...2009 Archives...

Darth Venomous has an open thread below and it was mentioned in the comments that Senator Ben Nelson [D/hypocrite-Nebraska] had rolled over for the nationalization of the health care system. His prior pro-life scruples vanished in a haze of earmark payoffs. I commented about his political future, and the future of the health care system when this kicks in. I also mentioned getting clearance from Misha to post something about the possibility of Democrats’ next political step. This is not what I need to ask Misha about. This covers the health care system, and what we are about to lose.

Some of you know that I put out an email newsletter. It has been on hiatus for most of the year, except for the odd edition, because I am taking care of a daughter who had an encounter with necrotizing fasciitis. I turn up in blogs to take care of my writing jones.

I am going to quote from two editions from back in 2006, where medical care was the center of attention. We almost lost one of our family, who I mentioned in the Open Thread. He was saved by both a miracle and a quality of care that no bureaucrat cares to deliver. I also mention my daughter’s encounter with the Brit NHS, which I have laid out here before.

I am a wordy bugger, as you well know. It holds in my own newsletter too. Bear with me, if you will. The journey will, I hope, be rewarded.

First, what came out as the “Miracles and Wonders” edition:

This is the age of miracles and wonders.

I know that it is not my line, but it seems to match our lives. Miracles and Wonders. What a time.

We have become used to medical miracles. We think that anything can be cured, and we are then so shocked when Death triumphs. But there are limits to what medicine can do. Thankfully, there are miracles, and there are wonders.

I have just come back from two days at Sky Ridge Medical Center, where we spent the time with Spike.

Miracles and Wonders.

Last Monday, he suffered a total pulmonary collapse while being driven to Denver. Coming down the mountain, they stopped at the Sedalia Fire Station. Our nephew, Josh [Patty's son] is an EMT/Firefighter there and saved his life by buying him 8 minutes. There is a story which I won’t go into, but let there be no doubt that he is not the kid I watched grow up. He is now a man.

Miracles and Wonders.

Just as the ambulance got to the ER, they lost Spike. CORE-ZERO, Code Blue, whichever phrase they use for cardiac arrest. Those 8 minutes meant his life. 8 minutes would have meant that it would have happened on Interstate 25 instead of in a fully equipped Emergency Room that was ready and waiting for him.

They brought him back, and took him to the ICU, pouring antibiotics into him. His lungs were locked up with pneumonia, the pneumonia that the VA had overlooked. His eyes were fixed and dilated. The gaze of a sojourner to that land from which none return. And the doctors were sure that he would not last the night. They gave him less than a 5% chance of making it that long. Jeff was met by that ominous line up in a hospital, standing side by side; Doctor, Chaplain, Social Worker. Yeah, we’ve seen that before.

Miracles and Wonders.

They did not know of the miracle and wonder, and steely determination that is our family; especially Patty. Patty, and Jeff, and Josh, and Lina, and Chris, and Erin, and Genia and Genia’s daughter Katy. And that was just the first wave. All night, they talked, they cajoled, they supported; they would not let him go. They bound him with chains of love to this world. The doctors said he would die. He stayed alive. The doctors said that the movements that they saw in response to their questions were just involuntary reflexes. They did not believe.

And come the morning, he was still there. Come the morning, his eyes were no longer fixed and dilated. And come the morning, he tried to sit up and speak [couldn't because of the ventilator airway].

Miracles and Wonders.

As more family arrived, and expressed their love and determination that he would not die, he got stronger. Even under sedation, he reacted to what was said. And he got stronger. By Thursday, his lungs began to clear, his white count started coming down, and they began weaning him from the respirator and the sedation. His grown sons from his first marriage were there. And the weight began lifting from us all.

We got there Friday morning. I think the hospital is ……. bemused …… by the phenomenon that is our Clan. I think it is that so many die alone, so many families are numbed by shock; that they are not used to seeing a family that does not give up on its own. They allowed us up to 12 at a time in ICU, because they realized that whatever we were doing, it worked.

Miracles and Wonders.

Karla, and I got there Friday, and despite having been the one to try to prepare everyone for what he would look like, my first thought was that he looked like hell. We took over in the room, while those who had been up all night were grabbing some food and some sleep. I looked at the readouts, to see what his status was, and while I have seen a lot better, I have seen a lot worse. Good O2 saturation, pulse, respiration, CVP; EKG looked hinky with intermittent PVC’s and sinus bradycardia, but things were working. When he awoke a little, he could respond with small nods or shakes of his head. His eyes would open and you could tell that he was still in there. So we took turns, when he was awake, talking to him, reading to him, keeping him focused on our world. We were joined by some cousins whom Spike had not seen for years, and we kept with him when he awoke. As the day went on, he seemed to become stronger with each hour.

In the evening, after they had gotten some rest, we were joined by Patty, most of the local members of the family, and another miracle. Spike has been married three times. We met him when he was on his second marriage with Barb, and had never met his ex or his two now grown sons. His sons, whom he had been estranged from for a long, long time, came. They came expecting to have to do the all too common duty of ordering the plug pulled. Instead they found that Spike was not alone, was being cared for by a rather large family who they had known nothing about, and they were both taken aback and amazed. And they fit right in.

What sons! We jokingly referred to them as “The Boys”, but they are fully grown men in their 30’s with families of their own. God, they are sons to be proud of. These are good people, squared away, heads and hearts in the right place. And you know. The estrangement is over. Spike has his sons again, and they have a dad. [and incidentally, Katy has been "adopted" and now has two "Big Brothers"].

Friday, as Spike became stronger and more aware our hardest problem became the ventilator tube; that kept him breathing but also kept him from talking. He wanted to talk, especially when his sons Glen and Will came in. It took some patience to keep him from trying to take it out. He was not ready. They were weaning him off of it, but not till Saturday at the earliest. We left Glen, Will, Josh, Genia and Katy on the late shift, and went to get some sleep. Early Saturday morning we found all the above exhausted from being up all night, but that morning the doctors had ordered the ventilator tube removed.

Spike’s first words were a hoarse croak, “My boys, my boys”.

We knew his body was on the mend, but we were worried that there was neuro damage from the lack of oxygen. A little later that day, we got the results of one of the strangest neuro function tests that I have ever heard.

I’ve mentioned that Spike is a performer at heart, and sings some rather obscure songs. There is also the odd poem or two. He is partial to the works of Robert Service, who wrote of the Alaskan gold rush. Most people have only heard of one of his many poems, “The Cremation of Sam McGee”. I had brought my copy of the collected works of Service, and among the things I was reading to him was, the “The Cremation of Sam McGee”. Early Saturday afternoon I mentioned that I had been reading to him, and that was one of the poems. He looked at me, and then began reciting the thing from memory, with expression and feeling [albeit somewhat dimmed by the fact that he was croaking more than a bit], just like he did when he was performing it. All four printed pages worth. Genia came in partway through, and all she could do was stand there, just out of his line of sight, smiling and tearing up. Yeah, Spike had come through it all right.

From that point on, our corner of the ICU Waiting Room became a celebration instead of a death watch. From Monday on, we had been preparing ourselves to suffer a loss of one of our own, and to be holding a Wake in his memory. Instead, our family had grown, and Spike had his sons back again.

Four days. They are talking about trying to release him in 4 days.

The doctors, the nurses, and even the Chaplain keep using the word “miracle”. It gives every sign of being that. It was a miracle aided by some of the finest medical care I have ever seen. I will speak more of Sky Ridge Medical Center, perhaps tomorrow.

We are home now, with lighter hearts.

Miracles and Wonders, indeed. Medical science is a wonder, but it has its limits. And beyond those limits is the realm of miracles. The doctors gave up. Our family, our Clan, didn’t. Patty, our dear Patty, was there first

    and is not one to be trifled with

. She will wrestle with Death itself if need be, to protect our own. As will they all. And they did. And I am so proud to be related to them.

But they did not do it alone. I, and they, called for help. And from the response we got, and from the effect that we got; yeah my family got that help. In spades. It may have been a quiet thought in the darkest hours of the night. It may have been the lighting of candles or Joss sticks. It could have been an offering up of a mass. Or maybe it was just the calling of good hearts to another whose time was not yet over.

There are things that go beyond that which we think we know. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” The doctors had all but given up, and yet something helped us hold fast to Spike and bring him home. I don’t think that it was all us. There was more, and it was felt by all of us. It lifted us up, and once he could understand it lifted Spike up too. And I do not think that it would have been possible without those who I am honored to call my Gentle Readers.

You are Miracles, and you are Wonders. And we are grateful.

And now that the scene is set, here is what I wrote the next day; describing the medical care and the hospital. And when you read this, remember, this cruel, evil, heartless, Kulak private purveyor of medical care accepted the pittance that the VA kicked in as payment in full.

I have redacted the name of a former employer in this repost.

1) In the Miracles and Wonders edition I said that I would return to the topic of Sky Ridge Medical Center.

What can I say? Well, it is the newest hospital in metro Denver [although technically I think it might be in Douglas County] and it is unlike any hospital I have ever seen. And I remind the Gentle Readers that before I became employed by the Sovereign State of Colorado; I spent a number of years as Field Supervisor, Training Officer, Bomb Search Officer and general dogsbody for the [ name redacted] Security Department. [redacted], which was owned by the private hospitals themselves, is now called [redacted]; and at the time I was working for them had 17 hospitals in their system. I had to know all of them, intimately, all three shifts; as well as knowing my own home base hospitals of St. Joseph’s and St. Lukes. Yeah, I know a wee bit about hospitals.

When you walk in, you think that you are in a luxury hotel. Damn, they take care of patients and their visitors, well. And they take care of their employees. That is one reason that the patients get such good care.

In the ICU, which is all I saw, but I heard about the regular rooms; the place defines “state of the art”. Everything seems to be datalinked to a fare thee well. I speak Medical. The Gentle Readers will remember that we have spent more time in ICU’s than most people ever do in the last few years. There were things there that I couldn’t figure out at first glance. Even the displays and diagnostic readouts I did understand, were amazingly modern.

I noted the staffing. Here at home, there are 8 beds in our hospital’s ICU. When all 8 beds are filled, they may have 3 nurses assigned to the unit. They are running their butts off trying to get things done. I did not go through the entire ICU at Sky Ridge, but it was big [more on that later]. From the look of things, they staff one nurse per patient, with nurses seeming to be partners; i.e. two nurses will have neighboring patients and they will help each other for the things that require more than one person. [UPDATE add a couple of extra ICU floater nurses per shift to that count]

With so many nurses, it is easy to seem not rushed and more competent. Yet, I really had the feeling that these were the cream of the nurses in the area.

The rooms. ICU rooms in most hospitals are small and cramped. There is barely room for a chair or two alongside the bed and IV’s. At Sky Ridge, the rooms are bloody huge. There is room to move around, to sit, to stand, room for your things. I mentioned that they allowed up to 12 of us at a time [usually we had 4-5 at a time there during the day.]. There was that much room. And yes, while our family was not considered the normal group; they have a philosophy that the “support system” is vital to recovery. They want the family there. In Spike’s case, our presence was vital to holding him here. The nurses and the hospital understand. Now, mind you, it helps that we do know how to be relatively well mannered when necessary, and that we have a bunch of EMT’s, nurses, and medical people in the family [although by the time it was over, even Katy who is a high school student was explaining what was what to visitors]; but they believe in having the family there, wholeheartedly.

I was told that the regular rooms are just as spacious, because they are all singles. They believe that single rooms promote faster recovery than having 1 or 3 roommates who are also sick. Each room has a futon couch that folds out into a bed, so at any time your friends or family can stay. Once you are in a regular room, you can eat on a regular schedule, but also can order from [get this] room service, within medical dietary restrictions [can't order a steak if you are on clear liquids], because they think it speeds recovery. And for a really minimal cost, your family and visitors can eat from room service with you.

They have a hospital concierge! Visitors and families frequently are from out of town and strangers to the area. Guess what? If you need something, the concierge will help you get it, at no additional cost. The idea is to concentrate on recovering health instead of worrying about where to do laundry.

Morale. Hospital work is drudgery. And it shows on at least some of the staff in every other hospital I have seen. Literally every hospital employee I saw at Sky Ridge seemed glad to be working there. Even in the hospital cafeteria [and you would not believe the cafeteria, the quality and variety of the food, or the ambiance.] I was talking to a young woman who was at a station cooking one of the daily specials to order. You could hear and see the pride in her voice and manner as she talked about the new state of the art cardiac care center they had built. She was a cook, and yet the patient care team was something she felt she was part of. Damn.

I grant that the quality of the workplace is also a tool for attracting and holding the best staff, but it seems to be working.

They only have their Level III Trauma certification [working on II]; so I will agree with Jeff. If I am hurt, shot, stabbed or squashed, send me to Denver General where they do Trauma. But if I am sick, send me to Sky Ridge.

Now there is a reason that I list all of these. Sky Ridge is a private hospital. While like all American medicine it is tied to the government with red tape, it is private. And it is quality.

Name me one government agency hospital for civilians that is known for quality.

OK, time’s up.

Spike almost died, in large part because the VA could not recognize pneumonia on an examination. For those who aren’t medical, there are classic sounds in a stethoscopic examination of the lungs. If you hear what sounds like crackling cellophane in a bunch of fields in the lungs, you want an x-ray now, because y’all got pneumonia present. The VA is, like all civilian government medical systems [and admittedly some military] real heavy on Chairborne Commandos and Admin types, and the actual patient care people are kind of a budgetary afterthought. That tends to attract those who are not the “best and brightest”.

I remember that when Ceilidh was in Britain; she got a close up look at government medicine. Chelsea and Westminster Hospital is one of the newest and most modern in Britain. It is in Kensington, which is the neighborhood where there are two royal palaces and the upscale Brits live. While the Royals don’t go there, those who are immediate hangers on probably do.

Their wards are open bays like old style barracks. Their nursing staff is a) desperately short-handed, and b) handicapped by the detail that many do not speak English. While she was there after clearing their ICU, due to a total lack of beds in female wards, they placed her in a male [largely geriatric] ward. She watched two old men murdered by the medical staff, because it was cheaper to do so. I use that word with specific intent. In this country I would want to slap cuffs on a whole bunch of people. I would be tempted to make them need medical care themselves by the time we got them to a cell.

In the bed next to her, there was a man on a respirator, similar to but probably a lot more primitive than the one that kept Spike alive. A doctor with a covey of hangers-on came up to his bed and told the man; “You are not likely to recover if we put you in ICU, and you have no family to take care of you if we send you home. So we are going to have to turn off your respirator. You’ll be dead in about 2 hours.”. And he did, right then, reach over and turn off the respirator. And with the man fighting desperately for his life to stop them, they forcefully removed the ventilator tube. Then they left. For the next couple of hours Ceilidh and the entire ward listened and watched as the man slowly suffocated. The chilling thing is that it apparently was considered normal.

In the bed across the aisle was an old man who was wheezing away. He had had a broken hip. In the British satrapy of the EU, in the realm of the Lord Protector, there is a waiting list of a couple of years for the surgery to repair a broken hip. While you are waiting, you are bedridden at home and in pain. Most do not survive the wait. This man had. The man’s wife, who sat at his side all day, told Ceilidh the story.

In the middle of the surgery, the anesthesiologist had let him come up too far, and his gag reflex had kicked in. He vomited, and aspirated the vomitus. Thus, aspiration pneumonia. Treatable, but not easily or cheaply. So they were letting him lay there and die in a regular ward, unattended. Later, in the middle of the night, he had sat up, the noise waking Ceilidh, and had stared her in the eyes gasping out, “I’m dying!”. He then fell back on the bed. He did not die right then [the next day he did], but that convinced Ceilidh to check out of the hospital and get back to the University’s London Centre.

The complaints about the abattoir that is the British National Health Service are endemic. That year [ when Ceilidh was there ] in their budget; Lord Protector Blair “fixed” the system the same way that Bush and Congress want to fix the border. They promised to hire another 120 doctors and nurses, nationwide. And another 2000 administrators to watch over them and “remove inefficiencies”.

Just a few weeks ago, I linked in GLEANINGS to a report that Britain was about to cease treating premature babies, because it took too many resources for a single patient. It is easier and cheaper to let the babies die.

Across the Channel, in Belgium and the Netherlands, euthanasia, involuntary euthanasia, is now the norm to reduce medical costs. In Canada, people die on gurneys in the hallways waiting for days for hospital beds. Their vaunted medical system only keeps on semi-functioning because those who can afford it come to the United States. It is so bad that even their ultra-liberal courts have ruled that in Quebec the conditions of their medical system constitute a violation of their constitution.

Yet, the American Left insists that having the government take total control of the medical system is the only “fair” and “cost efficient” way of doing medicine.

Let us go back to Spike’s experience at Sky Ridge. He is a grizzled old fart. He has both age and mileage working against him. He is not rich. Sky Ridge was the closest [thankfully] hospital when he went down. He is under the VA system, which means what little recompense that the hospital gets is going to come from them, and from Medicaid.

Yet, he got the same care in the ICU that Bill Gates would have gotten there. They busted their butts to save someone that under the Brit, Canadian, Belgian, or Dutch system [or Hillary Care with its boards to determine if it someone was socially valuable enough to be treated once they were 40 years old] would have been left to die or actively killed for the good of the system.

The difference is something that shows we are doing something very right.

A thought occurred to me, while in the ICU with Spike. When archeologists dig up the remains of early man; one of the markers as to when we became “human” is in the graves. There is a level when they start finding graves, lovingly made, of individuals who were old, or crippled, and who had to have been cared for by others even when they could not care for themselves for a long period of time. That care, that compassion, that willingness to protect the most vulnerable, is one of the things that separates us from pack animals.

Places like Sky Ridge exemplify the best of the human in us. Europe and Canada are being reduced to animals.
There are those in this country who would bring out the animal in us.

If we are to be reduced to animals, let us be Sheepdogs, and let us deal with the Leftist Wolves.

LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

40 Responses to “Life is cheap when you are a Democrat.”

  1. 1
    LCBrendan says:
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    because I am taking care of a daughter who had an encounter with necrotizing fasciitis.

    SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Give her a HUGE hug for me, please. :(

  2. 2
    LC Roguetek says:
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    but not too hard, something might fall off.

    I kid. it’s my reply to tragedy.

  3. 3
    LC Old Dog says:
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    That Lord Pao An sums it up pretty well. Real humans care for the old and weak.

    This is why I refuse to classify Progressives as human, they are predators and I will protect my own!

    :em04: :em96:

  4. 4
    LC HJ Caveman82952 says:
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    What a monstrous sickness, Subotai. I am so glad it didn’t succeed in taking a loved one. I too, believe the quality of care, not to mention the haste, saved my wifes life. For as the head nurse told me, and this might blow a lot of lefty minds. These people are human beings, with feelings, fears, hopes and loves. They are scared, in pain and often lonely. They are our customers……..and someones friend, wife, husband, father, mother, son or daughter. You treat them as you would your own.
    This came from the head nurse there, a gal with twenty-five years on the job. She chewed out some doctors ass for what she felt was mistreating a patient, then ratted him out to the director. The problem was soon resolved. And this woman treated Mary during her bone marrow transplant.
    Customer service you can bet your life on……

  5. 5
    LC FreedomFighter says:
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    Well it’s just another nail in the coffin of America. And one step closer to revolt.

  6. 6
    LC Thresher says:
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    When my Dad went down last Fall with a heart attack (two clogged arteries; one 75%, the other 90%, and an ejection fraction in the low 40s), he was rushed to Mercy Medical Center (a great Catholic hospital in downtown Des Moines, IA), and admitted into their wonderful Cardiac Intensive Care Unit (CICU). I received a call from my Dad around 5:00 PM, just as he was being wheeled out of the ER into CICU, and by the time I arrived at Mercy at 9:00 PM he was out of surgery and coming out of anesthesia.

    The rooms were very spacious, just like at Sky Ridge (though without the futon/bed for family, they had a different philosophy on recovery I guess). State of the art monitoring and life support gear. Nurses walked around with tablet PCs that were linked to their patients. It felt like something out of Star Trek.

  7. 7
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
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    Subotai, Sir, you continue to amaze. I only wish that those posts could be read by every last sentient human in America. All 20 million of them. Or am I being too optimistic?

    My very best wishes to your daughter, and to all of us who must bear the coming burden.

    Jon

    III

  8. 8
    LC Getalis, Imperial Czar of Pharmacology says:
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    LC Thresher sez:

    When my Dad went down last Fall with a heart attack (two clogged arteries; one 75%, the other 90%, and an ejection fraction in the low 40s), he was rushed to Mercy Medical Center (a great Catholic hospital in downtown Des Moines, IA),

    I haven’t been to Des Moines in ages. Is Pei’s Mandarin still up-and-running?

  9. 9
    Reply  |  Quote

    I also mentioned getting clearance from Misha to post something about the possibility of Democrats’ next political step. This is not what I need to ask Misha about. This covers the health care system, and what we are about to lose.

    As one of those Democrats, I can pretty much tell you what a LOT of us are probably going to do — turn our backs on the incumbent Dems.

    If we can’t find new, fresh candidates of ANY particular stripe willing to go in and CHANGE our legislative branch, then we will simply stay home.

    Here is MY take on all of this (and I think I said it before):

    I no longer care about the issues. I do, but suddenly they’ve become a distant second to THE MOST important thing — cleaning out the Business As Usual atmosphere found in our Legislative Branch.

    This isn’t a “Left/Right” issue, this is a RIGHT/WRONG thing. Congress is made up of worms on BOTH sides of the aisle, and they ALL have their hands in the same holey pockets to give hand-jobs to the corporate lobbyists in exchange for the money and blessing to run for the NEXT term in office.

    The fuckweasles on YOUR side tell you exactly what the fuckweasles on OUR side tell us: What we want to hear, in exchange for our vote. Once they are elected, they follow the ones who paid their freight to get there.

    I’ll give you a hint — it isn’t you or I.

    I can live with losing an issue or contest over ideology — as long as it is the will of the people as demonstrated by the feelings of the majority. But over the past twenty-something years, that hasn’t been happening. Citibank and Wellpoint shouldn’t have more clout and influence than you and I together or separately. Neither should the Church, Moveon, PACs, Unions, and other organizations. It is supposed to be one man, one vote, NOT whoever spends the most money to someone looking to stay in the position of power.

    Think about this for a moment… Can you think of one piece of legislation in the past twenty years that really had a positive benefit for WE, THE PEOPLE and written specifically for us in mind? If you look closer, you will find that if there was any benefit for us, it was minor compared to what the corporate entities got out of it. That is because most legislation is written to benefit corporations and any thing we receive is almost accidental.

    The Great Health Care Debacle of 2009 is just a perfect example of what is wrong with our Legislative Branch. The end result is exactly what the Republicans would have come up with initially if they had been in power. The only benefactors of this bill will be the insurance and pharma companies. Republicans can claim the high road because they get to “oppose” it while hoping it really passes. Democrats can pass it by blaming it on not having enough votes to clear a threatened filibuster — and then hope that their base “understands” that it was those big meanies on the Right that made it impossible to pass something that most people wanted in the first place.

    If you step back, pay attention, but not take sides in the issue, you can see exactly how we were all played. And we have all been played over and over again because we spend too much time yelling at each other from our bunkers and not stepping back to see the entire story.

    There is no real difference between the Washington politicians. Sure, in front of a camera or interviewed in a press conference, they are all playing their parts, but at the end of the day they are all just looking out for one thing — themselves.

    I heard someone the other day refer to the Senate as a “club”, with its “traditions” that have to be followed.

    WTF. The very materials that building is made out of, all the way down to the seats they plant their ample asses in, the pens, the paper and even the fucking paper clips belong to “WE THE PISSED OFF PEOPLE”. Club, Schlub. Those stodgy old men and a few old women with a couple of token blacks thrown in are there to do the PEOPLE’S business. After all, according to our Constitution, our government is really WE, THOSE PISSED OFF PEOPLE. It isn’t a fucking “club”, and I could give a holy fuck about its “traditions”.

    One of the major problems I see with the Senate is the use of the archaec filibuster. We already have one branch of our government that is undemocratic by design, and that is the Judicial Branch. We don’t need another one. We shouldn’t have to have a super majority to pass any type of legislation.

    Elections have consequences. If you are uncomfortable with a simple majority passing laws — then vote enough people in office to change the majority. Right now, it takes sixty percent of the Senate to vote on virtually everything. Sixty percent of the people didn’t vote for the makeup of the Senate — only a majority of the people decided what the makeup of our Legislative branch was to be.

    Now, a lot of you that were here back in 2005 remember that I was against the “Nuclear Option” proposal when it came to the judicial nominations. In retrospect, I was wrong. The Republcians SHOULD have gone nuclear then and blown up the filibuster once and for all. Sure, for the short term a lot of stuff those of us on the Left didn’t like would have gotten passed. But that would have made all subsequental elections more important. There would be more accountability on BOTH sides if each Senator had to be held to his or her vote. We would have had a totally different crop of Senators in power now — ones that ALL of us could probably accept and approve of.

    I personally think there should be a truce amongst voters for the next six years and see if we can field candidates who will only concentrate on fixing Congress itself. That means putting all ideological items on hold for at least a term, and devoting ALL of its energy into changing rules, putting in place term limits (which I suspect will require a Constitutional amendment) and putting the PEOPLE back in power by “de-humanizing” corporations and their money influence on our government.

    Right now people on both the Right and the Left are pretty damn close together on this. We ALL are recognizing that the corruption of our government is high and what is ultimately causing it. I think what we will find is that after all is cleaned up and set right again, the huge gulf that currently exists between the Left and the Right won’t be that far.

  10. 10
    Asperity says:
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    I actually agree with most of that Deej. There is (basically) the left, the right, and the career politicians. I am in full support of getting rid of the latter first, then getting back to the disagreements between the former.

  11. 11
    LC Xystus says:
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    Most people have only heard of one of his many poems, “The Cremation of Sam McGee”.

    I grew up, instead, with my dad’s barbershop quartet singing a work based on “The Shooting of Dan McGrew.” Didn’t realize what a travesty their song was till finding the original years later (in the library of old Kalispell AFB). But when I think of “Cremation,” I tend to recall a recitation I once heard on radio done in a Lazslo Lœwenstein (aka Peter Lorre) impression. :em02: I believe Service also wrote a poem about kilts, which was once posted in my defunct band’s old classroom.

  12. 12
    sleeper says:
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    @ DJ Allyn, ITW:

    This isn’t a “Left/Right” issue, this is a RIGHT/WRONG thing. Congress is made up of worms on BOTH sides of the aisle, and they ALL have their hands in the same holey pockets to give hand-jobs to the corporate lobbyists in exchange for the money and blessing to run for the NEXT term in office.

    TESTIFY!

    To really get this done, the sixteenth and seventeenth amendments have got to go. This won’t happen as a result of federal action, the states have to do it.

    Cut off their money and their tenure and it gets a lot better.

  13. 13

    [...] The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler mentions that life is cheap when one is a Democrat [...]

  14. 14
    LC PrimEviL says:
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    Medicare consistently denies more claims than private insurers.

  15. 15
    sleeper says:
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    @ DJ Allyn, ITW:
    Here’s another point you touched on that I blipped over the first read (and you are being remarkably lucid today)…

    The whole 60 votes to end debate and 51 to actually pass legislation is a trick to which the public is getting increasingly wise. The democrats (this time) get to innocently claim “what’s wrong with an up-or-down vote?”, and then have a few ‘vulnerable’ democrats vote no on final passage so they can keep their jobs next election. I’m looking at you, Claire McCaskill.

    The cloture vote is the real vote.

    The federal government is too large, and too powerful. And way too corrupt. It gots to go.

  16. 16
    LC Don_M says:
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    LC Old Dog sez:

    This is why I refuse to classify Progressives as human, they are predators and I will protect my own!

    It’s also why I refuse to call them anything other than what they are: Regressives. Eric Arthur Blair had the lot of them pegged six decades ago:

    “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face — forever.”

  17. 17
    Reply  |  Quote

    sleeper sez:

    The whole 60 votes to end debate and 51 to actually pass legislation is a trick to which the public is getting increasingly wise. The democrats (this time) get to innocently claim “what’s wrong with an up-or-down vote?”, and then have a few ‘vulnerable’ democrats vote no on final passage so they can keep their jobs next election. I’m looking at you, Claire McCaskill.

    The cloture vote is the real vote.

    The thing is, if you do away with the filibuster, there only needs to be one vote — the one that will make or break each Senator. The filibuster is being used as a buffer to “protect” those Senators who collect money from special interests to vote the way they do.

    Without this “safety net” our elected officials will have to be more responsive to those of us who send them to Washington to do our business. They would have to listen to us instead of listening to the money then hiding behind procedure.

    Take for example this Health Care mess. Not one bit of it was put together with US in mind. Instead, it was formed around the number of votes it might receive, and who needed “cover”. If all you have standing between you and your constituency is an up or down simple majority vote, you aren’t going to have any “cover” if you don’t follow what the people who voted for you want.

    Sooner or later, the majority party is going to go nuclear. They have to. If the Dems don’t do it while they have the majority in the Senate, the Republicans are sure to when their turn comes around again. At this point, I don’t care which one finally does it.

    Until then, I will be looking for candidates to replace each and every one of the current sitting Congresscritters. One major plus would be someone who has never served as a politician, and has no desire to make it their career.

  18. 18
    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord <em>Pao An</em> says:
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    #11 LC Xystus says:

    I believe Service also wrote a poem about kilts, which was once posted in my defunct band’s old classroom.

    Does this look familiar?

    A Song For Kilts
    BY
    Robert Service

    How grand the human race would be
    If every man would wear a kilt,
    A flirt of Tartan finery,
    Instead of trousers, custom built!
    Nay, do not think I speak to joke:
    (You know I’m not that kind of man),
    I am convinced that all men folk.
    Should wear the costume of a Clan.

    Imagine how it’s braw and clean
    As in the wind it flutters free;
    And so conducive to hygiene
    In its sublime simplicity.
    No fool fly-buttons to adjust,–
    Wi’ shanks and maybe buttocks bare;
    Oh chiels, just take my word on trust,
    A bonny kilt’s the only wear.

    ‘Twill save a lot of siller too,
    (And here a canny Scotsman speaks),
    For one good kilt will wear you through
    A half-a-dozen pairs of breeks.
    And how it’s healthy in the breeze!
    And how it swings with saucy tilt!
    How lassies love athletic knees
    Below the waggle of a kilt!

    True, I just wear one in my mind,
    Since sent to school by Celtic aunts,
    When girls would flip it up behind,
    Until I begged for lowland pants.
    But now none dare do that to me,
    And so I sing with lyric lilt,–
    How happier the world would be
    If every male would wear a kilt!

    And Aye, by the insistence of the St. Andrews Society, by marriage I am a Chinese-German member of Clan MacPherson. Fortunately, I am quite fond of Highland Pipes, favor a certain peat-smoked Isle of Islay single malt, and the MacPhersons fought alongside the Great Montrose in the 1640’s. ‘Tis all good. Mind you, I have gotten some strange looks when I have been drafted to carry the Clan banner in the March of the Clans at Highland Games.

    And you can see where my daughter Ceilidh got her name, if you are familiar with Scot’s Gaelic. It also works phonetically in Chinese as a name, which was intentional. When she was studying in Britain, on one of the school breaks she went on a bus/hostel tour of Scotland. The guide would introduce her at the pub – o’- the – evening thusly: “This is Ceilidh, and she spells it right!”.

    ——————-

    To all who have expressed good wishes about my daughter’s illness, thanks.

    When the first sign of it showed, she went straight to Sky Ridge [she was living and working in Metro Denver at the time]. No rationing, no waiting, scan the insurance card and it was good. She was fortunate in that she worked for a company based in another state, which had not established enough of a presence in Colorado to be forbidden to buy an out of state insurance plan. It was just enough of a loophole to save her ass. Once again, getting rid of the restrictions on interstate health insurance sales would cut the costs and improve coverage. At the time, it cost her a hair over $100 a month for full coverage as a single adult, a bit over $1000 a year in max deductables. We were very lucky.

    She knew of the quality of care because of what happened to Spike, and made her choice based on quality not government limitations. Fortunately, because it is a quality hospital, it attracts quality staff. They had infectious disease specialists who knew what it was and dealt with it regularly. They had podiatric surgeons who dealt had with it before. [Not all have, she had a stream of visiting doctors during her hospitalization who had never seen a case of necrotizing fasciitis.] She was admitted immediately and as soon as they could get her and the surgeons together in the OR, it was taken care of. After a few months of at home IV’s, and one precautionary bone biopsy; we were sure we had beat it. The problems now are complications of the nerve damage caused by the bacteria, and she has had to have a bunch of foot surgeries to re-shape things. [the etiology is too complex to explain here] It is now two years on, and she is just learning to walk again on a very specialized ortho boot. If the Democrats win, said boot will be a) probably unavailable as State medical systems try to force people into standardized solutions because it is cheaper for them [look at the quality and quantity of ortho and prosthetics in Europe] and b) specifically under the Democrats’ health care plan would be highly taxed; as are all prosthetics, ortho devices, and health care appliances [wheelchairs, crutches, canes, etc.]. Nothing like the government making an extra profit off of someone for the sin of being disabled. [Kind of like the Brits' denial of care for the elderly. I just wonder what they will call our version of the "Liverpool Plan"?] Just like they intend to fine/jail people for the crime of not being able to afford the cost of insurance, making sure that they can’t afford either the insurance or to support their family.

    Things are starting to look up, and we hope that she will be able to go back to living independently within the next year, unless the regime does something to make that impossible. While the regime said that the “Recession is Over” [as per Summers, Obama's Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors]; it is likely only true because the Depression is beginning. If we have to, she will stay at home and we will take care of her. If necessary, we will gather the whole family together and live as best we can, and we will not forget the TWANLOC who brought us to this pass.

    DJ Allyn, ITW:

    Yes, both political parties are the enemy of the country, its people, and the Constitution. But we cannot forget that it is your side that is destroying the rule of law, it is your side that is attacking the Constitution, it is your side that is imposing their will on us, and it is your side that is acting like either they never have to ever face the voters again, or that the 2010 vote is already ‘counted’ and waiting in a computer to be released. Details on the above are in plenty of past threads here. We’ll concentrate our fire on the biggest threat. That does not mean that we forget those who have turned on us. But first defeat the chains that are closest to being applied, then go after the guys running the forge that made them. After that, deal with their accomplices.

    You say that you oppose the health care bills being forced down our throats now. However, it is not out of any concern for either liberty or quality of care. It is simply because, as you have stated numerous times before, you favor a total government takeover of health care a’ la Canada; with total government control of what care is doled out to individuals and at what cost. You have faith in the same politicians and bureaucrats who you excoriate in this thread; to do it well, equitably, and with selfless concern for the people instead of oppressing the people for their own benefit … if only we give them total control and no accountability.

    You may oppose the bills as they stand now, because they are not totalitarian enough; but I am pretty sure that you will in the end happily accept them as a basis for a total takeover, and be bragging about them. Further, if any chance to switch this to a pure government-run system comes up before final passage, I expect you to reverse field so fast that it will have to involve quantum physics, because nothing with mass will be able to move that fast. I do not believe we can be considered anything approximating allies in this matter. We are adversaries who happen to have encountered the same blockage in the road. But we are travelling in opposite directions.

    Granting that the ideal is to reduce the scope, role, and power of the government in our lives [from our point of view]; we have to fight the war with the tools at hand. Until we can deal with the Federales appropriately, the filibuster is a roadblock that does slow the traffic on the road to serfdom. If it were not for the filibuster, the House version would have been imposed with no opposition before July. Eliminating the filibuster now would be a dream for your side, not so much for ours.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

  19. 19
    LC Thresher says:
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    @ LC Getalis, Imperial Czar of Pharmacology:

    Where did you last leave it? There’re ethnic restaurants all over the place. I’ll check it out next time I’m in town.

  20. 20
    LC Ogrrre says:
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    @ DJ Allyn, ITW:
    It is supposed to be one man, one vote, constrained by the provisions of the Constitution in Article 1 section 8 and in the 9th and 10th amendments, NOT whoever spends the most money to someone looking to stay in the position of power.
    Fixed that one for you, DJ

    If you are uncomfortable with a simple majority passing laws — then vote enough people in office to change the majority.

    Okay, DJ. But, then, too many of the people of this country vote Party, not issues. Since the House writes the tax and spending bills, how about only the taxpayers are allowed to vote for Congress? How about 30 days before an election, registered voters are required to take a test on the issues, basic civics and on basic economic principles? If a voter is ignorant, that voter has no business voting. That is how we got Ear Leader! Too many voted for him because of his skin color, not because of his positions on the issues.

  21. 21
    Reply  |  Quote

    Very interesting thread this. I was so pissed this morning I couldn’t think of a coherent sentence to write.

    If 2/3 of the states decide to hold a Constitutional conference (or whatever the proper term is), we can well and truly fix this shit.

  22. 22

    [...] Nelson was bought. Fucking WHORE! 2009 December 20 by cmblake6 Subotai has a brilliant post over to the Rott. And this is another one of those “too pissed for coherence” moments. I’ll link [...]

  23. 23
    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord <em>Pao An</em> says:
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    #21 LC cmblake6, Imperial Black Ops Technician says:

    If 2/3 of the states decide to hold a Constitutional conference (or whatever the proper term is), we can well and truly fix this shit.

    The term is Constitutional Convention. Article V. It is interesting that there has been a reluctance to call a convention, because of a fear that it might in fact take away our Constitutional freedoms, in that there is no way [opinions differ, but I go with history] that you can limit what the delegates can or cannot put in or take out of whatever they draw up for ratification. The original Constitutional Convention was charged by the states to only “amend” the Articles of Confederation. Some amendment.

    You bring up an interesting point. When you are in possession of the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution, you fear the loss of what you have and are less likely to support a new Convention. But if you believe that the freedoms have already been taken away and while they exist on paper they are becoming moot in practice; you might be more willing to take the risk. Somewhere, there is a tipping point, and it may not be too far away.

    There are practical matters to consider. The Convention has to be called by the state legislatures; although I could see Congress secretly doing a wholesale re-write in the dead of night [sound like anything we have seen since January?] and submitting it to the states as a wholesale bill of amendment. If Congress tries that, it would be time for muskets to come off of mantels. In any case, the other means is for 2/3 of the legislatures to call for a Convention.

    Problem #1: How many legislatures have at least one house held by Democrats?
    Problem #2: How many legislatures have at least one house held by RINO’s/DIABLO’s?
    Problem #3: Congress has to confirm, validate, and record the calls for a Convention. How likely is it that it will be done?
    Problem #4: Even then, Congress can alter the terms of ratification. Keep in mind that they extended the time limit for the ERA [still didn't pass], and if they can extend it, they can probably claim the power to restrict it.

    The overarching problem is then, that the enemies of the Constitution completely hold both houses of Congress and enough of the legislatures to render the process moot. We may be in a race with the Democrats if they think that re-writing it to their satisfaction and personal power in Congress as noted above can be pulled off.

    Keep in mind that the rule of law in any case is doing rather poorly. If this is tried, there is absolutely no assurance that the Democrats will follow any semblance of the Law or Constitution. Anything from 18th Brumaire to Nacht und Nebel are in play.

    For this to take place, it will mean preparation. One could consider the establishment of Committees of Correspondence [and it would have to be off-line and secure] in each state to ponder the political situation, the state of liberty, improving and amending the Constitution to form an even more perfect and free Union, and planning to achieve that improvement and amendment. One would have to locate groups of patriots in each state, themselves preferably affiliated somehow already so that they have a basis for cooperation. There are multiple suggestions extent for the amendment of the Constitution to limit the reach, scope, and power of the State over our individual lives. I am in possession somewhere of at least one draft version that I have had for over a decade. It is probably outdated and in need of revision; but then again like all such suggestions it would be only a starting point for discussions. I am sure that they are scores of similar documents out there.

    Just woolgathering, don’t you know.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

  24. 24
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    . LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An sez:

    ut we cannot forget that it is your side that is destroying the rule of law, it is your side that is attacking the Constitution, it is your side that is imposing their will on us, and it is your side that is acting like either they never have to ever face the voters again, or that the 2010 vote is already ‘counted’ and waiting in a computer to be released.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An sez:

    You may oppose the bills as they stand now, because they are not totalitarian enough; but I am pretty sure that you will in the end happily accept them as a basis for a total takeover, and be bragging about them. Further, if any chance to switch this to a pure government-run system comes up before final passage, I expect you to reverse field so fast that it will have to involve quantum physics, because nothing with mass will be able to move that fast.

    Thank you, Subotai, for exposing DeeeJaaay for what he is, and for describing the Enemy and the case against him so clearly. Deejay represents the tactics of his side so well.

  25. 25
    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord <em>Pao An</em> says:
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    An addition to the Committees of Correspondence thought at #23 above if I may. I am blatantly stealing this from another blog. [and I told him so.]

    150. Tamquam:

    We may be forced back to square one. A modest proposal: Home study groups that study the Declaration, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, much like Bible studies. Start spreading these groups around, I think they would become quite popular in today’s political climate. It would go some way to mitigating the woeful ignorance of these matters among the general population.
    Dec 20, 2009 – 8:26 pm

    I could see it. And, mind you, I could see hostile forces kicking in doors looking for thoughtcrime. Double plus ungood to study patriotism if you are a follower of Buraq.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

  26. 26
    Muzzy says:
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    Subotai Bahadur wrote:

    In the bed next to her, there was a man on a respirator, similar to but probably a lot more primitive than the one that kept Spike alive. A doctor with a covey of hangers-on came up to his bed and told the man; “You are not likely to recover if we put you in ICU, and you have no family to take care of you if we send you home. So we are going to have to turn off your respirator. You’ll be dead in about 2 hours.”. And he did, right then, reach over and turn off the respirator. And with the man fighting desperately for his life to stop them, they forcefully removed the ventilator tube. Then they left. For the next couple of hours Ceilidh and the entire ward listened and watched as the man slowly suffocated. The chilling thing is that it apparently was considered normal.

    Did this happen exactly the way you say it happened? Are you leaving anything out?

  27. 27
    Princess Natasha, Resident Token Anarchist says:
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    Is it any wonder I do not consider socialists or other collectivists human?

  28. 28
    Papa Ray says:
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    Reading this thread with the mixture of rememberences of dire times in the lives of those involved mixed in with dire descriptions of our Republics ongoing rape while we watch in horror and our strangled attempts at trying to figure out how to stop it…

    Is depressing and strangely enough elicits a horrible laugh from my old, gristled soul, covering briefly the intense anger that I have felt for many month. Jeez, I have so many fears and distractions that I am sometimes unable to concentrate on the daily care I need to give to my two sweet grand daughters and my daily fight to come up with the money to properly care for them on my fixed income. Yea, I could go to the state for the handouts that millions of others are recieving from money (long gone) that I contributed to this rotten government for the last fifty five years of working long hours most times seven days a week.

    But I’ll burn in hell before I do.

    As this morning, my duties call. I have to take my grand daughters and one of their friends to a birthday party, followed by the usual food shopping plus dropping off of items of clothing to be mended by a lady that for some reason doesn’t charge an arm and a leg to do so. Then normal maintenace of the house until I go back to pick the kids up. No it is not that hard nor more than most do but at my age it is somewhat and sometimes more difficult than it was in the past when I raised my two kids.

    So I will re-post a couple of posts from Belmont in an effort to be frugal and timesaving.

    The first one

    “Moncktons’ premonition is by no means yet a fact. Nor is it inevitable.”

    Maybe not, in America but if you look at the numbers and the affiliations and the mind set of millions who still…still don’t care or just have not interest at all in politics or government but are more interested, nay consumed by reality TV, YOUTUBE, and what ever is current in the EU (most certainly including Britain) it just might be inevitable in just a few years.

    Right now there is a media (and culture) battle going on that is way lopsided in America. On the one hand you have the conservatives, the middle of the road that are too timid or too stupid to make a choice or you might say a life decision and then of course the left leaning liberals. But don’t forget you have the hard left which many say comprise 20 percent of the voters (voters are much more important than the hard right that very seldom vote)and hardly ever get involved in anything other than their work, their Church and their families.

    I have forgotten what other things I needed to say in the regard of this post. It is a mad house here with a group of young girls here that want to go skating and to McDonalds. So pardon my leaving.

    Americans are distracted, depressed and ignorant of their pending doom, so don’t depend on them to save your ass or this Republic.

    Papa Ray

    The Second One.

    Papa Ray:

    106 Papa Ray “Americans are distracted, depressed and ignorant of their pending doom, so don’t depend on them to save your ass or this Republic.”

    I was discouraged and distracted when I wrote the above and wish to apologize to not only the people here but to the Americans that I disrespected and demeaned by the above statement.

    Americans will, despite being distracted and depressed come to the aid of other Americans and in fact will save this Republic.

    The fact that they (we) have neglected our government or perhaps our own governance for so long is not only shameful but should give us pause when we start to rebuild our Republic in the manner our Founders designed it. And we need to remember that they paid for that design and for the formation of our Republic with not only all of their treasure, but with their lives and in some cases the lives of their families.

    We can look back at history and see that they had many problems in the first hundred years of this great nation but that they did not give up and they kept at it in not only good faith but with much discussion.

    When it started to go wrong, it was by increments each and every year. Incremental legislation, small bite, medium bite and sometimes large bites and what was spit out was incrementally farther away from the original intention of our Founders. Bite by bite until we have what we have today. Or maybe I should say what we had up until a couple of years ago.

    Because what we have today is a Republic that has been raped. Raped in a public manner for not only us to watch and weep but for the world to watch in fascination and in glee. Glee that the once great America was being raped and pillaged as they had been in their long histories.

    Moncktons’ premonition- “I wondered whether the brutality of the New World Order was moving closer than President Klaus – or any of us – had realized.”-

    Should be a warning cry to all of us here in America. But we can not save the world unless or before we save ourselves.

    And we will, by force of arms if all else fails and we pray it doesn’t come down to it. But we must remember that God only helps those that help themselves.

    Papa Ray
    Dec 20, 2009 – 4:59 pm

    The girls call, must leave. Call upon your friends your enemies to stop this rape of our Republic by the vote or otherwise.

    Papa Ray
    Dec 21 of this year of strife 2009

  29. 29
    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An says:
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    #26 Muzzy

    Did this happen exactly the way you say it happened? Are you leaving anything out?

    Because I already am a wordy bastard, and I have told the story before, there were slight abridgements:

    My daughter was diagnosed while in college as diabetic. We had a number of hospitalizations because of diabetic ketoacidosis because they had difficulty in getting her controlled. There are functionally two types of diabetes; Type One wherein your body is not producing enough insulin or no insulin and thus requires supplements, and Type Two where your body is what they call “insulin resistant” and does not properly process what insulin it has or receives. DKA is the condition where your body has been running too high in sugar too long. Your blood level gets too high in ketones as the kidneys desperately try to process and remove the extra sugar, and your body’s acid base balance goes way too acid. Symptoms include flu-like malaise, vomiting, fruity smell on breath [ketones coming out through the lungs], progressing to unconciousness, coma, and if not corrected, death. She is a combination of the two.

    Any illness, or stress, can throw off your insulin production and insulin resistance. We had several hospitalizations throughout her college career while we got this sorted out. Note that medical incompetence is not a purely Brit affair, by any means. Our first endrocrinologist [first time we had one, and we should have checked his reputation more closely before going to him, but we were in somewhat of a rush as she had just been released from the hospital and they said she needed that specialty NOW!] was an obnoxious asshole who was less than competent. He ordered the dosages and timings of the long running [basal dose] insulin exactly opposite of what they should have been which really lengthened the time it took to get her controlled. He also apparently did not bother considering the possibility of a combination.

    The process of recovering from DKA is routine, but not easy. Insulin IV to bring the sugar level down quickly and lessen the stress on the kidneys so they don’t fail. But that is not all. As the insulin metabolizes the sugar, it needs potassium and calcium. The only place it can get them in the amounts needed is to leach them from the muscle cells, including the heart which is a muscle. You have to balance the insulin with simultaneous, appropriate doses of calcium and potassium [titrate] so that you don’t cause heart failure. And even if you do it right, it still leaches some out of the body’s muscles. Which hurts like hell. Imagine a whole body muscle cramp. Oh, and you are still vomiting, even if you don’t have anything in your stomach. Also have to maintain hydration IV. If you put too much potassium and calcium in, you affect the electrical conduction in the heart, which can also cause heart arrythmias and death. Got it so far?

    All of this until the moment when you get the ketones and blood sugar down to relatively normal levels. Then you feel weak, tired, and hungry, but your mental state clears. Note that to do the titration, you hopefully use what is called an infusion pump on the IV’s of insulin, calcium, and potassium to do the titration accurately and constantly according to the doctor’s orders. At that point, you monitor all of the levels, still using the infusion pumps and titration until you are definitely at normal levels and make sure they are stable before releasing the patient. The length of monitoring is related to how “brittle” the patient’s control is. Fortunately, she is not that “brittle”, just had difficulty establishing the right regime for control. And yes, we have been through this before both in Colorado and in Wisconsin.

    The procedure and its effects are fairly cut and dried, just not always easy on the patient. There are other Rotties who are medically trained. If I am wrong in the above medical description about the process, please correct me.

    The establishment of a working treatment regimen was complicated by the fact that she was going to school 1200 miles away and was being treated both places. In her 4th year [of 5, she got two degrees in 5 years] she had to do a term overseas as part of the requirements for one of the degrees. She chose her University’s “London Centre”. First time overseas [albeit she had been a frequent visitor to Canada with us], running late because of what we would call a regular winter storm [ 4-6" of heavy wet snow in a few hours. There is a reason we drive SUV's and what you probably would consider as a major blizzard shutting things down.], and trying to get to across the state to Denver International Airport in time to clear security and board the flight. We got her off on time, although the plane was late and almost missed the connection in Chicago for the London plane. Some stress there.

    It also turned out that she had a previously undetected kidney infection. It flared up while she was in London, on her 3rd day there. Result DKA. Her room-mate found her semi-concious in their room at the London Centre. They took her to what I believe you Brits call the A & O department. We call them Emergency Rooms. Quick triage, and then to the ICU for the treatment as above.

    As soon as they got her admitted, we got a call from the head of the London Centre advising us of what was going on, and giving us the number of the hospital. We called, and got the ICU. After some difficulty getting someone who spoke an understandable English, we were briefed on her condition. As one could expect, there were no patient phones in the ICU, so we could not talk with her. To be honest, she might not yet have been too coherent.

    Absolutely no complaints about the treatment in the ER or ICU. They did things right. [As I have noted above, I have worked in private hospitals before, and as I did not note here, but 10 of my years with the State of Colorado involved being in charge of a Maximum Security Infirmary for my shift, containing and treating felons. I have some understanding of medical matters.].

    Before anybody starts out, by the way, claiming that we were freeloading on the idyllic Brit National Health Service, Her Majesty’s Government insists that students from overseas buy an insurance policy that they designate, to cover any medical costs incurred in Britain, cash in advance before arriving. Since our health insurance did not cover over there, there was no problem. It worked out to be about $100 a week.

    When it came time to transfer her out of the ICU, they literally had no beds in a female ward [remember, they are open like our old barracks used to be]. It was decided by the hospital to put her in a geriatric male ward. I think the concept was that while she was weak, she was awake, aware, and oriented x 3; and had a good chance of kicking the shit out of anyone who got out of line, it would work. Being American, and my kid; I think they were probably right. It also turned out, that they had difficulty finding a working infusion pump for her IV’s outside the ICU. Apparently the one they eventually got was the last working one in the whole hospital.

    We called and got the ward the morning [their time] she was moved. After some finagling [they had to bring phone to the ward and her bed, because they did not have patient phones there.] we got to talk to her. She told us about the ward she was in and told us not to worry, she was in the recovery phase and just there to see if her sugar levels were staying within normal limits with her insulin regime. Plus, they were giving her oral antibiotics for the kidney infection. [We would do stronger antibiotics IV over here, but we did not complain] We talked to the nurse [once again, some problems as English (Even Brit English) was not her first language.] and were assured that they would make sure there were no problems with her being there.

    Later that day, events took place as described. I will note that in her first description of what happened [on the phone from the London Centre later] she did not describe the man fighting for his life. It is somewhat traumatic for someone to have someone murdered while you watch and listen from the other side of a not quite opaque curtain. She did later, at home, and you could tell that it had shaken her to the core.

    After that, and the man across the aisle overnight, she decided to get out of there. In Britain, they apparently use the equivalent of 3rd year medical students like we use interns. Her doctor was taking a long weekend and left his intern in charge. That morning, she cornered him [literally I believe, she is my kid], and threatened to create the necessity to have the IV pole sterilized if he did not release her. After some hassle over getting the pharmacy to give her the rest of the 7 [seven] days total oral antibiotics ordered, she walked back to the London Centre. Fortunately, part way back she ran into some friends from the school who helped her back, because she was quite weak. And she called us as soon as the time difference allowed to let us know what had happened.

    Aftermath #1. Note the duration of antibiotics ordered. In this country, depending on the antibiotic [and we have later and more effective antibiotics over here] we would have ordered 10 days to two weeks. The Brits apparently only order one week, to save money for the NHS. It knocked the infection back, but it came back with a vengeance, pissed off and somewhat drug resistant; and we ended up with another DKA episode and hospitalization after she got home. While I am not overly thrilled with our local, small town hospital; they beat the DKA and killed the infection. That was the last time, by the way, she has had DKA, because we have her control figured out.

    Aftermath #2. Some months later, I got a bill from Chelsea and Westminster Health Care Trust. It was well into 4 figures in pounds [double it roughly for dollars]. After some trans-Atlantic phone calls and correspondence; it turns out that the insurance policy we were told by HM Government was to cover any medical costs while she was in Britain, did not cover anything to do with diabetes. I got a loan from the Credit Union and paid them. Six months after that, I got a letter from said Chelsea and Westminster Health Care Trust nastily threatening to sue me if I did not pay. I acquired a copy of the cancelled cashier’s check from the Credit Union, and called the bloody hospital. The impression I got, as they backpedalled furiously, was that either they had no idea about their financial accounts, or that they were trying to double bill in hopes they could get me to pay twice.

    Other than the additions noted above, the description of what happened in the hospital is as she related to me. I believe my daughter, and in any case she had no reason to lie about it to me. I have dealt with people who have watched killings, and her reactions match.

    I apologize to the rest of the LC’s for taking up this much space; but you see when I have related what happened to her before in a thread discussing Brit Health Care; Muzzy publicly called my daughter and myself liars. I do realize that one has to consider the source in such things, and this source has a record here of postings to evaluate. His common descriptive nickname here may be being overly generous. In any case, I answer him now, and will be done with it. If we should meet face to face sometime in the future, however, there is a matter that will have to be settled. I am getting to be an old man, with all that implies as far as un-necessary preliminaries.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

  30. 30
    Muzzy says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Subotai Bahadur wrote:

    Later that day, events took place as described.

    Did your daughter go to the police? If not, why not?

  31. 31
    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    #30 Muzzy says:

    Did your daughter go to the police? If not, why not?

    It goes against the grain to re-engage with a known Statist troll, but it appears that I have to explain the obvious.

    Did she call the police? No, she didn’t. Why?

    1) A young woman in her early 20’s, alone for the first time in a foreign country that from all appearances is not a safe place; who has just nearly died. On top of that, she has just seen someone deliberately murdered by the government health care system. More than a little bit of shock.

    2) For the first three days of her time in London, the personnel at the school [both American and Brit] had been pounding into their heads that: ” a) they should never resist if attacked by anyone. The best reaction is to fall to the ground in a fetal position and scream for help, and hope that the attacker goes away. b) the police will not protect you, c) you have no rights at all, especially the rights that one would expect to hold against the government at home, so just shut up. If you complain or raise any fuss, you will be an “Ugly American”. Do not expect anything to change to suit your world view.” That series of lessons recapped what was drilled into them repeatedly by the orientation classes at the end of the preceeding term at her University for those students going to Britain for the next term.

    And there seemed to be no surprise amongst the London Centre staff at the story.

    3) The National Health Service is part of the government, and one into whose hands she may fall again. British nationals have no rights against the NHS, so what protection does a foreigner [especially an American] have there? Or who would listen to an American over there, as officialdom at least really does not like us? After all, according to the Brits the NHS is the crowning jewel of all creation.

    4) As I said, the most chilling part was that the rest of the people took it as normal. If the Brits who are possibly next in line for similar treatment don’t protest, what does it say about the country? Or how cowed they are? And how routine must such acts be?

    5) The day after I heard about it, I talked to a fellow SGT on my shift. She is an immigrant from Scotland [10 years prior]. She said that such was not unusual. She told me that her sister back in Britain had retired as [can't remember the title, we would call them Charge Nurse on the Ward] in the NHS late the previous year and had been telling her similar stories for years.

    Calling the police in that case seemed to have as much chance of doing any good, as calling the police in Russia and complaining about a government employee. Or nowadays, charging a Democrat with a crime.

    I was keeping track of her flight home, and was greatly relieved when it entered US airspace. And we were overjoyed, beyond the normal parental concern, to see her walk through the arrival gate. When I retired, our original intent was to take a vacation trip to Ireland, Scotland, and England. Events interfered, but we had already planned to buy [American] insurance for a medevac home if anything happened to us.

    Except now the traitorous Democrat bastards are bringing the same thing here, step by step.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

  32. 32
    Grammar Czar says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An sez:

    Muzzy publicly called my daughter and myself liars. I do realize that one has to consider the source in such things,

    Muzzy still hasn’t gotten over the fact that the Brits got their butts kicked in the Revolutionary War.

  33. 33
    LC LOBO says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Grammar Czar sez:

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An sez:
    Muzzy publicly called my daughter and myself liars. I do realize that one has to consider the source in such things,
    Muzzy still hasn’t gotten over the fact that the Brits got their butts kicked in the Revolutionary War.

    :em99: And again in 1812, and a couple of other bail-outs that we helped with…..

  34. 34
    Muzzy says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Subotai Bahadur

    It goes against the grain to re-engage with a known Statist troll, but it appears that I have to explain the obvious.

    Okay, listen. This isn’t fucking debate club anymore. We shouldn’t be trying to score points off eachother. You’re saying a fucking murder took place about 5 miles away from where I live in a hospital that treats members of my family. This is fucking serious. I need to report this. Contrary to whatever fucked up propaganda you may have heard, it is not standard practise for doctors in the fifth largest economy in the world to go around fucking yanking ventilators out of struggling elderly patients to save some fucking money. If what you saw, actually went down, it was cold-blooded first degree murder, and I need to go to the police today!.

    They’ll probably want to talk to you so if you could send me your contact details at gothicguerilla@live.co.uk I would appreciate it.

  35. 35
    Muzzy says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Further to that last post, I readily acknowledge that I could well be misunderstanding something here or that I’m not getting the full picture.

    Obviously there is absolutely no way I would do anything without getting the full picture first. It occurred to me that in your last post you didn’t mention having made any further enquiries after your daughter got back. For all I know, you may very well have done that and, if so, there isn’t really anything I could do anyway.

    I just want you to know that I’m not “trolling” about this and I’m actually trying to be helpful for once in my life.

  36. 36
    LC Mike in Chi says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Muzzled:
    Why don’t you go over to the geriatric ward yourself? Tell them you want to visit your uncle Geof or something.

    I just want you to know that I’m not “trolling” about this and I’m actually trying to be helpful for once in my life.

    Suck eggs, ya wanker.
    This forum is as close as you get to enjoying free discourse, in all likelihood.
    I sir, question your veracity AT ALL TIMES.
    You’re a quizzical muckraker of the first water.

  37. 37
    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Muzzy,

    With all due respect, this definitely is not a debating game, and never has been. We here are fighting not to become the Zimbabwean equivalent of Britain.

    I assume that what you have said over the years reflects what you really feel and believe. Thus, I do not believe that you are concerned about what is happening in the NHS any more than I believe that DJ Allyn is just stirring shit with some of the things he says. I take him, and you, at your respective words and make my personal judgments from that in the absence of other data. Except when you say, totally out of character, “I’m actually trying to be helpful for once in my life.”. I was talking above about when people start acting outside of their normal routine being an anomaly that draws suspicion.

    No, I did not try to do something about it after my daughter got safely home, for the reasons listed above, and because at that time the UK was still technically a sovereign country and I had no hope of affecting what happens there as an “interfering” American. I assume that when things like that happen out in the open; yes it in fact “is standard practise for doctors in the fifth largest economy in the world to go around fucking yanking ventilators out of struggling elderly patients to save some fucking money.”. Especially when it is taken as the norm by the patients around them as they are doing it [*], and people who have worked their careers in the system admit it.

    [*] – I rather suspect that in this country, if there were to be an open ward, and something like this had happened; that every non-totally bedridden patient, any passing visitors, and a goodly part of the staff would have performed a bare hands field expedient autopsy on the doctor as he stood there. They would not lie there quietly. Do I hear an “Amen” from the Empire?

    If you really want to protect your family, you have plenty of other current cases of NHS neglect and abuse to draw from to fight the abuses in the system. The annual statistics published there are a gold mine for finding such. Or you could just look at your current newspapers to see your government health system deliberately killing old people to save money. They couch it in terms of compassion, but how compassionate is it to cut off meds and starve people to death? It is just the updated, bureaucratic, and less physically combative way of dealing with those the NHS regards as “useless eaters”.

    Propaganda? It is your own damned pro-government media.

    Your Times of London is hardly a tabloid rag. It is the voice of the government, all its institutions, and the establishment. Even they report on it.

    Daughter saves mother, 80, left by doctors to starve
    http://www.timesonli.....869646.ece

    Your NHS’ “Liverpool Care Pathway Plan” is just that. And it is spreading nationwide today. To save money. If your doctors are killing people, it is what passes for being your government that is killing people. And you note in all the reports, investigations, commissions, etc. ….. no one at NHS is ever held responsible and has to pay for abuse, misconduct, or mortality and morbidity. Unless of course, they are freelancing and killing people on their own outside of what appears to be policy.

    And you poor, disarmed, stateless sods can’t protest, can’t sue, and have no way of resisting.

    We still may; by any means necessary. And we are going to try.

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An

  38. 38
    LC TerribleTroy, Imperial Centurion says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Make up your mind Muzzy… do you reside in canada or the UK? Tell ya what….send me your address and next time Im in town we can visit the facility together. “Did she call the police?”…… exactly HOW FUCKING INGNORANT ARE YOU? No, really …..cause that was the absolute dumbest thing you’ve written here, which is a trick in itself.

    It is my sincere prayer that you get to experience the full NHS ride….

    Merry Christmas you POS….. as Christmas falls on Friday this year…..enjoy listening to the call to prayer from the mosque competing with the churchs bells….. outta make for a really nice sound….

    Sub……please dont waste you time trying to explain anything to this POS….. it isnt worth your time or your talent.

  39. 39
    LC hilljohnny says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    LC Subotai Bahadur, Lord Pao An sez:

    Do I hear an “Amen” from the Empire?

    might have heard more than that as the last time i was in the hospital i had my P-11 with me.

  40. 40
    LC Jon Imperial Hunter says:
    Reply  |  Quote

    Muzzy sez:

    Further to that last post, I readily acknowledge that I could well be misunderstanding something here or that I’m not getting the full picture.

    Bwaaahahahahaha!

    Nothing so hilarious as an asshat/wipe/canker/suppuratingpustule with a firm command of the obvious proclaiming same.

    Bugger off the the waiting line at the EUthanasia “Clinic”. May your wait be brief.



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