...2009 Archives...

This follows the train of discussion from the comments on my last post. Follow the evidence, wherever it may lead, no matter how uncomfortable the final conclusion makes you.
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It is true that I am a blog slut. I write or comment at several blogs, and the discussions from one, influence what happens at another. Over at BELMONT CLUB we were discussing the insane situation we have politically; and trying to come to a conclusion as to what the future holds. I found myself answering several different questions, and stringing points together. If you don’t mind, I will bring the string for the LC’s to ponder. Items presented thusly are quotes from those with whom I was engaged in discussion.

At this time, it’s hard to predict what will really happen next fall in the polling booths. And that is frankly the only poll that really matters. [ This was part of a discussion where it was implied that things would be reclaimed in November.]

Truer words rarely spoken. However, we are dealing with people for whom it has been shown that the rule of law means absolutely nothing. Keep in mind that registration fraud is a massive Democrat funded [see ACORN] enterprise, and presumably vote fraud because otherwise why create all those false registrations [150,000 known false registrations accepted by the Democrat Secretary of State in Ohio in 2008 alone]? One has to wonder at what point the legitimacy of the vote count comes into question.

Having spent a fair amount of my career trying to figure out what was the truth behind the actions of various felons, witnesses, and victims [everybody lies sometimes]; I have learned that the first thing to look out for is when people suddenly start acting out of character. People are creatures of routine. They do not change those routines unless compelled to, or unless they believe that conditions have changed and a change is to their personal benefit.

I have been an observer [and activist] in politics since the 1960 election. I won’t reveal my age, but I started getting involved in politics young. Observing politicians gives a certain insight into their motivations. One of the prime motivations of politicians is self-preservation in office.

They do not normally go out of their way to take a stand on anything for fear of angering blocs of voters. They will straddle any issue, talk out of four sides of their mouths [double talk on both sides], and watch polling religiously twisting in the breeze of public opinion. What do you call a politician who has consistent principles and who stands on them? Either a myth, or out of work.

Fear of repercussions at the polls over-rides all. While they may have contempt for us [and most politicians do], they do their best to conceal it behind a smile and fake concern.

Politicians acting out of character indicates a change in the rules, whether we know it or not.

This regime has upset me almost from the beginning. It began to cause grave concern when the Town Hall movement began. What did we see?

Democrats, Democrat party officials, and the government controlled media chose to deliberately insult and attack citizens who accepted what was in fact the invitations of the Congress-Critters to attend Town Hall meetings, and who dared to ask real questions and insist on answers. This was followed by the White House insisting that the Left “push back” against those citizens.

Shortly thereafter Democrat Congress-Critters started having ACORN and SEIU security forces at these events. Citizens were threatened, blocked out, and eventually physically assaulted. The assailants, it seems, have judicial immunity.

Here is where things really got out of character. If you were a member of the political elite who still had to face the voters, this turn of events would terrify you. You would be screaming bloody murder about how you were not responsible for any of it, and how you were not going to put up with thugs attacking your constituents.

Anybody hear anything like that? I sure did not, and in fact what transpired was that the Democrats circled the wagons and increased their insults and attacks.

By the way, this is not to praise the Republicans. If they had half a lick of sense, concern for the country, or even for their own skins; the Republicans would be screaming like ruptured Bann Sidh about the conduct of the Democrats as a corollary to their attacks on the substance of both Health Care Nationalization and Cap and Tax. Once again, only the sound of the chirping of crickets. Another anomaly. Are they stupid, cowards, or do they know something we don’t?

Following this, there was the 9/12 march on Washington. While the media and the White House tried to claim that it was only a few thousand, but old aerial photos published in the Washington Post of the Inauguration, and a contemporary one taken 9/12 showed that the 9/12 demonstration filled more of the Mall, plus blocks on each side. And there were a similar number at local demonstrations around the country. It was somewhere on the order of between 1 and 2 million in DC, plus local events. The largest political demonstration in the history of the country, with participation by as many people as were in the country at the time of the Declaration of Independence, was deliberately ignored by the political elites.

Despite the huge hostile reaction, despite polling showing that Health Care Nationalization is NOT wanted by the population, they press ahead. They take the votes on weekends in a closed Capitol building. In the days leading up to the votes, they cut off phone communications with their offices. In Colorado, Senator Bennett literally had the telephone line to his Colorado Springs office disconnected so it could not be called by constituents.

Now there is a strong possibility that despite knowing that this is likely electoral suicide, knowing that it probably will finish off any hope that the economy will recover; that they are willing to publicly be seen as willing to pay off any Senator at any cost, pull any trick parliamentary maneuver, all to pass a bill [which they have not read, as with all major regime initiatives]. This bespeaks an arrogance worthy of the 1788 French nobility, a faith in a Socialist future worthy of a zampolit, or a sure and certain knowledge that they will never again be at risk of being held to account by the voters.

I will not doubt the arrogance, but at this level? Democrats are Leftists, but they hold faith in very little. “Ockham’s Razor” keeps popping up.

At this time, it’s hard to predict what will really happen next fall in the polling booths. And that is frankly the only poll that really matters.

Indeed. I would offer the thought that if they manhandle this 5 pounds of organic waste in a 4 pound container through; that the third option above is definitely something to be concerned about. IF the elections take place as scheduled, we should keep a quote attributed to Iosef Vissarionovich Djugashvili in mind:

“It’s not the people who vote that count. It’s the people who count the votes.”

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Do many of you truly believe the DEMs or O are going to attempt to postpone elections to maintain power? How much power do you believe they have?

It is less a matter of faith type belief, than a process of watching them systematically remove every other option to political suicide. Once all impossible explanations are removed, whatever remains, however improbable, is the likely explanation.

First let us deal with Barack Hussein Obama. There is nothing in his actions as far as he is known; politically, avocationally, or in his life history [what little that we have been allowed to see filtered by the state and its controlled media] that would indicate that he has any love, affection, or respect for this country, its Constitution, its laws, or its people. It is the respect for agreed precedent, due process, and proper form that separates politics in any non-tyranny from the Realpolitic that ends with Nights of Long Knives. There is nothing to indicate that any such respect exists, or that there is any countervailing fear of physical consequences that would restrain him.

Moving from colloquial English more towards terms of art within the field of Political Science; all political systems in whatever society ultimately rest upon the application of the coercive power [including death] of either the state or factions within. Every political system is a way of moderating and limiting the use of that coercive power in a way that is acceptable that society. That means can be as oligarchical and murderous as either the Eastern or Western Roman Empires, as centered on an all-powerful god-king as the ancient Egyptians, or as essentially self controlling as the Swiss Confederation. It is the acceptance of whatever means and mores that evolve for that society, passed on through the generations via the process of socialization into the culture [nothing to do with Marx, it is a term of art] that creates legitimacy for whatever political system. If factions within a body politic do not accept those means and mores [can you say for instance "Bourgeois sentimentality" or "opiate of the masses"] their actions are not bound by those means and mores, nor will they be constrained by the rules of the political system absent a literal fear of the coercive power of the state or other factions. To depend on hostile factions to act only within that system after they have demonstrated that they do not believe in it; simply because you yourself believe in the system with all your heart, is folly and perhaps a fatal folly.

I think it can be said that in every society where a change in the political system was imposed by an insurgent faction out to change it to their exclusive benefit; their plans and goals were evident to those who were observant and ignored by the wider society until it was too late.

Moving on to the Democrats and other Leftists in appointed and elected positions [I personally do not believe in the existence anymore of the now extinct "Conservative Democrat". Joe Lieberman is perhaps a near relative of one, but he is essentially a Liberal, and differs from his former party in that he does not hate this country as the rest of the Democrats do. Thus, he was purged. "Moderate Democrats" or "Blue Dogs" are simply Leftists who are more skilled at lying at home, while reliably voting hard Left at every opportunity.] you have to realize that people do not act irrationally from their own perspective. Their reasoning may be irrational, or fantasy, to outsiders; but they have an internally coherent set of reasons [ideology] for what they do. The more people acting the same way, however irrational to the main population, the more likely that they share that ideology, and the stronger it is in the group.

It is a given that amongst the Nomenklatura of any political system, the maintenance of power is the first goal, akin to and frequently in some systems interrelated to self preservation in the individual. There is no indication at all that the political establishment of this country [regardless of faction or party] is subject to fits of idealism, self-sacrifice, or what we could call patriotism. They are in it for personal power and wealth. No one who goes to an elected or appointed position in our Federal government comes out anything but rich [even if indicted] and usually powerful, even after leaving office.

The Democrats and other Leftists in office have not deviated from this, and have not demonstrated any inclination to yield power or commit political suicide for principle. Indeed, they have tightened their sole grip on power by means both technically legal [barring the Republicans from committee meetings in the House, and not allowing them to offer amendments to bills] and extra-legal and extra-constitutional [governing by a literal horde of appointed "Czars" not subject to confirmation, election, or judicial review].

They do not intend to lose power, and indeed are expanding their power. Simultaneously, if the law and Constitution are followed, they will have to answer for their actions to the voters in 2010 and 2012. If the law and Constitution are followed, if they continue to [several phrases come to mind, but even in Chinese they would break the house rules]; they can literally lose everything in an honest election. There is an impasse here.

Consider:

They turned the bank bailout and “Stimulus” into a slush fund for their supporters, over the objection of most of the voters.

They took over two of the three American auto companies with government funds, overturning a century of commercial law to literally steal the money of all stockholders and bondholders. The only ones to benefit have been the Unions who kick back part of the money to Democrats, and the government.

They are pushing “Cap and Tax” in the name of environmental purity; literally outlawing most forms of power generation in this country unless extortionate taxes are paid to the government and of course passed on to all consumers. This was passed very much over the objection of the people in the House, and stalled in the Senate when it was revealed that the “scientific research” on Global Warming, Climate Change, or whatever buzzword they are using today was based on a very limited amount of cherry picked faulty data, and that was further altered and faked for years. The response of the Democrats in power has been to impose the power to tax and regulate the same things by decree without a vote.

They are presiding over the absolute destruction of the American economy, with taxes guaranteed to rise, unemployment at 10% officially after the figures have been massaged and the U6 number that comes closest to the real unemployment rate is well north of 17% and maybe according to some calculations over 20%. In some parts of the country, the unemployment rate is 30%, and those areas happen to coincide with decades of Democrat controlled government. [Note, California has a governor who is technically a Republican, but he is a RINO at best, and the legislature has been over 50% Democrat in both houses for over a political generation].

There are no indications, outside of whatever the Democrats and media are smoking, that things will get better any time before November 2010; and every indication that after the first of the year there will be a tsunami of bankruptcies and layoffs.

Spending and appropriations have gone through the roof by deficit spending. Keeping in mind that Democrats have controlled both houses of Congress since the 2006 elections and thus controlled all spending; the deficit in the fiscal year that just ended in October set a record. The first two months of this fiscal year, has already beaten that record.

This spending is done by functionally printing more money with nothing real to back it. The Treasury issues bonds [Treasury Notes = promises to pay later]. The Federal Reserve “buys” those bonds on paper. They then use the bonds [promises to pay later] as collateral backing the issuance of several times the amount of the bonds. More dollars chasing fewer goods [as the economy collapses] = massive inflation once we hit the tipping point. Inflation destroys the savings, wages, and value of the property of the people.

Of the spending done with deficits, almost none of it is being used as claimed to “fix” the problems it was supposedly aimed at. Banks are not having their bad mortgages cleared, people are still getting foreclosed on, the jobs projects have not occurred, and in fact the money has been used to pay for local and state government to fill the holes in their budgets. The only jobs created are government jobs. Literally the only growing part of our labor force is government, even in states that are broke. It is noteworthy that Federal government employment has skyrocketed and it was released yesterday that the average wage of Federal employees is $71,000 with an increase by at least an order of magnitude in the number of Federal employees making over $100,000 a year.

In the midst of this, the Democrats in Congress have, once again literally, met the overwhelming and legal opposition of the people with insults, avoidance, and at times thug violence.

Now they are going to pass a Health Care Nationalization by hook or by crook. The terms that have escaped indicate that there will be massive cuts in healthcare available to the elderly. The commercials promise unicorns and skittles. The reality is that it is almost all paid for by cutting funding for medicare, imposing global lifetime limits on individual health care, imposing annual global budgets for each procedure that mean if the budget runs out that year patients will not get the operation until next fiscal year if at all, and by cutting diagnostic tests and early detection. Yes, they promise money savings and increased quality of care by more early detection; but they have announced new guidelines that cut the number of mammograms and pap smears. They specifically cut the number most in the age group of women where most breast cancers are detected [40-50].

Oh, and the increased taxes for it kick in immediately while the care won’t start for a couple of years. What are the odds that the tax collections won’t be spent on other things?

This will be passed, once again over the objections of the people; by what will be a party line vote, on a weekend, in blatant defiance of what people want. And like all the hallmark bills since January, it will be voted on without having been read.

In all cases, the public polls show massive opposition to the actions of Congress and to the specific programs Obama is pushing. These are massaged before release. The real, private polls commissioned by the politicians have to show worse. And still they do it.

Throughout it all; they are funding a nationwide group whose sole functions are vote fraud, mortgage fraud, tax fraud, and of late child prostitution. Said group is supported and protected by elected and appointed Democrats at all levels.

As I said, we have an impasse. The Left has no intention of giving up power. But they act consistently and almost unanimously in ways that leaving me biting my tongue to find ways of describing it in this forum, and actively infuriating huge swathes of the American people. If there are honest elections a whole bunch of them are going to lose power, quite possibly enough to take them out of control of the government.

Politicians in a group when they act consistently and anomalously against what would seem to be their own interests, are usually operating on information not available to anyone else. One also has to add to the mix the question why the Republicans as a party are only offering token opposition to the Democrats, when standing up would rally support to them? What do they know?

When you rule out the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, has to be considered. The only thing that remains, that I can see, is that no matter what they do, they no longer have any fear of facing the voters in an honest election. The specific mechanisms and basis for that confidence have yet to be determined. If anyone has a convincing alternative explanation that fits the data; I would gladly entertain it. I really would like to be able to accept an alternative that bodes better for our country, our Constitution, and the future of my children.

How much power do you believe they have?

As far as the amount of power that they think they have … I will note that through at least the 1970’s, and perhaps later as I do not have the figures at hand, the most common way that governments changed hands worldwide was by coup d’etat of one form or another. Yet even as a field of political science, it is rarely studied. I have done a bit in the field. I offer to you and to all BC-ers the book “Coup d’etat: A Practical Handbook” by noted political scientist and historian Edward Luttwak.

* ISBN-13: 9780674175471
* ISBN: 0674175476

available through retail booksellers and used book websites.

After reading about the mechanisms of various forms of coup, and the vulnerabilities in a body politic that can be exploited; you might be less confident as to the ability of our current society to prevent such an attempt, by electoral or other means.

As to whether such could be resisted and eventually turned back, I will leave to all to ponder.

I apologise for the length of this, but I wanted to lay out the reasons that, by their own actions, the Democrats have moved the possibility of their committing further extra-constitutional action from being beyond the Pale, to being something that must be seriously considered.

Our host, Wretchard, has more practical experience of dealing first hand with a tyranny masquerading as a constitutional democracy. I humbly request his input on the matter under question.

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When you live around a bunch of Dem supporters you find, or at least I do, that most are not fire breathing radicals that want to totally transform this Country. They’re mostly people who are fed the “right ideas”, the ones that are socially acceptable, and tailor their beliefs accordingly, whether those ideas are grounded in reality or not. The vast majority of them love this Country, although they may have some unusual ideas about it.

I hope that you are right but I fear that you are too optimistic. Some of the things you mention are true, or may be true, but I do not view them as being necessarily determinative.

The seizure of power in a state is not like something out of a Sergei Eisenstein movie. It is a series of carefully crafted moves, akin to the Japanese game of Go. It is said that Go relates to Western chess the same way that metaphysics relates to double-entry accounting. In Go, the placement of a single stone can frustrate the plans of your opponent, capturing a large amount of territory and a number of his stones. One may alternately, perhaps, think of the art of a coup as political Aikido, if you are involved in martial arts.

First, you have the difference between being inside the government, or being outside. Being outside the government does not apply to the cases we can consider, because they already have the levers of power.

Without going too much into the details of the scenarios in Luttwak’s book [Possession of which may someday constitute "Thoughtcrime". I was a freshman in college when I read the first edition.], the key in all types of scenario’s is to choose the chokepoints of the system and have your people acting to paralyse any who would oppose. If military units are ordered to remain in barracks by the right place in the chain of command, the odds are good they will do so for the 24-48 hours it will take to make the coup hold. If you have your people at the media [and in the case of Buraq Hussein Obama, his people ARE the media] you can spin whatever story you want to keep the civilian population quiet for that critical period. You need to seize immediate control of key points, political and economic, and you need to remove any obvious persons who could be a center of an opposition.

While there are others that could be in play; there are three variants that are in the heads of a lot of people concerned with the situation.

For the first scenario, remember that those we are concerned with already have control of the coercive organs of state power. Further remember that all of our political establishment considers itself above conventional morality, and the Left even more so. I already discussed in an earlier posting the dangers posed to a political system by factions who do not believe in the mores that limit the exercise of coercive power in a political system.

In addition to the official government agencies, the Democrats have ACORN [admittedly you would not want to use them for any task requiring precision or attention to detail], the strong-arm elements of various unions [especially the SEIU and UAW], and Organizing For America [which was his youth campaign organization that still exists and is now in part government funded through AmeriCorps. They seem to be involved in both street actions and in online activities, both legal such as trolling, and I believe less than legal hacking and disruption of alternate media sites and discussions.]

American history has turned on untimely deaths before. I reference the year 1968, Anno Irae, when our politics were shaped by a series of shootings. Wet work is far more sophisticated today.

The real problem is that our side has few real leaders, and most of the supposed leaders are more than happy with the way things are.

Note that their political tactics already center on the personal destruction of anyone who can be singled out as a leader of the opposition. It has become such a standard tactic, that they are baffled by the TEA Party movement, because it is in fact a grass roots movement that has no leaders. It is telling that the official Republican leadership, and the Republican party as a whole, is apparently not considered to be a threat worthy of the same attention. Something to think about.

The real leaders of the opposition do not hold formal positions of leadership, but rather are what they are. And they are very few in number. If over a period of time there were less than half a dozen “tragic accidents” or even one or two open attacks that could be blamed on “Right Wing Terrorists”, remembering that the government controls the investigations and the reporting of them; what effective opposition would there be to the Democrats in any election? Especially if the vote count is already partially adjusted by ACORN. The opposition to the regime would be demoralized. Your “vast majority who love this country, albeit with unusual ideas” would lap up the media’s spin on the events and would be cheering the deaths. The Oathkeepers would not be triggered to react.

Scenario Two: There is a host of “Emergency Powers” already on the books for the President to declare states of emergency based on a number of situations; military, economic, transportation, manufacturing, world trade, terrorism, internal security etc. that were granted by Congress during the Cold War and afterwards. Under those states of emergency, the president can functionally rule by decree and have it ratified by Congress later. Those emergency powers were always a two-edged sword; necessary for continuity of government if things were disrupted; but dangerous in the hands of someone whose love of the Constitution is so small that it cannot be detected with a scanning electron microscope. The assumption at the time was that if someone abused those powers, that there would be an opposition in Congress to balance him. Can you see anyone in Congress standing up to Buraq Hussein Obama? Of either party?

Your neighbors and their ovine cousins around the country would rally around the President in the time of “Emergency”, and if certain people disappeared during that time or in the aftermath, it would not be noted. And once again, the Oathkeepers would remain in barracks.

The regime does not need to pass a Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich ["Law to Remedy the Distress of the People and the Nation"], as it already functionally exists, scattered through the US Code. In a thread after this one, “Waiting”, Wretchard opened a discussion of the various evil events that are barreling down upon us. Any one of them could be used as a trigger. I think that Wretchard is an optimist as he gives two years as a timeline.

Scenario Three: Outright election fraud. This in a way is the most risky variant. Pretty much everybody in the patriotic opposition realizes that the Democrats have been engaged in vote fraud for decades, and that all restraint is now off. The last election was proof, if nothing else.

ACORN has been submitting false registrations nationwide for decades. They have been caught at it repeatedly. And for every false registration caught, how many have gotten through? Keep in mind that it is a violation of the PC rules to seriously look at the validity of votes and voter registrations. Under the Motor Voter Act, those registrations are easily inserted into the system, and are almost impossible to remove. Most states do not require ID to vote. For those who do, all you have to do is send in a request for a mail in absentee ballot. In the last election cycle, in Ohio, they caught ACORN inserting 150,000 false registrations. They admitted that they were not real. IF they were to be accepted [which they should not have been], they should have been sent to the County Clerks under Federal law as “Provisional Ballots” which would have allowed the person named to vote, but would not have counted the votes until the voter provided proof that he/she was the person legally registered. The Democrat Secretary of State ordered the registrations sent to the County Clerks as valid registrations, mixed in with the rest of the polling lists. Interestingly enough, in the legal action that followed, the Democrat appointed Federal judges ruled that no one, neither citizens, candidates, or the Republican party had standing to file suit over the validity of the registrations.

Vote fraud is endemic. Every few years, a story escapes into the media about a Democrat official whose home is the registered address of hundreds or thousands of absentee voters; who are either non-existent or illegal aliens. No action is taken, and the votes are counted.

Somehow, in every closely contested election of import, the Democrats [and only the Democrats] “find” cases of voted paper ballots long after the polls have been closed. Why, in the name of any random half dozen of the “Nine Billion Names of God” are there cases of paper ballots in the garages, closets, cars, and attics of Democrat election officials? And why, since there is supposed to be the equivalent of the criminal justice “chain of custody” for evidence that follows paper ballots, are they routinely allowed to be counted until enough are found to give a Democrat the victory?

Then there is the matter of the signal sent about the right to vote, by the Attorney General. The New Black Panther Party case. Uniformed NBPP thugs with weapons were intimidating whites at a polling place. If it had been KKK intimidating blacks; they would have been a legal free-fire zone. At the orders of the White House, the case was dropped after a plea bargain had been accepted by the court and they were awaiting sentencing.

But that is not all. The US Civil Rights Commission has Federal statutory authority to investigate any violation of anyone’s right to vote freely. They used their administrative subpoena authority [as they have for decades] to ask for the files on the case. Attorney General Holder has told the Civil Rights Commission that the Department of Justice internal review supercedes their statutory authority, and they can in effect fold their subpoena until it is all corners and amaze their proctologist. Vote fraud and physical intimidation by the Left are now officially protected activities.

Having grave doubts about the legitimacy of the vote count in any election conducted by Democrats is not an unreasonable position, given recent history. If the elections in 2010, or 2012 are not canceled by Scenario 2; any victory by the Democrats [especially one that does not seem rational] is going to arouse the ire of the opposition and of Oathkeepers. I’m pretty sure that your neighbors will just cheer the Democrats getting 110% of the vote.

Those are 3 scenarios, there are others, and variants on all of them. Despite how it appears, I do not think about the subject 40 hours a week. How much faith, given the fact that the Democrats and their allies further Left [as hard as that is to be] give repeated evidence that they do not accept our society’s political mores and methods, can you have that there is not someone in the White House who does put in 40+ hours a week on the subject?

Given the situation, it is apparent from the sales figures of guns and ammunition [the only growing part of our economy it seems] that a large number of people are taking the possibility seriously; thinking tactically, or perhaps operationally or strategically.

YMMV
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Ignis aurum probat, miseria fortes viros.

LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

92 Responses to “When You Eliminate The Impossible; Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be Taken Seriously.”

  1. 51
    lc purple raider says:
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    And that same election had Nixon being backed and funded by the Mafia.

    Sorry, Kennedy was the Mafia-backed candidate.

  2. 52
    LC Wil, S.C.E. says:
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    IIRC, John’s father Joe had a relationship with the mafia back to when the family was making their fortune running booze in from Caniduh during prohibition.

  3. 53
    LC Wil, S.C.E. says:
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    Sam Giancana and King Richard the First of Chicago handed the less than 9000 vote victory in Illinois to Kennedy. Richard Daley held ack the Chicago vote totals until after the rest of the state had reported so that they would know how many they needed to win. Kennedy “won” Cook County by 450,000 votes (~11 % of Chicago’s population). This was about 4 times the “victory” margin for the country as a whole.

    In Texas, vote fraud was blatant – one county (Fannin) there were 1200 more votes than registered voters. Surprisingly, this county went for Kennedy by 3 to 1. Hardly the only example. An one precinct of Angellina county, Kennedy received more votes than the adult population. When the Republican Party demanded a statewide recount, they discovered that the Elections Board of Texas (amazingly, all Democrats!) had already certified the state for Kennedy. Two days after the votes were cast.

    Apparently, the extra votes, unlike Chicago’s graveyard precincts, were undocumented mexican immigrants illegal aliens, and the most latant fraud was on the border.

    Thus began the story of ACORN . . .

  4. 54
    BigDogg says:
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    Having extensive family connections in law enforcement throughout the country, I’d have to say that it is likely that local LEOs (except in places like Chicago or NYC, possibly) would walk off the job if it entailed any sort of bullshit martial law round-ups or confiscations. Yet another thing to love about living in Texas … I have heard officers at several departments informally formulating their own “contingency” plans.

    That leaves feds (those who will participate), largely untrained brownshirt “civilian security forces”, and foreign forces available to enforce whatever the will of government is. Good luck with those numbers.

    It seems that, for the near future, investing in precious metals (copper, lead, brass) and “weather”-proofing your home are the best use of any disposable income (to the extent that any of us have any). It may be a good idea to bone up on your gardening skills, too (especially for vegetables and fruits). There’s a storm coming, and no telling how long it will last.

  5. 55
    LC Draco says:
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    There is a big misconception about the ‘martial law’ scenario. It does not mean a soldier or fire team on every corner. It means (the)….

    temporary government and control by military authorities of a territory or state, when war or overwhelming public disturbance makes the civil authorities of the region unable to enforce its law. Martial law refers to rule by the domestic army only; the rule of occupied territory by an invading army is known as military government….In the United States the federal government is limited in applying martial law by the provision of Article 1, Section 9, Subsection 2, of the Constitution, which concerns the suspension of habeas corpus. In most U.S. states, martial law may be proclaimed when deemed necessary for the public’s safety. However, the U.S. Supreme Court in ex parte Milligan (1866) ruled that military trial of civilians when the civil courts were functioning was unconstitutional. Martial law, which applies to all persons, civil and military, in the area is to be distinguished from military law, the system of rules of government applying only to those in military service.

    And..

    Temporary rule of a designated area by military authorities in time of emergency when the civil authorities are deemed unable to function. Under martial law, civil rights are usually suspended, and the activities of civil courts are restricted or supplanted entirely by military tribunals. Such “acts done by necessity” are limited only by international law and the conventions of civilized warfare. Though temporary in theory, a state of martial law may in fact continue indefinitely.

    HERE

  6. 56
    LC hilljohnny says:
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    someone needs to run with this.

  7. 57
    LC Draco says:
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    LC hilljohnny sez:

    someone needs to run with this.

    That is funny as hell. I HAD to post that to my Facebook Wall! :em02:

  8. 58
    dcs2244 says:
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    Scarey stuff. Just in time for my retirement, too, so I’ll have plenty of time to devote to cause that was formerly Lost. Hope you guys have room in Texas…I come with my very own Smith and Wesson M&P 15, and Sig P220 (and already trained!). :em02:

    All in all though, I was hoping for a quiet retirement. oh well. :em96:

  9. 59
    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion says:
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    System broke

    CNN Poll yesterday 60% were not in favor of the Hell Care Bill

    System needs reset

    It will not happen peacably

    WE OWN THIS COUNTRY !

    I mentioned it before ….. A million man 2nd Amendment Armed March….sound crazy? Think they would pay attention to that? I happen to like fire works on the 4th of July. You mass in VA which has a open carry law….. and march right on in……. bring a gas mask… and a good size camelback… things could get interesting..but instead… I think they would just shit thier fucking pants

  10. 60
    LC Xystus says:
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    Something I thought of earlier but failed to include in my previous post: Almost 30 years ago I knew a guy who claimed to have been with Special Forces in Vietnam. At one point he mentioned that the Green Berets were an item of potential concern because it seemed plausible that, in the service of some renegade leader, a few of these guys working together could take over the country! Now that “Renegade” is leader, the notion of “rogue” Special Forces fighting for the Constitution at home shines like a beacon to warm a citizen’s heart.

    LC PrimEviL:

    I have been thinking of late, that they are deliberately pushing the Country into economic crisis, with the
    attendant civil unrest. This will provide them their own “tipping point”, to declare a state of National
    Emergency…

    That would amount to pushing the reset button for us.

    Confiscation will not be the program. Anyone who owns a gun will be arrested…With that “lesson” taught, the remainder of the citizenry will roll over, and play dead, out of stark terror.

    Nowhere near as easy as that–& tyrants can’t terrorize the dead anyway.

    Prior to reading your post, acting purely on whim and instinct; I dug out my Stars ‘n’ Bars, and Confederate Irish Brigade flags, and ironed the fold wrinkles out.

    Might need to fly them soon. With intent.

    Looks as if you don’t believe such a program would work either.

    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery says:

    Local resistance won’t work, remember what happened at Waco….

    Trying that in a thousand places across the country, at around the same time, would yield different results–& the Raunch Davidiots made an unsynpathetic target anyway.

    Mudshark:

    How long before the internal enemies of this great republic institute a new “public service initiative” requiring a liberal-progressive controlled brown shirt militia to “persuade” other citizens to bow to their control?

    If creating an SS-style (black shirts, but same difference) force somehow sees approval, I think that will mean pushing our button sooner.

    LC Jon Imperial Hunter:

    Being the nasty little corrupt, power mad narcissists and unbelieving, morally bankrupt secularists that they are, the one thing they fear more than anything else is the end of their wretched lives.

    That’s just it: How many US lefties are willing to die for the cause? They can’t compete with us.

    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion:

    WE OWN THIS COUNTRY !

    I mentioned it before ….. A million man 2nd Amendment Armed March…

    I like the idea–& I could contribute up to three brothers, including one LEO, to the Empire.

  11. 61
    LC Xystus says:
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    Man, I miss the EDIT function. :em12:

  12. 62
    M167A1 says:
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    yeah, I’ve seen this movie and didn’t much care for the ending….

    Dear Comrades, here is how to conquer the United States in 5 easy steps. You will need 40 to 80 years.

    Step one: Foot in the door.
    Identify and degrade your opposition.

    This is difficult but straightforward, anyone who resists you is an enemy. How easy is that!

    Now that you know who they are, degrade their ability to politically oppose you, use slander and character assignation. Sniff out and denounce the smallest scandal or even the appearance of one. Keep rep[eating this tactic until it becomes an accepted fact. I know its harsh but after all the ends justify the means. Ideally you will be able set a tone for all discussion. This tone will favor your agenda forcing opponents to prove they are not racist/sexist/capitalist/nationalist/theist … whatever… the label isn’t important before they can even join in the debate. When they do join in call them radical and out of touch, compare them to Hitler, or some other villain. Keep repeating this, do not engage in meaningful debate as that is a point the enemy can attack. Let them chase petty accusations and slander while you assume a superior moral position.

    You should also try to do this in the media and educational system. This might speed things up considerably. Use the same tone before and hound reporters and teachers who won’t play ball right out of the system. After you set the tone of discussion you can control even if indirectly what people hear and what kids are taught. If you can keep their parent’s beliefs from taking hold or even insert a bit of doubt into the public conscience it will mean less opponents during the endgame.

    Ideally you will ultimately be able to take ownership of those things that are most valuable to Americans and use them to show how opponents aren’t the real Americans. Show people how America was meant to become what you are making it into.

    Step Two: History is calling.
    Enter and corrupt the political process. Using the tactics in step one, become an organized and legitimate part of the system. If successful you can gradually gain power until the original members of whatever group you co-opt are pushed to the side and you can use their organization for your purposes.

    Poor suckers will think it was their idea before long.

    Find interest groups that can be co-opted or that might even prove to be allies. Unions are a good place to start, you can use these to affect individual systems such as education or as cash cows, propaganda mills, and pressure groups to advance the cause.

    Once you gain a little power you can begin to use the system against itself, degrading its defenses. Use your power to defend your political cronies. Courts, laws and judges can be revised and turned against the American people. Diligent and dutiful officials, Judges and law enforcements types will be legally obliged to help you.

    Won’t they be surprised when they are up against the wall.

    The Military is likely to be a bit harder to co-opt but once in power, you can place your creatures in command. This is very disruptive to any organized resistance and they will be in the same quandary as the police… Do I obey a lawful order that’s wrong or do I risk my butt resisting it? Do I even know a lawful order? After all I went to public school. At worst they will be disorganized and demoralized. Still dangerous perhaps, but in no position to offer an alternative to the new order. They can be dealt with as a side issue. if they prove intractable you will hae to spend time developing an alternitive force for “national security”

    But if you do a good job the troops will all report to the guillotine as ordered.

    Step Three: Changing the game.
    Use what has been gained to re-write the rules to set the stage for the endgame you must tread carefully here, this will be the last time you are really vulnerable. Gather all power to you and see that your changes become permanent, use any excuse to deny your opponents the ability to reverse your gains. All those pesky guns need to go as will anyone who is too loud in their opposition. If you can eliminate these then you need fear neither principled opposition nor outright insurrection.

    Using the Constitutions clause about treaties being the “supreme law of the land” is one good way to keep vile democracy out of the picture. Another is to make people dependant on what you provide. Even if they hate you they will play ball rather than lose out on something they think is critical. If you loose elections blame any frustrations on your political opponents. Make them seem responsible for your acts.

    Remember Attack, Attack, Attack! Anyone who opposes you must be marginalized.

    Step Four: Don’t waste a crisis.
    See that you are able to stay in power permanently. Fix elections, and eventually cancel them all together, any sufficiently dire threat ought to be a good enough pretext. A foreign enemy will do but a domestic one is more useful, you can sweep up more enemies by incorporating them into the “threat” alternately a environmental or political threat may be used. Just think of something dire and take power “because you must” Once your butt is firmly on the throne you can deal with any remaining organized opponents. Take you time here, enemies still in the system should be allowed to retire. Obey the traditional forms. This will keep the people more or less complacent after all revolution is dangerous, they should be kept placid until you control everything you need.

    Step Five: BuuuuWaHaHaHaaaaa!
    Okay its time for the mask to come off. Now that everyone that could oppose you is marginalized, you can clean house. Proscribe your enemies, reward your cronies and settle all your accounts. Restructure the system to suit your ends and if the peasants don’t like it then well Mao shows us how to deal with backsliders. Expect to eliminate twenty percent of the population. Of course by now you know to eliminate the right twenty percent. Once the good ole USA is kaput the world is your oyster.

    Who would miss it any way….

  13. 63
    cbullitt says:
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    The Michael Corleone gambit is beginning to look more like the way to go.

    A few well placed rounds in a few well placed heads. OF course chaos would ensue, but the initial panic would be with them. That might be advantage enough.

  14. 64
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC Xystus sez:

    Trying that in a thousand places across the country, at around the same time, would yield different results–& the Raunch Davidiots made an unsynpathetic target anyway.

    it just might yield different results, but how is it going to go down? a house at a time? a block at a time? no unity and no structure will doom a revolt of that kind, one block at a time……history is full of examples.

    Now I for one did NOT support the Davidians or their tactics, hell the BATF used to train on the range that Koresh built on Davidian property….they could have arrested him any time then. What really concerned me was that the Army came in and destroyed the compound with armored engineering vehicles, at the behest of the federal government…..which, in my interpretation, was a direct violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.

  15. 65
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
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    LC Xystus sez:

    Something I thought of earlier but failed to include in my previous post: Almost 30 years ago I knew a guy who claimed to have been with Special Forces in Vietnam. At one point he mentioned that the Green Berets were an item of potential concern because it seemed plausible that, in the service of some renegade leader, a few of these guys working together could take over the country! Now that “Renegade” is leader, the notion of “rogue” Special Forces fighting for the Constitution at home shines like a beacon to warm a citizen’s heart.

    Back in the vile Clinton years, I used to read, and read about, an underground “Resister” movement within the Green Berets. The stuff I saw looked damned good and serious. I’ve heard lately that the “leader” was a racist and other derogatory terms. I have no way to know whether such charges are justified, but I see many reasons to believe that such a movement lives on in some form among the best educated and most motivated and capable men in the service. Likewise in the SEALs, Rangers, Marine force Recon….

    Such men do not strive and suffer merely to become the pawns of such as Obamandingo and his henchmen. They do what they do for love of country, the founding ideals, their families and fellow citizens.

    If I am wrong about this, I am better off dead anyway… but not without 100 of our enemy dead before me.

    100 heads. Each.

    Do the math.

    Fullfill your Oath.

  16. 66
    LC SleepTech:Resident Rac(ial)(ist?) Mutt says:
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    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery sez:

    LC Xystus sez:
    Trying that in a thousand places across the country, at around the same time, would yield different results–& the Raunch Davidiots made an unsynpathetic target anyway.
    it just might yield different results, but how is it going to go down? a house at a time? a block at a time? no unity and no structure will doom a revolt of that kind, one block at a time……history is full of examples.
    Now I for one did NOT support the Davidians or their tactics, hell the BATF used to train on the range that Koresh built on Davidian property….they could have arrested him any time then. What really concerned me was that the Army came in and destroyed the compound with armored engineering vehicles, at the behest of the federal government…..which, in my interpretation, was a direct violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.

    And yet some of you STILL believe that the Military (as a whole, not including any ‘Rotts’) would not swarm down upon those who would oppose the .gov?

    “The Military” has crushed, trampled, squelched and burned those that would oppoe the .gov time and again.

    I must wonder, did THOSE remember their OATHES? DID THEY!!!!!?????

  17. 67
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
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    LC SleepTech:Resident Rac(ial)(ist?) Mutt sez:

    And yet some of you STILL believe that the Military (as a whole, not including any ‘Rotts’) would not swarm down upon those who would oppose the .gov?

    “The Military” has crushed, trampled, squelched and burned those that would oppoe the .gov time and again.

    I must wonder, did THOSE remember their OATHES? DID THEY!!!!!?????

    Historical precedent notwithstanding, the American military of the present day is unlike any other in history. All volunteers, better educated than their high school classmates, with higher values of service and sacrifice, and trained and held to higher standards of performance and behavior than 90% of the rest of us, I seriously doubt that they are willing to throw down on their own people. And, if foreign forces are brought in to subjugate America…? After putting their lives on the line to free some of the most backward people on the planet from tyranny, do you think the obvious will be lost on them, that they will stand by or participate in the destruction of the last bastion on Earth of that which they were sent to defend and advance?

    As I said above, if I’m wrong about this then I am better off dead, but not before I take my one hundred enemy heads. And, If I am killed, there will be an hundred heads taken in vengeance for me. And so on.

    Do the math.

    Fulfill your Oath.

  18. 68
    LC teen, page of the empire says:
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    @ LC PrimEviL:
    I posted previously about this,

    But my high school mascot is the wolverines…

    And the overwhelming number of my fellow students (60 or so) share the Rotties’ sentiment.

    A “Glorious Peoples Revolution” or any similar socialist idealist takeover led by obamadministration would be very… fatal for any involved.

    Not that it has been brought up, but don’t lose all hope in the next generation.

  19. 69
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC Jon Imperial Hunter sez:

    Historical precedent notwithstanding, the American military of the present day is unlike any other in history. All volunteers, better educated than their high school classmates, with higher values of service and sacrifice, and trained and held to higher standards of performance and behavior than 90% of the rest of us, I seriously doubt that they are willing to throw down on their own people.

    Listen, I spent ten years working side by side with mostly Army Armor guys…..of all the people I spent field time with there is only one that I thought was completely useless. They are the finest, smartest, most dedicated people I have ever known and I love and respect them all…..this was between the years of 1988 and 1998, the military was all volunteer at that time also and supremely educated.

    it still did not stop the military from acting on orders from the CinC (the bastard Clinton) and burning down the Davidians.

    I posed a question earlier to all the military people that I know….actually more of a request….it was:

    “will you side with us?”

    I hope and believe that most would answer in the affirmative

  20. 70

    [...] this is a must read. from over at the anti idiotarian rottweiller [...]

  21. 71
    M167A1 says:
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    @ Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery:
    While I prefer your estimation..

    The military is not designed, trained or organized for a domestic conflict. Civilian control of the military is deeply ingrained and officers thought not to be politically reliable never get past field grade.

    It would be an extraordinary event to see any kind of organized opposition to the govt by the military. So long as the government is perceived to be duly constituted, I believe the military will follow all but the most egregious orders. If ordered to do something particularly terrible I suspect chaos will be the norm rather than any coherent opposition as people desert, try to frag low level officers and generally perfect their cluster f*ck skills.

    I also strongly suspect that after the general disorder in the preceding scenario that at least some politically reliable toughs might be found to fill some of the vacant organization producing something called the US Army or Marines, but resembling the SA or Waffen SS.

    Anyone remember the Bonus Army? While the situation was more ambiguous, remember that the Army once fired on its own veterans. And I believe it will do so again.

    On 28 July, 1932, The Attorney General ordered the police to expel the Bonus Army veterans from Washington DC, The veterans resisted and the DC police opened fire killing two. When told of the killings, President Hoover ordered the U.S. Army to evacuate of the Bonus Army from Washington, D.C. In fairness to Hoover it seems he wanted to control the situation before there were more deaths but the Army feared a coup.

    At 4:45 p.m., Gen. Douglas MacArthur, commanding a scratch force consisting of the 12th Infantry Regiment, and the 3rd Cavalry Regiment, supported by six tanks led by George S. Patton, formed in Pennsylvania Avenue while thousands of Civil Service employees left work to line the street and watch the U.S. Army attack its own veterans.

    The Bonus Marchers, believing the display was in their honor, cheered the troops until Maj. Patton charged the cavalry against them — an action which prompted the Civil Service employee spectators to yell, “Shame! Shame!”

    After the cavalry charge, infantry began driving the veterans out of Washington, with fixed bayonets and supported by adamsite gas. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River. President Hoover ordered the Army assault stopped, however, Gen. MacArthur—fearing that this was an attempt at overthrowing the U.S. Government—ignored the President and ordered a new attack. Hundreds of veterans were injured, anywhere from half a dozen to two dozen were killed, accounts vary and hundred of other veterans were hurt.

    Now a cabal of officers operating on a small scale could assassinate leadership and perhaps even disrupt government function. It could not hope to accomplish anything more before being destroyed.

    Alternately if a way was found by any party to create a formation that was loyal personally to a commander you could get a Marius or Sulla type figure. Sulla might actually be what the doctor ordered if he could keep pointed in the right direction.

  22. 72
    LC Thresher says:
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    @ M167A1:

    While I prefer your estimation..

    The military is not designed, trained or organized for a domestic conflict. Civilian control of the military is deeply ingrained and officers thought not to be politically reliable never get past field grade.

    It would be an extraordinary event to see any kind of organized opposition to the govt by the military. So long as the government is perceived to be duly constituted, I believe the military will follow all but the most egregious orders. If ordered to do something particularly terrible I suspect chaos will be the norm rather than any coherent opposition as people desert, try to frag low level officers and generally perfect their cluster f*ck skills.

    Read John Ringo’s The Last Centurion to see the military’s likely reaction to a fucked up domestic situation. Flag and general staff officers may be the politically reliable ones, but its the field officers that would be carrying out their orders. Convoys would break down. The “enemy” would not be found, and if found, would refuse battle. Rotary and fixed wing aircraft would experience massive and repeated mechanical failures. Tom Kratman’s A State of Disobedience is a pretty good primer on the subject too.

    Anyone remember the Bonus Army? While the situation was more ambiguous, remember that the Army once fired on its own veterans. And I believe it will do so again.

    The Bonus Army was far from ambiguous. They were pretty obviously in the wrong and led by a demagogue. It’s a bad historical example to use for the same reason that Waco is. Do we really want to use the Davidians as our martyrs? Really?

    Sulla might actually be what the doctor ordered if he could keep pointed in the right direction.

    The guy you’re looking for is another Cincinnatus.

  23. 73
    M167A1 says:
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    Cincinnatus, a paragon of civic virtue, would never make the city council here.

    His spirit is found in many people who serve their country selflessly. But our system doesn’t value virtue and selflessness as it once did. So while he is a great ideal, I don’t see a later day Cincinnatus having much effect. Except to get called a teabagging redneck on TV.

    I think an implacable SOB like Sulla is about the best that can be hoped for. The obstacles are so great you would need a Cromwell or Sulla.

    For non history geeks look to washington or perhaps Lincoln as a model for Cincinatus.

    I’m not certain who would be a good example of Sulla. Perhaps Patton crossed with equal parts Vlad Tepis and Donald Trump.

    He was an excellent general who seized power and reformed the state. His reforms were very good but he is remembered for his proscriptions (judicial murder) of most of his rivals, and their friends, and their friends and anyone with lots of money and anyone who pissed him off, and anyone who pissed his cronies off.. Once dead their property was seized and sold… hey this is expensive you know.

  24. 74
    LC Wil, S.C.E. says:
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    but he is remembered for his proscriptions (judicial murder) of most of his rivals, and their friends, and their friends and anyone with lots of money and anyone who pissed him off, and anyone who pissed his cronies off.. Once dead their property was seized and sold… hey this is expensive you know.

    . . . hmmmmmm, kinda sounds like a job for Darth Venomous . . .

    Just sayin’ is all.

    ————————

    As to the Davidians, while I agree that, overall, they make horrid examples, the object lesson is not the Davidians, but the way the all-knowing, all-seeing Gubbermint handled the case. Were it not for the pile of burned bodies, the entire process would be so over the top you couldn’t put it on as an episode of Keystone Cops.

    1) Child Abuse (alleged, and IIRC, never proven) is not within the purview of the BATF in the first place. If BATF has information to that effect, the case should have been referred to the FBI or Marshal’s Service, either of which has actual investigators on staff (or, alternatively, Tezas Child Protective Services, who’s job this would have actually been.)

    2) The County Sheriff was a friend of David Koresh, and could have arranged an appointment with him and an actual Investigative Agency.

    3) Koresh went jogging off the compound three times a week, and could have effected an arrest at any time. BATF knew this, because thay had had Koresh under surveillance for at least three months before their amaturish, made for TV, raid. ATF has a long and well documented history of playing every case for headlines, quite frequently with tragic results.

    4) The allegations of illegal weapons on the compound (rifles unlawfully modified to fully automatic) came from one source who was trying to get himself out of his own arrest. Strangely, it took three weeks after the raid, destruction and death of everyone on the compound before the first illegally modified rifle to be produced by BATF investigators – a .22 LR.

    5) The Battallion Commander that owned the modified tanks used in the raid went on record with his warnings not to use the C.S. dispensers on the tanks, as the carrier for the C.S. (C.S. is a finly divided solid, not a gas) is highly flamable. The power for the compound had been off for weeks, and everyone know the Davidians were using kerosene lamps and candles. His objections were over ridden. This was his sworn testimony to the Texas grand jury that indicted most of the BATF personnel and some of the ill named Hostage Rescue Team that was involved.

    6) The TV cameras, invited to film the raid, which was timed to be most advantageous to the camera crews and news reporters, showed the first shots were fired by FBI HRT personnel.

    Hell, you couldn’t get AlGore to believe this plot.

  25. 75
    LC Xealot says:
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    I used to think our system could be saved somehow. I no longer have this naive hope.

    Only the 1776 solution will work.

    Why do people continually think the government is the solution to life’s problems, or for that matter why do they think life SHOULDN’T have problems? Life is tough, it was meant to be or else it would just be some cosmic . Ever since creation and/or the dawn of man, governments have oppressed, stolen and intimidated people in ways individuals working alone never could. Has something happened in the last century to make governments nice and happy all of a sudden? No. In truth, we’ve had some of the worst regimes in human history in the last 100 years. I doubt any kinglet in 2000 BC could even imagine in his most vivid dreams the scale of power available to governments today.

    Government is nothing more than one group of people telling another group of people to do something on pain of death, suffering and thievery. Disguise the language all you want, delude the people into thinking it’s for their benefit all day. Maybe a lot of politicians actually believe the rhetoric they spew just by virtue of having spewed it for so long.

    Sorry to rant, but somehow free speech is about the only right still respected these days. So they let us bitch, how nice of them. I suppose they’ll get around to qualifying that too, eventually.

  26. 76
    Princess Natasha, Resident Token Anarchist says:
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    Say what you want about the military, but I, for one, will disobey orders I consider unconstitutional. I have read my Constitution, I know what’s in it. I refuse to be a “good German“. So, our homegrown fascists can go suck a gonorrheal dick. My loyalty does not lie with the assholes who delude themselves into thinking they are my “betters“. My loyalty is with the document protecting us precisely from such assholes.

  27. 77
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC Thresher sez:

    The Bonus Army was far from ambiguous. They were pretty obviously in the wrong and led by a demagogue. It’s a bad historical example to use for the same reason that Waco is. Do we really want to use the Davidians as our martyrs? Really?

    I am not a fan of MacArthur for the very reason stated….he was a demagogue and a prima donna. He was exerting his control over his troops and doing it his way, interesting thing is that his staff officers included Eisenhower and Patton.

    There is no way in hell that I want to even be remotely associated with the Davidians, they were all crazy, the biggest mistake they made was firing on BATF agents. They are not martyrs, but the fact remains that it was our military….acting on orders from the fed government….that burned them down. I don’t blame our military for following orders, and I believe that the fire was accidental….I blame a heavy handed Justice Dept under Janet Reno trying to exert their power in a blunt and very forceful way. I just feel that if I was a command level officer, I would have questioned going in there with armored CEV’s rather than just waiting and starving out the Davidians.

  28. 78
    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion says:
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    @ Princess Natasha, Resident Token Anarchist:

    When the time comes either keep your troops in quarters… or bring them to the right side. As in all conflict the innocent will die along with the guilty, there is no avoiding that, but I would prefer to not to harm as many of our brothers & sisters in uniform as possible.

    Unfortuantly… once something tries to harm me… I am required to defend myself, regardless of the offending parties motivation or the color of thier clothes.

    I know you WILL STAND TALL, LT and you have my respect for that :em04:

    Oh yeah… and dont forget to bring the goodies when you come over…. engineers have access to some really cool boom booms

  29. 79
    Reply  |  Quote

    Jaybear

    The commander of the base that provided equipment for the attack on the branch davidian complex was LIVID when he found out that he had been lied to by the FBI about drugs being present.
    That was the only way they could get that equipment, by lying.

    We’ve since found that lying to Congress isn’t a crime,, so,, lying to the military can’t even be equated to jaywalking.

    Liberal SOP.

  30. 80
    LC BU1 IMotBP says:
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    Well, I am in the same group as N@. Any order I receive that is unconstitutional is an unlawful order, by virtue of the fact that ALL LAW IN OUR NATION IS SUPPOSED TO ORIGINATE AND SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION. …Or be supported by the Constitution, six o’ one and half dozen of the other really.

    The only difference is that I am not an officer, but only a lowly First Class Petty Officer. So I give my squad the choice. Either follow that which I perceive as unlawful or follow me in resisting that which is unlawful. It will be made clear; however, if you attempt to force me to comply with an order that I see as unlawful you’re not going to be happy with the consequences.

    As to whether or not the military will assist in suppression I can only speak for those with whom I work. The majority of opinion in my det. would be against taking action against civilians. I only wish that I could say that no one in my det. would support such action, unfortunately I can’t.

  31. 81
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC Cheapshot911, Dept. of Redneck Tech sez:

    The commander of the base that provided equipment for the attack on the branch davidian complex was LIVID when he found out that he had been lied to by the FBI about drugs being present.
    That was the only way they could get that equipment, by lying.

    OK then…..that settles my mind on the matter, thank you for letting me know that.

    but that poses another unsettling thought……the govt lied to our military once to get them to do unconstitutional things, what’s to stop them from doing it again?

  32. 82
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
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    Jaybear, Colonel of Imperial Ancient Artillery sez:

    but that poses another unsettling thought……the govt lied to our military once to get them to do unconstitutional things, what’s to stop them from doing it again?

    The educated common sense of the field grade officers and below and the enlisted ranks. Do you really think that any significant number of them, especially combat troops, fail to see what obamandingo is doing to the country, or to them, personally? They know now, or will realize very soon, just how they’re being hung out to die in asscrapistan. They are intimately aware of the backstabbing by demonrats and their media lapdogs that has been going on from the very first. Remember the reception bambi got from the Marines at le Jeune (or Quantico)? They see right through that marxist muslim.

    Do you think they want to come home to an impoverished socialist hellhole, to be told to they must enslave their own families?

    Not in this decade. Which is why time is not on our side. The time is now. NOW!

    Support the mission of Oath Keepers. Get the word out to junior officers, enlisted men and law enforcement as to what their Oath actually requires them to do. Remind them it has no expiration date. Ask them to uphold and fulfill their Oath.

    Take the Oath yourselves, if you have never done so. Resolve to be among the III % who will be the first to the sound of the guns.

  33. 83
    Reply  |  Quote

    Sigh.

    I have been saying for the last few years that civil war and bloodshed is the only way to save Western Civilization from the collectivist, totalitarian leftist filth that have infected it and taken root.

    An electoral loss, if they even accept it from here on in, only holds them up in their tracks. It never stops them or turns them back. The next time they ooze and slime their way into power, they pick up exactly where they left off.

    Their programs, their power, are never unwound. Liberty stops decaying for awhile but never has the chance to recover – and while there is a complicit Republican party, it never will.

    Tell me – how many more generations do you think it will be before Liberty is lost forever? Two? Three? A whole lot fewer since the current lot socialist scum started its destruction? And like it or not, it again falls on you, my American brothers and sisters, to do the heavy lifting.

    I have said before that liberty is dying here and in the end that doesn’t really matter. As long as the flame of Liberty burns in the United States, there is the chance for it to be reignited elsewhere. But if it dies there, it will slowly burn out everywhere else.

    It is no secret I want over to the US – the one place where Liberty’s flame burns(ed?) brightest. I want that liberty for myself and more to the point, one day for my children. I have pretty much committed my life to emigrating. I have looked at every legal means, and have quit my job and gone back to university to change careers for the express purpose of emigrating to the US. I want over no matter what I have to do – either to get there or what I have to do when I am there to keep that liberty for myself and my progeny.

    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

    For too long it has been only the patriots who have paid that price. Time to make the tyrants pay their due.

    And if we have a choice to do it ourselves or leave it for our children and grand children to do (assuming liberty actually survives that long) I know I would rather spare future generations what we must do.

    I did have a point to all this but fuck it – I need a drink. It is coming, and if it isn’t, it needs to. I’ll be joining it as soon as I can.

  34. 84
    LC Thresher says:
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    @ LC & IB Tiberius:

    It doesn’t require a whole lot of people to instill Liberty in a nation. By the end of the War for Independence, there were more Americans fighting for the Crown than against. The Cause was never supported by more than a third of the populous, only 1/10th actively did anything, and only 3% fought.

    But we’re not quite at the point where we can shoot the bastards (well… not openly. If someone wanted to arrange an “accident” for the likes of Murtha, fine by me…). We can still change things through the electoral process. Yes, it’ll be hard, and yeah, the process is imperfect and subject to tampering and fraud (but only within certain parameters).

    But the right, tenacious, hard-bitten, charismatic, virtuous leader in the Presidency, armed with an audacity fueled by a love for American and her Constitution, could do a LOT to not just slow the advance of the totalitarian socialist Left, but actually reverse it. Mix in the right leaders in Congress (whom it will be our responsibilities to install) and we could potentially melt away all the damage of the last 100 years in a single election cycle. On the political front at least. Conservatives will have to start our own march through the institutions to reclaim the education and entertainment industries.

    Pursuant to the above, is why I’m supporting Sarah Palin in 2012. If she ain’t running, we’re gonna fuckin’ draft her.

  35. 85
    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion says:
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    Unfortunatly Thresher I disagree with your optimism regarding the time frame of a election cycle being able to repair the damage done. The real problem lies with the establsihment of a professional politcial class, where we see political “families”. That is the foundation of the problem and until this is corrected we will continue to see the perversion and decline of the “American Way.”

    In regards to Mrs. Palin, I’m not even conidering that election until after the 2010. That election is going to determine many things.

    But regardless, what we must have to survive is for the Pols to recieve some re-inforcement of the concept that THEY SERVE US.

    How in the FUCK can they try to pass legislation that is considered not wanted by 60% of the population? I know they watch the polls, you know they watch the polls, but yet they continue. What does that say? This whole concept of pork in the legislation to gain a paticular representatives vote is absolutly insane. When voting on matters crucial to the nation, I EXPECT these fuckers to be honorable and vote in the interest of the NATION…. not thier political careers (see above) or special “perks” for thier states….. In order to get the vote from the Michigan and Vermont these two states are now exempt from tax, while everyone else has to pay…….. you wanna talk ‘fair”, “equal”? How in the fuck is this considered OK… to anyone with a shred of self respect?

    Fook the cork soakers…. time to purge & reset……. and take care of the equally dishonorable MSM…. thier lies of omission, thier deliberate “spin”. I AM DONE WIH THIS SHIT. I am training and training my son for the inevitable conflict….. because thats the ONLY way things are going to change. And guess what, I aint to fucking happy about that either. I was kinda hoping to relax a bit at this stage of the game and enjoy watching my sons development…… Now it looks as if Im going to have to risk my life (again) and that of my Sons ….. and why? Cause we dont even have our shit together enough to properly vet a Presidential candidate much less keep an eye on a 100 other fuckers.

    Im done …game over….. GUILLOTINE!

  36. 86
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
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    LC & IB Tiberius sez:

    I have said before that liberty is dying here and in the end that doesn’t really matter. As long as the flame of Liberty burns in the United States, there is the chance for it to be reignited elsewhere. But if it dies there, it will slowly burn out everywhere else.

    (Emp. mine.)

    I cannot count the number of the times I have spoken and written that very thought, here and elsewhere, and for several years now. LC & IB Tiberius sez:

    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

    For too long it has been only the patriots who have paid that price. Time to make the tyrants pay their due.

    Absolutely.

    LC & IB Tiberius sez:

    And if we have a choice to do it ourselves or leave it for our children and grand children to do (assuming liberty actually survives that long) I know I would rather spare future generations what we must do.

    There will not be another chance. Any father, grandfather or uncle, or their spouses, who thinks they can leave this to the future are in serious denial and cowards as well.
    LC & IB Tiberius sez:

    It is no secret I want over to the US – the one place where Liberty’s flame burns(ed?) brightest. I want that liberty for myself and more to the point, one day for my children.

    Good luck and hurry it up will you? There are not enough native Americans with your sense of Liberty and determination. We need you and all like you.

    LC Thresher sez:

    We can still change things through the electoral process. Yes, it’ll be hard, and yeah, the process is imperfect and subject to tampering and fraud (but only within certain parameters).

    I regret to say that I believe that that train left the station quite some time ago. I would be happy to be proven wrong and I still have a faint hope that Sarah Palin might yet ignite a people’s electoral revolt that would spare us civil war. But… as I said faint hope. Even if she were to be elected…

    LC & IB Tiberius sez:

    An electoral loss, if they even accept it from here on in, only holds them up in their tracks. It never stops them or turns them back. The next time they ooze and slime their way into power, they pick up exactly where they left off.

    As for the rest…

    WHAT TROY SAID!!!

    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion sez:

    I AM DONE WIH THIS SHIT.

    I’m done …game over….. GUILLOTINE!

    Jon

    III%

    Lead follow or get the Hell out of the way!

  37. 87
    expatchris says:
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    Acorn is vulnerable to their own tactics, shoot a few of them, put some in the ICU and the rest will run away because they are cowards. They would make the first tyrant blood spilt, might as well be usefull.

  38. 88
    Reply  |  Quote

    Thanks John.

    Start stockpiling on my behalf. I’ll be good for it as soon my feet touch ground :em93:

    I do hope you are right, Thresher. I want to be able to get off the plane and just live my life and start a family and enjoy the liberty I seek, not to have to worry about what bloodshed will be needed to secure the liberty I have uprooted my life and flown halfway across the world for. But I don’t have your optimism. I don’t see any other way to turn back the tide.

    But we can worry about that another day.

    For now, Merry Christmas to you all and here’s hoping for a rebirth of liberty in 2010.

  39. 89
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
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    LC & IB Tiberius sez:

    Thanks John.

    Start stockpiling on my behalf. I’ll be good for it as soon my feet touch ground :em93:

    I’ve been cultivating subsistence survival skills for thirty five + years. I have lived that very life. I do not want to see that as the future of this Nation, but rather that than the socialist nightmare the obastards have in mind.

    I have the much of the knowledge and many of the skills, stockpiles maybe not so much. But anyone landing on these shores ready, willing and able to fight for Liberty can count on my support. Hell, we need your support!

    Jon

    III

  40. 90
    expatchris says:
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    Im 2 hours north of Toronto, if it gets to that stage give me an email with directions!
    Happy Christmas

  41. 91
    LC Stargazer says:
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    Cannon Fodder sez:

    Damnit! You have tweaked my noodle! What is that ONE word?!?!?

    i believe it was “unanimous”

    My money is on ‘informed’.

  42. 92

    [...] it’s political suicide and that they’ll be crushed in the 2010 and 2012 elections. That assumes there will be elections. With an international police force operating within our country without any domestic [...]



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