Give Us ONE GOOD REASON Why The Murderer(s?) Shouldn’t Swing From A Tree

(Note: Clear all throwables from the room before reading on.)

Amber Alert issued after fetus removed from mother’s body

(CNN) — Missouri authorities issued an Amber Alert for an infant who may have survived after a woman was slain and a fetus removed from her body.

Bobbi Jo Stinnett, who was eight months’ pregnant, was killed Thursday afternoon in her home in Skidmore in northwestern Missouri, the Nodaway County Sheriff’s Department said.

The initial Amber Alert said that “the fetus was extracted from the victim.”

A statement from the sheriff’s department said the fetus was removed by the same “person or persons” who killed Stinnett.

Authorities said Stinnett was killed at around 3 p.m. (4 p.m. ET).

The alert said that the suspect “has blond hair and [is] possibly driving a red vehicle.”

It advised people to look for bloody clothing or towels and said the infant could have health issues and would have a freshly cut umbilical cord if alive.

Authorities said that Stinnett was a white woman and the offspring also was believed to be a white female.

Go ahead. Try to justify keeping the perp(s?) alive and breathing at taxpayers’ expense.

Update: 3:38 P.M. CST: The BABY (for all you Dimwitted, Drooling Dumbfucks of the Despoiled Underpantsr) has been found and is, apparently, alive.

SKIDMORE, Mo. ? An infant believed to be the fetus cut from its murdered mother’s womb was found alive in the state of Kansas Friday, according to police.

Uhhhhhhhhh……… That would be an “infant”, not a “fetus”, guys. It’s not an “either/or” prospect. No middle ground here.

An adult man and woman were at the home where the baby was found and are believed to be in custody.

The sad part of that sentence is that they’re “believed to be in custody
instead of being “in the County Morgue“.

Update II 9:09 P.M. CST: The festering whore has confessed to strangling Bobbie Jo and cutting out her baby and abducting it.

According to a criminal complaint, Lisa M. Montgomery admitted she strangled Bobbie Jo Stinnett and took her baby. The complaint also said Montgomery lied to her husband about giving birth, although U.S. Attorney Todd Graves declined to give a motive for the crime.

No plea bargain. Trial. Conviction. Death sentence. Appeal. Deny the appeal. Carry out the sentence. All in a week.

F.E.T.E.

192 comments

  1. 1
    Special Ed, Half-Vast Conspirator growls and barks:

    That’s a whole new kind of f*cked up.

  2. 2
    Rachel growls and barks:

    We had this happen near here a few years ago. A woman was abducted near the end of her pregnancy, and then a few weeks later a different woman showed up at the children’s hospital with a dead newborn, and then later they found the mother’s body in a dump in Mexico. It drove my husband and me bananas that they kept referring to the baby in the news as a “fetus”. HELLO, it’s OUT of the mother, it’s full-term, what OTHER excuse do you have for trying to trivialize this little person’s life? They did the same thing with Connor (Laci’s baby).

    In this case it was some psycho woman who had worked at the mother’s maternity clinic who did it. The woman pretended to be pregnant and threw herself baby showers, as she was plotting to kidnap this pregnant woman and cut her open to steal her baby. EVIL SICK PERSON. And yes, she’s still alive somewhere.

  3. 3
    LC Bishop, Imperial Titweasel growls and barks:

    Some things simply beggar the imagination. I know that there are depraved monsters in this world, but how can anyone, with the slightest remnant of humanity do this?

    I’m with BC on this.

  4. 4
    LC Wil growls and barks:

    The only reason not to swing ‘em from a tree is because something better comes along.

    Ol’ Sparky would be too kind, IMHO.

    “Proud Charter Member of the VRWC since 1964.”

  5. 5
    Tsuki Hoseki growls and barks:

    It bothers Tsuki very much to know that the person who did this breathes the same air she does.

    Tsuki would fix that, if she could.

  6. 6
    LC & IB Beaker growls and barks:

    In response to some whining moonbat’s cry of “violence doesn’t solve anything,” I remember my Dad saying the most profound thing I ever heard. I offer it here as Ballinger’s Law.

    Violence can solve anything, if you use enough violence.

    It can be applied to this sub-humans in this thread, and the moonbats in the last thread, and in the one before that…

  7. 7
    LC & IB delftsman3 growls and barks:

    Tsuki, you would have to wait in line to fix the problem of this offal on two legs still breathing the same air we are, given the opportunity.

  8. 8
    DumbAss Tanker growls and barks:

    Un-fucking-believable, if not unprecedented. The human capacity for depravity truly seems to know no bounds.

    It also bothers me that the baby is still being referred to as a “possibly-live fetus” as well. It was either a live baby or a dead near-term fetus right off the bat.

    Times like this, the 8th Amendment doesn’t look like such a good idea after all.

  9. 9
    Chris growls and barks:

    I’m sorry to say that it’s cheaper to have some one in prison for life without parole than it’s to give them the death penalty. Yes I know it sounds stupid but it’s true. Until more bloody minded indiveduals like myself push for tort reform and stop allowing apeals ad infinitum for these ass clownes we have to leave them alive to save tax money… after tort reform we can take them behind the courthouse and shoot them like the vermine they are.

  10. 10
    LC ima mommy growls and barks:

    This is going to drive the pro-abortion people nuts…we’re putting out amber alerts for a FETUS?? As Rush just said, why would we be searching for a mass of tissue? That’s all an unborn fetus is right?

    This is where the pro-abortion debate loses all credibility (not that it had any to begin with.) When does a tissue mass become a baby? Is it at 6wks when my baby’s heart started beating? Is it at 8wks when my little one started moving spontaneously? Is it 10 wks when I looked at a sonogram and saw a tiny face looking up at me? When does a “Choice” become a “Child”?

    The poor, poor family of this woman. Imagine losing your wife in such a horrific manner, and then learning that your only child is out there in the murderer’s arms. Pray for a helpful tip for the cops in MO.

  11. 11
    salvage growls and barks:

    Go ahead. Try to justify keeping the perp(s?) alive and breathing at taxpayers’ expense.

    Sure.

    1) Innocent till proven guilty in a court of law
    2) They might be legally insane and therefore not legally responsible for their actions
    3) Death penalty is more expensive than life-time incarceration to the tax payers.
    4) Death penalty is soft on crime, I?d like to see the evil that did this (after conviction) spend the rest of their lives in a tiny room surrounded by animals that will kill them given a chance. Now that?s suffering, whereas the death penalty is a slight stab followed by a bit of pain as organs shut down, like falling asleep in a very uncomfortable bed but still quick.

  12. 12
    LC Cromagnon growls and barks:

    Hangin’s too good for ‘em. Let’s hope the perps give the cops a hard time and have to be shot dead. They could use the old Southern excuse, “But, Your Honor, they needed killin’”.

    Now excuse me while I go and be sick.

  13. 13
    LC Cromagnon growls and barks:

    Salvage, ESAD. That’s what they did to the man who killed my grandfather. SOB escaped twice and finally died of old age. Justice?

  14. 14
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    And the obfuscation from our resident *spit* Frenchperson *spit* begins….

    I’ll leave the LC’s to play Whack-a-Troll? whilst I attend the Princess’ class Christmas party.
    (Yep. That’s right. “Christmas” party.)

  15. 15
    StumpMan growls and barks:

    When they find the freaks who did this, I’m all for the chair…

    Just pop the juice to them, and send the electric bill to their parents.

    *ZZZZZZZap!*

    F E T E

    LC StumpmMan
    but in this case, I’d buck for a promotion to executioner.

  16. 16
    Xealot growls and barks:

    I don’t get why the death penalty should be so expensive. I mean think about it… how much does the electricity cost? Or maybe you’d just buy a bullet or two… even a rope to swing from. These are all cheap. This spend life in prison waiting for your death sentence is crap.

    When you leave the courthouse after your appeal… the firing squad should be waiting right outside… especially for such disgusting foul subhumans like this baby-stealer.

  17. 17
    salvage growls and barks:

    LC Cromagnon -

    LC Cromagnon -

    I have no idea, that’s for you and your family to decide. Asking me this would require me knowing the facts so obviously I can?t make any judgment on it. Instead we (North Americans with nearly symmetrical systems of justice) have courts, lawyers and juries against chaos and evil. It’s a far from perfect method that fails as often or perhaps even more, than succeeds. So far it’s the best anyone has come up with and the alternatives are much worse.

  18. 18
    rmc growls and barks:

    We had the exact same thing happen in Illinois 8-10 years ago. Victim was a woman in her 8th month with 3 other kids. A registered nurse and 2 accomplices killed the woman and her 10 year old daughter, and performed a C-section and stole the baby. They took the other kids, two boys age 7 and 18 months, to an aunt’s. Returned the next day and killed the 7 year old to keep him quiet, but he had already told his aunt everything. The nurse and one of the accomplices were sentenced to death, but their sentences were commuted to life by former governor George Ryan in 2002 right before he left office.

    Illinois has had a lot of problems administering capital punishment fairly and accurately; there have been about a dozen exonerations of convicted men who were later excluded by DNA evidence. But some cases admit no doubt and just beg for the death penalty–this was one of them.

  19. 19
    LC Defense Guy growls and barks:

    I had a long conversation the other day about the problems with the death penalty and how we might fix it, or get rid of it. I take it all back. I want to kill this bastard, bring him back from the dead, and then kill him again. Oh, and I want it to be painful, both times.

  20. 20
    mikmoorhaznodik growls and barks:

    Salvage, judging from your statement “we (North Americans with nearly symmetrical systems of justice) I believe you to be a Canadian. If I’m incorrect please excuse me. I must disagree with your opposition to the death penalty. The death penalty is the only true defense agaist repeat muderers like the one refrred to in LC cromagnon’s post. Nothing can prevent a killer from murdering again if they choose to. If you put them in jail they can escape or be mistakenly released. Aside from that, as a Canadian myself I would like to request that you refrain from participating in our country’s favorite pastime, lecturing Americans and acting holier than thou. Lc Cromagnon’s family suffered a loss from a murder. Instead of lecturing him on his political views express your condolences then SHUT UP! XXXOOO luv. mikmoorhaznodik (aka LC Dusty)

  21. 21

    SICK. FUCK. SHIT. MOTHERFUCKER!

    And Salvage – RTFP! What’s going to be your first reaction? Hug the perps? Jesus Fuck, boy. This is one example where Islamic Sharia could be used.

    Nothing more to add.

    There you go.

  22. 22
    Tsuki Hoseki growls and barks:

    1) Innocent till proven guilty in a court of law

    B.C. said “the perp(s?), meaning “the perpetrators,” meaning “THE GUILTY PARTY,” not “the accused.”

    2) They might be legally insane and therefore not legally responsible for their actions

    Of course they are insane: Sane people do not murder pregnant women and carve their unborn babies out of them. Being insane does not mean they should not be held responsible for their actions and executed. One does not blame a rabid dog for having rabies, but one still puts it down.

    3) Death penalty is more expensive than life-time incarceration to the tax payers.

    This is only because of the legal fees involved in allowing scumbags to appeal their sentences until they die of old age. Stop allowing that, and it will be very cheap to execute scumbags.

    4) Death penalty is soft on crime

    No, it isn’t. Tsuki is quite sure Death is as hard as it gets.

    I?d like to see the evil that did this (after conviction) spend the rest of their lives in a tiny room surrounded by animals that will kill them given a chance. Now that?s suffering, whereas the death penalty is a slight stab followed by a bit of pain as organs shut down, like falling asleep in a very uncomfortable bed but still quick.

    There are people who oppose the Death Penalty who say, “It won’t bring the victim’s back.”

    Neither will letting the murderer sit in prison for the rest of their life, says Tsuki.

    It is not necessary to make the murderer “suffer,” any more than it is necessary to “punish” them. Murder calls for execution because Justice demands it: The scales must be balanced, and those who takes lives should forfeit their own.

  23. 23
    Tsuki Hoseki growls and barks:

    Tsuki owes the nice Justice & “scales” imagery to a certain person whose initials are not really T.L. (^_^)

  24. 24
    LCDusty growls and barks:

    Good post Tsuki. Your opinions are always a pleasure to read. Our laws are a reflection of our core beliefs. As such, the death penalty is not only justified in certain cases but even unfortunately, sometimes required.

  25. 25
    Mikey growls and barks:

    So what if the death penalty is more expensive? You gonna quibble over a few measley dollars so not to do what needs to be done?

  26. 26
    salvage growls and barks:

    If I’m incorrect please excuse me.

    On that you?re not.

    Nothing can prevent a killer from murdering again if they choose to.

    Paul Bernardo?s hasn?t killed anyone, nor has the Manson Family, nor have the majority of incarcerated killers. Sure some kill again in prison (I find myself unable to get too upset about scumbags killing scumbags) and on rare occasion some escape because of flaws in the system. They could as easily escape from death row so that?s not really much of a point. Also those same flaws can put an innocent person to death. It?s not quite a clean cut as you make it out to be.

    Aside from that, as a Canadian myself I would like to request that you refrain from participating in our country’s favorite pastime, lecturing Americans and acting holier than thou.

    Blow me. This is a comments section, I?m commenting on the post. Where I live has nothing to do with it and Canada?s favorite pastime is drinking and bitching about the cold. If you want to suck up to the regulars here may I suggest you do it in a more subtle fashion?

    What’s going to be your first reaction? Hug the perps? Jesus Fuck, boy. This is one example where Islamic Sharia could be used.

    Yeah that?s exactly what I said, he or she should be hugged and sent to group therapy with bunnies and kitties then given a daytime chat show. If you want to have Sharia then move to Iran, here we have laws that are more interested in justice than vengeance.

    The death penalty on the surface seems like justice, it?s awfully tempting, who doesn?t want blood for a crime like this? The problem is that what happens when the wrong person is convicted and killed? Thanks to DNA how many innocent people have been released? Thanks to the death penalty how many innocent people have been killed?
    I don?t worry about the murders, I worry about the innocent. You can let someone out of jail if the system has made a mistake you can?t let someone out of the grave.

    I used to be on the fence about it until I read Dead Man Walking, (the movie is a squished version of the book, it?s good but it misses a lot) it lays out pretty much every argument why the death penalty doesn?t work / make sense far better than I ever could.

    Oh and Jesus, I wonder how He’d feel about the death penalty?

  27. 27
    Deathknyte growls and barks:

    Quite simply, whoever did this is one sick puppy. We shoot rabid dogs don’t we?

    Even if they were insane and we later fixed them so they arn’t insane, why would they want to live knowing what they did?

    More merciful to shoot them while they are still insane.

    Yeesh, mercy shootings…. I must be going soft.

  28. 28
    Deathknyte growls and barks:

    Yeah that?s exactly what I said, he or she should be hugged and sent to group therapy with bunnies and kitties then given a daytime chat show.

    I suspect you might be insane.

    Oh and Jesus, I wonder how He’d feel about the death penalty?

    Jesus would tell the sicko its not his job to forgive, it’s his fathers…. then hand him over to the nearest centurions.

  29. 29
    LC Wil growls and barks:

    ..by salvage at December 17, 2004 11:31 AM:
    2) They might be legally insane and therefore not legally responsible for their actions

    AND THAT’S JUST ANOTHER DAMN THING THAT PISSES ME JUST WAY THE HELL OFF ‘they might be insane….”

    Of COURSE they’re fuckin’ insane – WHY THE HELL ELSE WOULD THEY DO SOME SICK SHIT LIKE THIS!!

    Precisely, what in HELL does that have to do with anything? As far as I am concerned, that ANOTHER reason to toast the bastards. I Don’t want anyone this evil (sane / insane makes no difference to me) breathing my air.

    And another thing – who says the death penalty doesn’t deter crime? No one who has been successfully executed has ever gotten so much as a traffic ticket later.

    “Proud Charter Member of the VRWC since 1964.”

  30. 30
    LC Brian B, WotAP growls and barks:

    Give Us ONE GOOD REASON Why The Murderer(s?) Shouldn’t Swing From A Tree

    Because hanging is neither slow nor painful enough.

  31. 31
    AlexinCT growls and barks:

    Your honor the defense will prove that our client was just an abortion doctor making a hous call!!!

  32. 32
    AlexinCT growls and barks:

    salvage:”2) They might be legally insane and therefore not legally responsible for their actions”

    Can you name me any sane people that do this kind of shit? The point is you have to have screws loose to be a murderer, and lawyers have twisted this to keep their clients from their just punsihment.

  33. 33
    Elizabeth growls and barks:

    I sure remember “The Mecklenburg Six.” Six death row inmates escaped death row in Virginia and were on the lam for several months. Two of them were James and Linwood Briley, who between them murdered 13 PEOPLE (I INCLUDE THE BABY THEY CARVED OUT OF THE MOTHER AFTER KILLING HER, HER BOYFRIEND AND HER 4 YEAR OLD SON).

    They’re dead now. And they won’t be able to do that again.

    Elizabeth
    Imperial Keeper

  34. 34
    Special Ed, Half-Vast Conspirator growls and barks:

    Well, now, salvage is right about a couple of things. We must follow the laws ourselves and find the perps guilty in court. Allow the one appeal mandated by law, in a timely fashion.* Beyond that, execute them in the fashion legalized in that state.
    If a mistake is somehow made, and the executed shown to innocent, make damned sure you go right out and find the REAL killer. And charge him with accessory to the execution of an innocent, since he was one of the only two who knew for absolute certain that the executed was, in fact, innocent.

    And if I was that innocent, I would accept the execution as a “good faith” attempt on the part of society to perform the greatest good. And shit happens because God has a sense of humor.

    *And if the defense isn’t ready – Too bad, so sad.
    Fry ‘em.

  35. 35
    LC ms heather, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    If Justice was swift and severe, something this evil wouldn’t be happening.

    If Capital Punishment didn’t take decades to mete out, one would fear committing such horrible things.

    I actually didn’t know whether I wanted Life in Prison or the Death Penalty for Scott Peterson. What’s the difference nowadays? My only hope is that he gets to mingle with the other inmates who might be able to carry out the Justice he should get.

  36. 36
    B. Durbin growls and barks:

    The term has changed, but the concept has not. Psychopaths, sociopaths, or simply people who think of other people as things (hat tip to Terry Pratchett) are a danger to society. You use Charles Manson as an example of “no danger”; I counter with Ted Bundy.

    Basically, the sad fact is that there are some people who are incapable of redemption; they do not understand that other people are real in any sense that matters to them. Once such a personality reveals itself in this manner of act, it is necessary to apply the death penalty for the good of society (society being defined as all non-sociopathic people.)

    You don’t do it in anger, because these types do not deserve anger. They’ve removed themselves from that realm. You do it in sorrow for the lives they’ve taken. Then you forget that they ever existed? a true punishment for someone who thinks of themself as the only “real” person.

  37. 37
    Alex growls and barks:

    It’s not right for us to put a person in an electric chair, hang them or inject lethal poison in a person. If he/she slits a woman stomach open, then the punishment should be slitting the guity person’s stomach. The punishment should fit the crime. This process will save us money from having to go through the punishment phase of the trial and the criminals will have a clear understanding of what happen to victim will happen to them.

  38. 38
    Brass growls and barks:

    Hey, they only did it because they needed the stem cells to bring Christopher Reeve back from the dead, or something like that.

  39. 39
    Anton growls and barks:

    B. Durbin

    That is a very excellent point you made.

    And everybody is hitting the nail on the head that the insane are the only that can do something this sick and heinous. Insane does not mean not culpablity. In fact, insane really means a constant desire to destroy and harm (although that desire can masked).

    For this reason, it is best to rid society of sick fuckers you did this crime, to protect society from itself.

    As far as accidentally executing the innocent, I really wonder about that. I know that Illinois have had quite a few cases proven that some were wrongly convicted; but, I really do not think that is the norm in our criminal justice system.

    Anybody have any real data supporting this?

  40. 40
    Darth Apathy growls and barks:

    “Because hanging is neither slow nor painful enough.”

    What about using the perp as a “human” (and I use the term loosely) pinata?

  41. 41
    bob growls and barks:

    Salvage
    I’m not a “regular” poster here, and I’m not sucking up to anyone.
    Since this was an incident in America, please stay out of it.
    Bob

  42. 42
    LC Brian B, WotAP growls and barks:

    “Because hanging is neither slow nor painful enough.”

    What about using the perp as a “human” (and I use the term loosely) pinata?

    I suggest leaving the perp bound in a locked, windowless room with the family of his victim for as long as they require.

  43. 43
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    If I might, I’d like to quote Metallica, or perhaps Megadeath, when I address the ‘perps’:

    DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE !

    …sick, twisted som’ bitches….gimme 5 minutes with them. I’ll even put the small arsenal of firearms away and just use sharp, pointy things on them…( like razor blades and machettes..)
    Justice could only be served by their deaths or someone doing this to their mama’s….

    ( did as ordered; removed all throwables before reading the story..)

  44. 44
    Operative Darklion growls and barks:

    Very good points are made, but the perp must die, there is no way around it. Hanging is too quick a punishment for this/these jackal(s). It’s literally time to go mideval on them, perhaps for several days before he’s gutted and beheaded, as was depicted of William Wallace in the movie lionheart.

    Then stick his head on a pike as a warning to others, as well as a list of what was done to him posted on said pike, as further deterrent.

    Time to dodge the ACLU Black Ops again. :)

  45. 45
    Xealot growls and barks:

    It’s interesting to note that in prison, many child molesters, baby-killers, etc… are brutalized and often killed by fellow inmates. Even the gangsters and thugs, career criminals… hate people like this. Shouldn’t that tell us something?

    Even a convicted felon might have some tiny mote of conscience in him. But serial killers, someone who molests children, or in this case, rips one out of a mother’s womb… have none at all. People who are beyond redemption should be killed. No good can come from their existence… Remove the threat to other men… and then leave it to God.

  46. 46
    Stormcat growls and barks:

    I tend to base my judgements on whether someone could get the death penalty not on the suffering of the victim, the cost to society, or what the convicted ‘deserves’. I base it on one simple question: What is in society’s best interest? Is this person likely to do it again? If so, then remove them from it and let the gods sort it out.

    Personally, I rather think it’s fitting for this person to spend the next three or four lifetimes unable to bear children. I’m also in favor of psychological punishment — after all, physical punishment is the most fleeting and leaves the fewest scars. Stocks to me are a really creative form of punishment, with a stipulation that nobody is allowed to touch the offender.

  47. 47
  48. 48
    LC BattleofthePyramids growls and barks:

    Salvage:

    1. No one here is saying we should not give this piece of filth a fair trial before we execute him.

    2. If he (or she, I guess) was sane enough to commit the crime why is he not sane enough to be punished for it? How else can you ensure a murderer will not murder again? Can you design an escape proof prison? Neither can I.

    3. Death penalty is more expensive ONLY becuase of our endless appeals court system. It clearly needs to be streamlined, that is true. BUT: Isn’t protecting society from criminals worth some money?

    4. Every day the criminal is alive, he enjoys things his victim cannot. ONLY the death penalty is appropriate. ONLY the death penalty can ensure he will not kill again. If you put him in prison for life, you are gambling with innocent lives that he will never escape, never be let out due to prison overcrowding, never con a parole board, never become a liberal cause celebre and get celebrities to pressure the governor for clemency, etc;

    5. As for an a wrong conviction, the risk of that is much lower than the risk the killer will kill again.

  49. 49
    igneous Slag growls and barks:

    Someone must be running low on matzoh.

  50. 50
    Staci growls and barks:

    Heard they may have found the baby alive… anyone who can find it to defend the evil assholes that did this is just plain fucked up. For anyone to read about this and immediately not be shocked and anger and wanting blood, it just deranged.

    Salvage you idiot, to say this?

    They might be legally insane and therefore not legally responsible for their actions

    ARE YOU INSANE???? I don’t give a shit if they are not LEGALLY responsible. Idiots like you want to defend asshole evil people on LEGAL grounds. It is evil, morally fucked up, and the fact that you could make such an assinine comment makes me question your sanity. You sound like one of the DUmmies over at DUh debating this crap. There is NO debate… this is down right evil and fucked up. One thing you are right about, electric chair is way to nice. I’m for putting the people that did this into a pool of rabid pirahnas. Geesh.

  51. 51
    Darth Apathy growls and barks:

    “Heard they may have found the baby alive…”

    I posted a link to the story several posts up.

  52. 52
    Staci growls and barks:

    Oops, Sorry Darth. I hadn’t refreshed my board to see that. Did check it out though since it was different from mine. Fox’s article goes further, they are interviewing a man and a woman. I am just so shocked at this. Not saying it could be any worse, but how horrible to happen especially during the holidays. I just recently had a friend murdered right before Thanksgiving. How anyone can go into not justifying capital punishment after seeing shit like this is just beyond my moral comprehension. Fucking sickos.

  53. 53
    Sofia the Imperial Librarian growls and barks:

    VRWC -

    Unfortunately, this crime isn’t as uncommon as we’d like to think. There are perhaps a dozen each year, falling into two broad categories:

    1. Violent criminals like the Briley brothers, who perform do-it-yourself-C sections as part of “ordinary” rape/murders, and

    2. Women whose need/desire for a baby has tipped them over the far side of over yonder.

    Are both groups of criminals evil? Yes, unless your definition of “evil” is distorted beyond all reason. Are both groups “animal?” No, animals don’t commit crimes like this. Are both groups seriously mentally ill? Undoubtedly, in the sense that their thoughts, emotions and mental processes resemble “normal” not in the slightest. Are they “insane?” NO. Insanity is a legal definition, to the effect that you are not insane unless/until you are so seriously batshit that you literally cannot tell right from wrong.

    Both these groups of criminals know right from wrong. Both are firmly in touch with reality – especially the latter group, and especially in this case, or the baby would not have been delivered or found alive. Both groups exhibit proof that they know what they’re doing is wrong – because they try to hide it.

    Good test for insanity: Would they do what they did if there was a uniformed cop standing right next to them?

    Bottom line: we call them sick or insane because we are unable to otherwise comprehend that they do it because they want to. Because they recognize nothing but themselves and their own wants, and no other living entity is anything to them except a means to fulfill those wants. Because committing this kind of violence fulfills some need of theirs and makes them feel good. Because we cannot imagine a mammal on two legs showing such absolute disregard for another person.

    Sometimes the more you understand, the less you forgive.

    And, while it is statistically true that life in prison is cheaper, in general, for the taxpayers than carrying out a capital sentence through the system we now have, capital punishment, however expensive, is a very specific and permanent deterrent. As a former homicide prosecutor, I led six capital trials. I successfully obtained the death penalty in five of them, which sentences have since been carried out. I can assure you with absolute, iron-clad certainty that none of those five individuals will ever again commit the slightest of crimes – at least not in this world.

    Sofia

  54. 54
    Staci growls and barks:

    Sofia… well said.

  55. 55
    Staci growls and barks:

    And a friend just emailed me over about the INSANITY over at DUh. Check this post out:

    Post from DU re: found baby

    Any chance the mom was white, blond and good looking?

    Sorry for being so cynical but….

    These people are fucked up bad. Waste of oxygen.

  56. 56
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    *Stands up and claps for Sofia. Huzzah!*

  57. 57
    Leo growls and barks:

    If whoever did this really is insane (or /was/ insane, depending on who catches up them first), they were calculating enough to kill the mother but get the baby out alive.

  58. 58
    Sofia growls and barks:

    B.C. – I am truly honored. (No, really. I haven’t blushed like this … since, well…)

    To put it more succinctly, one of my investigators once said of an allegedly “crazy” murder defendant, “For three hundred bucks an hour I’ll care about his problems. On my salary I don’t give a shit.”

  59. 59
    Leo growls and barks:

    Sofia, damn straight.

  60. 60
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    Sofia, that reminds me of the joke about the paternity suit:

    Judge: Defendant, how do you plead?

    Defendant: Your honor, I plead insanity.

    Judge: Insanity?! In a paternity suit?!

    Defendant: Yes, your honor. I was crazy ’bout that girl!

  61. 61
    LC Mary in LA, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    I wonder if this case is enough grounds to get me a concealed-carry permit in California, if I should be so fortunate as to become pregnant?

    Regarding the perps: Firing squad. Yes, it’s arguably too quick a death, but that way we can all help make it happen. Teamwork, people.

  62. 62
    Staci growls and barks:

    Sign me up Mary. I won’t use my shotgun though, think I’ll use my speargun to pin the asshole against the wall.

  63. 63
    LCDusty growls and barks:

    Salvage –you said Canada’s favorite pastime is drinking and bitching about the cold. Well . . .I guess in your case it probably is. Must be cold drinking out in the alley by the dumpster like that. Have another no-name beer mixed with rubbing alcohol and get off the library computer. Also I like the part about where you told me to blow you and accused me of sucking up to the regulars. First, a Canadian defending an American against an asshole Canadian isn’t sucking up it’s called free will ok? Second ummm … “blow me” … “sucking up?” wow! when you get stressed your mind tends to go in a certain direction doesn’t it? If you were female it might be understanable but I suspect you’re not.

  64. 64
    LCDusty growls and barks:

    Salvage — please, PLEASE respond to this post I’m going to enjoy sparring with you dickhead. Also, Salvage is an interesting name. I’m thinking I probably wasn’t too far off on the whole “drinking by the dumpster” thing with an name like Salvage were you perhaps “SALVAGING” pop cans & shopping carts?

  65. 65
    LC Defense Guy growls and barks:

    I heard on the news that the murderous duo may have been trying to sell the baby.

  66. 66
    salvage growls and barks:

    If Capital Punishment didn’t take decades to mete out, one would fear committing such horrible things.

    No, not really, most people who commit these types, and most crimes, either think they’re going to get away with it so punishment isn’t a factor, are insane / retards and therefore unlikely to recognize any potential punishment or do it in the heat of the moment before they can actually think of the consequences.

    Or a combination of all that.

    States with the death penalty don?t have any lower crimes rates than those that don’t. In fact murder rates are slightly higher in death penalty states. (I heard this last year, if I’m wrong please let me know).

    If someone murders someone in a death penalty state they have nothing to lose if they kill more people, you can?t execute someone twice so it makes criminals that much more dangerous.

    Put simply no criminal ever plans to get caught.

    When I?m talking legally insane it?s a very specific mindset that the nutter doesn?t know right from wrong. It?s a hard defense to launch because if there?s any indication that the defendant planned the crime or getaway / evasion in anyway it proves their sanity and that they knew right from wrong. Jeffery Dalmer for instance was obviously shithouse rat crazy but he still was found guilty and legally sane.

    Our legal system is designed to let 10,000 guilty go free as long as not one innocent is convicted. That?s why we have burdens of proof and such. Is it fair to the victims of the freed criminals? I dunno, that?s the question isn?t it? One way or another someone who doesn?t deserve it gets it in the neck, but I think its better that it?s not the Government doing the harm.

    Come up with a foolproof legal system and I?ll happily flip the switch on the scumbags but I?m not prepared to sacrifice innocent people to satisfy justice no matter how tempting.

  67. 67
    LC Tom growls and barks:

    I’m still amazed that they are referring to the infant as a fetus in the news. It reminds me of a recent incident I had with a local hospital, a mom has a premature child, which dies after about fortyfive minutes. They contact Child Protective Services, because they think that mom’s drug use caused the premature birth. They never contact local law enforcement about the neonatal death, nor arrange for transportation to the county medical examineer, as they considered the child a fetus and were treating the issue as a spontaneous abortion! And this is the medical professionals who didn’t get it that if the fetus is outside of the mother and alive, it isn’t a fetus!!!! What a headache that was.

    LC Tom

  68. 68
    LC Sir Lawrence growls and barks:

    The only reason not to let ‘em swing from a tree is that it would be greater punishment to cut off their genitals, stuff ‘em in their mouths, and hang them from their thumbs over an anthill (smeared in honey, of course) until they die of exposure. Vastly greater entertainment potential, too.

    Miserable subhuman bastards…

  69. 69
    LCDusty growls and barks:

    Salvage — All snide comments aside, your points are well enough made . . . BUT! (and this is a BIG “BUT”) how do you deal with the matter of REPEAT, INNCORRIGABLE, MURDERERS? You said you hadn’t heard of anyone escaping from death row. Fair enough, BUT most convicted murderes escape when they are on day passes, or work release or other such nonsense. What about the asshole who serves 15 years of a 25 year “life sentence” then kills somebody for their wallet an hour after they legally walk out of the prison gate. Don’t say it doesn’t happen. You say you don’t care about inmates killing inmates, again, fair enough, but what about imprisoned murderers who kill thier guards? Do we just say to the families of these guards “Oh well, he should have found other work.”? You need to address these questions fopr a strong arguement.

  70. 70
    Tsuki Hoseki growls and barks:

    Any chance the mom was white, blond and good looking?

    Tsuki has heard this kind of thing before, and it amuses her very much that the people who say it are usually pampered white upper-middle-class mall rats.

    Such remarks, coming from a white person’s mouth, are intended to show the audience that the speaker is an Enlightened Liberal, a “Freethinker” who is much too “smart” to believe anything the Media says because the Media are just puppets for the Government. This is the kind of person who suggests that the Police only enforce laws when the victims are white.

    People like this say these things to express their “solidarity” with the Oppressed Masses — all those non-white people who are forced to work in the cotton fields and salt mines for Da Man.

    Tsuki is sure this person has a “Question Authority” button, T-shirt or bumper sticker, and is very proud of it; and she is also sure that the highlight of their average day is drinking some insipid trendy coffee-like beverage while reading the latest body count from Iraq and silently gloating on behalf of the terrorists.

    If this person really believes what they are suggesting, they are an idiot. Tsuki does not see how anyone could be stupid enough to believe such a thing, but she knows better than to underestimate anyone’s capacity for stupidity.

    If they do not really believe it though, then they must be so full of hate for America that they feel compelled to tell whatever lies they can imagine to make America sound horrible. They must wake up every day looking for a new excuse to hate this country, and all the Red State Voters who ruined it for them.

    Tsuki would pity such people for living in a fantasy world so full of hate, but people make their fantasy worlds in their own images — so people like this are welcome to choke on their lies and hate, and Tsuki will quietly hate them back.

    Since she is half-Asian (and female), obviously this makes Tsuki a well-trained Tool of the Oppressors; but she must be too deluded to realize her complicity in her own enslavement, because she doesn’t care. She will think about it while digging in the salt mine, if she can ignore the painful crack of the whip long enough to think clearly.

  71. 71
    salvage growls and barks:

    REPEAT, INNCORRIGABLE, MURDERERS?

    Warehouse ‘em for life. There are some people through circumstance, bad luck or whatever that are just shit. It’s sad but true, some people are just plain bad and need to be kept in a small room where they can live without causing anyone any misery. We need to be able to spot these types as soon as they enter the system and then keep them in the system.

    Life means life for the worst (murder, rape, anything to do with hurting a kid etc.) no parole, nothing. 23 hours in a cell, a shower once a week enough food to keep them alive and that?s their life. The minimum effort to keep them alive, sane and safe.

    For violent crimes and habitual offenders (assault, anything with a gun, organized crime etc.) I think there should be sentences that give time and then stipulate that the condition of parole be an equal sentence of complete electronic surveillance. That is the parolee has to wear an ankle bracelet hooked to a GPS for as many years as he was sentenced. So 20 years in jail, 20 more years under digital supervision. You have the GPS tagged with all his parole conditions and it goes off if he enters a red zone (near a person or place he’s not allowed), instant warrant, cops are alerted parole is revoked with a quick confirmation and they serve the rest of the supervision sentence back in jail. But in the mean time they can work, with some of their pay being garnished to the victim or their families.

    Essentially we use our overwhelming information and surveillance technology to get 1984 on any violent criminals? ass and force them to make good on their bad.

  72. 72
    LC Wil growls and barks:

    Tsuki, well said. Thank you.

    Savage, go back to DUh, where your thoughts are appreciated.

    Understand this – Had this been my wife and child, the only thing the courts would decide would be the manner of execution of my wife’s killer and the molester of my daughter. The perps were caught with the baby. That aught to clich the case.

    If the courts kill him, so be it. I’ll be patient.

    If they acquit, he will never make it out of the court alive. If given life in prison, hey, for a C note and a carton of Newports, I can have anyone in the joint hit.

    If, for some strange reason, he is allowed out, I can keep him alive for three days, and screaming his lungs out the entire time. When he goes, he will be begging to die.

    Clear enough?

    “Proud Charter Member of the VRWC since 1964.”

  73. 73
    LC Wil growls and barks:

    Further, if I am on the Jury of one who does as I suggest to the killer of his wife, no power on earth would get me to convict. I believe it is a MAN’s duty to his family.

    “Proud Charter Member of the VRWC since 1964.”

  74. 74
    LC Brian B, WotAP growls and barks:

    Since she is half-Asian (and female), obviously this makes Tsuki a well-trained Tool of the Oppressors; but she must be too deluded to realize her complicity in her own enslavement, because she doesn’t care. She will think about it while digging in the salt mine, if she can ignore the painful crack of the whip long enough to think clearly.

    1. Tsuki displays her ability to deliver venemous satire disguised as self-deprecation with frightening aplomb.

    2. Tsuki really should not associate herself with whips while impressionable (and dirty) minds are in the audience.

  75. 75
    LC Brian B, WotAP growls and barks:

    LC Wil,

    Clear enough?

    The very essence of crystalline lucidity. And eerily similar to the opinion of this expecting father.

  76. 76
    LC BillofStMarys growls and barks:

    1. Read the “Tales of Known Space” by Larry Nivin. In his world, criminals are sent to “The Organ Banks” as punishment. Sort of a chop shop for perps. Break them up for parts and get the most value out of body.

    2. We now determine patients in hospitals to be dead at the cessation of brain waves to a level where intelligence or mental activity is gone. Why not define a baby as being alive when a sufficient lavel of brain waves begins and the fetus becomes an infant. It is the existence and presence of the mind and with it the soul that makes a human.I suspect that this is around the beginning of the third term. Set the time of 25 weeks as the critical threshold. Before then, a fetus, after then a baby.

  77. 77
    LC Wil growls and barks:

    High Praise, Brian. Thank you.

    I discovered your blog two day ago, and am just getting started working back thru the archives.

    Quite enjoyable.

    May the Creator, the Testor and our Savior and Protector bring blessings on you and your unborn child.

    “Proud Charter Member of the VRWC since 1964.”

  78. 78
    A. Nonymous growls and barks:

    Remember: A fetus is a baby who’s about to be murdered!

    Care to elaborate on this?—The Management?

  79. 79
    qc duck4moo growls and barks:

    the amber alert is haver some baby killer pro-aborters peples upset. ima find this beeyooty today at em moonbat blog:

    //But the Amber Alert gave a fetus “Amber Alert Status”, whatever that is, most likely another language coup by the right. I smell Rove or at least the ghost of rove over lackeys making the calls.//

    goddamer leftys! yer bitches not need the aborshun ifn you get a job and stop gettin high and spreadin for the hippies goddam you!

  80. 80
    bulldog growls and barks:

    shit! we are allready living in salvages fucked up world. its time for change

  81. 81
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    Mucky, you’re gettin’ better ‘n’ better at crackin’ me up, man.
    Keep up the good work. ;)

  82. 82
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    As usual, I’m late, and skimmed over the posts, because I saw something I had to respond to.

    Oh and Jesus, I wonder how He’d feel about the death penalty?

    In the words of Jesus “I come not to change the Law, but to fufill it.” (not exact quote…too pissed to pick up my Bible(s) right now)

    There is an entire chapter of Exodus devoted to crimes that warrant the death penalty. It’s the chapter right after the Ten Commandments.

    Jesus was pro-death penalty, simply because His father was. Jesus just wasn’t so keen on set-ups. Re-read the story of the prostitute, and tell me who’s missing from it.

  83. 83
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    As to the contention that the death penalty is soft on crime, I call Flagrant Bullshit, 15 yards, and loss of down.

    The death penalty is not a deterrent, never was, never will be. The key to understanding the death penalty is right there in front of your face. It’s a PENALTY! It is a punishment for a transgression that is so heinous, society has no other punishment suitable.

    Oh, and the death penalty sure cuts down on recidivism.

  84. 84
    LC Brian B, WotAP growls and barks:

    LC Wil,

    And thank you as well. I’ve been a bit remiss over there lately, the new job doesn’t afford me as much down time to Blog.

  85. 85
    LC Brian B, WotAP growls and barks:

    “Remember: A fetus is a baby who’s about to be murdered!

    Care to elaborate on this?—The Management?”

    I’m hoping that anonymous meant to point out that the use of “Fetus” is a disingenuous bit of rhetoric usually used to downplay the infant’s humanity.

  86. 86
    herodotus growls and barks:

    a truly dispicable story. Yet, I’m glad I found your site!

  87. 87
    Melissa in NorCal growls and barks:

    Hey, these people were just doing an unlicensed abortion right? No harm no foul!..(heavy sarcasm)

    We had this happen a few years back here in Nevada too, well, when I lived in Nevada anyways. It was a young girl and it was her aunt who did the “C-section”. I do believe they caught her and she was sentenced. I can’t remember if she got death or not. Peterson got death, if the state the crime occured in had the death penalty, they will get it. Pray for the husband and baby. They will need all the prayer power we can muster.

  88. 88
    kschlenker growls and barks:

    The sheriff was very upset because he couldn’t get the state officials to do an Amber alert at first–because they didn’t have the hair color or eye color of the baby. I am glad that someone finally showed some common sense and issued the alert.

    Now we can only hope that the state can get a conviction and the only appropriate penalty for a case like this one; the death penalty.

  89. 89
    LiberalLarry growls and barks:

    It’s only alive and an “infant” if the mother wanted it to be. There’s no way of knowing if she did. Hell, she could have been on her way to the abortion clinic for all we know. Therefore, it’s still a “fetus” and will remain so until a judge deems otherwise.

  90. 90
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Abolitionists hold the notion that criminals do not fear death because they do not take time to think about the concequences of their acts.
    If that were true, then I wonder how police officers manage to arrest criminals without killing them. When a policeman holds a criminal at gunpoint and tells him to get on the ground, the criminal will comply fully in the vast majority of of these cases. Why would they do that unless they were afraid of the lethal power of the gun? It is because regardless of what abolitionists claim, criminals are not immune to fear! It is a common misconception to believe that fear is a thought process that has to be worked out with a piece of paper. It’s not! It is an instinct that automatically kicks in when one is faced with lethal force! The examples below should confirm that point.

    During the temporary suspension on capital punishment from 1972-1976, researchers gathered murder statistics across the country. In 1960 there were 56 executions in the USA and 9,140 murders. By 1964, when there were only 15 executions, the number of murders had risen to 9,250.
    In 1969, there were no executions and 14,590 murders, and 1975, after six more years without executions, 20,510 murders occurred rising to
    23,040 in 1980 after only two executions since 1976. In summary, between 1965 and 1980, the number of annual murders in the United States
    skyrocketed from 9,960 to 23,040, a 131 percent increase. The murder rate — homicides per 100,000 persons — doubled from 5.1 to 10.2. So
    the number of murders grew as the number of executions shrank.
    Researcher Karl Spence of Texas A&M University said:

    “While some abolitionists try to face down the results of their disastrous experiment and still argue to the contrary, the…data concludes that a substantial deterrent effect has been observed…In six months, more Americans are murdered than have killed by execution in this entire century…Until we begin to fight crime in
    earnest [by using the death penalty], every person who dies at a criminal’s hands is a victim of our inaction.”

    Notes Dudley Sharp of the criminal-justice reform group Justice For All: “From 1995 to 2000,” “executions averaged 71 per year, a 21,000 percent increase over the 1966-1980 period. The murder rate dropped from a high of 10.2 (per 100,000) in 1980 to 5.7 in 1999 — a 44 percent reduction.
    The murder rate is now at its lowest level since 1966.

    It works for me.

  91. 91
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Joe Camel,

    Yeah, but the deterrent effect of the death penalty is an unintended side-effect…one of the rare cases where the side-effect is a positive effect.

  92. 92
    Troll King growls and barks:

    It’s only alive and an “infant” if the mother wanted it to be.

    Hee hee. Good satire trolling.

  93. 93

    I say give the murderers a sporting chance. Turn them loose in an open field and give me a 7mm Magnum and one round for each person involved. I’ll give them a 2 minute head start. I promise you the end result would be what they deserved.

    LC SlagleRock Out!

  94. 94
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    Hee hee. Good satire trolling.

    From the King of Trollsr, that’s a helluva compliment. LibLarry, take a bow!

  95. 95
    LC Wil growls and barks:

    SlagleRock – WAY to easy on them.

    An even dozen of the victims family. Armed with .22 short single shots. Maximum of 25 rounds each. No way to escape the 640 acre (1 Square Mile), wooded, electrified barbed wire enclosure. No time limit.

    Place yer bets. Over / Under is 1 hour, 27 minutes.

    “Proud Charter Member of the VRWC since 1964.”

  96. 96
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    HDD

    Salvage asked “Oh and Jesus, I wonder how He’d feel about the death penalty?”

    There are those who claim that capital punishment is not compatible with New Testament scripture because one cannot love your neighbor by killing them.
    The movie Dead Man Walking demonstrates a very good example of how just punishment and Jesus’ message of love and redemption can work together:

    Had rapist/murderer Matthew Poncelet not been properly sentenced to death by the civil authority, he would not have met Sister Prejean, he would not have taken responsibility for his crimes and he would not have reconciled with God. Had Poncelet never been caught or had he only been given a prison sentence, his character makes it very clear that those elements would not have come together. Indeed, for the entire film and up until those last moments, prior to his execution, Poncelet was not fully truthful with Sister Prejean. His lying and manipulative nature was fully exposed at that crucial time. It was not at all surprising, then, that it was just prior to his execution that all of the spiritual elements have come together for his salvation, something no prison sentence is able to do. It was now, or never. Truly, it was his pending execution which finally led to his repentance. For Christians, the most crucial concerns of Dead Man Walking must be and are redemption and eternal salvation. And, for that reason, it may well be, for Christians, the most important pro-death penalty movie ever made.

    Capital punishment provides the murderer with incentive to repentance which the ordinary man does not have, that is a definite date on which he is to meet his God. It is as if God thus providentially granted him a special inducement to repentance out of consideration of the enormity of his crime…the law grants to the condemned an opportunity which he did not grant to his victim, the opportunity to prepare to meet his God. Even divine justice here may be said to be tempered with mercy.

    Indeed, the death penalty fits in very well with Christian beliefs, especially if one considers Christ’s crucifixion. For man’s sins were so great, that only an execution could atone for them. Just as Christ died to atone for Man’s sins, so must the murderer die to atone for his, following Christ’s example. Without atonement for one’s sins, forgiveness and redemption look cheap and frivolous. Christ demonstrated just that when he died on the cross for us. It can be confirmed that biblical text finds that it is a violation of God’s mandate not to execute murderers-and nowhere does the text contradict this finding.

    These statements do not reflect any religious beliefs on my part. I’m not a particularly religious man. The above I found and posted to counter the false claim that there is no Biblical support for capital punishment.

    I just happen to agree, somewhat, and wondered as to whether you find this compatible with your beliefs.

  97. 97
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Joe Camel,

    I’m somewhat saddened to hear that you are not a man of faith. (I view calling someone religious only slightly more complimentary than calling them an uneducated dog) But that wasn’t the question.

    It’s a neat justification, but, not neccessarily the correct justification. While I am not the one to judge how sincere someone’s “deathbed” conversion is, I find it suspect that so many people who claimed to have no fear of God suddenly find that fear when they KNOW they are going to die. If they are sincere, GREAT! Halelujah! If they aren’t sincere, then they have benefited themselves not at all.

    Also, Jesus was not executed for our sins, He was sacrificed for our sins. Somantic difference, I know, but an important one. Jesus was executed for daring to challenge the organised religion of the area, but, He was sacrificed to cleanse our sins.

    The article is a persuasive arguement, but not exactly the correct arguement.

  98. 98
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    hm. There is the possibility that I wanted to use the word “semantic”, rather than “somantic”…I can never remember the difference between the two.

  99. 99
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    ….anyway, my last thoughts on the death penalty:

    I can assure every abolitionist who uses the “one innocent” argument that there is not one retentionist who is not aware of the risks involved with the death penalty or the fact that he is putting his own life at risk. But they support it anyway. Why? Because we cannot in good moral and social conscience trivialize and subordinate the thousands of innocents that are brutally slaughtered every year due to violent crime to the slimmest risk in the world! To do so would be short-sighted and insensitive in the extreme!

    The whole reason why nations and governments exist is to defend their decent citizens from scumbag criminals from outside AND scumbag criminals from within.
    When it fails to do that, they become of little use to its citizens.
    When a society ignores their moral duty to defend the safety and security of their decent citizens and leaves them at the mercy of violent criminals, they are not being “civilized,” they are being downright fucking negligent.

    Fry Mumia.

  100. 100
    LC Gunsniper growls and barks:

    Bravo.

  101. 101
    LC TripleNeckSteel growls and barks:

    Ave Imperator!

    I don’t know how else to avail your lordship of this event, but I do have a rather limited attention span– so it’s quite likely your address is within my purview.

    At any rate, I’ve blogged it, and here’s the link– it also contains a link to the article itself.

    So can someone explain to me how we’re over there stealing from the poor Iraqis again?

    Salve Imperator!

    TNS

  102. 102
    LC TripleNeckSteel growls and barks:

    BTW, LC Joseph D,

    I’m kind of an “expert” on Mumia and the Mumidiots/Mumanics/Mumorons.

    Mumia did his murder a couple of blocks away from my house, and when I was a kid, that heighborhood was our stomping grounds. I remember the morning after it happened clear as day– going to the scene and seeing the whole forensic thing happening.

    I’m against the Death Penalty for a few reasons, including the friend of mine who did 8 years in Graterford Prison for absolutely nothing.
    It’s perilous enough when someone goes to jail for the wrong reason– I think I would be a little uneasy about killing the wrong guy– but make no mistake, Mumia is a mur-diddly-urderer? [/Flanders], and under the laws at the time, he is liable as a mofo for the D/P.

    I’m not surprised he’s become a Moonbat Saint, and whenever I see the ‘bats doing their mating-dance (that’s a march or protest to the rest of us), I always call out “Free Mumia!” to them, in order to encourage them to dilute the message of whatever their march happens to be about.
    Whenever I hear someone shout “Free Mumia!”, I always respond, “Really? Free? Where are they giving it out? I want some free mumia!”

    They invariably seek out the protection of one of the giant puppet heads that watch over them.

    LC TNS

  103. 103
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    I suppose I should say that I am pro-death penalty, with a few caveats.

    I am pro-death penalty for cases where the conviction was obtained WITH THE BEST EVIDENCE AVAILABLE AT THE TIME. I also don’t like the idea of putting an innocent man to death, but, if guilt is established beyond a reasonable doubt, then, I’m all for the death penalty. And I don’t really object to all the appeals a death-row inmate gets. If there is new evidence, or evidence was suppressed, then, by all means, the soon-to-be-Sparkyfied has every right to establish their innocence. Procedural appeals kinda bore me, though.

    I don’t remember which FF it was, but one of them said something to the effect of “I would rather set 1000 guilty men free than convict one innocent man”. Our judicial system isn’t perfect, not by a long shot, but, it’s the best one available.

  104. 104
    LC TripleNeckSteel growls and barks:

    HDD,

    My feelings on it have changed a lot. I went to a *shudder* Quaker Scool for a decade as a kid, and I admittedly came out of there with a headful of liberation-theology bull-shite, while still being very conservative about other things.

    Now, of course, I’ve grown up into a full-fledged conservative. An atheist, but a conservative through and through. Until the 90s, I was staunchly pro- D/P. Then my buddy pent 8 years in the foulest of Pennsylvania prisons for something he didn’t do. I can’t imagine what would have happend had it been for a capital offense. The D/P sure doesn’t concern, much less deter the Inmates-in-Training? kids in Philly.

    OTOH, I agree that sometimes, death is the only penalty that can match the enormity of a crime– especially when the perp is caught in the act, like a hijacking, or mass murder where the cops roll up during the commission of the crime.

    Not being a religious guy, and sincerely not to taunt anyone who is, but which would be more important in God/Jesus’ eyes– vengeance or mercy? Aren’t we supposed to be merciful, and isn’t vengeance God’s alone, or does my cursory knowledge of the Bible (yes, I managed to ignore it through a decade of religious school)betray me?

    LC TNS

  105. 105
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    TNS,

    Sorry, but you must have missed my previous posts on the death penalty. Biblically speaking, the death penalty is justified for certain crimes. Jesus never said one word about abolishing the death penalty. NOT.ONE.WORD. In fact, He said He came, not to change the Law, but to fufill the Law. And the Law contains MANY crimes that warrant the death penalty, murder being one of them.

    I am always torn when a death penalty case comes up, because I always have to ask myself “what if they are innocent?”. In Scott Peterson’s case, I’m pretty sure he’s guilty, but, I’m not absolutely certain. In the case that started this whole thread, we are certain. So, off with her head.

    I would have to say that I am unabashedly pro-death penalty in cases where we know, FOR A FACT, that the crime was committed by the defendant. Mental illness is NOT a defense that negates the death penalty. In fact, I could easily argue that mentally ill people who commit capital crimes should be given the death penalty, just to prevent them from doing it again.

    I’m sorry about your friend, but, remember, not that many people are convicted of crimes they didn’t commit. Your friend just happened to be in the wrong category…one of those “not very many people”. By and large, our court system acquits more guilty people than it convicts innocent people, which is what it was designed to do. Unfortunately, mistakes are made. But, doctors make far more mistakes, many times resulting in tragic deaths, but we aren’t arguing for the abolition of health care now, are we?

  106. 106
    fiery celt growls and barks:

    rmc

    A registered nurse and 2 accomplices killed the woman and her 10 year old daughter, and performed a C-section and stole the baby.

    Jacqueline Williams, the woman who cut the baby out of Debra Evans, so she could present her boyfriend, Fedell Caffey, with a “light skinned” baby-

    Jaqueline Evans was NOT a Registered Nurse!
    She was a so called “Nurse’s Aide”—

    I am a Registered Nurse, and worked at a Hospital ER in the area where this occured.
    I was privy to certain facts, through Police and medics I knew, involed in the Debra Evans Case and the torture and murder of her 8 year old son.

    It was a heinous, gruesome series of crimes, and that b*tch was NO Nurse!

    Jacqueline Williams and her boyfriend deserved a long, slow torturous death—
    Preferably, by disembowelment…

    But instead, they get blanket amnesty from then Gov. Ryan—
    He did it with the intent of gaining some future sympathies, when he faced his own impeding indictments on corruption and racketeering.
    Ryan should be tried for murder of the of the six children whose fiery deaths he and his cronies caused-

    http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/121703_ns_govryancharged.html

    Gov. Ryan got indicted,…Maybe he will rot in prison with Caffey and Williams.

  107. 107
    AMJoe growls and barks:

    We could do it the old fashioned Chicago gangster way…ice picks. You can keep ‘em alive and in alotta pain for days with ice picks.

    Ooh, pliers too. Can’t go wrong with ice picks and pliers. I remember a bunch of bodies turning up in town here that had been “worked over” rather harshly, a la Capone style. It always made New York nervous when dealing with The Outfit boys from Chicago.

  108. 108
    LC TripleNeckSteel growls and barks:

    HDD,

    I know the Bible doesn’t preclude the D/P– what I meant to ask was how, according to the Biblical logic, we as men are supposed to decide when it’s time for mercy, and when it’s time for some Fryin’.

    I personally can’t say about Scott Peterson, but I can, and will say, that anyone with half a brain, and even a cursory knowledge of the evidence, has to believe Mumia is guilty. Not only has he gotten his fair trial, he’s also gotten two PCRH (post-conviction relief hearing) hearings, which is one more than provided for by law for any other mur-diddly-urderer?. In other words, he’s had more than a fair shake.

    He has his justice, and you and I surely don’t need anyone to explain to us how according to Moonbat logic, he’s innocent and should be “free”.
    Mumia has made a sham of his trial using proven tactics of the ADA, ACLU, and others bent on subverting democracy. Had he participated, he may even have succeeded in planting reasonable doubt in at least one juror’s mind.

    However, as it now stands, I’ll be handing out the long, pointy sticks and marshmallows when they fry that filthy POS.

    Fellow LCs, and trolls too– If you, or any Moonbat you know thinks Mumia is “innocent”, check out http://www.DanielFaulkner.com for the case transcripts, and salient analysis by Philadelphia radio host and lawyer, Michael Smerconish (the other conservative guy in Philly!)

  109. 109
    LC TripleNeckSteel growls and barks:

    Damn!

    I forgot to add this; on the Officer Danny Faulkner website, there’s a great resource– A link to a page on another site is a veritable who’s who of celebridiots, who have contributed or at least identified with the Mumidiots.

    LC TNS

  110. 110
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    TNS,

    Per the Bible, forgiveness of a crime does not negate the need for a punishment for the crime. So, a murderer may repent of his sin, and be forgiven, but, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be punished for it. And the penalty for murder in the Law of Moses is death.

    God was quite clear where and when to be merciful. Punishment for crimes is NOT one of those places. If one is merciful for one criminal, one must be merciful to ALL criminals. So, even though the criminal is forgiven (if they repent), that does not negate the punishment. God has one set of punishments for the flesh, and another set for the soul. Sometimes, people confuse the two.

  111. 111
    LC TripleNeckSteel growls and barks:

    I see.

    That makes enough sense to me.

    Fry Mumia!!!

    LC TNS

  112. 112
    Deathknyte growls and barks:

    1. Read the “Tales of Known Space” by Larry Nivin. In his world, criminals are sent to “The Organ Banks” as punishment. Sort of a chop shop for perps. Break them up for parts and get the most value out of body.

    I have read that one, the death penalty for jaywalking, just to get cheap replacement parts.

    Tsuki, you apperently misread the memo… your supposed to be on the other end of the whip, and NO DIGGING!! Let the little brown people do that.

  113. 113
    LC Sterm growls and barks:

    I love when anti-DP folks say that the killers should “suffer” life imprisonment where they get to “think about their crimes”. The bastards are thinking about their crimes, alright, and most likely masturbating to the memories. See Speck, Richard.

  114. 114
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    Per the Bible, forgiveness of a crime does not negate the need for a punishment for the crime. So, a murderer may repent of his sin, and be forgiven, but, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be punished for it. And the penalty for murder in the Law of Moses is death.

    That’s two things that keep me moral and Christian, but away from my current ‘sect’ , if you will..

    I believe in punishment for crimes. Murder in the most heinous of these. But as a Christian I musk ask that “Whom besides God himself can create life? Then, therefore only God can take a life” (poorly paraphrased from something)
    That’s number one.

    Number Two: NEVER will I allow the State to define who lives and who dies…
    ( yes, I know…talk to me after my sister/girlfriend/mother, is raped and killed..I might have a different idea..)

    Sorry, wiimpy ol’ me in my circumstaces that is ( are/be?) could not be on a jury that would elect to kill a man. That’s me…give him life….tha’d be what, 12 months before the general population weeded out the gene pool?!
    ( Who ever said prison was a bad thing?! :) ) )

  115. 115
    Leo growls and barks:

    “Any logical society would either kill me or put me to some use.” – Hannibal Lector

    My 2 cents. :P

  116. 116
    Deathknyte growls and barks:

    I believe in punishment for crimes. Murder in the most heinous of these. But as a Christian I musk ask that “Whom besides God himself can create life? Then, therefore only God can take a life” (poorly paraphrased from something)
    That’s number one.

    I see it as, if we kill him, God can bring him back to show us that we were wrong. That or he gets to go to heaven early. (the second bit there has to do with my own ideas on God, ignore it if you want, ’cause I won’t care)

  117. 117

    What would Jesus do? He told us what He would do — and more importantly, what He would have us do.

    It’s not difficult to find old testament support for the death penalty. God provided for it as early in the OT as Genesis. In the time of Noah and the great flood, God spoke and said, “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed.” – Genesis 9:6 (emphasis mine)

    When God was giving His law to Moses and His people, He also said these things which directly relate to the case at hand:

    “Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death” – Exodus 21:12

    “But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.” – Exodus 21:12

    “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.” – Exodus 21:16

    “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious innury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.” – Exodus 21:22-24

    “Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. He must surely be put to death.” – Numbers 35:31

    God also tells us what happens when there is no swift penalty: “When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, the hearts of the people are filled with schemes to do wrong.” – Ecclesiastes 8:11

    The sixth commandment is thou shall not kill, right? Wrong! The sixth commandment reads, “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). There is a difference between kill and murder. One can accidentally kill someone, that is unintentional. Murder is not unintentional. It may not have been planned, but it was a deliberate act nevertheless. Man’s law provides for these varying degrees of guilt and culpability with homicide vs. manslaughter vs. self-defense, and all the degrees thereof.

    And before you say “but that was the Old Testament, Kate and all that changed when Jesus came!” be aware that the New Testament does not wipe out the Old, it complements it. Jesus Himself told us that He came to fulfill the Law.

    Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” – Matthew 5:17-20

    Do we not have to judge to give someone the death penalty? Didn’t Jesus say in Matthew 7:1, “Judge not, that you be not judged.” Yes, He did. But context is everything. So we must look at the whole of what Jesus was saying in Matthew 7: “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, “let me take the speck out of your eye” when all the time there is a plank in your own yee? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” – Matthew 7:1-5

    Jesus was speaking to the hypocrite. If I steal, and I see someone else stealing, I cannot judge them. (Ever wonder why convicted felons lose their right to sit on a jury?) Jesus is admonishing us to stop doing it ourselves before we dare to judge someone else doing it. Jesus is calling us to judge fairly. Nowhere does He state (or imply) that He wanted us to close our eyes to crime, or refrain from judgement. He wasn’t commanding blind acceptance or tolerance, he was demanding grace toward others. Since all of us are sinners, we need to start attending to our own issues before we have any right to judge. Don’t blame or put down others while excusing or exalting yourself is what Jesus was saying.

    Scripture gives clear guidelines to believers in cases where judgements need to be rendered. See Matt. 18:15-17; 1 Cor. 6:1-8; and Gal. 6:1-5 for instance. In the book of Luke, we learn that as Jesus hung on the cross, one of the criminals mocked Him. “But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.’” – Luke 23:40-41 In that passage the criminal states that they are being justly punished by being put to death for their crimes.

    When you look at the apostle Paul in the book of Acts, he says, “If, however, I am guilty of doing anything deserving death, I do not refuse to die. But if the charges brought against me by these Jews are not true, no one has the right to hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar! – Acts 25:11 In that same chapter, the manner of a trial, including the right to hear the charges, face one’s accusers and have an opportunity to defend oneself against the charges is described, as is the right of appeal.

    God established the governing authorities (Romans 13:1) and anyone who rebels against it is rebelling against what God has instituted, thereby bringing judgment on themselves (Romans 13:2). “For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.” – Romans 13:3-5

    So what would Jesus do? If you have any doubts, just pick up your bible.

  118. 118
    dee growls and barks:

    How terrible. And how depressing.

    Is there ANY evil that human beings will not do?

    (That was a rhetorical question).

    I just read a book about Germany under Hitler, from the POV that the things the Nazis did would not have been possible without the assistance of ‘ordinary’ German citizens.

    God, yes, kill these vermin asap.

  119. 119
    Tom growls and barks:

    Salvage:

    “…I used to be on the fence about it until I read Dead Man Walking…”

    Only a weak-minded sort would be influenced by Helen Prejean’s pile of shit in book form.

    “The problem is that what happens when the wrong person is convicted and killed?”

    Name one time, with proof, that an innocent person has been convicted and executed in the USA. Now, I’m talking about a state-sanctioned execution, not a lynching and not a murder in prison by another inmate.

    If you can answer this, please do so with proof, as the ACLU and any number of other liberal assholes can piss and moan about execution of the innocent, but they never have proof.

  120. 120
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    Speaking of murdering scumbags, you won’t believe this story.

    Judge dismisses Case Against DCF for 2-Year-Old’s Murder

    here’s the money quote: “The judge found the DCF workers had no constitutional duty to protect the child.”

    They’re the Department of Children and Families! What the f**k are they getting paid for, to sit on their fat asses and watch TV?!?!?!?

    The grandmother of the murdered child called repeatedly to the DCF to tell them that the child was being beaten and abused by his mother’s “boyfriend”.

    God forbid they should investigate it, They might miss “Oprah”.

    Meanwhile, the scumbag boyfriend cuts a deal with the State Attorney’s office and only gets 25 years.

    For beating a 2-year-old to death!

    Un-F**king-Believable.

  121. 121
    robert in england growls and barks:

    Well, my vote is for tree shredders, and with dull blades at that. These are not people, not human, not sentient, they are things, and should be discarded as such. Oh, and Jesus also said ‘before he does harm to any of these little ones, it were better for him that he tied a millstone around his neck, and cast himself into the sea’. Works for me.

  122. 122
    N. O'Brain, IMfUI growls and barks:

    As to the meme that the death penalty isn’t a deterent:

    Go and doublecross your local Mafia.

    Steal from them, cheat them, kill one fo them.

    I dare you.

    I double dog dare you.

    Death isn’t a deterent, huh?

    N. O’Brain
    Imperial Minister for Useless Information

  123. 123
    kschlenker growls and barks:

    I’m glad they caught the bitch. That is exactly how I think of her; she may have had a miscarriage–big deal. I had eight pregnancies, but only managed three kids out of that. I didn’t go kill someone else and steal their baby when I miscarried. Lots of women I know have had miscarriages. She had two kids, that’s more than the other mother ever got to hold in her arms.

    I can hear the bitching and moaning now–she had post-miscarriage depression or some such BS. No damn way. This one person ruined the lives of her husband, her two kids, the life of the baby and her father and took the life of the mother of the baby. Not to mention all the grandparents. She destroyed two families. I feel sorry for those families–not the witch that brought all this sorrow to pass.

  124. 124
    Patrick Chester growls and barks:

    Why they shouldn’t? I have one good reason:

    Because staking them to the ground over a fire ant nest is more appropriate.

  125. 125
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    kschlenker –
    I agree..My mother had 4 miscarriages before my oldest sister was born… She didn’t kill anyone to get a child…
    I say fuck this bitch, cut her into teeny tiny little pieces while she’s still alive and taunt her with ( a la ‘no ice cream’) ‘You ain’t got no baby’ !!

    (If) They get some kind of insanity or post traumatic stress bullshit out of this and our culture is totally hosed….Nothing but murder, 1′st degree…

  126. 126
    CDR Will growls and barks:

    ['Scuse us for saying so, bud - but we believe the Emperor banned you.  You do know what "banned" means, right?

    Buh-bye.  -The Management™]

  127. 127
    Lord Spatula I, King & Tyrant growls and barks:

    And before you say “but that was the Old Testament, Kate and all that changed when Jesus came!” be aware that the New Testament does not wipe out the Old, it complements it. Jesus Himself told us that He came to fulfill the Law.

    Kate, we also have Jesus’ words that He is God.  In John 8:58, he said, “Before Abraham was, I AM” – using the name he used when addressing Moses in Exodus 3:14.

    GarbageAss, of course, chooses not to believe that Jesus is God, so he’s very likely to use the “but that was the Old Testament” argument with you, despite your admonition – stupid little bint that he is.

  128. 128
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    When I heard about this story yesterday, I first thought it was a sinister form of “baby harvesting” by some evil shiteating scumbag who was going to attempt to sell the infant “south of the border” I’ve heard of similar events happening in South America.

    I never thought it would be a psychotic bitch wanting to play “mommy”. While I’d like nothing better then to see her convicted and executed, I have a bad feeling that she’s going to get off on an insanity plea wherepon she’ll spend the rest of her days being “studied” in some asylum.

    At least she isn’t going to be put on trial in California……

  129. 129
    Robert McClelland growls and barks:

    SKIDMORE, Mo. — An infant believed to be the fetus cut from its murdered mother’s womb was found alive in the state of Kansas Friday, according to police.

    This same end result happens hundreds of times a day because you wingnuts won’t allow a woman her RIGHT TO CHOOSE!

    You’d be less self-righteously outraged if she killed the fetus too (Peterson).

    Mouth-breathers!

  130. 130
    LC ms heather, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    Bravo, Kate. Excellent post.

  131. 131
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    Poor Robert.

    I see that syphilis has really done a number on his brain.

  132. 132
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    I did like the way he ened his little dollop onf nonsensical drivel with the vicious, cutting insult of “Mouth-breathers”

    Mouth-breathers?

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

    A pearl of sharp wit worthy of a six-year-old.

    You may as well have called us “doody-heads” or “redneck-meanies”.

    *guffaw*

  133. 133
    LC ima mommy growls and barks:

    Last time I checked, abortion was legal in the US Bob…even up until the day of delivery if I’m not mistaken. So of course it’s not that we don’t ALLOW it…it’s that we DISAGREE with it!

  134. 134
    actus growls and barks:

    Ah. Missouri. The heartland.

  135. 135
    spydrz growls and barks:

    I agree. The “mouth-breathers” statement is something a kindergartner would say.

  136. 136
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Thank you, Heather, for actually doing the research and finding the Bible passages I knew were there, but was too lazy to look up. You made my points much better than I was.

    2112,

    Gotta disagree with you slightly on this one.

    First, God did tell us when it was okay to kill another human being. In fact, He told us that there are MANY times when it is okay. Frinstance, in war, or in the case of murder. God’s Laws make more sense when they are read literally, rather than interpreted. That’s the beauty of the Bible: it is rather straightforward. Only when people start looking for ways to justify their own (bad) behaviour through Scripture does it seem confusing.

    As to allowing the State to decide who lives or dies, we already do. “Murder” is defined as an “unlawful killing”, meaning that the State has decided that killing someone under certain circumstances is against the laws that the State issued. So, even without the death penalty, the State has already determined who is a murder victim, and who isn’t.

    Besides, one of the great things about OUR State (the US), is that the Christians have a say in how the State decides who lives and dies, but only if we’ll take the time to do so. Through our elected officials, we can get nearly whatever laws we deem neccessary, but only if we actually take the time to vote, and communicate with those elected officials.

    I have come to the realisation that, if we don’t like how the US is run, we really don’t have anyone to blame but ourselves. Since the majority of the US considers itself conservative, and Christian, how did we end up with a liberal, Secular Humanist government?! Apathy and inaction, that’s how. And not actually living out our faith(s).

  137. 137
    Red Five growls and barks:

    3 words: Burn. Them. Alive.

  138. 138
    Angelo growls and barks:

    C’mon guys, the lady was just using her freedom of “choice”

  139. 139
    ms heather growls and barks:

    HDD,

    That was Kate who did that. ;)

  140. 140
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    ms heather

    HDD has so many lady friends he gets them mixed up at times. It’s a Marine thing. The Jarheads
    with their dress blues always did get the most girls! :(

  141. 141
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Oops, you are right. Me not very bright. Me get confusilated easily.

    You are still my favorite person named “Heather”, though.

  142. 142
    LC TripleNeckSteel growls and barks:

    N O’B,

    You said:

    As to the meme that the death penalty isn’t a deterent:

    Go and doublecross your local Mafia.

    Steal from them, cheat them, kill one fo them.

    I dare you.

    I double dog dare you.

    Death isn’t a deterent, huh?

    And you’re right–partly. Death is a deterrent to people who are basically law-abiding, decent humans.

    On the other hand, it didn’t deter two little shitwads here who just copped guilty to murdering a guy in front of his kid for one of those mini-motorbikes. He said, “I told him three times to get off it, and he didn’t so I shot him.”

    Inner City Residents?, obviously.

    That’s not a meme, boss. That’s a fact. All death means to these Inmates in Training? is that their homies have to get an airbrushed tee-shirt with their name on it, or put some candles and stuffed animals on whatever corner they finally get shot on.

    Not. A. Deterrent.

    LC TNS

  143. 143
    LC Azygos growls and barks:

    Fetus- Latin term. In humans an unborn baby in utero from the end of the third month until birth. Always amazes me that people casually use the term fetus and don?t bother to take the time to learn the correct definition. Hmm, aren?t the words unborn baby included in that definition?

    As for you anti-death penalty but pro-killing unborn babies folks you?ll can be sure that with this perp we won?t be carrying out the death penalty. It will just be an abortion in the 142nd trimester.

    As for justice for folks who do bad things. I worked in the ER where the bookkeeper for Al Capone was brought when he coded in prison. The doc pronounced him dead at the ripe old age of 94. I don?t like that it takes an average of five million dollars of my money and years and years to bring scumbags to justice. Tort reform now, and fire up sparky.

  144. 144
    LC Mamamontezz, GLOR growls and barks:

    1. Hanging isn’t too good, not too fast, not too cruel for the heartless amoral bastards who did this. A hanging can last as long as you want it too. You don’t just drop their sorry asses from a platform, you slowly raise and lower them with a pulley so that their necks don’t break, as many times as it takes to get your point across before finally hoisting them slowly a few inches from the ground to finish them off while they kick and struggle. Yes, I’ve given this some thought. And carry it on network television after midnight so we can all see it and toast the executioners.

    2. No protective custody for these sick shits. General Population all the way to trial, and we may not need a trial.

    3. Get them the best laywers our tax dollars can get and let a real prosecutor for the state. Not one of those stupid elected prosecutors, but a hardened, trench weary one who is sick to death of this shit and would cut off his own arm to get a conviction. The worse thing that could happen at this point is for some Jr DA to get this and fuck it up.

    4. Pray for the family of this poor woman and for her. I cannot imagine the terror she must have felt as that bitch strangled the life from her. She must have believed that not only she was being killed, but also the little child she had carried and felt within her for all these months, and the fear must have been overwhelming.

    Bloodthirsty Bitch? Perhaps I am. I do, however, draw the distinction of being so only for the punishment of those who so richly deserve it, and not for the innocent.

  145. 145
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    HDD-

    Gotta disagree with you slightly on this one

    I concede. But my point was not that I wouldn’t want to kill the SOB that did something like this to someone I know, just that I’d find it very difficult to put a man’s life or death in my hands ( on a jury). I’m not qualified to make that call….there’s always that one in a zillion chance of his/her innocence, and I wouldn’t wanna guess wrong..
    (wimping out on making a choice, I know, but it’s a big thing to be wrong about….)

  146. 146
    LC Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    My 2:

    First of all, I wanna say to DevilDog and Kate that I think you guys are right on. When I was younger, I used to think that Christ came and eradicated all the old punishments because “we’re not under the Law, we’re under grace”. I no longer believe that to be the case for the very reasons you both state. I’ve never done a serious study on whether or not He would approve of the death penalty, but I’m pretty sure y’all hit the nail on the head.

    And for a tiny bit of dissenting opinion:

    I am enraged and sickened by this crime, and I wanna personally see this [deleted] given the Death of a Thousand Cuts. You know, take machete, hack off tip of finger. Burn and cauterize wound so they won’t bleed to death. Rub salt in wound, ha ha. Take machete, hack another half inch off finger, etc.

    …however…

    I think most of the interesting ideas for execution seen in this thread would be a major violation of the Eight Amendment. (…nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.) Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think there’s a form of execution painful enough for this crime. But that isn’t my call. That clause was put in the Bill of Rights because the Crown had this nasty habit of putting people on the rack, or drawing and quartering them, for things a lot less disgusting than this. Should the Framers have taken that into account? Maybe. Maybe we can get an amendment ratified real quick that allows us to let the punishment fit the crime. But that’s my understanding of the law. Of course, moonbat judges have perverted “cruel and unusual punishment” to mean felons can’t have free cable TV, just like they’ve perverted the First and Second Amendments to the point where they hardly mean anything any more.

    Whatever. Just some rambling thoughts. Anyway, I don’t really care how, just kill her. Quickly, please.

  147. 147
    Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    er, EighTH Amendment. Hooray for grammar.

  148. 148
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    NCO Guy,

    To make your research about Jesus and the death penalty a little easier, Jesus was only faced with a situation that had ANY connection to the death penalty twice. And both times, the subject never actually came up.

    The first time was the story of the prostitute, made famous by the passage “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Careful reading, or even a reading with understanding of the situation, finds that Jesus did not say anything about the Death Penalty. The whole situation was a set-up. The proof? How many people does it take to commit an act of adultery? How many people were “on trial”? The Law of Moses stipulated the death penalty for ANYONE caught in an act of adultery. Read the story again, and tell me who is missing.

    The second time was on the Cross, where Jesus forgave Barnabas, yet said nothing about negating Barnabas’ punishment. Forgiveness doesn’t negate punishment. It can actually make the punishment worse, if the forgiven actually has a soul…

  149. 149
    LC Mamamontezz, GLOR growls and barks:

    Seems this sick shit showed the baby off at a diner and even to her pastor before they caught her. And she “lied” to her husband about what happened?

    Please. She walked in to a dog breeder’s home and walked out with a baby in a bloody wrap. Give me a break. And didn’t insist on getting her to the nearest hospital to be checked in the ER? Never questioned the circumstances? Didn’t notice that she was not having any of the effects of childbirth?

    Even if he did believe her, which I don’t believe, any responsible husband would have done that. But no, he drives her how many miles, stops for dinner along the way, and goes to the pastor’s home.

    But no, he hasn’t been charged. Go figure.

  150. 150
    LC Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    Read the story again, and tell me who is missing.

    You had asked that question earlier and I didn’t understand what you were talking about. Makes sense now. Good point.

    Paraphrasing- “We caught her in the very act!

    I guess “the act” does require a man, don’t it?

  151. 151
    LC ms heather, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    The second time was on the Cross, where Jesus forgave Barnabas, yet said nothing about negating Barnabas’ punishment.

    Yes! That is exactly the Bible passage I cite when I’m debating someone about God and the Death Penalty.

  152. 152
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Yes! That is exactly the Bible passage I cite when I’m debating someone about God and the Death Penalty.

    I’m more partial to Exodus 20 and 21. Exodus 20 gives us the Ten Commandments, which includes “Thou shalt not kill” in some Bibles, yet Exodus 21 is a list of crimes that will result in the death penalty if convicted of. But, hey, that’s just me.

    My NKJV Bible actually gets the Commandment right…it says “Thou shall not commit murder”…which is an killing that is against the law. Laws made by men, for men. The Bible is quite pro-death penalty. But only for people who actually deserve it.

  153. 153
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    Ah. Missouri. The Heartland.

    Ah. actus. The leftist asshat.

    To follow his implied logic, blue states such as California and New York are “psycho free”.

    Notice that liberal moonbats never seem to have anything relevant to say in threads like this?

    No thoughts about the murdered woman.

    No concern about the trauma that the infant went through.

    No anger at such a heinious crime.

    Instead it’s either insipid and nonsensical political blathering (see McClelland) or supposedly “clever” little slogans. (see actus)

    It appears that in their warped little minds that the only crime committed was the baby wasn’t murdered.

    Given the content of their posts and the liberal hunger for infanticide er, abortion on demand, it’s hard to conclude otherwise.

  154. 154
    Colombian Fucknugget growls and barks:

    *Fucktard at IP 200.118.109.122 out of Santafe’ de Bogota, Colombia has been banned.—The Management?*

  155. 155
    Ernest Brown growls and barks:

    Deterrance is a bad argument for the death penalty, since they had quick executions for hundreds of crimes in Merry Olde England, and it didn’t stop crime:

    BENJAMIN RENSHAW

    Executed, after an Abortive Attempt, at Nottingham,
    29th of August, 1812, for setting fire to a Haystack

    THIS man was convicted on the clearest evidence of the wicked, wasteful crime of burning the hay of Mr Charles Stanton — and, in aggravation of such business, soon afterwards, of wantonly slaughtering a ram, the property of Mr Isaac Dodsley, both of the town of Mansfield, in the county of Nottinghamshire. He was sentenced to death, and left by the judge for execution.
    About eleven o’clock he was taken from the prison and placed in a cart, accompanied by the executioner and a respectable gentleman who had daily visited him during his condemnation. The concourse of spectators was unusually great, to witness the awful catastrophe. When arrived at
    the fatal tree, and some time had been spent in singing and prayer, Renshaw himself prayed with an audible voice, and afterwards addressed the multitude for the space of fifteen or twenty minutes, exhorting them, and especially youth, to
    avoid evil company; and this he did in a manner which excited the astonishment of every beholder. Such fortitude, unshaken confidence and composure were scarcely ever before witnessed, expressing at the same time, as he had done before, his assurance of the mercy of God. After he was turned off, the noose of the rope moved under his chin, and it was deemed proper to put him into the cart, that the rope might be adjusted afresh, after which he was turned off again. This circumstance occasioned a considerable sensation among the spectators, who generally expressed their abhorrence of the executioner, to whose carelessness they attributed the accident. After hanging the usual time, his body was given to his friends for interment at Mansfield.

    The Complete Newgate Calendar

    Depraved indifference to life merits capital punishment on its own merits.

  156. 156
    LC Denita TwoDragons, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    Actus, it makes us feel much more secure in our pleasant sanity, knowing all the sick and twisted insanity is being bogarted by the pathetic subhumans like yourself.

    –TwoDragons

  157. 157
    LC Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    I FOUND ME A TROLL!!!

    You know this dumb murdering bitch voted for Bush. Hey, if our president is allowed to murder our own troops, then I guess she thought she could just follow along.

    Posted by: actus on December 18, 2004 07:47 PM

    Hey, I’m a troop, and my President hasn’t murdered me yet. Should I file a grievance?

  158. 158
    LC Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    Hey, Ernest, thank you for completely proving my earlier point about the Eighth Amendment. In America (which was obviously free at the time) that wouldn’t have happened.

  159. 159
    Elephant Man growls and barks:

    You now this dumb murdering bitch voted for Bush. Hey, if our president is allowed to murder our own troops, then I guess she thought she could just follow along.

    With that kind of logic, no wonder the democrats keep losing elections.

  160. 160
    LC Brendan growls and barks:

    Mental illness is NOT a defense that negates the death penalty. In fact, I could easily argue that mentally ill people who commit capital crimes should be given the death penalty, just to prevent them from doing it again.

    Before anyone lets me have it with a 20mm howitzer, may I ask a question?

    Why is it not considered a valid defence re mental illness or disability? If they don’t know the severity of their crime (psychosis, i.e nmo attachment to reality) then can they be truly be held responsible for their crime?

    Held life in a hospital under maximum securty, yes, treatment, yes agreed..then transfer to a max security prison once they are sane and able to comprehend.

    But hypothetically, a killer with the mental age of ten for example…where do we draw the line?

    Flame me if you like but to my mind it’s a valid question..and an ethical dilemma.

    Please, before you let me have it, remember this is me asking, and it’s a valid, reasoned issue.

    If they are not mentally able or fit to stand trial..what then?

    Thanks for hearing me out.

    *gets flameproof suit and helmet*

  161. 161
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Brendan,

    It’s really simple. If someone doesn’t know right from wrong due to a “mental illness” at the time of their crime, how do we know they won’t have the same problem later?!

    Besides, it could very easily be argued that ALL murders are committed by the “mentally ill”, since every society has laws against it. Only a “mentally ill” person could commit one of the most heinous crimes that humans have thought of: taking of another human life.

    Have you noticed that there aren’t a lot of homicides amongst animals? Killing of one’s own species is rather rare in the natural world, for simple survival reasons. So, any person who kills another human, for no LEGAL reason, is “mentally ill”, by definition. So, by the “mentally ill” defense, NO murderer should be punished, since it is obvious that they are sick.

    We shoot rabid dogs, don’t we?

  162. 162
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Besides, Brendan, I’d never flame you.

    You’re my favorite Kiwi!
    ;-)

  163. 163
    LC Joseph Dromedary growls and barks:

    Ernest Brown

    There are many examples of how the death penalty deters murder, most haven’t even been listed on this thread. But here is an example of how the use of consistent executions have dramatically improved certain societies.

    In the 1800s, in English occupied India, there was one of the worst gangs of murdering thieves the world has ever known, the Indian hoodlum
    band known as the Thuggees. Through the course of their existence, dating back to the 1550s, the Thuggees were credited with murdering more
    than 2,000,000 people, mostly wealthy travelers. The killer secret society plagued India for more than 350 years. The Thuggees traveled in gangs, sometimes disguised as poor beggars or religious mendicants.
    Sometimes they wore the garb of rich merchants to get closer to unsuspecting victims. One of their principles was never to spill blood, so they always strangled their victims. Each member was required to kill at least once a year in order to maintain membership in the cult. But they killed in the name of religion. The deaths were conceived of as human sacrifices to Kali, the bloodthirsty Hindustani goddess of destruction. It came to pass that the Thuggees began to kill using pickaxes and knives. According to legend, the Thuggees believed that Kali devoured the bodies of their victims. The story goes that once a member of the society hid behind a tree in order to spy on the goddess.
    The angry goddess punished the Thuggees by making them bury their victims from then on.

    The ruling British government worked very hard to stop the Thuggee religion and its murderous practices. Between 1829 and 1848, the British
    managed to suppress the Thuggees by means of mass arrests and speedy executions. Indeed, rows and rows of Thuggees were left hanging from the
    gallows along the roads by the dozens. This not only established a zero recidivism rate, but it also greatly discouraged new membership into the
    cult. The most lethal practitioner of the cult of Thuggee was Buhram. At his trial it was established that he had murdered 931 people between 1790 and 1840. All had been strangled with his waistcloth. Burham was executed in 1840. Appropriately enough, he was hanged until he
    strangled. In 1882, the British government deemed the problem solved with the hanging death of the last known Thuggee. Good fucking riddance.

    Them were the good ol’ days when ya didn’t fuck with the Brigade of Guards.
    I guess the Brits themselves were made of sterner stuff than the colonials because it sured seemed to deter the Thugees!

  164. 164
    LC Brendan growls and barks:

    It’s really simple. If someone doesn’t know right from wrong due to a “mental illness” at the time of their crime, how do we know they won’t have the same problem later?

    We don’t..which is why I mentioned the life in max security option. Australia doesn’t have the death penalty..and we have had some sickening crimes.

    One was a woman named Anita Cobby.,.the scum who did had their papers stamped “never to be released”, they will leave prison feet first in a pine box.

    Only a “mentally ill” person could commit one of the most heinous crimes that humans have thought of: taking of another human life.

    A paranoid schizophrenic may have no understanding of reality whatsoever.

    Mental illness is different from physical illness in that the disease manifests itself by behaviour not by physical symptoms(rashes etc).

    If he/she commits a murder, are they mentally able to understand the scope of their deeds at trial?

    I don’t know the answer myself…the death penalty has been discussed here more than once but as yet remains off the table.

    We do shoot rabid dogs…but the dog has rabies, which is curable.

    If the dog can be caught and cured it’s no longer a danger….like I said I don’t have all the answers…just questions.:(

  165. 165
    LC Brendan growls and barks:

    And thank you for the reasoned answers, Devildog, that issue is one of the reasons the death penalty here has not been re enacted….the usual penalty is life (and here life means LIFE…one gang rapist got 55 years)in prison and no hope of parole.

  166. 166
    LC the Humble Devildog growls and barks:

    Brendan,

    We do shoot rabid dogs…but the dog has rabies, which is curable.

    Um, rabies isn’t terribly curable. Here in CheeseLand, we just had a teenage girl recover from rabies…making her about the third person IN HISTORY to recover from rabies. So, rabid dogs are shot, because they are a danger, and can’t be cured.

    If he/she commits a murder, are they mentally able to understand the scope of their deeds at trial?

    Again, the death penalty isn’t a rehabilitation, it’s a punishment. Just because someone doesn’t know right from wrong does NOT mean they shouldn’t be punished for their crimes.

    If a child breaks a lamp, they get punished, right? They certainly aren’t rewarded, as that would only cause MORE lamp-breaking. No, they are punished to provide a negative reinforcement to lamp-breaking. Whether or not they knew that breaking the lamp was wrong is completely irrelevant. The crime was committed, the penalty is enforced.

    Also, someone who doesn’t know right from wrong will NEVER know the difference. If they have managed to reach adulthood without an INKLING that killing people isn’t a good idea, they will never learn it. They may be able to mouth the words, and jump through the hoops, but, they won’t actually understand it. So, the “rabid dog” treatment could come into effect. Someone who doesn’t know right from wrong is NOT absolved of their guilt because of ignorance.

    “Ignorance of the law is no excuse” Just about every judge in every courtroom.

    To give you an example from history, in feudal Japan, arsonists were not only killed, so was their entire family. Arson was a crime WORSE than murder to the Japanese, since all of their cities were made of paper and wood. So, the Japanese would kill a person who was guilty of arson, to prevent them from doing it again. The family was killed for raising such a monster. Harsh? You bet. Do I agree with it? No, but I certainly understand their rationale. Just because someone was fascinated with fire, they could jeopardize entire cities, even though they may have had no clue it was wrong.

    If someone is so mentally ill that they don’t know murder is bad, no amount of treatment will cure them. All they will do is jump through the hoops, and lie convincingly to people who are programmed to believe those lies, and then, who knows? Maybe they get smarter, and learn to kill without getting caught, maybe they decide the risks aren’t worth it, and never do it again. But, I assure you, if they were put to death (for committing a capital crime…), they will NOT EVER commit that crime again.

    The detterence effect of the death penalty is a perk, not the goal. The death penalty is the ultimate PUNISHMENT, for the ultimate crime(s).

  167. 167
    kschlenker growls and barks:

    LC Brendan–
    In Beaumont, Texas, Kenneth Pierott who had earlier killed his sister while insane killed his girlfriend’s six year old son by putting him in an unlit stove.

    The first time, he only spent four months in a hospital before he was released, though he bashed his sister’s head in with a dumbbell. Very little monitoring goes on after they are released (not cured; truly crazy people can’t be cured) because of “civil liberty” laws that went into effect under Jimmy Carter in the ’70s. Can’t keep crazy people locked up, even if it is for their own good or even if they quit taking their meds.

    Being crazy shouldn’t mean that a person never has to pay the cost of their crimes. It is simply too expensive to expect the rest of us to take up the slack.

  168. 168
    Tsuki Hoseki growls and barks:

    As Humble Devildog said, it could be argued that all murderers are insane, since by the definitions most people use, sane people do not commit murder.

    Our courts do not define the word “insanity” so broadly, though. Our courts define “insanity” as a mental disorder or malfunction great enough to judge a person not legally responsible for their own actions.

    That is a better definition, and it is far stricter than is often believed. Tsuki cannot verify the statistic, but she has read that only 2% of all people accused in capital murder cases even attempt an “insanity defense,” and 80% of those that attempt it fail.

    That’s slightly reassuring; but the problem is that any of them succeed — because having been found to be “insane,” that person will never be punished at all.

    Let’s say this Lisa Montgomery woman tries an “insanity defense” (an assumption on which Tsuki would bet money). It will probably go something like, “Oh, poor Lisa lost her own baby, and she was so depressed, no, make that manic-depressive, and um, she had an ‘irresistable impulse,’ and a chemical imbalance, or some other psycho-babble, so she’s not responsible for her own actions.”

    Let’s say she succeeds. The Court says, “Okay, you’ve really impressed us with all that technical jargon. Send her to the looney bin.”

    So Lisa goes to the looney bin. There, a bunch of doctors psychiatrists will study Lisa and attempt to cure whatever specific looneyness they decided she had. At some point, they’ll decide they’ve done so; and then they’ll let her go.

    Bobbie Jo Stinnett will still be dead. Her husband will have nothing but memories of his wife; and that baby girl will never even have that much, will never even know her own mother.

    But the woman who murdered Bobbie Jo and cut her open to steal her baby will be walking around, breathing.

    That thought offends Tsuki. It is sickening to think that it could happen; but that sort of thing does happen, and murderous animals are let back into society.

    There are only two ways to solve this:

    1) Abolish the “insanity defense” entirely.

    2) Establish a “Guilty but Mentally Ill” alternative. The guilty party is taken to a mental facility for treatment; but when they are judged to be “cured,” they are then given the punishment merited by their crime.

    Tsuki prefers the former solution, but might be willing to settle for the latter. She is not willing to settle for allowing Lisa Montgomery to ever walk free again, just because her head wasn’t wired right.

  169. 169
    LC Brendan growls and barks:

    Tsuki

    I bow to your kind, and very thorough answer..and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    Tsuki prefers the former solution, but might be willing to settle for the latter. She is not willing to settle for allowing Lisa Montgomery to ever walk free again, just because her head wasn’t wired right.

    Agreed.

    Arigato, Tsuki-san.

  170. 170
    Fraydog growls and barks:

    This is one of those times that you wish street justice was enacted. You know, kind of like the idiot who tries to rob a jeweler and gets shot dead by an Uzi-bearing clerk on the spot.

    No red tape then, just dead!

  171. 171
    actus growls and barks:

    You now this dumb murdering bitch voted for Bush. Hey, if our president is allowed to murder our own troops, then I guess she thought she could just follow along.

    With that kind of logic, no wonder the democrats keep losing elections.
    Posted by Elephant Man at December 18, 2004 08:09 PM

    Boy one guy pottymouths and fakes my login info and everybody is in just a hurry to love it no?

  172. 172
    B.C., Imperial Torturer? growls and barks:

    actus, the fucktard who spoofed you will be banned, ASAP.

  173. 173
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    First off, may I offer kudos to all the peace officers ooficers and others involvedin this case that the BABY was found alive and returned to her father.

    My sincere condolences to him on the loss of his wife and my prayers for him, his family, and most especially the little girl.

    As for the death penalty as a deterrent. Doesn’t matter. As Devildog has so eloquently stated, it’s justice, it’s punishment. Deterrent doesn’t matter a whit a beans. And again with the utmost in reverence to Devildogs prose on the Biblical demand for the death penalty, anything less for these crimes is an afront to God.

    As to life in prison being more of a punishment, that death is to lenient. Imagine yourself on that day, knowing that there is a set amount of time left before you die. Imagine as you are strapped in, as the needle/electrodes are attached. Imagine knowing, even for the briefest moment, the terror your victim faced. Now imagine knowing that even though you are in prison, you’ll still wake up and breathe fresh a breath the next day. Then tell me what the worst punishment is.

    A human life is the most precious of commodoties. It is a Godgiven blessing and each life is sacred. For society to say that a person who murders another shall not forfiet his own life is to grossly demean the life of the victim. Which life matters more to us?

    After all due safeguards to ensure that the condemned is in fact guilty, capital punishment should be carried out post haste with the victims family in attendance.

  174. 174
    LC 0311 crunchie growls and barks:

    One last though before bed reference the insanity defense.

    IMHO the only insanity defense that is even remotely relevant would be the old “crime of passion” argument, a sudden mental shock so great to the system that normal, rational thought ceases. Such as a man coming home and finding his wife in bed with another man. In that split second of rage and pain, murder could be, if not accepted, at least understood.

    If my failing memory serves me correctly, people used to be aquitted in such cases by juries that actually thought about how they would react in a situation like that.

  175. 175
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    OK, I change my whimpy stance on not killing because I couldn’t handle that decision in my hands to: Wake the sum bitch up every day at 6AM and walk them to the ‘lectric chair, pull the handle and say ‘Psych !!’ … Do that for a few months, and never let ‘em know which day the juice will actually flow…..Surely a torture as bad or worse than death, huh?
    ( Obviously the last time, the juice would be cranked up to full blast…)
    Nothing like a good mental torture for scum like that BEFORE the deed is actually done…make THEM the victim this time…

  176. 176

    Wake the sum bitch up every day at 6AM and walk them to the ‘lectric chair, pull the handle and say ‘Psych !!’ … Do that for a few months, and never let ‘em know which day the juice will actually flow…..Surely a torture as bad or worse than death, huh?

    The only thing that would make it better is to crank just a LITTLE juice thru it every so often, to really scare the shit out of ‘em.

  177. 177

    HDD:

    If someone is so mentally ill that they don’t know murder is bad, no amount of treatment will cure them. All they will do is jump through the hoops, and lie convincingly to people who are programmed to believe those lies, and then, who knows? Maybe they get smarter, and learn to kill without getting caught, maybe they decide the risks aren’t worth it, and never do it again. But, I assure you, if they were put to death (for committing a capital crime…), they will NOT EVER commit that crime again.

    The detterence effect of the death penalty is a perk, not the goal. The death penalty is the ultimate PUNISHMENT, for the ultimate crime(s).

    Hey… ask the Chinese. For all the opression, they seem to have everything under control.

    In fact, I prefer CP to be the ultimate deterrant if it were broadcast on prime time. Yes… it is barbaric, and yes… Amnesty International would probably be on our everyone’s arse over it, but what the Hell – China does that in soccer stadiums everywhere and she still gets trade contracts up the ying-yang.

    Anyways… looking from the anti-CP POV, I’m quite sure there are some people who do heinous murders so they could get the DP – call that “suicide by State”. Would that constute mental illness? Just wondering.

    And so… there you go.

  178. 178
    pbird growls and barks:

    Oh, you guys! Torturing this unhuman would accomplish nothing. Her suffering is pointless. She should just be unmade as soon as legally possible, quietly and without fanfare. Enough harm has been done by her. No more.

  179. 179
    LC Denita TwoDragons, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    Amen, pbird–our entertaining thoughts of her painful and slow death sets us on the same path. She should be taken out of this world as quickly as possible, so that she judged by Someone More Qualified as to the form of her eternal punishment. To torture her ourselves for love of vengeance–even if it’s just in the theater of our own minds–goes against everything we are supposed to stand for!

    I’ll admit, I’m tempted to join in at times, myself–hey, I’m only human, and when it coems to horrendous acts like the one Lisa Montgomery inflicted upon Bobbie-Jo Stinnet and her family, that temptation is VERY strong indeed!–but if you cave into that for too long, it either eats you up inside or you find yourself acting upon it. Neither of which is healthy in the slightest, both physically AND spiritually…

    –TwoDragons

  180. 180
    hobie growls and barks:

    If there is proven guilt, without a doubt, they should be swiftly put to death. Public hanging?

  181. 181
    LC ms heather, G.L.O.R. growls and barks:

    A simple and expedient lynching will do.

  182. 182
    LC Army NCO Guy growls and barks:

    That’s a good point, pbird.

  183. 183
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    pbird-

    Torturing this unhuman would accomplish nothing. Her suffering is pointless. She should just be unmade as soon as legally possible, quietly and without fanfare.

    Check out my joking yet serious post above… I disagree with you. Mental anguish over months or years could easily be worse than death..at least I think so. You say ‘her suffering is pointless’..I disagree again, sorry. Drag it on for quite sometime, and if we’re lucky, I really believe it would end in her suicide…then everyone is happy…
    ( Sounds a bit goofy, I know, but for a crime like her’s there’d be no better punishment than (pardon my french), a major, drawn out mind fuck..)

  184. 184
    pbird growls and barks:

    Well, LC#2112, I guess all I meant was that nothing we do to her except for stopping her is positive in any way. I understand that (I guess) you are a young man? Forgive me if I am wrong. Part of the way the world works is that young men will go to war and try to right wrongs. God bless you.
    I feel that she continues to harm her victims when her disposal is a big deal.

  185. 185
    LC#2112 growls and barks:

    pbird-
    thanks for thinking 38 is young ! :)
    Have a good day!
    -and I would agree that her quick non-existence would be a good thing…but I was feeling vengeful when I posted, and a long suffering sounded real damned good..a quick death just didn’t seem like penalty enough….
    So I guess we agree, just with different words..(?!)

  186. 186

    Okay, we can compromise: put her in the chair and then zap her thirty of forty times with wildly varying amounts of juice just to make her work up a good sweat and then crank it up to crispy critter and watch her sizzle. Fair enough?

    Not sure if I’m joking or not, to be frank … I keep thinking of the horror that woman went thru, dying with the knowledge that her baby had been cut out of her and may very well be dead or enduring God knows what. I cannot fathom the torture she suffered, not knowing. Bad enough to know you’re dying but like that

  187. 187
    LC Jon , Imperial Hunter growls and barks:

    ActUpYourAss:

    “Ah. Missouri. The Heartland”

    Damned right, you immorally unequivalent son of a bitch!

    We have the death penalty here in this good land of Missouri, and the Heart for the suffering of the victim to use it. And we (now) have a Governor who has the moral sense to carry out the inevitable verdict.

    The bitchscum is Potosi bound, as good as dead already.

    And Salvage, you’re still an idiot. Being able to write a gramatically correct sentence doesn’t mean you’re smart and quoting thoughts you cribbed from the propagandists you adhere to doesn’t make you an original thinker. You might really impress the incoherent morons at DU though. Run along now and baffle them with your BULLSHIT!

    Oh, and EABAD.

  188. 188
    LC crunchie JR growls and barks:

    Salvage

    Oh and Jesus, I wonder how He’d feel about the death penalty?

    1 God said thou shalt not kill
    2 God said the punisment for sin is death
    3 God wiped out the population of two entire cities for their immorality once, he has no problem punishing evil with death. Before you use my God in your arguments get a fucking clue what your talking about.

    (ps) sorry this was posted so late

  189. 189
    ubu growls and barks:

    Personally, I’m all for waiving the “cruel and unusual punishment” clause, just this once.

  190. 190

    Sire! I do believe Texas Holdem has just placed an advertisement on your site! The going rate is $250 per ad placement, I’d send him a bill!


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