Reality? Kicks The Germans Squarely In Their Zusammengeschrumpfte Hoden*

Sir George, Knight Errant of the Imperial Duchy of Kentucky?, passes along this delightful bit of news of the EUnuchistani EUtopian Socialist Republic of Allemagne? finally feeling the rewards of six decades of rampant Welfare-statism.

When he set up his film production company in Berlin, Raphael Socha had every reason to call it Hope and Glory.

“We were brimming with enthusiasm about what we could do here in this exciting city after the fall of the wall, full of hope about the new chances Germany had,” he said.

We were all happy that the wall came down, but some of us knew that it was only a matter of time before the insatiable beast that is Socialism consumes itself.

Now, 11 years later, Mr Socha, 50, and his business partner and wife, Anja Padel, 41, are turning their backs on Germany, despite several successes.

Bemoaning its stagnant economy, lack of flexibility, negativity and over-regulation, all of which they say is strangling their business, the couple will move to north London in February.

What was that we kept hearing about “The worst economy since Herbert Hoover?“? BWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

“Germany has huge potential, but it needs to motivate itself,” says Ms Padel. “We have no desire to stay in a country which is suffering from a chronic bad mood.”

BWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! It sounds like the entire country is suffering from P.E.S.T.r! And here we’ve been told for decades how “enlightened” and “idyllic” life was on the InContinent?. Perhaps the German government can set up some concentration camps counseling centers and bring in the Gestapo counselors from Boca Raton?

Their commitment to leave has been strengthened by the announcement this month from the government’s so-called wise men economic experts that Germany’s unemployment situation is much worse than thought.

Rather than the official figure of 4.3 million unemployed, the real figure is six million, they claim – an amount similar to that of 1932, when workers took to the streets in violent protests that culminated in the Nazis’ rise to power.

Combine that with the exploding *Ha!* Jumpin’ Jihadi population and the already-rampant indigenous anti-Semitism, and you have the recipe for a rather nasty little case of Historical Deja Vu?. (Please pardon the dirty language there, folks.)

An editorial in the tabloid Bild called it a “national scandal ? a bitter reality which no one wants to hear.

Exactly like our own Rejects From the Shallow End of the Gene Pool? (aka The Leftards?).

But the news has come as a terrible psychological blow to the nation, swiftly developing into a fear which is reflected in everything from the title of a current popular film, called The Fat Years are Over, to best-selling books such as Is Germany for Saving? and The Deformed Society.

So deep is the gloom that Die Welt recently reacted by wrapping its main newspaper in a free supplement of essays on what makes life worth living.

“Michael Mooron is making another film! Your 6 year-old can get flavored, glow-in-the-dark condoms from his or her 1st grade teacher! There are only four more years of BushHitler! Please don’t kill yourselves!”

A recent study known as the Global Career Confidence Index showed that despite their rigid labour laws, Germans had more fear of losing their jobs than people in any other nation.

But… but… but…….. What about “Herbert Hoover?“?

A separate study showed that fear of unemployment topped any other concerns they might have, such as of terrorism, war or illness. Experts have now declared “arbeits angst” (work fear) to be one of the main causes of illness in Germany.

Give the Turbaned Terrorist Tumblefucks? a few more years of breeding like the insidious rats that they are and the Schnitzeldicks will have more than “arbeits angst” to worry about. They’ll be trying to keep their heads attached to their bodies instead of worrying where their next welfare check is coming from.

The tension is set to rise further next month when police will be on alert across the country to quell unrest at employment offices as the most far-reaching changes to the unemployment and social benefits system since 1945 are implemented.

The reforms, known as Hartz IV, will reduce unemployment benefit from the generous 60 per cent of former pay to a flat rate of about 232 a month for the long-term unemployed.

Also, under the reforms the jobless will for the first time have no option but to accept offers of work.

GASP??!! The Horror? of it all!!! Forcing people to WORK for the money they get paid!!! That’s just BARBARIC!!! Someone notify the International Criminal Court immediately!

This summer the reforms, which are so hated they have been dubbed “HIV”, prompted tens of thousands to take to the streets in protests over several weeks.

We have those “protests” over here, too. You’ll notice that about 99.9% of those “protesting” are the ones who are unemployed, unemployable and/or social retards with the cognitive abilities of lukewarm hamster vomit.

Despite doomsayers’ predictions that it will encourage the type of widespread poverty seen in 19th century Germany, experts say the shake-up could be ground-breaking in terms of reducing the attraction of unemployment for many and increasing the appeal of work for the first time in decades.

This, after all, is a country where, contrary to the picture of hard-working Germans, 40 per cent of the population is not in full-time work and people spend only 13 per cent of their lives in employment.

Go back and read that again. Let it sink in. Ponder the astounding implications of those statistics on the tax burden that is placed upon the few who are actually working and producing the wealth in Germany.

“Until now it has been too easy to be unemployed in Germany due to the welfare mentality which has developed over the generations,” said Olaf Mller, the spokesman for the employment office in Berlin and Brandenburg, where unemployment is 17.2 per cent.

Did someone mention “Herbert Hoover?“?

“Through the reforms a type of social clean-up is taking place, in which we’re learning to distinguish between the diligent and the work-shy.”

GOTTDAM ROTTERDAM!!! Someone give that man a Maggie Thatcher Award? for having the Testicular Fortitude? for saying “We’re learning to distinguish between those who will actually carry their own weight and those who are fuckin’ leeches on the ass of society.” and a Slick Willie Klintoon Award? for saying it so damned smoothly!

Already there are strong indications that the incentive to find work is increasing.

Incentive” meaning “Hans doesn’t have enough money from his welfare check to buy his borst and beer this month.

This make-over tallies with widespread changes within the workplace. Short working weeks appear to be becoming a thing of the past along with company-financed spa holidays.

It seems that some of the EUnuchs are finally realizing the old adage: TANSTAAFL

The man who has unwittingly come to epitomise the beleaguered and downtrodden German is the brother of Chancellor Gerhard Schrder, the author of the unpopular reforms.

The gaunt and pale Lothar Vosseler, 57, was pictured last week on the front pages of several German newspapers struggling to fill out his 16-page Hartz IV application, having recently faced his latest redundancy from a variety of blue-collar jobs.

“From January, my sick wife, Gisela, and I will have to manage on 766 a month, while my brother gets a handsome 19,000 a month,” he said.

“So something is going seriously wrong in this country. The gap between the rich and the poor is widening.”

And there we have the classic Idiotarian Socialist meme. Perhaps if “The Poor?” would get off their fat, lazy asses and actually WORK, they’d be more likely to join “The Rich?“? (To pre-empt the inevitable Wailing & Gnashing of Teeth? by the usual suspects, we refer you Drooling Dolts of the DUh?, once again, to a previous sited set of statistics: “40 per cent of the population is not in full-time work and people spend only 13 per cent of their lives in employment.”)

*—Shriveled nutsac. (Thanks to Lord Spatula for the translation.)

F.E.T.E.

125 comments

  1. 1
    Fraydog growls and barks:

    First!

  2. 2
    Pamela growls and barks:

    God I hope our men and women don’t have to rescue Europe AGAIN!!!

    This is just the beginning of the ugliness that is out there, just the beginning folks.

  3. 3
    Beth growls and barks:

    Ohhh, but they have free health care and a year (or is it more? I forget) of paid family leave…so superior to us!!!

    DUh…Bankrupt the hemorrhaging, taxpaying individuals and businesses, and you bankrupt the whole economy. Basic economics, at least to those willing to face reality instead of silly utopian collectivism.

    Anecdotally, I’ve always wondered WHY I’m the ONLY person I’ve ever heard say GERMANY SUCKS after having been stationed there. It DOES suck. Why DO military like being stationed there? All I can fathom is that we’re not dependent on their shitty economic system for a job and we don’t pay their taxes (except for their VAT).

    I’ll second that F.E.T.E.!

  4. 4
    Sensibly Sixteen growls and barks:

    I used to live in Berlin as a matter of fact, and was in Germany for their last general election. Schroder has been ruining the economy for the better part of 7 years now, and the Germans voted him into power any way. Do you know why?

    He said no to the war in Iraq and ran an anti-amerrican campaign.

    The Germans, although I do love their country, need to wake up and smell the coffee. They deserve to rot like this.

    (Example) I have German family. My mom’s aunt is German. She refuses to work, and called my mom silly for getting a job and trying to achieve her full potential. Now she’s married to an asswipe who kicked her oldest son out of the house, and her hubby won’t pay university tuition. Know who’s stuck with it? My family. Germans are selfish assnibblers.

  5. 5
    Beth growls and barks:

    P.S.
    Thanks for posting. The blogosphere is boring as hell these days. You’d think it was some kind of Christian (forgive my un-PC use of the “C” word) holiday season, or something… ;-)

  6. 6
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    I hate to be the butt-munch here, but…
    Isn’t the “Why work when I git gubment money’ thing happening here too, albeit not that far evolved?

    I think one problem is with the current Social Security. Sure, pay in for a lifetime, but couldn’t the government do a little better than the (approximate) 1% interest they do now? And I think there are too many people on it; A couple pulling in 30 to 40K a year on pensions etc. gets money every month? I don’t make that much, where’s my money??

    Didn’t it used to be a safety net for the less fortunate and not a god given right? I understand it only takes about 18 months to get back from SS what you paid in during your working lifetime…
    If I’m well off when I retire I expect no handouts from Uncle Sam. But if I’m hurtin’ : Isn’t that what it was intended for?

    Badly paraphrased…someone will correct me, but, ‘Democracy only works until those that vote realize they can vote for those whom will give them everything, at the government’s expense’

    Thoughts, comments,.. bitch slaps?! ( I hope not the latter..!)

  7. 7
    GeoffK growls and barks:

    Um, 19,000 Pounds is almost $37,000 per month. I know that he’s the Chancellor, but is Schroeder really worth $440,000 per year? I think that Bush makes about half that much.

    Sounds like the Germans ought to ask for a refund.

  8. 8
    Francis W. Porretto growls and barks:

    This might be a trifle unkind, but, considering that German over-regulation is as pervasive and stifling as it is, one might say that our forces were able to defeat Hitler and the Nazis, but they were unable to defeat fascism, or at least the German inclination toward it.

    Fascism, be it remembered, is about State control over human activity, principally commercial activity. The nominal title to private property remains in private hands, but taxes and regulations are used to transfer all rights to the property — all decisionmaking about how it may be used and to whom the gains shall flow — to the State.

    And yes, the same pattern is enlarging and strengthening here, under different, one might say “quilted,” ideological cover.

  9. 9
    LC BillofStMarys growls and barks:

    OT…..but here is an article about a European nation that remembers “The Bulge” properly

    http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2953901

  10. 10
    Cameron growls and barks:

    God I hope our men and women don’t have to rescue Europe AGAIN!!!

    I was thinking about that myself and a thought just popped into my head.

    Why should we? For so many years, American bashing was something All The Cool Kids were doing. I had to put up with one forum where the Europeans would go on about how we should mind our own business.

    I know it’s unrealistic to hope for but it would be nice if we just let them collapse. And if other countries ask for our help, we show them our specials on ground forces and charge accordingly.

  11. 11
    LC Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    Heh. “Well, we can lease you a brigade of infantry for one hundred billion euros a month, plus expenses. And go ahead and add on 50% for emotional damages for not being there for us… That’s the going rate, take it our leave it.”

  12. 12
    LC Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    er… take it or leave it. PIMF.

  13. 13
    Tsuki Hoseki growls and barks:

    ?Deja Vu?. (Please pardon the dirty language there, folks.)

    If Tsuki may humbly beg to suggest an alternative way of describing that phenomenon, as she understands why one might not wish to pollute one’s mouth with [spit]French[/spit] words, she would suggest the expression “Synchronicity.” It has the benefit of being vaguely scientific (if one considers psychology a legitimate science), and of being coined by the Swiss psychologist C.G. Jung.

    Tsuki also notes (with only a little malicious glee in her heart) that as psychologists go, Jung has the benefit of not being Freud — and as nations go, Switzerland has the benefit of being neither France nor Germany.

    It is a small compliment, Tsuki admits; but cuckoo clocks, hot chocolate and unethical banks don’t impress her that much, so that is the best she can give them. (^_^)

    TANSTAAFL

    Tsuki has read Robert Heinlein too!

    She must confess that she initially did so only to make Tao Libra cease his continual evangelism for Heinlein, but his judgement was correct and Tsuki likes Heinlein very much, at least his earlier work. She should have known to trust Tao Libra’s taste in authors, since his taste in women woman [singular] is impeccable. *(^_^)*

  14. 14
    LC Bishop, Imperial Titweasel growls and barks:

    Many Europeans are living in denial. Jeffrey Gemin explains their “thought process” well.

    Hat tip, David’s Medeinkritik.

  15. 15
    Romeocat growls and barks:

    TANSTAAFL!

    Yay! The ‘Cat loves Heinlein, too! And, as I recall, Mr. Heinlein had a wonderful essay, “‘Pravda’ Means ‘Truth’” in Expanded Universe which bears some resemblance to this situation.

    Of course, he was talking about Soviet-Russia-which-is-now-dead-’cause-Reagan-kicked-it’s-butt, but the tone of the essay, as I recall, was foreshadowing this sort of “why work” attitude.

    Gee, I’ve gotta get that book out and re-read it….

  16. 16
    Jack Mack growls and barks:

    Try these three articles for in depth analysis –

    Why Europe Chose Extincion
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/front_page/ED08Aa01.html

    When Immortality is Not Enough
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FA05Aa01.html

    The Sacred Heart of Darkness
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/EB11Aa01.html

    courtesy: cuanas,blogspot,com

  17. 17
    Natasha G.L.O.R.&I.P.P.W. growls and barks:

    You know, this just supports one of my comments a long time ago, in chat, that socialists are dumber than tapeworms. Why? Quite simple, really. In the animal kingdom, parasites live off their host, but are programmed, by nature, not to kill him off. Socialists, on the other hand, are as incompetent at parasitism as at anything else, so they end up destroying their hosts, sooner or later.

    I feel absolutely no pity for the Europeans. These idiots lived right next to Soviet Russia, saw what havoc socialism wreaked there, yet chose to ignore reality. So it’s about bloody time they get their noses rubbed in the mess they made.

    OT, but the more comments by Tsuki I read, the more I think she might be my long-lost twin. Her exuberant egoism (in the best sense of that word!) is very near and dear to my own heart!

  18. 18
    LC Moriarty growls and barks:

    TANSTAAFL indeed. My family left Germany in the late ’30s because of a contempt for Hitler and an overweening State. It took until 1945 (and, not incidentally, the loss of countless lives and the destruction of Germany) to get rid of the former.

    They still cling tenaciously to the latter and probably always will. The nanny state is as much entrenched in the German psyche as beer and bockwurst. (The reunification just made matters worse. West Germany absorbed a massive third-world welfare state with even less work ethic. Most “Wessies” now say they want to rebuild the wall, just thicker and higher.)

    To paraphrase the Imperial Firearms Advisor, let Germany sink. (For that matter, let all the EU socialist ‘tards sink.) We put roofs over their heads and kept them warm, fed and safe for nearly two generations. It’s no wonder the entire nation is acting like a bunch of spoiled, angst-ridden, lazy teenagers.

    Time to go out and get a job.

  19. 19
    Graumagus growls and barks:

    Reminds me of something I read in an industry magazine about how European companies have to kiss the asses of the employees they do have because they’re neigh impossible to fire and if you do you still end up paying most of their wages in unemployment (IE: In some parts of Europe, women get two years of paid maternity leave).

    Socialism is just a larval form of communism (as stated by that fucker Marx himself).
    An example about Germany (from that magazine I mentioned):

    According to law, every company with more than five employees must have a works council, which gives employees a voice not only aout their work environment but also the management of the company.

    “We have to at least get the workers used to the idea of controlling the means of production, comrades! It’ll make our job so much easier when the revolution comes…”

    A pox on the bastards. If they are so unwilling to learn from history, let them have a sequel without the happy ending this time.

  20. 20
    Fraydog growls and barks:

    We rebuild their country and this is the best they can do. At least Japan ended up being economically productive. Hey, maybe we shouldn’t rescue them if they fall to the next fascist threat (Islamofascism) because they were dumb enough to oppose logic and common sense in the WoT. At least we are pulling our military presence that allows them to have this type of soft, fat, lazy-ass welfare state. Thank God for that.

  21. 21
    LC Denita TwoDragons, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    OT, but the more comments by Tsuki I read, the more I think she might be my long-lost twin. Her exuberant egoism (in the best sense of that word!) is very near and dear to my own heart!

    No! She’s MY long-lost twin, dammit…! ;-)

    Yep, Tsuki’s One Of Us, that’s for sure. Where the hell is your LC, Tsuki? You forget you were supposed to wear it or something…? Or am I gonna have to staple it onto your lapel, hon? *grin*

    As for the subject at hand, I got a firsthand look at it a few years back when a German friend came to visit us. There were a few culture-clash moments that ended up with me shaking my head in wonder at how he was capable of living with such a mentality. I lost touch with him soon afterwards, but sometimes I wonder what he’d have to say about all this now…

    –TwoDragons

  22. 22
    LC Wil growls and barks:

    A Maggie and a Willie for the same sentence? Certainly shows a high degree of flexibility, if nothing else.

    Germany, having before it the example of the USSR, and, indeed, a major portion of the current state (the former East Germany for the MoonBats in attendance), should have known what it was doing when it enacted the laws that made the current situation possible.

    One definition of insanity is to continue to do what you have done in the past, while expecting different results.

    “If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.”

    “Proud Charter Member of the VRWC since 1964.”

  23. 23
    Tao Libra growls and barks:

    Off-Topic, and far be it from me to correct my precious and perfect jewel, but Switzerland is also the home of the ECOMOBILE, which is quite simply the coolest ground vehicle on the planet.

    So the place isn’t entirely useless. Just mostly.

  24. 24
    Deathknyte growls and barks:

    What’s the current economic situation in germany? Are there jobs for those who want them. or are most of the jobs held by middle eastern immigrants? IF there are no jobs for the unemployed to get then germany is either going to have to beg the e.u. for the cash to support its people or us. The last thing I want is to tangle with another western army, even if it is made up of undisciplined conscripts. Well… maybe not the last type. China would be a far worse opponent.

    OK, scratch that. The german army is being stripped down according to here.

    Maybe I shouldnt think when I first get up in the morning.

  25. 25
    Justin Buist growls and barks:

    Wonder what they mean by “full-time” employment. If they’re using the US definition against German culture then it would definately skew the numbers. I wouldn’t be surprised though to see that they actually used the German definition of full-time though.

    I worked for a company that was German owned, and a lot of Germans were around me. I’m told that Over There it’s a 35 hour work week, with 6 weeks paid vacation per year. That’s for starters, more senior folk get more time off.

    One of our offices didn’t require people to even keep track of their time. They forbade it and set no standard working hours. Why? To work over 50 hours a week in Germany is criminal. Well, it’s criminal for the company to -let- you do that I guess. So, they just didn’t keep records.

  26. 26
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Deathkynte

    Thanks for the link to the Bundeswehr story. As one who served 2 tours in Europe, one with Canadian Forces and one with a NATO HQ & Ist German Air Division, I found it quite interesting and tried putting it in context with the German Army that I first saw in the mid-to-late 60′s.

    At that time, there were still enough WW2 veterans as NCO’s and Officers to pass on the lessons and fighting qualities that they had learned.
    It was at that time that I first met Eric Hartmann, the worlds top ranked fighter pilot and also Hans Ulrich Rudel, Germany’s most decorated airman (also an unrepentant Nazi, but I digress).

    For all of its shortcomings, Germany has always managed to field a hard driving, technically competent and dedicated (to wrong causes, at times) military and, until lately, also managed to adapt to new world dynamics.
    Witness the dissaray and complete fuck up of their reaction to the massacre of Israeli athletes in Munich. From that incompetent and disgraceful clusterfuck, was born Units such as Grenzschutzgruppe 9 of Mogadishu fame.

    I am, somewhat, surprised to see them go this route as shown in the article. I can only hope that the 35,000 man “point of the sword” will be utilized in the War On Terror and, with a change in Government and ideals, will serve alongside our guys in doing what is going to HAVE to be done.

  27. 27
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Another good thing about Switzwerland is it’s miltia system. Every male after completing his mandatory term, keeps his FULLY AUTOMATIC Sig assault rifle in his home in case of call up. Contrary to the moonbat logic of guns casuing crime the way flies cause garbage, virtually no violent crime the last I heard.

    They are also world renowned for thier marksmanship (William Tell anyone). I remember an old story. Kaiser Wilhelm I was touring Switzerland prior to the outbreak of WWI. His Imperial Staff had drawn up plans for an invasion in case of hostilites. While he was inspecting the miltia on manouvers, he asked a miltiaman “What would your militia of 500,00 do if I invaded with an army of 1,000,000 men?” The militiaman looked at him and said “Shoot twice and go home”. Germany never did invade Switzerland.

  28. 28
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    LC Joe D
    Major Hartman had like 342 kills or something close to that right? Burned severely in am Me-262 crash?

    And Rudel was the Stuka pilot that killed something like 500 some odd Soviet tanks right?

    I’ve always had alot of respect for the compotency of the German military. From Armenius and Tutterberg Wald, to the Prussians total smearing of France in 1870-71, to the Blitzkrieg and Kesselslacht tactics we use today.

    If only they had put that compotency to the good fight instead of Evil.

  29. 29
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    0311 Crunchie

    You are correct about Rudel who actually had a couple of decorations that were only ever awarded to him. He flew over 2200 operational missions and was consulted in the design of the A10.

    The pilot that received the disfuguring burns was Macki Steinhoff who, incidentally, was Inspector General of the Bundesluftwaffe while I was serving with AAFCE.

  30. 30
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Steinhoff, not Hartman. Hartman did serve in the re-constituted Luftwaffe though, right? Could you imagine being the rookie pilot assigned to his squadron?

    They allowed German WWII vets to wear de-nazified versions of the Iron Crosses didn’t they? If I remeber correctly Hartman had the Knights Cross with Diamonds and Swords?

  31. 31
    L.C. Dutch Expat growls and barks:

    It’s true: socialism kills its host as surely as communism, but it just takes longer.

    I find it funny that the article mentions Germany’s negativity and the chronic bad mood. Germany’s western neighbor suffers from the same syndrome. One of the many reasons I don’t want to live there anymore. Despite its imperfections, the US is still the best country on the world. Let’s make sure the Leftards and other misguided souls don’t lead us down the same path that Europe has gone.

    My only fear is that it’s going to get awfully lonely fighting the Islamofascists without Europe in the long run. But then again, we’ve been managing quite well, thank you, up until now. Maybe we should parachute some arms and ammo to the Christian resistance once civil war breaks out in Europe? I wouldn’t send in any US troops, though. The EUnichs have made their bed and should lie in it.

  32. 32
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Hartmann also served with 2ATAF (NATO) and spent a lot of time in the United States on training and conversion programs.
    He once said that his proudest achievement, in 4 years of aerial combat, was that he never lost a wingman.

    He had 352 victories, all Russian Front while with JG52 and went in to Soviet captivity for 10 years and earned the KC with Oakleafs, Swords and Diamonds (only 27 awarded).
    Rudel got the KC with Golden Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds and was the only one ever to get it.

    I know they were allowed to purchase the “de Nazified” decorations but I only ever saw them being worn on the ribbon bar.

  33. 33
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC Dutch Expat

    There is every hope that the IslamoFascists will, eventually, be fought by the U.S. and like minded European countries….once they wake the fuck up!!

  34. 34
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Fascinating Joe D. I’ve only read about these guys and you got to meet them. Was not aware Rudel was unrepentant. But then again Kalashnikov is still an unrepent Communist, guess ideologies die hard when you’ve fought for them.

  35. 35
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC 0311 crunchie

    One of the most fascinating times that I had was to be around when the Red River Fighter Pilots Association had a meeting at Ramstein Air Base.
    It included German, Brit, Canadian and US fighter pilots from WW2. Chance of a lifetime to meet living history.

  36. 36
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Hey Joe D

    I thought you only jumped out of planes. Sounds like you spent alot of time with the guys who stay in ‘em :P

  37. 37
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    LC Joe D

    I just realised that I’ve been neglecting your LC title. My apologies.

  38. 38
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC 0311

    Not only that, my area of reading and historical interest is WW2 Japanese Army & Naval Aviation and I have never met a Japanese fighter pilot.

    Go figure.

    P.S. If you’d flown with some of the pilots I have, you’d fucking jump out too!! :0)

  39. 39
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    My dad took tae-kwon-do classes in college from a Japanese kamikaze pilot…go figure!

  40. 40
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC HDD

    They didn’t all complete their runs due to weather, interception, bad navigation, etc. Not being ones to “waste” a good aircraft, pilot and bomb, they returned to base to give it another go later.

    I read of one who stated that the emotional drain, after “psyching” oneself up for the mission was enormous if not completed and having to do it again. Some made more than a couple of forays out and didn’t quite get there…..I guess your dad’s tae-kwon-do instructor was one such pilot.

  41. 41
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    My dad took tae-kwon-do classes in college from a Japanese kamikaze pilot

    Whaaa..??? I guess not a very good one!
    Devildog, either that is the most amazing story I’ve ever heard, or you are snickering at us like a gerbil that just caught the last boat off of Fire Island :)

    LC Joe
    I hear Saburo Sakai is still alive. Never to late. As far as jumping out of planes because of bad pilots, I was once told by a pilot when I asked him if he was any good, that he had an equal amount of take offs and landings. Guess thats a good thing.

  42. 42
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Joe D and crunchie,

    Yes, my father DID take a tae-kwon-do class from a Japanese kamikaze pilot. He joined the kamikaze corps right before the surrender.

    I read a book many years ago written by the Japanese Admiral and General who actually formed the kamikaze corps. It was a fantastic book. I think it was called either Kamikaze!, or maybe it was Divine Wind. It was one of the Baen War Books. I’ve read about 10 books from the series, and all of them were incredible. One of the books was even written by an author who did NOT survive WWII. Baen Books doesn’t actually publish the series anymore, so, you have to find them via second-hand sources. If you see one, get it.

  43. 43
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC 0311 crunchie

    Nope. Saburo Sakai (64 victories) died in Oct(?) 2000 at 84.

    Most of the top aces are gone. I would love to have met him, Nishizawa and Iwamoto. A lot to have talked about!

  44. 44
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC HDD & LC 0311 crunchie

    The book “Divine Wind” is a great book. If you get a chance, try these:

    “Thunder Gods” by Hatsuho Naito. (Hard to find book about the Baka kamikaze pilots)

    “A Glorious Way to Die”. by Russell Spurr (about the kamikaze mission of the battleship Yamamoto)

    “God’s Samurai” by Gordon W. Prange (about Mitsuo Fuchida, lead pilot at Pearl Harbour, who became an evangelical and a preacher, I believe)

    Keep ya busy reading over the Holidays!

  45. 45
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    LC Devildog
    Yeah I figured that was it, but just hearing about a living Kamikaze is one of those things that screams for a punchline.

    Never heard of Baen Books, but I’ll have to look for some. I remember Battaan Books when I was a kid, thats where I read Rudesl account of being a Stuka pilot.

    LC Joe D
    Shoulda known Sakai was gone. Foss died recently as well. McCampbell, Palm Beach County resident, died a few years back. I almost met Boyington about five years before he went at the Wright Patterson Air Show. Don’t know about Bong but I’m not going to bet on it. I guess we’re losing all that generation to fast.

  46. 46
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    crunchie,

    Dick Bong was a Wisconsin pilot. He died in 1946, in a crash while test-flying a new plane.

  47. 47
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    Looks like the Socialist Shitstains of EUnuchistan? have at
    least one thing in common with the kamikaze. They’re also
    on a “self-imposed, one-way trip to self-destruction“.

    Of course, the “Divine Wind” pilots were doing so out of a sense
    of honor & selflessness. The EUrinal is doing it out of stupidity, greed, sloth & selfishness. There’s a HUGE difference.

    F.E.T.E.

  48. 48
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    I guess the operative question really is, which of the top scorers are still alive.

    Did you notice ow there aren’t any spit*fwench* names.

    As a side note I remeber reading about a Rumanian pilot, forgot his name, who was an ace against Russian, American, AND German and Italian pilots. Allied in the first part of the war, German at the end when Rumania switched sides.

  49. 49
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC 0311 crunchie

    Could that have been Capt. Constantin Contacuzino
    with 56 confirmed and 14 probables.

    Also of note was the Finnish pilot Eino Juutilainen with 94 aerial victories.

    Boy, are we WAY off topic!!

    One last question though….who was the top Allied ace of WW2?

  50. 50
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    One last question though….who was the top Allied ace of WW2?

    Snoopy.

  51. 51
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    B.C. gets the lit cigar!

  52. 52
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Um, I thought Snoopy was the enemy of the Red Baron, who was WWI…

  53. 53
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    He cross-trained, dummy.

  54. 54
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    Top allied ace? I believe that would be Johnnie Johnson, RAF, author of “Wing Commander”.

    LC Tom

  55. 55
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC Tom

    That’s what I always thought until some enterprising wag reminded me that the Russians were our allies then and Ivan Kohzedub with 62 victories was the top ALLIED ace!

    BTW, he flew with a Russian wing in the Korean war and had downed 2 American planes. Their top ace in Korea was Evegeni Pepolyaev with 23 victories, including 12 F-86 Sabres.

    Curioser and curioser said Alice!

  56. 56
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    My mistake. Johnson only had 38 confirmed kills. Bong had 40. For what it’s worth the first allied ace was Stanislaw Skalski who had 6 kills during the September 1939 invasion of Poland. He ended the war with 22, and inside a commie prison. Kind of reminiscent of the hero of the Czech film “Dark Blue World”. If you love Spitfires, and can put up with sub-titles, rent that movie!!!

    LC Tom

  57. 57
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    I had a sneaking suspicion it was a soviet. I’m more of a WW1 aviation buff, and the Russian Imperial Air Service had such a deplorable record I tend to discount them. But I should always remember my youngest son’s obsession with Yaks and Migs, and mostly Sturmoviks…the kid even like the Polikparov Rata!

    Actually during the Russian Civil War the Red Air Force was kind of interesting, flying all sorts of neat allied aircraft like Camels and Neiuports. When they fought the Poles in 1919-1920 the Poles had some Fokker DR VIIs, all too kewl…

    LC Tom

  58. 58
    Mark growls and barks:

    Top allied ace? I believe that would be Johnnie Johnson, RAF, author of “Wing Commander”.

    In my opinion – and being British, I should be given the benefit of any doubt – that would be Douglas Bader.

    Bader Legend

    By Robert Taylor

    The Inspired Fighter Leader.

    The loss of both legs in a flying accident brought Douglas Bader’s promising flying career to an abrupt end in 1931. However the outbreak of WWII saw Bader reinstated to the RAF and, complete with artificial legs, piloting a Spitfire in the thick of the action at the time of Dunkirk.

    With the Battle of Britain imminent, Bader was given command of a depleted squadron of young demoralized Canadian pilots following the fall of France. When assigned a new squadron commander with no legs, the pilots of 242 Squadron became even more despondent. Typically, Bader quickly dispelled their doubts with a brilliant and daring aerobatic demonstration in his Hurricane, and within a few weeks the dynamic Squadron Leader transformed the dispirited Canadians into one of the RAF’s elite fighter units.

    Bader had strong ideas on tactics and did not always follow orders. He took the view that RAF fighters should be sent out to meet the German planes before they reached Britain.

    By the time he became Wing Commander at Tangmere he was already a legend. Though his tenure was short – he was brought down over northern France on August 9, 1941 – Bader’s inspired leadership spawned some of WWII’s greatest fighter leaders – Johnnie Johnson, Denis Crowley-Milling, Stan Turner, ‘Cocky’ Dundas, and many others.

    Source: Aviator Art

  59. 59
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Marci,

    and being British, I should be given the benefit of any doubt

    Okay, we’ll use short words.

    that would be Douglas Bader.

    Bader certainly was an inspired pilot, with much courage and panache. But, he wasn’t the top ace. Nowhere in that article does it mention Bader’s kills…which is what we are arguing. If it was sheer panache and fighting spirit, there are quite a few pilots, on ALL sides, who could have claimed that title.

    Being shot down is a double whammy against Bader: first, he wasn’t good enough to keep his plane in the air, and second, it cut short his career. Heck, even “Sailor” Milan managed to get shot down and still keep fighting. Of course, “Sailor” was responsible for almost as many Spitfires being shot down as Bf-109′s…

  60. 60
    LC Xealot growls and barks:

    And to think, this sort of shit is the goal of liberals in this country too. Charity is one thing, it’s voluntary and can help the needy. But Welfare is something entirely different. It’s stealing MY hard earned wages and giving it to someone I don’t know and will never see, and is probably a drunkard and a drug addict.

    I’ve been unemployed before… The dot-com crash hit me pretty hard, and I lost my job as network engineer because the company I worked for went under. But rather than go looking for government handouts, I went and worked at a local department store as a clerk. Sure, it sucked. It paid crap, but damn.. it’s better than trying to collect handouts from the government. Two years later, the dot-com world had recovered enough that I got back into my field again and now make decent money.

    Did I need a handout? Did I need charity? No, all I needed was a little hard work and some time spent swallowing my pride a bit. That’s all anyone needs, liberals, be they in Germany or here in our own country have no work ethic whatsoever. They don’t take pride in doing things by themselves, they take pride in sitting on their ass and calling us evil because we don’t want to subsidize their stupidity.

  61. 61
    Mark growls and barks:

    Bader certainly was an inspired pilot, with much courage and panache. But, he wasn’t the top ace.

    It’s not easy to pull the wool over your eyes, HDd. I concede. Bader’s rated #5 in the list of WWII ace pilots. He proved his ability by bringing down a Messerschmitt Bf109, two Messerschmitt 110, and a Heinkel He111 on 30.08.40 (Battle of Britain).

  62. 62
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    He proved his ability by bringing down a Messerschmitt Bf109, two Messerschmitt 110, and a Heinkel He111 on 30.08.40 (Battle of Britain).

    Kick ass.

  63. 63
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Don’t forget the Finns in all this as well. While I don’t know the exact numbers, they scored some pretty impressive victories against the Soviets in the Russo-finish games, made all the more impressive buy the fact they were flying F-2 Brewster Buffaloes, probably one of the most unforgiving planes of the war. The Corps flew a squadron of em at Midway and got thier asses handed to ‘em. Eino Juutilainen scored 34 victories in a Buffalo (total of 94 for the war)
    and shot down 22 differnt types of Soviet, American and British planes flown by Soviet pilots. 437 sorties and never a hole in his plane!
    Won two Mannerheim Crosses.

    I’m impressed by the “ace in a day” pilots as well. I remember reading about Vern Graham, USN, who shot down five Zeroes in a single mission, in an F-4F Wildcat!

    With todays push button, stand off aerial warfare those type of pilots and deeds are things of legend now.

  64. 64
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    crunchie,

    Don’t forget about the USN pilot (whose name escapes me right now…) who shot down three Zeros in about 2 minutes…the length of time it took the pilot to take off, dogfight, and then get shot down himself. He did that at Midway, as well.

    “Pappy” Boyington also would have been an “ace in a day”, if he wasn’t already an ace when he earned his Navy Cross. He shot down 5 Zeros in a single sortie, but, he was already an ace by that point. Of course, “Pappy” was already an ace by the time the war started, due to his stint with Claire Chenault in China with the Flying Tigers.

  65. 65
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    To me, the best pure dogfighting pilot ever was Baron Mannfred von Richtofen, better known as the Red Baron. Later pilots had more kills, but did it over longer periods of time, and against far inferior opponents. Baron Richtofen also started out WWI as a cavalry officer, who transferred to the Luftwaffe after becoming disillusioned with the role of cavalry in “modern” warfare. 80 or so kills in about two years isn’t a bad career.

  66. 66
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    Hey Devildog…

    Just off the cuff, was that Navy pilot named McCampbell. Just testing my long term memory.

    Tom
    (BTW, weren’t the Finns on the Axis side? Why of course they were…after the Winter War comes the Continuation War and the drive towards Lenningrad through Karelia…still kickass!)

  67. 67
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    LC Devildog

    Have you read “The Blacksheep” by Boyington? Fascinating read. I got interested in him when I was a kid because of the TV series (Marines, Corsairs, I was in heaven). I almost got to meet him once at the Wright Patterson AFB Air Show back in the late 70′s, early 80′s (?). Missed him by about 15 minutes. Did get to see a real Corsair, one of the last flying Zeros, bunch of other cool planes including two Warthogs doing a simulated run on a Soviet tank formation, and the Harrier. None of my friends at school believed me when I said a jet took off and landed like a helicopter!

    Boyingtons’ self-effacing truth about hisself and all the press hooplah over his beating Rickenbachers score, the MOH, and especially his conduct while a POW are exactly the opposite of Robert Conrads character in the TV show. But isn’t that the way it always is.

  68. 68
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Just off the cuff, was that Navy pilot named McCampbell. Just testing my long term memory.

    I don’t think so LC Tom. McCampbell grew up here in Palm Beach County. They named the terminal at PBIA after him, have a whole wall of photos and stuff. He was awarded the MOH for his leadership of his squadron, I think they had the highest kill rate in the Navy. Don’t think he was ever shot down. I could be completely wrong on all this though as I’m going purely by an increasingly faulty memory.

    LC Devildog
    Good point about Richthofen. He was one of the originals. Did you know that his Staffel was taken over by none other than Herman “Meyer” Goring after his death. His brother was a pilot as well. Got pretty messed up in a crash, shot in the face too I think. Once again memory, don’t quote me.

  69. 69
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    yeah, I read Black Sheep Squadron. Although, Pappy himself seemed to say that he WAS as cocky and arrogant as the show made him out to be, and it was only later, as he matured, that he became more humble.

    Pappy’s still the only person to ever receive a MOH posthumously, and show up to receive it…

  70. 70
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    crunchie,

    You are correct, sir. The “Flying Circus” WAS taken over by Hermann Goering after Mannfred’s death, and Lothar von Richtofen was an ace in his own right. Far more bloodthirsty than Mannfred, though. Mannfred didn’t really like how his brother conducted himself. He thought Lothar was too cruel and bloodthirsty for Mannfred’s taste. Mannfred really viewed being a pilot as the last stand of the chivalric knight. When getting his kills became too easy, Mannfred became disillusioned with flying, and may have been trying to defect when he was shot down…which may explain how the world’s best pilot was taken unawares.

  71. 71
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    LC DEvildog
    Yeah, hell of a way to get an MOH. I concede the point about Boyingtons arrogance at the time. The book was written later after he had matured, that was the overall style I remembered from reading it.

    I’m not sure which USN pilot you were mentioning earlier but I found an interesting piece on Lt. James Swett, USMC.

    In his first engagement on 7 April ’43 he shot down three Vals, was hit by friendly fire, then downed four more. He went after an eigth one, which he probably shot down but was only credited with a probable, but the tail gunner shot him down in the process. Eight in one sortie! Was awarded the MOH on 9 October ’43. Finished the war with a total of 15 1/2 kills and 4 probs.

  72. 72
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    I believe the “ace in a day” trophy would go to the “Star of Afrika” – Hans Joachim Marseilles. He shot down 17.

    When looking at the list of German aces who scored over 100 kills one finds Marseille way behind at least 25 other aces, but he ranks above all of them because of his most amazing achievement:He had the highest number of kills against the Western Allies in WWII, thus it can be said that he ranks with Manfred von Richthofen. At one time it seemed as if Adolf Galland would become the “Richthofen” of WWII, but that place was destined for the young Berliner of French descent. It is even more convincing because it was Galland who called Marseille “the unrivalled virtuoso of German fighter pilots”. Praise from Galland was hard to come, especially for rivals. . A lot has been said about the top marksmen of the luftwaffe, and that “Marseille is one of them”, in my opinion, the ace who needed barely fifteen rounds on average for a kill could hardly be called “one of the best” but was “the best” marksman of the Luftwaffe or any other airforce. And I believe it was Rall,”one of the best marksmen” who admitted that Marseille was the man to beat. Marseille died after bailing out from a new Bf109G, hitting his head on the tail,. It seemed the fate of the best to die undefeated in combat, Moelders, Schnauffer(one of the immortal nightfighter aces), Prinz Sayn zu-Wittgenstein(another great nightfighter ace) all went to their deaths in accidents one way or the other.

  73. 73
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    The Baron did see hisself as one of the last true Junkers, aristocratic through and through. Thats why he initially joined the cavalry.Some sense of that Chivalry carried over to WWII as well. I remember the P-47 pilot that got shot up by an FW-190 real bad. He was wounded and the canopy was blown shut so he couldn’t bail. The German pilot emptied all of his ordnance into the Thunderbolt but it wouldn’t go down. The German flew along side, inspected the P-47, salurted and flew off.

    I also vaguely remember a German pilot flying up on a shotup B-17 and seeing wounded men aboard, escorted it out of German airspace! Read that one on a caption of a painting of the event.

  74. 74
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    LC Joe D
    I always thought Marseilles could have beaten Hartman if he hadn’t died so early in the war. He was well on the way.

    Marseilles once flew to a british airfield and braved AA fire to drop a note that one of the squadrons pilots had been shot down and wounded and was being treated by German doctors. Flew the same mission to tell them he had unfortunatley died. That sense of chivalry is long gone.

    I had alwys wondered how so many German pilots had kills in escess of 100+ while most allies were in the 40′s for the highest scores. Then I larned German pilots flew combat until killed, wounded or the war ended. No rotating to IP status. No finished tours. Just flying every day. My uncle Paul was a bombardier on a B-17G late in the war. he had a lot of respect for them. Man he can tell some stories!

  75. 75
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    So much for the German economy going down the shitter…………..

  76. 76
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Yep B.C. I guess that was one hell of a threadjack. At least we’re still talking about Germans.

  77. 77
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    P.S. :)

  78. 78
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Hey B.C. ….I tried to get back on track earlier! :)

  79. 79
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Hey B.C. ….I tried to get back on track earlier! :)

    And gave up pretty quick along with the rest of us, right Joe:)

    Nite Ya All

  80. 80
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Try starting a thread on WW2 aviation….it’s bound to end up about the price of Bratwurst in Berlin.!

  81. 81
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Crunchie,,,sie hatten rechts, mein herr!

    G’night!

  82. 82
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    AAGGHHHH!!! I’m sitting at the real job and away from all my reference material!!

    There is a book of essays that came out last year concerning the first world war, the editor is the editor of Military History Quarterly. Can’t think of the name to save my soul. Maybe the Great War Reconsidered? Anyway, it contains a brilliant essay about Richtofen, and how, far from being “The Red Knight of the Air” was a methodical killer, and a real theorist of air warfare. Good reading.

    As for my favorite WW1 pilot, Hobie Baker, US Air Service, KIA. Not only a fighter pilot, but one of the all time legends of hockey. Played collegiate rather than pro. I’m also rather fond of Quentin Roosevelt, but that’s probably because I like his dad. On the German side, I’d have to go with Boelke, Austrian, Linke-Crawford. British, probably Mick Mannock (all you Albert Ball fans behave!) and Nungeysser for the Frogs!

    LC Tom

  83. 83
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    Neat true story…

    We were all sitting around in roll call (and it was a tac roll call, so you had a bunch of plain clothes cops who thought they were the greatest thing ever, most self absorbed bastards on the job, I know, I was one) one day and one of the guys was talking about a flight simulator game he likes, and how it lets you fly the Me262. This girl from the watch, uniform, sitting there. At this point she looks up and mentions that her grandpa flew those. Turned out he was a luftwaffe pilot. First time a patrolio had amazed us, and I think the whole team fell in love…

    LC Tom

  84. 84
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    Okay, the book is Great War: Perspectives on the First World War edited by Robert Cowley. The essay on Richtofen is “The Warlover” by Robert Wohl. There is another essay in there by Mike Spick entitled “The Fokker Menace” that is also quite good.

    LC Tom

  85. 85
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    BC,

    The German economy is in the shitter. And in related news, bears really do shit in the woods, and the Pope wears a funny hat.

    This article only admits what anyone with half a brain already knew: socialism don’t work.

    Anyway, back to the threadjack…

    In his diary, Mannfred von Richtofen complained about how easy it was becoming to kill Allied pilots, and felt that whatever drew him to flying was gone. So, while he WAS a ruthless killer, as all good warriors are, he wasn’t really thrilled about it. His brother, Lothar, on the other hand, actually enjoyed killing. He finished in the top 10 of German WWI aces, IIRC.

    How can we talk about WWI pilots, and not talk about Immelman?! Yeah, he died early, but, when he did die, french and British planes were given a truce to drop wreaths at his funeral. Now THERE was a respected warrior, by friends and foe alike. Mannfred really liked him…

  86. 86
    SDN growls and barks:

    Down here at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery (home of the Air War College), they’ll have what they call a “Gathering of Eagles”, where they have the top living pilots from all sides and eras come in for two or three days. Always a treat!

  87. 87
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    Ahh, Germany. Lovely place to visit, wouldn’t live there for anything.

    One of my German colleagues (a child of the Marshall Plan rebuilding era with no love at all for the Social State) gave me some excellent insight into their system a few years ago. He told me of an extremely generous* maternity leave law (not sure if it was just in Bavaria or Federal) which gave small businesses an excellent reason not to hire female help at all (*generous = the government was generous with the employer’s money). The employee got full pay for a year, half-pay an additional year, and leave without pay for a third year before the employer could actually decide she wasn’t coming back (that pay came out of the employer’s pocket, totally aside from any paymetns form the State). One shopkeeper was facign bankruptcy because she had decided she needed to hire a girl to help; as soon as she was hired that one became pregnant, as did her temp replacement, and as did the third temp. The shopkeeper was paying three salaries (plus of course all the various benefit taxes and levies on the wages) and had no more additional help than when she took the initial fateful decision, relaly leaving her no option but to close the doors or lose everything.

    Because of pervasive regulation and other equally-Socialist labor laws, it was extremely difficult to progress from a family-member-only business to what we think of as a small business (like a Subchapter S Corp). Business was all either Mom-and-Pops or megacorporations, in between there was just too much risk and admin overhead for the return.

    On the other hand, they have ideas about “the proper role of women” that would get their asses sued off in the U.S. — in fact to me it looked like their maternity leave was a left-handed way of keeping women out of highly-competitive professions, since a woman who actually availed herself of the up-to-three-years-out rules would drop irretrievably far behind her peers, and all the more so if she had more than one child.

    They do love to regulate things, whether they need regulating or not. Stereotypical but oh so true.

  88. 88
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    DAT

    I lived there for a grand total of almost 7 years (2 tours) and it was, indeed, a lovely place to visit (even for such an extended period but, then again, I did not have to “live” under their system).

    Scenery, history, quaint medieval customs, great beer and food, travel all made it memorable BUT I would not have wanted to live under their system.

    It even extended into the Bundeswehr. If an NCO/Officer felt inundated by the amount of work and pressure, he was allowed a “Kur”. He got to go to a quiet little town with a spa for a few weeks to “recover” at the taxpayers expense…everything!
    In the Canadian Army, at that time, an NCO/Officer with such complaints would have had his lazy ass kicked around the parade square and an RSM’s swagger stick placed daintily into his ring piece and jammed until it stopped at his tonsils.

    Nothing like retreating from tough situations and taking a “healing” bath, playing pool and lounging whilst better men have to carry the load back at the unit. Just one aspect of an upgefucked system.

    Did US tankers get to take a “kur”? lol

  89. 89
    Catracks growls and barks:

    I just read the story about Switzerland and how they are still packing over there. Crime rate is low too. Gun & militia = good country.

    Since the monarchy left Germany, they have still not figured out how to run the country. It seems that they love to be told what to do in extreme detail.

    When I was on manuevers in Germany, I got a case of trenchfoot and was told to keep my socks dry and stop bothering people. Sick call is for slackers. Kur is for lasy assed wussies.

  90. 90
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    Oh yes, the “Kur,” another incredible German labor law scam on top of the Summer “Ferien” (Like France, the whole place shuts down for about four weeks in August for everyone to take vacation). The Kur doesn’t count as vacation, because after all it’s “sick leave.” I guess it keeps the spa industry in business, including those scenic mountain Gasthausen.
    Hmmm, in the years I was there, younger and more able to handle the rigourous regimen of mind and body training required for it, the only Kur available to us young DATs was a variant of the water cure which could best be called “Bierkur.”
    See you at the Bierkurort, “bitte ein Bitt’!”

  91. 91
    Stu Ped growls and barks:

    My granpa was a Polish kamikazie pilot.

    27 missions.

  92. 92
    jasher growls and barks:

    What on earth are they moving to London for? Have they not heard what is going on here in the Socialist republic of britain? We are all trying to get out!!!

  93. 93
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    What on earth are they moving to London for? Have they not heard what is going on here in the Socialist republic of britain? We are all trying to get out!!!

    Posted by jasher at December 20, 2004 03:31 PM

    I guess when you’re that far down in the pit, one or two rungs up the ladder looks good.

  94. 94
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Bittburger Pils in Baumholder! Ah, the good old days!

  95. 95
    LC ima mommy growls and barks:

    crunchie, joe.d., tom, devildog, tanker…the wealth of knowledge you guys possess is a thing of beauty! Listening to you all makes me want to go out and devour a history book or something :)
    Thanks for the entertainment for the brain tonight.

  96. 96
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    LC ima mommy

    It’s not so much a wealth of knowledge darlin’!
    In my case it’s just an old fart that’s been around the world twice and around the block a hundred times as they say. I can’t speak for the other young’uns! {:-)

  97. 97
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    I just fell asleep in the same room as a book, once…

  98. 98
    J F Karr growls and barks:

    Bemoaning its stagnant economy, lack of flexibility, negativity and over-regulation, all of which they say is strangling their business, the couple will move to north London in February.

    Out of the frying pan…

    “We have no desire to stay in a country which is suffering from a chronic bad mood.”

    So you’re moving to England—the surliness capital of the world?

    One thing about beating your head against the wall is, it feels so good when you stop. So stop already!

  99. 99
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    LC ima mommy, what a very gracious thing to say. However, I suspect the version of history you would get from us, and our family folklore of the WWII generation, is far too, ummm, “untidy” to ever make it into acceptable history books!

    ;o)

  100. 100
    LC Mary in LA, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    The “untidy” part is what makes it so good! :-)
    And, seriously, so important. IMHO, real history is in the details.

  101. 101
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    LC ima mommy

    Thanks darlin’ but I have to go along with Devildog. Gotta bunch books in my den and I think osmosis or something sets in after awhile.
    But like I’ve said before, the real thing (history) beats fiction every time.

    DAT and LC Mary, yep the “untidy” stuff is the best.

  102. 102
    klih growls and barks:

    I smell propaganda here, but i dont care! I know that only americans are stupid enough to believe it!
    P.s. Shouldn’t you beg for germany to come to rescue you out of Irag? Another 22 soldiers dead thnx to your inexperienced army!

  103. 103
    klih growls and barks:

    p.s. how is the american economy doing? Not well ha! Wo a deficit! Lucky for you china and europe fill it for you!

  104. 104
    klih growls and barks:

    At least they can build decent cars!

  105. 105
    klih growls and barks:

    Mind your own business;

    Record U.S. Trade Deficit Undercuts American Job

    June 15?The outlook for manufacturing workers and their families worsened in April when the U.S. trade deficit reached a record $48.3 billion, surpassing the previous record of $46.6 billion set in March, the U.S. Commerce Department reported. This is the fourth consecutive month the trade deficit has hit a record mark.

    More than 2.7 million U.S. manufacturing jobs have disappeared in the past three years, in large part because of imports that are produced more cheaply than they can be manufactured in this country. Many of those products are made in China, where workers? rights are routinely violated to keep wages low.

    ?We?re losing too many jobs. Plants are shutting down because of cheap imports. We need to wake people up as to where our jobs are going,? says Dennis Walter, a member of Steelworkers Local 6521 in Altoona, Pa.

  106. 106
    klih growls and barks:

    It’s official: America Sucks

    I finally got around to seeing Michael Moore’s Bowling for Columbine today. I’m speechless. Combine the content of this movie with Against Empire, Shrub: The short, but happy political life of George W. Bush, and Stupid White Men makes for a sobering realization: America really does suck!

    Horrific foreign policy that has seen us support murderous dictators such as General Agusto Pinochet and Saddam Hussein. Black Americans earned 61% less than white Americans, which, incidently, is the same earning rate recorded in 1880 (no that’s not a typo). We kill over 10,000 of our neighbors each year with guns, while Japan kills about 60 (remember the Japanese bring us Mortal Combat and the crazy Anime). The richest 1 percent of the country is making 157 percent more than they were in 1979, while those Americans in the bottom 20% are actually making $100 less per year (adjusted for inflation). To top it off we have a President who has threatened to shut down the White House AIDS office, denied college aid to drug offenders (murderers are still eligable), despite being a drug abuser himself, and cut $39 million in aid to libraries.

    Yup, it’s a great time to live in America. We’re a bunch of peace loving, caring people aren’t we? If you are as mad as I am please contact your Senator or Representative.

  107. 107
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    I smell propaganda here, but i dont care! I know that only americans are stupid enough to believe it!
    P.s. Shouldn’t you beg for germany to come to rescue you out of Irag? Another 22 soldiers dead thnx to your inexperienced army!

    Posted by klih at December 22, 2004 11:25 AM

    Yep, NOBODY can lose wars as thoroughly as the Germans!

  108. 108

    It’s official: America Sucks [...snip...]

    Klih, unless you’re secretly JoeStump in disguise, I do believe you’ve plagiarized him.

    Pretty pathetic when you can’t even be decent enough to cite the source of the words you’re parroting.

  109. 109
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    …And furthermore, the words “experienced” and “Bundeswehr” do not belong in the same book, let alone the same sentence.

  110. 110
    LC Defense Guy growls and barks:

    klih

    We rescued your ass. If not for this sooper evil country, you would still be kowtowing to your emperor. You know, living under a real tyranny.

    No need to thank us, just do us a favor and go fuck yourself. Thanks.

  111. 111
    LC Bishop, Imperial Titweasel growls and barks:

    If you are as mad as I am please contact your Senator or Representative.

    Klih, if I were as mad as you are, I’d be taking anti-psychotics.

  112. 112
    David St Lawrence growls and barks:

    B. C puts it so succintly:

    ” social retards with the cognitive abilities of lukewarm hamster vomit.”

    I must visit more often. :)

  113. 113
    Lord Spatula I, K&T growls and barks:

    I smell propaganda here, but i dont care!

    That’s coming out of your own ass, fuckhead!  When was the last time you wiped?  Ew.

    I know that only americans are stupid enough to believe it!

    Truth has that effect on us, yes.

    P.s. Shouldn’t you beg for germany to come to rescue you out of Irag? Another 22 soldiers dead thnx to your inexperienced army!
    Posted by klih at December 22, 2004 11:25 AM

    And the Germans won their last war…when again, dumbass?

    p.s. how is the american economy doing?

    Up another 4 percent, thank you very much.  How’s your precious German  suck-conomy doing, fuckface? (snicker)

    Not well ha! Wo a deficit! Lucky for you china and europe fill it for you!

    So?  We also ran a deficit last time we kicked your  skanky ass, didn’t we?

    At least they can build decent cars!

    Oh, yeah.  Get a load of that Volkswagon Toe-rag! (snicker)

    Mind your own business

    Shame you didn’t take your own advice.  When I  can hand your your ass in here, you have a problem. (guffaw)

    Record U.S. Trade Deficit Undercuts American Job

    When Der Spiegel  writes your economic policy and it turns out to be successful, we’ll talk.  Until then, it’s nothing but a hack job by a failed tabloid in a beaten country.

    Sucks to be you, doesn’t it?

    It’s official: America Sucks

    It’s official:  You’re a fucking douchebag.

    And the next  time you hog bandwidth by posting an entire article instead of a link – will be your last time, chump.

    Bank on it, asswipe.

  114. 114
    lmkj growls and barks:

    [Goodbye, chump.  -The Management™]

  115. 115
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    LC ima mommy,

    Thank you for the kind words, they are appreciated. I did compile some of the assorted wisdom and am terrified it will be poorly received in book form when it comes out next month!

    LC Tom

  116. 116
    LC mrs heather, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    If not for this sooper evil country, you would still be kowtowing to your emperor. You know, living under a real tyranny.

    Naw, this little schnitzel would’ve been gassed.

  117. 117
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    Despite its apparent love affair with the Kamerads, klipshit has a Japanese ISP for its email, I expect that’s what the “Emperor” shot was addressing.
    Either way, it’s a little Axis-fixated beyatch.

  118. 118
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    Thank you for the kind words, they are appreciated. I did compile some of the assorted wisdom and am terrified it will be poorly received in book form when it comes out next month!

    LC Tom
    Title and publisher please? Can’t buy it if I don’t know what it’s called!

  119. 119
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    I suppose klih/Imkj was the asian version of the belgian ass-monkey.

    He actually thought Michigan Fats was telling the truth!

    That alone puts him in the finals for the “Dumb F**k Troll Of The Year” award for 2004.

  120. 120
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    Just an experiment:

    Airbus sucks! Those poorly manufactured Boeing knock-offs are a disaster waiting to happen!

  121. 121
    klih growls and barks:

    My weenie is hard from thinking of having Michael Moore’s pendulus belly fat bumping up against my nose! I’ll keep on believing all those lies and stay stupid, because I like going through life like that!

    (You were banned, fuckweasel. Not a very quick learner, are you? —The Managementr

  122. 122
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    Nope. It’s the Belgian nut-licker, alright. Its latest banned IP is 80.201.163.253.

  123. 123
    LC Mary in LA, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    Cool, E-man! Just like clockwork. Here, let me try it:

    <trollbait>

    L’Airbus c’est nul! Rien qu’une mauvaise copie de Boeing. Vraiment, un desastre volant plongeant!

    </trollbait>


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