to. Most people have never heard of the Netherlands, but barely know about “Holland” because of Dikes, Windmills,Tulips, and that stupid story of the boy with his finger in the Dike. (My father always said it should have been spelled “dyke” for it to be the true story, but thats an entire different subject. LOL)

    As I stated in a prior thread, Den Hague is really more of a U.N. construct than a truly Dutch court these days. Yes they are also part of the Dutch Judicial system (something similar to the U.S. Supreme Court), but they are saturated by EU one-world statist flunkies as it’s also the main enclave of the so called “World Court”.

    Just for grins, I wonder just how many Americans know that a certain major U.S. city was actually first settled by the Dutch and was known as “New Amsterdam” before being stolen annexed by the British ?…..hint: the city that hosts the U.seless N.itwits these days.

  26. 26
    Reply  |  Quote


    Delftsman3

    First, I apologize to all the rest of the Rotty Empire that this could occur in my old homeland.

    It’s not only your home country, but many in Europe. We have let a generation of useless statists, multicultural dreamers and schizophrenic self-haters take over our executive and judicature.

    In Austria, member of commons Susanne Winter was sentenced to 3 months in prison and a EUR 24k fine for stating that under today’s justice system, Mohammad would be considered a child rapist for marrying a 6 year old girl and raping her at age 9. The determination whether what she said was true wasn’t even admitted as evidence.

    In February 2006 a 61 years old German man was sentence to a year in prison for producing toilet paper rolls with the words ‘Koran, the holy Koran’ printed on them.

    In October 2007, a French woman (Fanny Truchelut) was sentenced to a EUR 8500 fine for refusing to rent her chalet in the French Vogese mountains to two women because they had been completely veiled with their faces not visible when they inquired about renting the chalet.

    These are just the ones that spring to mind. All this stuff amounts to a justice of political convictions. New laws are introduced and old ones bent to attack people opposing the current political ideology. They are not sentencing the ‘offenders’ to capital punishment and they don’t torture them like Roland Freisler of the Nazi People’s Court, but the underlying principle is the same.

    The clean-up will be long and ugly. It’s gonna be a nasty fight. But well, we will be prepared by the time it starts.

  27. 27
    Darth Bacon says:
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    a certain major U.S. city was actually first settled by the Dutch and was known as “New Amsterdam”

    Yeah, yeah…

    Jooo York City. For a place that is home to so many of my people- to be home to the nexus of hatred for my people…

    Rich, nougat-y irony.

  28. 28
    Cheryl says:
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    ?…..hint: the city that hosts the U.seless N.itwits these days.

    Ah, it must be “The Stench on Turtle Bay,” that you refer to, Delftsman. Those skunks are taking up way too much real estate in this city. They’re parasites. The building is ugly and not even up to code. Roust the filth, tear the damn place down. It’s prime waterfront property that could be put to much better use.

  29. 29
    Chalkie says:
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    That video is haunting. I still can’t watch the jumpers. As for him being tried with inciting or whatever the hell they’re charging him with… If it is true, then, morally, they should have no case. Shining a light on the truth should never be wrong (certain national secrets excepted. I mean, printing how an atom bomb works in 1943 would have and should be rightly be considered a crime). This is simply an attempt to appease a bunch of assholes, which is futile and wasteful. If they don’t like freedom, there’s lots of places we can send them back to.

    Deathknyte sez:

    In summary, Holland gave up its individual independence a very long time ago, so calling the Netherlands “Holland”, is much like calling Great Britain “England.” Wrong in both cases.

    Thank you. This is not covered well in US schools (I even went to good ones!) and this really helped me understand it. :em69:

    Delftsman3 sez:

    I wonder just how many Americans know that a certain major U.S. city was actually first settled by the Dutch and was known as “New Amsterdam” before being stolen annexed by the British ?

    My education on this was completed not by my schooling, but by a certain catchy tune that was eventually covered by They Might Be Giants, which would be stuck in my head if it weren’t for the disturbing video I just watched. If you haven’t heard, youtube Istanbul (Not Constantinople) .

  30. 30
    Dragineez says:
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    Kristopher, LC sez:

    Oh, and BTW …
    My favorite atheist Pat hit another one out of the ballpark on this …
    Shame on The Netherlands

    I absolutely love Pat Condell’s rants. Everything I want to say, but said so much more eloquently than I could ever manage.

  31. 31
    Magic says:
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    Everyone knows the direction of EUabia is taking. It has been pretty clear for about the last decade. The government toadies have been kissing up to their new and or future masters for awhile. They wish to ensure that when the new masters take over the will not be beheaded. The have begun to worship the holy child molester, thief, and pervert. The courage of our grandfathers and even our fathers are gone the liberals and socialists have determined that we should not fight to save our culture and just revert to our barbarian past. Our barbarian past is honorable and pure and anything like a democratic culture is a horrible and disgraceful thing. That is why the birth rate is falling so quickly no one wants to have a child grow up without courage or hope or into the perversion that is the EU.

  32. 32
    LC Rainy says:
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    Just for grins, I wonder just how many Americans know that a certain major U.S. city was actually first settled by the Dutch and was known as “New Amsterdam” before being stolen annexed by the British ?…..hint: the city that hosts the U.seless N.itwits these days.

    As genealogy is one of my many hobbies, and as my husband’s ancestors hailed from Holland but had the foresight to migrate to America around 1656, I did know about New Amsterdam. I actually knew about it before my research, but only in a superficial way.

    Garret Van Swearingen and his fellow Dutch colonists took Fort Casimir Delaware from the Swedes and renamed it New Amstel in April 1657. In 1664, the English took the settlement from the Dutch, and most of their possessions as well. The family story is that Garrett broke his sword over his knee and renounced his allegiance to Holland. He and his family then migrated to St Mary’s City, MD, the state capital at the time. Garrett and his family became English citizens in 1669.

    You can learn about the Van Swearingen family at Old St Mary’s City, MD, now a living history museum. Recent digs have uncovered artifacts used by Garrett and his family.

    Genealogy is a wonderful way to learn history. It makes it interesting and personal, rather than the dry lectures we all remember from school.

  33. 33
    Reply  |  Quote

    I see a double edge to this, maybe a blade we can use here.
    OK, hate speech is punishable. Now it’s a given.
    And, I’d bet that last can of salmon in my tool locker that everyone here has a lot more than a clue as to where the majority of the most hideous exhaltations of hatred originates these days.

    OK, let’s play.

    The very next time I go the europisstan, I’ll be suited up with a lawyer’s trip wire kit, it’ll give me just the right ding-dongs (legal terminology) to cinch up and nail down for him/her to make precisely the same case against ANY muzzy that commits the same infraction toward me.
    All on digital video, 16 bit stereo.

    (Prep’s for media hoards)
    *sniff*,,”He called me, *sob,sniffle* HE CALLED ME A KAFIR! ”

    Yep,’think I’m ready for my close up, Mr.DiMille.

  34. 34
    anonymous hourly worker says:
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    Time for another Muslim joke.

    Q.: What’s the hardest part about a Muslim killing his own daughter?
    A.: Suppressing the erection.

    I know. It’s immature. But just like eating a Blowpop, it’s so much fun.

  35. 35
    Reply  |  Quote

    anonymous hourly worker sez:

    A.: Suppressing the erection.

    What makes you think they do during an “honor” killing?

  36. 36
    Reply  |  Quote

    anonymous hourly worker sez:

    I know. It’s immature. But just like eating a Blowpop, it’s so much fun.

    A Blowpop????

    crikey, the jokes for that write themselves

  37. 37
    LC LittleRott84 says:
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    Delftsman3 sez:

    Just for grins, I wonder just how many Americans know that a certain major U.S. city was actually first settled by the Dutch and was known as “New Amsterdam” before being stolen annexed by the British ?…..hint: the city that hosts the U.seless N.itwits these days.

    I do, I do!!!! It’s New York City. :em93:

  38. 38
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC LittleRott84 sez:

    I do, I do!!!! It’s New York City.

    Sheeesh…I thought it was San Francisco judging from all the dykes there.

  39. 39
    Contrarian Dutchman says:
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    Yes, our current rulers are unsettlingly good at making us look bad and regressing the freedom of the people by centuries. Still, just about every internet poll conducted in the last few days shows 80-90% disapproval of the court ruling. In addition, Wilders’ Freedom Party made a 20% jump n the polls. Another 18 months before they are forced to call elections… Long time, but don’t write off the Netherlands just yet.

  40. 40
    mindy1 says:
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    HoosierArmyMom @:
    I signed the petition. I do not want to end up like in Farenheit 451 and have critical thinking outlawed because someones feelings might get hurt :em98:

  41. 41
    LC Subotai Bahadur says:
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    #33 LC Cheapshot911

    In theory, yeah. However, this is Europe. They are a bit ahead of us on the curve of submission. I promise you that the concept of equality before the law left Europe a long time ago. You would be charged with a hate crime for making the assumption that a member of the soon-to-be masters would do anything against the law.

    I am reminded of something from American History. From the 1840’s until 1943 Americans in China had “extraterritorial status”. When you got, after distilling it all down, is that no American could be charged under Chinese law for any crimes he committed in China. In return, Chinese in America were defined as not being human beings and had no access to the court system or the protection of the law.

    In Europe, Muslims have the same status as Americans in China in those days. And those of European ancestry who remain in Europe will soon be in the position of Chinese in America in the same period. Don’t get too smug though. Similar things are coming to the US, if Hussein Pasha and the Democrats have their way. They just will have more “protected classes” beyond Muslims.

    #38 Contrarian Dutchman,

    I am making the assumption that you are a Netherlands national, from your comments. It seems to me that elections, real elections, are going out of fashion in Western countries. We had our own recent fiascos with candidate eligibility, voter registration enabling massive fraud in absentee ballots, Democratic officials enabling the validation of known false registrations, and vote counts of dubious legality. Britain has managed to have a one-party transition of power without benefit of an election and is trying to hold off elections until sovereignty is yielded to the EU [making elections moot]. In Canada, after losing an election, the Canadian parties equivalent to our Democrats and their allies to the Left tried to create an extra-constitutional coalition to take power without either a vote of the people or the legal vote of confidence. They were only stopped by the Queen through her Governor General.

    It did leave an interesting constitutional question. The Queen has the power to hold the Canadian Parliament to the Constitution, but according to the Labour Government in Britain she cannot do the same in Britain.

    In any case, you are placing your hopes on an election in the Netherlands in 18 months. From your point of view: a) what are the chances of the current governing coalition [I believe that it is a coalition, but could be wrong] pulling something akin to what I noted above to avoid losing power? b) what do you think the reaction of the citizens of the Netherlands would be in such a case?

    LC Subotai Bahadur

  42. 42
    LC SleepTech: Remnant SheepDog says:
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    “Islamization” will NOT stop until the ‘final round’.
    For all of you believers, that is when we are ‘recalled’.
    For all of you non-believers, that is when ALL of the ‘radical right wing Christians’ are abducted by aliens simultaneously.

    In other words, the ‘Islamization’ of the world will culminate in “The End”, after 42 months of ‘peace’, of course.

    If you ‘Believe’, fear not!! If you don’t ‘Believe’, well, then, “FEAR”!!!

    Yes, call me crazy, deranged,”God bag”, hateful and stupid. But remember, I was the one who said you(those on the right) would come to hate ALL Islam at least 3 years ago.

    Islam(ALL of it, every last bit) is the enemy. PERIOD!!

    If you want to disprove me, then name ONE other religion that has caused more damage, harm, loss of life or turmoil as Islam!!!
    I guarantee you, that you CANNOT!!!!!

    BTW Subotai, I saw your response to your nationality.

    Thank You for your response.

  43. 43
    Reply  |  Quote

    In Europe, Muslims have the same status as Americans in China in those days

    Precisely the area of cover we have to deny them.

    A local resident turning the table exactly 108.000 deg’s would say everything about a system of justice that we need to know.
    Can they tell if the field is really level?
    If they can’t, then we should point loudly to it from over on our side here.

    ‘Start getting ready to save their sorry asses again, then get spat on for doing it.

  44. 44
    Reply  |  Quote

    Don’t save them. Let them fall to Islam.

    Carpet bomb with nukes.

    Send colonists after the radiation dies down, and move the survivors to reservations. They can open casinos if they want …

  45. 45
    Reply  |  Quote

    Sorry ’bout that … this surrender to a-holes crap just brings out my inner fascist.

  46. 46
  47. 47
    Contrarian Dutchman says:
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    LC Subotai Bahadur @:

    Subotai,

    You are correct to think I am a Dutch national. Your questions may require a somewhat lenghty response, but I will try to keep it as brief as possible.

    I should be noted that the Dutch as a rule are extremely law-abiding, even more so then the Germans who have the reputation. “You must follow the rules” is an extremely common saying. In addition, despite first appearances, the Dutch are generally highly deferential to authority. Again, more so then the Germans who have the reputation. This is not always visible form the outside because Dutch culture is also strongly egalitarian so authority must always be camouflaged. In addition, Dutch culture places considers consensus, or the appearance thereof, very important. The only society I can think of that does this to the same degree is Japan.

    As a consequence of these cultural traits the Dutch authorities have always had great difficulty handling open dissent. Conversely, dissenters have tended to be rare as few are prepared to challenge their cultural conditioning. Dissent breaches “consensus” and is deemed insufficiently deferantial to the point of being insulting. Historically, the elite has always preferred to deal with dissent by first ignoring it and, if that failed, partly coopting the dissenters. I consider it quite likely that they will eventually conform to pattern and coopt the dissenters (Wilders and his voters). The ongoing effort to suppress dissent is undutch and may not last.

    For decades, the Dutch elite has managed to maintain a consensus that:

    1. mass immigration from Turkey and Morocco is good;
    2. the Netherlands needs to adapt to the needs and desires of the immigrants.

    Early dissenters against this view were ridiculed and/or ignored. This approach was succesful.

    Consensus began to crack in the nineties when the Liberal party, the smallest of the big three established parties, (European liberals, that’s conservatives for USians…) started to openly question this view and rapidly gained during elections to the point of seeming set to become the biggest party. The Liberals had an internal revolt as supporters of the consensus vieuw ousted party chief Bolkestein and moved the pary back to consensus, incidentally also giving up their electoral support.

    The came Fortuyn. A true maverick who had always been a poor fit to the political establishment, he challenged the consensus view during the 2001/2002 electoral cycle and gained massive support in the polls. He was murdered, an event as shocking to the Dutch as 9/11/01 was to Americans. His murder led to considerable but disorganized unrest, a large angry, but leaderless, crowd almost stormed parliament but were dispersed by massive police reinforcements that arrived just in time. As the news reported that the murderer was a native Dutchman, the anchor audibly sighed with relief. It was widely believed that massive rioting would have folowed had the murdered been Muslim.

    Before the murder, Fortuyn had been subjected to furious attacks on his person with numerous statement to the effect that he was a Nazi and ill-disguised calls for his “removal”. To this day, many people think, in my opinion justifiably, that the political and media elite deliberately created a climate in which a self-appointed savior would rid them of this turbulent professor. The more conspiratorially inclined believe that the murder was directly ordered by the government who conveniently refused to provide protection despite credible threats.

    After the death of Fortuyn his astily assembled party, which still gained huge support during the elections, fell apart. Consensus appeared restored. Bur the restoration failed. Wilders entered the stage.

    Wilders began his political career as a member of parliament for the Liberal party but broke with them over the issue of Turkish EU membership. He remained an mp and spend several years sniping at the liberals from the right while gathering support to form his own party list for the elections. In 2006 his new Freedom Party (PVV) gained 9, out of 150, seats in parliament, stunning friend and foe alike and making one of the strongest arrivals of a new party in Dutch history. He has been needling the governing coalition at every opportunity, while the media’s obsession with blasting him seems to serve mostly as free publicity. He has also drawn substantial international attention, making the authorities deeply uncomfortable as they fear losing “face” before their peers in the rest of the world.

    The current coalition government is floundering and would in my opinion have fallen if they were not petrified of the prospect of elections. Wilders’ PVV is going from strength to strength in the polls and the polls almost certainly understate his support by a wide margin.

    You say I am “placing my hope in elections in 18 months”. I need to qualify that. I do not expect the elections to create a drastic change. The rate of poltical change in the Netherlands is only measurable in geological time. Breaking the consensus on immigration and Islam is a process that has been afoot for about three decades now and it will not suddenly end in 18 months. What I am hoping for is:

    1. we get rid of the current hopelessly incompetent government;
    2. the political elite gives up on the undutch effort of trying to crush Wilders and begins to shift toward cooptation;

    If nothing else, I expect it to be another marker on the road to a final collapse of consencus that will in my opinion require at least another decade to play out. I would at least expect a bit of “stealth cooptation” to try to defuse the issue.

    Having said all that for background, but I think it is necessary background, on to your questions.

    a) I think outright electoral fraud is unlikely. The Netherlands operates a proportianal presentation system and any fraud big enough to make a difference would have to be so massive that it would be almost impossible to hide. In the US it is possible to manufacture a few hundred or maybe a few thousand votes and if you do it in a crucial closely fought district it can tip the balance. In the Netherlands you would have to forge votes by the hundrerds of thousands to make it count. That seems unfeasible. The conspiracy required would be far to large to ensure secrecy. And strict secrecy would be required as I am very sure fraud would go down very badly with the public. Having a law abiding population is mostly an advantage for the government, but not when you are found to be cheating.

    It is likely that Wilders will be kept out of government even after a massive electoral success (similar to Canada, but here it is common practice and not seen as constitutionally problematic), but both the Liberals and the Christian democrat leaderships are vulnerable to internal revolts if their parties keep losing support and Wilders keeps gaing it. The PVV is unlikely to join the governing coalition in 2010 but it’s ideas are likely to gain ground anyway as other parties attempt to steal their thunder. Eventually, I expect this to lead to a surrender by the consensus view, with the ideas of the PVV becoming acceptable thought.

    b)If very dirty play is attempted to suppress the PVV the likely response is violence, and lots of it. Things got hairy for a moment after Fortuyn was murdered and the authorities seem very fearful of what will happen should Wilders be murdered. They dare not withdraw his security detail, because if they do and he is killed, severe rioting is expected. One interesting fact here is the following story.

    In march 2007 a man was shot by police after he had an argument with Moroccan “youths” and police said they felt threatened because he had a knife. The copt who shot him was reported as being Moroccan as well. This triggered multiple days of rioting with hundrerds of arrests and the police had obvious difficulty getting things back under control. This was in a single neighbourhood, over an incident that was little reported in the mainstream media. The flamable material is there, all it needs is a trigger.

    Also, I can’t escape the impression that the authorities are absolutely terrified. One tidbit: a high ranking civil servant in the security apparatus (X) had someone charged for threatening his life because of the statement “X is a traitor and should be shot”. This implied that getting shot as a traitor is seen as a realistic threat to his live… What does he know?

    The violent overthrow of a government would be *very* undutch, but it is starting to slowly look like a possibility. And I wouldn’t give a penny for the army’s loyalty to the government in such a situation. And in that situation I would not want to be associated with Islam in any way as it could prove a major health hazzard.

    Does that answer your questions?

  48. 48
    LC Subotai Bahadur says:
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    #47 Contrarian Dutchman

    Thank you for your thoughtful answer. In some ways I am encouraged, and in some discouraged as far as the Netherlands is concerned. I am gratified to hear that our level of cheating as far as votes are concerned is apparently not possible. Given that there is the 18 months to an election that the government fears, and that there is apparently no way to force an election; means that the election itself is critical. If as you say, that there is not a possibility for a qualitative change in policy after that election, at least in a time frame not measured by tectonic drift, means that it is probably too late.

    I am not sure that in desperation; that the governing coalition would not withdraw Geert Wilders’ security detail, especially since deciding to prosecute him “in the public interest”. There had to be some fairly heavy pressure from the government to get that decision to prosecute. They may figure that once that process starts, or immediately after the preordained guilty verdict, that such a withdrawal would result in his leaving the country. To the government, that would be an ideal solution. They have the precedent of getting rid of Ayaan Hirsi Ali [who was also an MP] by withdrawing her security detail in the wake of prosecution. One quick question. In European countries it is not uncommon for the Napoleonic pattern of justice to prevail. Specifically, is the judge functionally part of the prosecution like in France, Belgium, and Germany?

    You mentioned the relief after it was found that the killer of Pym Fortune was a native Dutchman. I seem to remember hearing that the said native Dutchman had converted to Islam about a year before the killing, and was associated with people our former administration would have liked to have had a long talk with. Hussein Pasha, of course, is sure that those people are really on the right track. Am I remembering correctly?

    It could be that “Mr. X” has a rational fear of political assassination. And no, not from an angered Dutch populace; but rather if in fact the Muslims have been angered, it seems that they literally get away with murder on a regular basis, or at least the instigators do. Further, if

    the murder was directly ordered by the government who conveniently refused to provide protection despite credible threats

    he may also fear that some of his superiors may be engaging in “wet work” simply by replacing the phrase

    “X is a traitor and should be shot”

    with “X is an infidel and should be shot/stabbed/beheaded”. Who was the person who made the statement, and what was his background?

    Overall, I fear that any change by political means will come too late. I hope that there are enough spiritual descendents of the Dutch Resistance to give hope of ending the dark future that seems to be destined.

    Thank you for giving me some signposts to watch for.

    LC Subotai Bahadur

  49. 49
    wbird says:
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    A brief note from a once Dutch national, to put the Socialist-this, Socialist-that crap in perspective: The Netherlands can hardly be called a socialist country nowadays. The country’s been run by a coalition of mostly right-wing, old-school, hardliner Christians since 2002.

  50. 50
    Contrarian Dutchman says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC Subotai Bahadur @:

    Subotai,

    The reason I think the upcoming elections are very important is that it will be the most likely moment for the political elite to give up on the undutch effort of attempting to crush Wilders and shift to cooperation. If the governing coalition gets crushed and Wilders wins big that would be a good moment for a changing of the guard in several political parties and dump the pro-immigration and pro-Islam line. Something like that already happened afte the 2002 elections and Fortuyn’s big posthumous win but the old guard reasserted itself after Fortuyn’s hastily assembled party imploded.

    I think this idiotic ruling is entirely the work of the Amsterdam appellate court. They have a hard-earned reputation for leftwing activism (think of you own Federal ninth circuit) and would need little encouragement. Also, the judiciary is quite independent form the executive and I doubt anybody in the government would want to be caught tampering just months after the Belgian government collapsed for exactly that reason. Moreover, the prosecution service, which is firmly controlled by the minister of “justice” has refused to prosecute Wilders because they saw no offense. It was this decision by the prosecution service that has now been overruled at the request of your typical array of leftwing activists. If the government had realy wanted to prosecute it could have directly ordered the prosecution service to do it.

    I the Dutch system judges have nothing to do with investigations or prosecutions. The prosecution service directs police investigation and prosecutes. It does require court permission for some activities. In addition, a “judge-commissar” may order additional investigation, but this is usually at the request of the defence.

    Overall this affair has every ingredient to become a major embarrassment to the goverment and so far this government hasn’t missed a single opportunity to shoot itself in the foot.

    As to Fortuyn’s murderer, I have never seen any confirmation that he was a convert to Islam. Everything suggests he is “just” an extreme left loon, animal rights activist, and general enemy of his own people. He DID say he murdered Fortuyn to “protect muslims” but that is the only link to Islam I know of.

    As to mr. X, he ordered the prosecution of some guy who made a comment on a blog. The way it was phrased made it clear that X should be shot by a firing squad, so no implication of asassination. The fascinating thing is that X apparently thinks there is a real threat that he would be found guilty of treason and face a firing squad…

    Last but not least, demographics are unfavorable but that change is slow too, so political change may be timely enough. We do take change slowly here, after all it took eighty years of war to break with Spain.



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